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audioservant

Ever tried to sound like Zeppelin...

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...at least like "similar". After I saw and especially heard the 2007 Reunion version Black Dog on TV

I'm amazed by the 'fat' guitarsound...

I'm just wondering if there are a few guitar players around here, who try to follow the Zeppelin sound and I'm interested in how you're trying to get it (meaning Equipment, Amp Settings and so on...)

I hope this is worth a discussion!

Cheers

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Well, I can respond! :lol!

Let's see. Which Zeppelin am I recalling? My Telecaster through a Fulltone Soul Bender (a hand-wired recreation of Jimmy's Sola Sound Tone Bender) through a small amp? Well there's the first album! :lol:!

Marshall. Minimal distortion. A Les Paul. A quick echo just to give it some room. Don't confuse the fuzztone from the studio albums with the live sound! Once Jimmy moved from the Telecaster to the Les Paul, the fuzzbox was gone. It's about SUSTAIN! Les Paul+Marshall. A little echo to give it depth. That's it! KT-88 tubes to pump the Marshalls up for big arenas. NO DISTORTION!!! Jimmy's clean! Totally lost among the hairspray gods of the metal 80s. Jimmy could take that natural crunch down to silky, subtle tones with his volume knob alone. NO PREAMPS! Pure output tube saturation. That's the key!

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Well, I can respond! :lol!

Let's see. Which Zeppelin am I recalling? My Telecaster through a Fulltone Soul Bender (a hand-wired recreation of Jimmy's Sola Sound Tone Bender) through a small amp? Well there's the first album! :lol:!

Marshall. Minimal distortion. A Les Paul. A quick echo just to give it some room. Don't confuse the fuzztone from the studio albums with the live sound! Once Jimmy moved from the Telecaster to the Les Paul, the fuzzbox was gone. It's about SUSTAIN! Les Paul+Marshall. A little echo to give it depth. That's it! KT-88 tubes to pump the Marshalls up for big arenas. NO DISTORTION!!! Jimmy's clean! Totally lost among the hairspray gods of the metal 80s. Jimmy could take that natural crunch down to silky, subtle tones with his volume knob alone. NO PREAMPS! Pure output tube saturation. That's the key!

Good advice -- Jimmy's tone that he is most famous for (TSRTS movie tone) is completely an overdrivern 1959 slp and that's it. There are many different ways to acheive this tone and proabably hundereds of different combinations of guitars, pedals, and amps -- none are wrong and if it works it works. However the best would be if you have page's les paul and play it straight through a kranked 1959 slp. Or any Vintage plexi for that matter.

However, I think that Jimmy used the Tonebender fuzz thru 1970. Listen to Royal Albert Hall -- that is no doubt a fuzz with the attack tunred down and with modified midrange boost. And he used the fuzz quite often in the studio thru the remainder of Zeppelin. To hit this tone, by best suggestion is one of two pedals -- a D*A*M MKII or a BYOC Tonebender MKII. the DAM pedals are almost impossible to come by and even if you can find them they are insanely expensive. The BYOC is great -- I have one and its nails it perfectly. The trick is, both pedals offer the exact same transistors that were in the original Sola Sound MKII -- OC75s. Also some were made with OC81Ds. This is really the trick to the same exact fuzz tone. Not sure if the Fulltone Bender has OC75s?

Hope this helps.

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^^Good post! Kudos! I think though, that in 1970 he was using a Univox UD-50 Uni-Drive fuzztone pedal. I'll have to put on my detective cap and re-check the video. :lol:

I do believe that he employed some manner of fuzztone up till 72-73, when he had his amps modded with KT-88 tubes. That's when the venues got so large he could crank those Marshalls into the sweet spot. Mind you, he didn't run them full up all at once. He had a wet and a dry amp which were variably set between 4 and 7.

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Thanks for the information so far.

It appears to me that his "02-Tone" was different, say a kind of update version of his old set up, a mixture of blues and metal tone.

