Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[SteveAJones]

Thank you Steve! What's interesting is the possibility that Peter might have been approached by Claude for 1975. Earls Court's final date was May 25. Before Robert's accident in Greece August 4, Zep were scheduled to start their US summer stadium tour August 23 in Oakland, California. With three months between dates, and Peter liking to use European cities for warm up dates, I really wonder if Claude had asked Peter for Zep to play in Montreux for a night or two that summer, and if Peter even considered it, given Zep's concert gap timeline and his warm up concert strategy for the band (Montreux shows from 1971 and 1972 were considered warm up dates for the band). To your point, the show(s) would have occured in July, and would have been a nice bridge between the last Earl's Court date and the first Oakland date. And, you document that all four were there during that time.

The downside to this was whether or not Zep were too big in 1975 to even play Montreux. I believe the venue only held 7,000-8,000 people. Then, a confirmed date or two might have brought very large crowds to the festival looking for tickets (especially if Montreux was the only European city for Zep to perform that summer), which I'm sure both Peter and Claude wouldn't have wanted.

The other slight possibility as well could have been 1980, as Zep were in Europe. Robert even alludes to the festival at the Zurich show June 29. Almost wonder if Claude inquired about that year as well. Zep were just getting back to the grind of touring, and playing smaller venues. Seems like it would have been a good fit for both parties that particular summer as well.

It is an interesting point to ponder, but yet another mystery where only a bandmember (or perhaps Claude himself) can say with certainty if an offer was ever made to do so. I'll present some information to show it is highly improbable they would have accepted an offer to perform as a group:

Three weeks after the last Earls Court date (May 25th) Robert & Jimmy left for Morocco, attending a few nights of the Moroccan Festival of Folklore in Marrakesh. They then attempted to drive to Tafia from Marrakesh but were turned back by Spanish border patrols so they headed north from Spain through Casablanca and Tangier. Once their drive was completed they joined the rest of the band in Montreux at their tax-exile - Claude Nobs' home. Given all of this, they

almost certainly did not arrive in Montreux any sooner than the last week of June '75.

The 1975 Montreux Jazz Festival ran July 3-20. I don't think venue capacity would be an issue (they did play warm-ups

in the small Falkoner Theatre in Copenhagen four years later) but they could not have brought their full stage show.

(The giant Led Zeppelin backdrop, etc).

When they arrived in Montreux they already knew they'd be right back on tour the following month as you indicated above. The dates for that North American tour were announced on July 7th, and roughly ten days rehearsal were scheduled to be held in France from August 10-20. Of course, all of the dates as well as the rehearsals were cancelled following the Plant's car crash in Rhodes on August 4. As a by the way, Jimmy had flown to Sicily on August 3rd.

Peter Grant had already booked a return to Scandanavia for November (Helsinki, Nov 5 was announced) and as I

understand it had planned to give further consideration to arranging South American dates followed by a return to the

UK in later December.

My point is the band had toured extensively and already anticipated further touring. Undoubtedly, their time in Montreux

as tax exiles was meant to be for rest and relaxation. Only JPJ performed at the festival, if only because of his affinity for Etta James and his prior connection to Maria Muhldar. May well have been the only one to have brought an instrument.

[Blocoboy]

I couldn't find this on the timeline.any thoughts?

Express and Star Thursday 17th April 1969

[SteveAJones]

I couldn't find this on the timeline.any thoughts?

Express and Star Thursday 17th April 1969

Well, the timeline has them performing in New York the very next day so the date of this ad is very peculiar indeed. One would think if it was cancelled it would have occured prior to the day of, and they did play this club on Febraury 24, 1969 to celebrate Pat Bonham's 21st birthday. Quite possibly a new date for the timeline.

[BonzoLikeDrumer]

I couldn't find this on the timeline.any thoughts?

Express and Star Thursday 17th April 1969

Hmmmmm... The word "Disco" is on there... Is this from the mid 1970's or is it a coincidence?

[SteveAJones]

Hmmmmm... The word "Disco" is on there... Is this from the mid 1970's or is it a coincidence?

It's a coincidence, as use of the term "disco" actually dates back to dj's during the Big Band era. Andy Archer was a dj for Radio Caroline. It's raising the question if the ad is merely promoting Led Zeppelin's debut album will be played.

[zeppphead]

First of all, hates off to Steve for starting and exerting such effort on this thread!

I steer clear from all those satanism and backmasking crap but here's my question:

What's connection between those words and Urdu:

In 1982, a California State Assembly consumer-protection-committee hearing

featured testimony from "experts" who claimed that "Stairway," when played

backward, contained the words: "I sing because I live with Satan. The Lord

turns me off -- there's no escaping it. Here's to my sweet Satan, whose power

is Satan. He will give you 666. I live for Satan." Using a reel-to-reel tape

machine, *we* played the song backward. The greatest shock was that the words

sounded just like "Stairway to Heaven," only in Urdu. In the verse that

begins "If there's a bustle in your hedgerow," there is indeed something

uttered that sounds like "sayntin."

