LED ZEPPELIN - ESSENTIAL READING ON THE NET

[JAG]

Perusing this section of the board, I laugh at the pompous attitude at of some "experts" who give post trivia/detail with acknowledgement of their sources.

Ever wonder some "experts" quickly access Led Zeppelin cut-and-paste trivia? Are you amazed they know so much? Wish you could have the same talent of in second pulling up what Jimmy said or what song is influenced by what artists or where was a certain piece of music recorded. Well here's your answer on all sort of weird and wacky stuff ...

Kicking around and compled at the dawn of the internet's wide popularity the IFMTL (Led Zeppelin: In-Frequently Murmured Trivia List) back in the mid-90s. While parts may be dated, this collection is priceless...

http://www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/IFMTL-1.html

1 The Music

1.1 Pink Carnations, Pickup Trucks And Other Lifts

1.2 Hats Off To Strange Song Titles

1.3 What About The Studio Chatter? Nah, leave it, yeah.

1.4 Will Someone Answer That Phone!

1.5 Intuitive Interpretations

1.6 Miscellaneous Song Trivia

1.7 Record Store Rock

1.8 Favourite Songs, Albums

http://www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/IFMTL-2.html

2 The Band

2.1 The Golden God : Robert Plant

2.2 The Sorceror's Apprentice : Jimmy Page

2.3 The Omnipresent Force : John Paul Jones

2.4 The Engine Room : John Bonham

http://www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/IFMTL-3.html

3 Other Trivial Pursuits

3.01 The Trivia Remains The Same

3.02 Electric Green Tennis Courts And Other Cover Art

3.03 Plantations And Other Onstage Musings

3.04 Trivia Of Illegitimate Origin

3.05 Meet The Press

3.06 Zeppelin Miscellania

3.07 Shaking The Tree

3.08 Coverdale/Plant

3.09 Like Father Like Son

3.10 The Led And How To Get It Out

3.11 Jimmy And The Beast

3.12 Zeppelin Mediawatch

3.13 Breaking Up Is Hard To Do

3.14 Pezed Pellni Anagrams

3.15 Nevaeh Ot yawriatS

[Riverside Bluesman]

Perusing this section of the board, I laugh at the pompous attitude at of some "experts" who give post trivia/detail with acknowledgement of their sources.

Amen. You and me both, brother.

So that's where they all get their inside info from ? Well, that certainly explains a great deal to me. From now on I will no longer get that twinge of Zep-trivia envy that I generally feel when I read stuff on this site.

I like music 1.4 " Will someone answer that phone " !

[Cactus]

Why is it that when I read this all I can hear is that Infomercial voice.....?

Some people around here are able to retain information in their brain, not just cut and paste from some other website. Maybe that's why they don't quote sources

[JAG]

Why is it that when I read this all I can hear is that Infomercial voice.....?

It's from all those years working for K-Tel. You probably head my voice here ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0O9_HEYcMr8

Some people around here are able to retain information in their brain, not just cut and paste from some other website. Maybe that's why they don't quote sources

There people who've being fortunate to have seen the band in real life. I was not around for it. So it a great pleasure to live vicariously through the experience of members here who did at a Zeppelin concert, had some association, or even a meaningful encounter to write about I personally find the most interesting. And, it is great hear from people who genuinely know about live recordings.

But, rehash and retelling of Zep stories in almost first-person terms by members who were not around is laughable.

Of course we are able to retain and recall information whether it trivial or valuable. And, equally we able to use the "text search" function on the software we use. So, you can't convince me say that someone who gives a word-for-word paragraph-long quote from Jimmy Page from the early 70s is recounting this for a personal meeting with the man. What ever happened to the concept of citing references as we were taught to do in school?

Bottomline to my yapping, given that there are a lot of newer fans from the heightened awareness of the band in recent times, it is worth reading IFMTL for those who are want to know more once they've gotten past the wikipedia level.

Cheers.

[solar]

Aside from your post being littered with grammatical errors, JAG, there are many who cite sources here. I keep Dave Lewis' Concert File and Robert Godwin's Collectors Editions next to my desk at all times. When I need to, I cite sources. Oftentimes, with the amount of books I've read, it becomes second nature and is not needed.

Y'know, some people still READ books and don't get all their info from the 'net...a lot of information which is illegally copied from said reference material in the first place. And quite often not properly cited, either.

Edited January 10, 2008 by solar

[tyedye]

Who really cares?

Doesn't most everybody get their info about Zep second hand?

So what if some people get there info from the net?

Some people do actually get their infomation from other sources like books and magazines, and some people, some very lucky people, have personal encounters.