My possibilties to shape the sound are rduced to guitar rig, a Marshall MG 15 and a Marshall Jackhammer OD/Dist Pedal :D

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^^Good post! Kudos! I think though, that in 1970 he was using a Univox UD-50 Uni-Drive fuzztone pedal. I'll have to put on my detective cap and re-check the video. :lol:

I do believe that he employed some manner of fuzztone up till 72-73, when he had his amps modded with KT-88 tubes. That's when the venues got so large he could crank those Marshalls into the sweet spot. Mind you, he didn't run them full up all at once. He had a wet and a dry amp which were variably set between 4 and 7.

quite possibly -- I know that he used the uni drive sometimes. I have a picture from 1971 and he is clearly using it. I wouldnt bank too much on finding out exactly what was used at RAH --- I have paused the dvd so many times to see if I could get a clear shot of the floor but i was never able to make anything out for certain.

I can get a sound similar to Page's when I crank my amp almost all the way, but it never makes sense to do so cause its way too loud. So instead of buying an attenuator for like 300 bucks, I modded my cheap boss ds-1 and it nails the page TSRTS tone with the level down and my amp volume set just above its breakup point.

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I'm sure he had several different fuzz tone pedals, and although its well documented that the Sola Sound Tonebener MKII modded by Roger Mayer is his main unit, there is no way to really tell exactly what was being used. Here is a breif breakdown of Page's use of fuzz on album.

First album: You Shook Me, Dazed, How Many More Times

II: Whole Lotta love (riff probably used light fuzz), Heartbreaker (accompanied solo), Bring it on Home (riff)

III: Gallows Pole (solo), Tangerine (solo)

Fourth album: Black Dog (i know he used a stange setup, but it sure sounds like a tonebender for the riff), Rock and Roll (lead fills)

Houses of the Holy: No Quarter (riff and solo)

Physical Graffiti: The Rover, In the Light (riff), The Wanton Song (fills), Sick Again (solo, possibly)

Presence: Nobodys Fault

In Through the Out Door: In the Evening (solo), Fool in the Rain (solo w/ down octave)

if you guys can think of more, feel free to add

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...at least like "similar". After I saw and especially heard the 2007 Reunion version Black Dog on TV

I'm amazed by the 'fat' guitarsound...

I'm just wondering if there are a few guitar players around here, who try to follow the Zeppelin sound and I'm interested in how you're trying to get it (meaning Equipment, Amp Settings and so on...)

I hope this is worth a discussion!

Cheers

I am afraid I do no not really try to sound like anyone , I just use the sounds at my disposal to create a tone/setting that I like when playing any stuff !! So things like the solo in Good times Bad times I use a wah wah instead of the Leslie speaker Page used as I don't have one !! I am very lazy and just don't want to waste my time trying to copy others, I will try to create a 70's type sound or grunge or metal type sounds etc for certain songs !! I do however when creating my own stuff let the influences come thru, but thats more without me thinking, it just happens !!

So I guess that really hasn't helped you in your request, but thought I would say anyhow !! :)

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I think it should be mentioned that most of your sound comes from your hands. I can put on a stock Strat and get a Jimmy tone. That's not bragging, believe me! I hold the pick and everything differently if I'm playing Sabbath or Dave Gilmour. How you touch the instrument cannot be underestimated regardless of eqiupment. It doesn't matter what Jimmy plays. He always sounds like Jimmy. Worry less about your gear and more about how you play. That's where it really lay! :beer:

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I think it should be mentioned that most of your sound comes from your hands. I can put on a stock Strat and get a Jimmy tone. That's not bragging, believe me! I hold the pick and everything differently if I'm playing Sabbath or Dave Gilmour. How you touch the instrument cannot be underestimated regardless of eqiupment. It doesn't matter what Jimmy plays. He always sounds like Jimmy. Worry less about your gear and more about how you play. That's where it really lay! :beer:

agreed -- points for that one!

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I think it should be mentioned that most of your sound comes from your hands. I can put on a stock Strat and get a Jimmy tone. That's not bragging, believe me! I hold the pick and everything differently if I'm playing Sabbath or Dave Gilmour. How you touch the instrument cannot be underestimated regardless of eqiupment. It doesn't matter what Jimmy plays. He always sounds like Jimmy. Worry less about your gear and more about how you play. That's where it really lay! :beer:

I'm aware of the "tone is shaped with your fingers and it's all about feeling"- thing, but I realized that the sound influences my playing too. It's a matter of feeling more or less comfortable with the sound, sometimes a certain sound improves my solo playing, sometimes it improves the riffing...

may sound a little abstract, but that's how I think about it

So I really like trying to find the sound of my idols and see where it takes my playing to...

