Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[Hotplant]

Hi Hotplant !

I've never heard and don't know anyone who has. As Knebby has stated, Robert doesn't seem to know either.

As I mentioned on the Tube thread, he seemed very tired right from the start of the show . I can only speculate as to why. It very well may have just been exhaustion but it has alway's been my opinion that whatever it was, it was there from the start . At the time, Vancouver's well documented reputation for crowd violence was a major concern and because of that, I happen to believe, rightly or wrongly, that the announcement of Robert being taken to hospital was as much a plea to the audience as anything else. I can tell you that prior to that announcement when the house lights came on, the crowd was about an inch away from tearing up the place.

Hi Ally!

Wow, well at least he can add thanks Vancouver for the speedy get-away too!

[Hotplant]

Edited January 4, 2011 by Hotplant

[Hotplant]

sorry for the double posts dunnno why it's doing that after i wait the 45 secs!!

Edited January 4, 2011 by Hotplant

[ally]

Hi Ally!

Wow, well at least he can add thanks Vancouver for the speedy get-away too!

[Jahfin]

Steve, I believe, that is, I remember the article 'Led Zeppelin - Six Reasons Why They Are Bigger Than The Beatles' as being published in CIRCUS magazine and not Creem. I had a subscription to Circus at the time.

I will say that is a shame to Circus that they did not get better and more pictures to publish of Led Zeppelin on Tour in ,73, 75, and '77.

When you look at how Circus magazine has covered bands like Slipknot over the years, with many, many articles and many, many photos through the years, the attention heaped on a band like that, as compared to what the editors gave one the world's truly great Rock'n'Roll bands, Led Zeppelin, is insulting, to this fan. Even if Circus couldn't get interviews as of ten as they'd like, they could certianly go to the concerts and report on them. It just shows how Circus was in some respects just one step above a publication like Hit Parader, imo.

I was avid reader of Circus back in the day but compared to the writing in publications such as Creem and Rolling Stone they always struck me as one step above the likes of Tiger Beat. For the record, I also read Hit Parader and Rock Scene back in those days. About the only thing Hit Parader was good for was song lyrics. As for the number of photographs then vs. now in Circus, maybe it has a lot to do with the advent of the digital camera where the the capacity for photos is nearly endless. In the days of film it was a whole different beast.

[MadScreamingGallery]

I have a 1973 Starship Question:

When in 1973 did Zeppelin begin using the Starship?

In the Bonus footage found in TSRTS, the local news coverage of the 1973 Tampa event shows Zeppelin arriving in a small private jet, and not the Starship.

Hi Rover, I don't have any hard data or references to give you but I'm fairly certain I remember Zep started to use the Starship for the first time in Chicago.

[dazedjeffy]

Hi Rover, I don't have any hard data or references to give you but I'm fairly certain I remember Zep started to use the Starship for the first time in Chicago.

After performing a show at San Francisco's Kezar Stadium on June 2, 1973, Zeppelin encountered bad turbulence on a flight back to Los Angeles. This unnerving incident persuaded Grant that if they were going to have to fly, they would do it in as much style, comfort and safety as possible-regardless of cost. Led Zeppelin leased The Starship for the remainder of the 1973 US Tour for $30,000 and the entire 1975 US Tour for $2,500 per hour or $5 per mile (whichever came higher).

[SteveAJones]

After performing a show at San Francisco's Kezar Stadium on June 2, 1973, Zeppelin encountered bad turbulence on a flight back to Los Angeles. This unnerving incident persuaded Grant that if they were going to have to fly, they would do it in as much style, comfort and safety as possible-regardless of cost. Led Zeppelin leased The Starship for the remainder of the 1973 US Tour for $30,000 and the entire 1975 US Tour for $2,500 per hour or $5 per mile (whichever came higher).

I show Jimmy and Peter Grant flew aboard a United Airlines commerical flight from Los Angeles to the San Francisco gig on account of Page's fear of flying in Led Zeppelin's small private jet (it was prone to encountering turbulence). Legendary Bay Area concert promoter Bill Graham vivdly recalled the concert was delayed on account of this short notice travel arrangement for Jimmy in his autobiography.

The Starship was leased as you indicated and used throughout the second leg of the tour starting in July 1973.

Edited January 4, 2011 by SteveAJones

[The Rover]

Hi Rover, I don't have any hard data or references to give you but I'm fairly certain I remember Zep started to use the Starship for the first time in Chicago.