[JAG]

Aside from your post being littered with grammatical errors, JAG, there are many who cite sources here. I keep Dave Lewis' Concert File and Robert Godwin's Collectors Editions next to my desk at all times. When I need to, I cite sources. Oftentimes, with the amount of books I've read, it becomes second nature and is not needed.

Y'know, some people still READ books and don't get all their info from the 'net...a lot of information which is illegally copied from said reference material in the first place. And quite often not properly cited, either.

And excuse my grammatical errors, there probably more just like you have mistakes in this post. Like foot pedal squeaks and false takes, I am leaving my hastily-written post uncorrected.

Don't be offended my friend. What I am talking about some "experts" who get their trivia (or, trivial) facts readily available on other places on the Net. And in fact they're straight out cut-and-paste jobs I've seen.

Rather than sharing the knowledge, I guess they get a sense of empowerment or entitlement -- something I suppose a tape-hoarder feels he has.

Big friggin deal I say! Share the wealth. Share the sources! This way everyone can be entertained/enlightened.

With a big spotlight on Zeppelin in recent times there are lots of newcomers to the music who'd want to know more the band. Why not let them educate themselves at bit more reading the information off places like wikipedia and IFMTL? It it will also tidy this place up through reduction of redudant threads that get created.

[bTW: Those are top-notch books when it comes to sorting out tour dates providing oodles of wealth and insight to live recordings. Amongst the tons of Zep stuff in 25 years of collecting, I have all the various editions and I, too, recommend them highly for the serious fan. But they won't tell you about about you story of the old man with the load of sticks on his back on the cover of Zep IV.]

Cheers!

[JAG]

I wonder if y'all know what I'm talkin' about?

I think you do.

[Reggie29]

I wonder if y'all know what I'm talkin' about?

I think you do.

I think the question should be:

Do you know what you're talking about?

Some people know things because they have stored it in their memory and have good recall.

Others need to rely on reference material.

Both scenarios are ok.

Just because there is information available in magazines or trhe net doesn't make it accurate or correct>

[SteveAJones]

Why not let them educate themselves at bit more reading the information off places like wikipedia and IFMTL?

IFMTL is pretty accurate as it was created by a lifelong enthusiast but ANYONE can create a Wikipedia entry. I have found the best approach to be a consideration of multiple sources combined with personal experience and the inputs of credible collaborators.

Edited March 3, 2008 by SteveAJones

[deluxe]

But, rehash and retelling of Zep stories in almost first-person terms by members who were not around is laughable.

I have only been around for a little while but have noticed that also.

It's nice to hear about things you never knew about, but really, does it matter what order Jimmy Page ate a peanut butter sandwich then took a dump on say September 14, 1980. Did he eat first then take a shit? Oh wait, sources say he bought the bread at noon and he is known to shit first thing in the morning!!!!

I'm being faceceous, but you get the point.

Otherwise everything is pretty cool (I wonder if someone will tell me what he did Sept.14, 1980

Edited March 5, 2008 by deluxe

[deluxe]

I read through the link provided and pretty much knew all that stuff. Some of it seems a bit suspect as well.

Interesting that Dear Mr.Fantasy was brought up though with Page rumoured to have played on it. Like I mentioned in another thread, the solo style is quintessential Page.

It doesnt matter who denies it, until it's proven otherwise, I will put good money saying it's Page.

[Cactus]

I have only been around for a little while but have noticed that also.

It's nice to hear about things you never knew about, but really, does it matter what order Jimmy Page ate a peanut butter sandwich then took a dump on say September 14, 1980. Did he eat first then take a shit? Oh wait, sources say he bought the bread at noon and he is known to shit first thing in the morning!!!!

I'm being faceceous, but you get the point.

Otherwise everything is pretty cool (I wonder if someone will tell me what he did Sept.14, 1980

The whole point of facts is that they are facts - not someone's interpretation of what went on, but fact. From fact you draw opinion. If you aren't interested in those details then fine, but some people might be, and are interested in drawing their own conclusions from fact.

[Pb Derigable]

I have the whole thing printed. I printed one day after class in high school so know one would find out i used a 100 sheets of paper. I also included a couple other info tibets that added to the amount of trees killed.

[deluxe]

The whole point of facts is that they are facts - not someone's interpretation of what went on, but fact. From fact you draw opinion. If you aren't interested in those details then fine, but some people might be, and are interested in drawing their own conclusions from fact.

OK then, but who determines what is fact or not? In another thread I brought up the fact that somewhere I read Page once considered replacing Plant after the first tour. I'm still looking for the article. After collecting Zep memorabilia for 30+ years, some stuff (exact interviews) is hard to find. But most people if all people never heard about that.

So is it fact? Let me go one further

The reason I asked that question was because, being new here I was fishing to see what and how much the experts here know, or how much is just the same old same old(as in the link to info in this post)

Obviously there are people here with first hand knowledge. That's great. I'm sure their facts are solid.