Edited by audioservant

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Wish I could agree totally. Wish I never sold my Les Paul. Now using my friends piece of shit Epiphone through some micky mouse fucking 10 watt instead of the marshall I had. Gave to my exs kids out of the kindness of my heart. Now I have to go out and stock up on equipment again. Hmmm, which to get first, a nicd Taylor acoustic that wont piss off the neighbors or a Les Paul which will have the cops here in no time.

I play an Epiphone Les Paul and have done so for years. Its my #1 guitar. I have modded it to cutsomize exactly what I like. If I went out and got a 59 Gibson Les Paul reissue I still wouldnt play it as much as the Epiphone. Trust me, the only difference between the Epi LPs and Gibson LPs are the pickups, headstock, and in some cases, the neck thickness. Other than that its the exact same guitar!

Also, watts on an amp mean absolutely nothing about sound. I know some 5 or 7 watt amps that sound way better than the 100 watt Marshalls made today. My next purchase is going to be a 7 watt amp. However, if the amp is not good quality, then yes the tone is probably poor. But I'm just saying that wattage means NOTHING about tone! And name on an amp means nothing too -- just because it says Marshall doesnt make it the best by any means.

Not attacking you, just trying to make you feel better about your stuff. The Epiphone Les Pauls are very good guitars an not as inferior to the real thing as most people think.

Edited by zep41

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I think it should be mentioned that most of your sound comes from your hands. I can put on a stock Strat and get a Jimmy tone. That's not bragging, believe me! I hold the pick and everything differently if I'm playing Sabbath or Dave Gilmour. How you touch the instrument cannot be underestimated regardless of eqiupment. It doesn't matter what Jimmy plays. He always sounds like Jimmy. Worry less about your gear and more about how you play. That's where it really lay! :beer:

I can vouch for that - I have heard your OTH, just excellent. I play but not that well. I have a cheap Fender knockoff and some middle of the road acoustic giutars. I mostly just play Zeppelin and then only the "hooks". But one day over my buddies house I played his Les Paul Classic threw a Marshall stack and I scared myself! And then for a split instant I thought I was Pagey jamming Black Dog! Thats how much of a difference a real Gibson Les Paul threw a real Marshalll stack makes - I never sounded like that with my Japanese Strat!

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Has anyone fooled around with amp modeling software? I've been using Guitar Rig 3 as well as Amplitube Jimi Hendrix on a Mac with Garageband (recording software) and my Strat (with EMGs) and have been able to lay down some very zepp-ish tracks. If you haven't tried this approach, it really is a lot of fun and the unlimited number of sounds you can create is addicting.

I've been working on some songs from PG such as Custard Pie, Rover and even some of the Dazed/WLL jams from the 70s. Really a lot of fun with a pretty small learning curve.

http://www.native-instruments.com/index.ph...6edd29b19b819c2

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Recognize that any good guitarists "sound" is in their fingers and pick usage. However, for the Live 73 USA Page "tone", it doesn't hurt to have gear close to what he had. He used Marshall (EL-34 and not KT88, yet) "Metal Panel" 100 watt Super Leads. The 72/73 versions were a bit brighter than previous years; some of the capacitors were different. Also, the original bridge Pickup in his #1 Les Paul had died just before the USA tour. It was replaced with a Gibson "T-Top", which was also brighter than the PAF it replaced.

Other than that, he made extensive use of his volume and tone knobs.

For effects, he did use a wah and a tape delay/echo machine.

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...at least like "similar". After I saw and especially heard the 2007 Reunion version Black Dog on TV

I'm amazed by the 'fat' guitarsound...

I'm just wondering if there are a few guitar players around here, who try to follow the Zeppelin sound and I'm interested in how you're trying to get it (meaning Equipment, Amp Settings and so on...)

I hope this is worth a discussion!

Cheers

I think this answers many questions:

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/client.html

For years Jimmy has used Pete Cornish´s very advanced, high-end technology. The wiring, the parts - everything in a class of it´s own! And you can hear it. The sound of Black Dog almost blew my head off!!! :D

With Jimmy´s (studio) guitar sound it´s not that simple. So he used simple technology, but he did it in a very clever manner. Don´t forget he also had microphones, the tape machine and the mixing desk as tools for shaping his special sound. And he had the money to buy all the amps and gadgets out there.

Like somebody stated earlier, he used the volume knobs a lot. And he liked to use small amps in the studio (makes a difference how the sound sits in the mix).

Anyway, why don´t we all find our own sound...?

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