Curious thing is... before the Dallas show on May 18, 1973, my father, a commercial airline pilot, flying in and out of Dallas Love Field, remarked to me that he "saw your group's plane at the airport". What I do not now know is if he saw The Starship, or another plane that might have had "Zeppelin" painted on it.

I do know that Dallas Love Field had hangers big enough to work on planes the size of the Starship. Perhaps the Starship was at Love Field to have something done to it, before Zeppelin took it over. Does anyone where the Starship was prepped for Zeppelin's use of it in 1973?

[dazedjeffy]

Obviously, there have been countless numbers of stories of John Bonham drinking to excess and causing debauchery in the United States tours. Have there been anything reported similarly about his activities in any of the European tours?

[MadScreamingGallery]

Curious thing is... before the Dallas show on May 18, 1973, my father, a commercial airline pilot, flying in and out of Dallas Love Field, remarked to me that he "saw your group's plane at the airport". What I do not now know is if he saw The Starship, or another plane that might have had "Zeppelin" painted on it.

I do know that Dallas Love Field had hangers big enough to work on planes the size of the Starship. Perhaps the Starship was at Love Field to have something done to it, before Zeppelin took it over. Does anyone where the Starship was prepped for Zeppelin's use of it in 1973?

I like this story and how your father called LZ "your group." Was the Falcon jet painted with LZ's name? Maybe that's what your father saw. I don't know where the Starship was prepped for Zep's '73 use of it but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it was painted and retrofitted inside at one of the Dallas Love Field hangers. If so, your father would have been one of the first to see the Starship taking off (and heading to Chicago?) with the new LZ name on it.

[SteveAJones]

I like this story and how your father called LZ "your group." Was the Falcon jet painted with LZ's name? Maybe that's what your father saw. I don't know where the Starship was prepped for Zep's '73 use of it but I wouldn't be surprised to learn that it was painted and retrofitted inside at one of the Dallas Love Field hangers. If so, your father would have been one of the first to see the Starship taking off (and heading to Chicago?) with the new LZ name on it.

Given the date - circa May 18 1973 - it could not possibly have been The Starship because Peter Grant's initial consideration, let alone decision to lease a jetliner was not made until sometime after the San Francisco gig on June 2, 1973. Additionally the retrofitting would have been completed prior to the Allman Brother's tour;

they leased it prior after Led Zeppelin. As a by the way, the exterior paint scheme remained unchanged, "Allman Brothers" was simply painted over with "Led Zeppelin". The Starship was owned by Bobby Sherman and his manager, Ward Sylvester, and as they both hailed from Southern California the retrofitting was probably done there in Southern CA.

It is entirely possible it was the much smaller jet. So far as I know it bore no exterior markings to denote "Led Zeppelin" but regardless it's certainly plausible other pilots and personnel at Love Field became aware of whom it was there for.

Edited January 8, 2011 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Obviously, there have been countless numbers of stories of John Bonham drinking to excess and causing debauchery in the United States tours. Have there been anything reported similarly about his activities in any of the European tours?

The only European incident that comes to mind occured March 1st 1973 at a press reception for the band held at the Galerie Birch in Copenhagen. This eyewitness account from photographer Jorgen Angel:

"I met them at a press reception that took place in an art gallery called Galerie Birch in Copenhagen." "The reason for the location is that it was understood that the band, or at least Jimmy Page, was very interested in art, so they held the press reception in this gallery. It was an exhibition of modern art and the exhibition hadn't opened yet.”

"The atmosphere was sort of mixed. It was OK at the beginning. . .but it was around the time when people were talking about Jimmy Page's interest in Black Magick and that sort of thing, so the reporters were asking him questions about this and that didn't help the atmosphere. "There was an attractive dark-haired woman hanging out and John Paul Jones was trying to charm her. In almost every photo I took he's right next to her looking at her with these half-drunk, goofy eyes. I really think he was, as we say in Danish, 'baking on her.' I recently found out that she was the sister-in-law of the owner of the Gallery."

"We were there for quite some time and as the afternoon wore on the mood didn't get any better, partly because of these questions, and I think maybe they got a little drunk. What I recall is that one of the guys - I can't remember if it was John Bonham or John Paul Jones (most likely Bonham since Jones was preoccupied by charming the lady), had on some knitted gloves. It was the end of the winter in Denmark it was pretty cold. And the paintings on the wall in this exhibition were so new, so fresh, the paint wasn't dry yet. So what he did was smear out some of the paint on the canvas and actually change the paintings.”