I worked with a guy named Richard many years ago who had incredible stories about not only Zeppelin, but moreso of the Who. He was one of Keith Moon's childhood friends and later drinking buddies.

So Richard would go on and on and me and the rest of us would just be like ,"yeah right, like you knew these guys."

One day Richard invited a few us to his house and low and behold guess what? He had scrapebooks(plural) full of pictures and 8mm reels of him and Moon, Bonham, the rest of the members of the Who, Zeppelin and all kinds of other celebrities. These weren't your typical meet a rock star backstage, smile and have your picture taken. All kinds, him playing soccer(football), sitting down eating dinner with various people, private house parties etc. His stories and photos I have never seen in print anywhere.

Which takes me back to the story about Page thinking of replacing Plant. The way Richard told the story was that he, Moon, Bonham and someone else( can't recall the name) were sitting in a pub drinking somewhere in England about 1969. The discussion came up regarding a dust up between Page and Plant, and that Page questioned the suitability of Plant in the band. I can remember distinctly that Richard said Bonham was quite agitated and said something to the effect that, "if Bobby goes, then bloody hell so do I."

So whether or not this interpretation is fact or not, I believe it is, only because of Richard's proof of having been there. I really can't see how someone questions the facts and were not privy to private conversations or that persons interpretation of private conversation are not fact. Just because the average Joe wasn't there doesn't mean it isn't fact. And for all I know it may not be fact either. I wasn't there to give my factual interpretation.

And I am interested in details, but details that reflect upon history, not for instance conversations of if a song were 7:24 and not 7:09. Really, if it boils down to that, it's time to shut the computer off.

[SteveAJones]

I wonder if someone will tell me what he did Sept.14, 1980

Sorry, no confirmed public appearance on this date.

Three between Sep 18-20 1980.

[SteveAJones]

OK then, but who determines what is fact or not? In another thread I brought up the fact that somewhere I read Page once considered replacing Plant after the first tour. I'm still looking for the article.

So is it fact?

It may become accepted by others as fact when you can locate and cite the specific article. Otherwise, what if your recollection is wrong? What if upon finding the article you come to realize you took it out of context or misunderstood? Personally, I think

Page & Plant having an argument and saying things in the heat of the moment does

not equate to Jimmy Page once considered replacing Plant after the first tour. We

could also get into how do you define "first tour" but why beat a dead horse...

IMHO, some facts speak for themselves when there is sufficient substantiation and

corroboration beyond a reasonable doubt. For example, if you have a ticket stub it

may not necessarily reflect the actual date the concert was held. If you have the

stub and multiple newspaper reviews of the show you have just corroborated the

date on the stub is the date the actual event was held beyond a reasonable doubt.

Just my opinon. Everyone's got one and views may vary.

[deluxe]

It may become accepted by others as fact when you can locate and cite the specific article. Otherwise, what if your recollection is wrong? What if upon finding the article you come to realize you took it out of context or misunderstood? Personally, I think

Page & Plant having an argument and saying things in the heat of the moment does

not equate to Jimmy Page once considered replacing Plant after the first tour. We

could also get into how do you define "first tour" but why beat a dead horse...

IMHO, some facts speak for themselves when there is sufficient substantiation and

corroboration beyond a reasonable doubt. For example, if you have a ticket stub it

may not necessarily reflect the actual date the concert was held. If you have the

stub and multiple newspaper reviews of the show you have just corroborated the

date on the stub is the date the actual event was held beyond a reasonable doubt.

Just my opinon. Everyone's got one and views may vary.

Absolutely agree.

And your post regarding 3 sightings between the 18th and 20th cracked me up whether it was intended on being funny or not.

[Zeppelin0731]

My printer is going crazy right now. haha

Is there any good zep books out there? I know theres a few like Hammer of the Gods, but is there a Jimmy Page Biography or Behind the Music or something?

[SteveAJones]

Absolutely agree.

And your post regarding 3 sightings between the 18th and 20th cracked me up whether it was intended on being funny or not.

No joke, tis true:

Sep 15-20 1980 London, England Royal Albert Hall Kensington Gore

Jimmy used his private box to attend one of Frank Sinatra's concerts

Sep 18 1980 Fulham, London, England Swan Song Records 484 Kings Road

Jimmy met with Benji LeFevre and sanctioned a mock up model of a new lighting rig and stage set up for the upcoming North American tour.

Sep 20 1980 "Windsor", England Old Mill House (actual address withheld from this post)

Birthday party for Charlotte Martin

If anyone thinks IFMTL, as good as it is, reveals any of this your sadly mistaken.

Edited March 6, 2008 by SteveAJones