"This created a very tense atmosphere because these paintings were very expensive. And even though you couldn't see if he had smeared anything, because they were modern abstract images, people started talking about lawsuits and damages and all this. For some reason the band thought that I had taken a photo of the actual incident when paint was being smeared, and that this photo could be used as evidence. So they wouldn't let me leave.”

"At the same time, the two reporters who had asked all these questions about Black Magick and everything had been physically thrown out. The gallery was like, five or ten steps up, and though I didn't see this myself, I was told that they were thrown down the stairs, just to get them out. So there was a very tense atmosphere.”

"When I approached the exit to get out the bodyguards stood in front of me and said I couldn't go. They wanted me to hand over the film, which I didn't want to do because these were pictures I was going to sell. So they were intimidating me and blocking the exit so I couldn't leave. I managed to get a hold of the promoter and told him that apparently they thought I had taken a photo of this incident, which I hadn't, but nevertheless I wouldn't turn over my photos unless I got something in return.

We reached an agreement whereby on the following evening I would show up at the concert and I would hand them over the film in return for some exclusive photos backstage. I don't know why but for some reason the band accepted this. It was silly because they couldn't tell whether the film they would be given the next day was the genuine stuff, and of course it wasn't.”

"What I did was remove the roll of film I'd taken from the camera, put in a roll of blank film, took 36 shots of nothing and went to the backstage in order to roll back the film so they could see it come out of the camera. I didn't get the backstage shots and they didn't get the film. Maybe they figured out that it was too late and that I would have done this anyway, I don't know. But it was a less pleasant experience than my previous ones with Led Zeppelin. Obviously the Danish press was partly to blame for it, but it was also obvious at the time the band entered the gallery they couldn't care about us or anything. At that time you could say it was a disappointing meeting with them.”

"I've tried to do some investigation about that press reception and how it all turned out. Old Mr. Birch is dead now but I tracked down his daughter, who was only fifteen at the time, and she said that her father never filed a complaint or a suit; he never did lawsuits. So we can safely assume that there was not a lawsuit, though there is no way to tell whether or not the band ever paid for damaging the paintings."

[GeorgeC]

Given the date - circa May 18 1973 - it could not possibly have been The Starship because Peter Grant's initial consideration, let alone decision to lease a jetliner was not made until sometime after the San Francisco gig on June 2, 1973. Additionally the retrofitting would have been completed prior to the Allman Brother's tour;

they leased it prior to Led Zeppelin. As a by the way, the exterior paint scheme remained unchanged, "Allman Brothers" was simply painted over with "Led Zeppelin". The Starship was owned by Bobby Sherman and his manager, Ward Sylvester, and as they both hailed from Southern California the retrofitting was probably done there in Southern CA.

It is entirely possible it was the much smaller jet. So far as I know it bore no exterior markings to denote "Led Zeppelin" but regardless it's certainly plausible other pilots and personnel at Love Field became aware of whom it was there for.

Are you sure the Allmans had it first, Steve? I looked up this pic of the Starship that was taken in 1974. Same plane, different logo. I was under the impression that Zeppelin were Sherman & Sylvester's first customers.

Allmans' Starship

Edited January 8, 2011 by GeorgeC

[SteveAJones]

Are you sure the Allmans had it first, Steve? I looked up this pic of the Starship that was taken in 1974. Same plane, different logo. I was under the impression that Zeppelin were Sherman & Sylvester's first customers.

My mistake! I must remind myself never to post from memory. Led Zeppelin were indeed the first to lease it, and many followed.

According to this link the retrofitting was done in Oakland, CA.

http://www.bobbysherman.com/starship.htm

[The Rover]

My mistake! I must remind myself never to post from memory. Led Zeppelin were indeed the first to lease it, and many followed.

According to this link the retrofitting was done in Oakland, CA.

http://www.bobbysherman.com/starship.htm

There's an outside chance that it was during Zep's 1975 Dallas-Ft.Worth stop that my Dad said he saw the plane. I do know that Love Field can do maintenance on large aircraft. I wish my Dad was still here to ask, but he passed away in 2006 at the age of 86.

As an aside to the Dallas 1975 stop, I asked my Dad to call someone at the Love Field Tower the day after the first Dallas show, to see where Zep went to. They told my Dad that Zep's plane filed a flight plan to New Orleans. I think he said the plane left around 1:30am. I do remember seeing Jimmy & Robert jump into the back of a Custom Van to leave the Dallas Memorial Auditorium. Boy, would I have liked to be along for that trip !!

[mstork]

Hey Steve, I'm reading a John Lennon biography at the moment and it mentions an early '60's meeting between Lennon, George Harrison, Stuart Sutcliffe, and a beat poet by the name of Royston Ellis. The author claims that Ellis had read his poetry on TV backed by "future Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page". Do you have any more information about this? Has anyone ever seen or heard it? That would be interesting.

[kdh]

Hey Steve, I'm reading a John Lennon biography at the moment and it mentions an early '60's meeting between Lennon, George Harrison, Stuart Sutcliffe, and a beat poet by the name of Royston Ellis. The author claims that Ellis had read his poetry on TV backed by "future Led Zeppelin guitarist Jimmy Page". Do you have any more information about this? Has anyone ever seen or heard it? That would be interesting.

http://roystonellisbeatpoet.blogspot.com/2009/04/royston-ellis-with-jimmy-page-late-1960.html

[mstork]

http://roystonellisbeatpoet.blogspot.com/2009/04/royston-ellis-with-jimmy-page-late-1960.html

Very cool, thanks! I hope that winds up on Youtube some day...

[slave to zep]

on tsrts extras dvd during the interview with robert and peter grant ( the one where they are on a boat ), it shows the name of the boat as "swanage queen". is that just a coincidence?

[SteveAJones]

on tsrts extras dvd during the interview with robert and peter grant ( the one where they are on a boat ), it shows the name of the boat as "swanage queen". is that just a coincidence?

The Swanage Queen was a paddle boat steamer used on the Thames for many years in the 70s. Unsure if it was the BBC, Plant or Grant who proposed filming the interview onboard but have never seen anything suggesting the name was a factor.

[slave to zep]

The Swanage Queen was a paddle boat steamer used on the Thames for many years in the 70s. Unsure if it was the BBC, Plant or Grant who proposed filming the interview onboard but have never seen anything suggesting the name was a factor.

thanks steve!

seems peter grant was into product placement way back then!

he was a smart cookie!

[lzzoso]

I have one "mystery" and one question.

(mystery)... When, where, why and how did the rumor of Led Zeppelin "eating women and throwing the bones out the window" originate? This rumor got so far as Robert even mentioned it in an interview sometime in the 1970's that he said something along the lines that he wanted people to know that there was more to know about Led Zeppelin then them "eating women and throwing the bones out the window".

(question)... Jimmy has said that when he agreed to join the Yardbird on bass in 1966 (after the departure of Paul Samwell-Smith) he had never played the bass before. However, Jimmy has also said that when he recorded his single "She Just Satisfies" in 1965 he played every instrument except for the drums. If this second statement is correct then Jimmy had played the bass guitar prior to joining the Yardbirds. As much as I love Mr. Page, he is contradicting himself when he says and I have read both accounts. I think the never playing the bass before joining the Yardbirds is the incorrect one. Which statement is the corrcet one?

[swandown]

(question)... Jimmy has said that when he agreed to join the Yardbird on bass in 1966 (after the departure of Paul Samwell-Smith) he had never played the bass before. However, Jimmy has also said that when he recorded his single "She Just Satisfies" in 1965 he played every instrument except for the drums. If this second statement is correct then Jimmy had played the bass guitar prior to joining the Yardbirds. As much as I love Mr. Page, he is contradicting himself when he says and I have read both accounts. I think the never playing the bass before joining the Yardbirds is the incorrect one. Which statement is the corrcet one?

I think he meant that he'd never played bass in a live band before. He had almost certainly played a bass at some point in his past, even if was just a one-time studio thing.

[GeorgeC]

In the oft-seen picture of Jimmy Page and blonde female friend arriving at Knebworth via helicopter in '79, the woman is usually identified as Charlotte Martin - but there's a quote from American rock writer Lisa Robinson, saying that at the same event she saw Page with Krissie Wood backstage. I've often wondered about this. Any thoughts that the helicopter companion was indeed Ms. Wood?