From: http://www.superseventies.com/stairway.html

[SteveAJones]

First of all, hats off to Steve for starting and exerting such effort on this thread!

I steer clear from all those satanism and backmasking crap but here's my question:

What's connection between those words and Urdu:

In 1982, a California State Assembly consumer-protection-committee hearing

featured testimony from "experts" who claimed that "Stairway," when played

backward, contained the words: "I sing because I live with Satan. The Lord

turns me off -- there's no escaping it. Here's to my sweet Satan, whose power

is Satan. He will give you 666. I live for Satan." Using a reel-to-reel tape

machine, *we* played the song backward. The greatest shock was that the words

sounded just like "Stairway to Heaven," only in Urdu. In the verse that

begins "If there's a bustle in your hedgerow," there is indeed something

uttered that sounds like "sayntin."

From: http://www.superseve...m/stairway.html

There is no connection, backwards masking on Stairway to Heaven is just a fish story that gets bigger with each retelling, which is why I don't waste time on it. Anyone interested in the origins of the controversy refer to this:

http://en.wikipedia....ckwards_masking

A Coincidence or a Hidden Message?

Two of the most important influences on the English language were the King James Version of the Bible and the plays of William Shakespeare. These works helped standardize the language and make it what it is today. Given their importance to our language, it is not surprising that they also had an influence on each other.

One would think that perhaps the King James Version of the Bible influenced Shakespeare, but this is not so. If Shakespeare wrote any plays after the KJV Bible was published in 1611, they were few and relatively unimportant. Further, it is unlikely that he wrote anything after 1613.

Shakespeare probably had an influence on the KJV Bible, however. The translators would have been familiar with his work and it seems that they imitated his language and style in some places. Some go so far as to claim that Shakespeare helped to translate the KJV. For proof of this, they point to the rather curious fact that the 46th Psalm in the KJV seems to contain a hidden message that references Shakespeare!

Take a look at Psalm 46...

God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah. There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High. God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early. The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah. Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations he hath made in the earth. He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire. Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

If one counts 46 words from the beginning of the chapter, one comes to the word "shake." Discounting the word Selah (the Hebrew equivalent to Amen), we find the same thing at the end of the chapter. The word "spear" is 46 words from the end of the chapter. Remarkably, Shakespeare was 46 in 1610 when the text was being prepared for printing!

Sadly, there is no evidence whatsoever to support the claim that Shakespeare had anything at all to do with the translation of the King James Version of the Bible. This "hidden message" or "easter egg" is not proof of anything and critics say it is just a coincidence. After all, the Bible is a very long book, so the odds of something that appears to be a pattern developing by pure chance are fairly good.

While there is no solid counterargument to the assertion that the Shakespeare message in Psalm 46 is purely coincidental, it should be noted that you can only find it in the KJV. All subsequent translations have either changed one of the words, or rearranged some words so they do not fall where they need to be. Why was the KJV arranged the way it was, while all other translations were different? Of course, this could be asked of any chapter, but the fact that there seems to be a pattern in Psalm 46 makes us think that it might be intentional.

While Shakespeare probably had nothing to do with the translation of the KJV Bible, that does not mean that someone else did not slip his name into the text. It is quite possible that, like all of the other translations, this message was missing in the KJV until a typesetter or translator saw an opportunity to change a word here and a word there to make it fit. Of course, it could be simply a coincidence. It is unlikely that we will ever know for sure. We can be fairly sure, however, that it was not the work of Shakespeare himself.

Edited December 14, 2009 by SteveAJones

[sam_webmaster]

Another gem Blocoboy. The 18th has always been associated with the NY gig, due to press reports (i.e. here). Perhaps they didn't appear there afterall and started the tour in California?

I couldn't find this on the timeline.any thoughts?

Express and Star Thursday 17th April 1969

[dazedjeffy]

"The first time we had Led Zeppelin at the Laf we gave them forty quid for the night. That’s amazing when you consider they were about to become the biggest group on the planet. John Bonham’s sister-in-law worked behind the bar at the Laf and it was on her say-so that we hired them. That first time the queue went all the way around the block. The second time they played at the Laf we paid them a grand and the punters paid a fiver each which was quite unheard of at that time."

-George Maddocks, Club Lafayette manager

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/InBetweenTimes/Page8d.htm

First time = Feb 24, 1969 for Pat Bonham's birthday

Second time = April 17, 1969???

Edited December 14, 2009 by dazedjeffy

[slagfarmer]

With this Club Lafayette show coming out of the woodwork Steve, is there a accurate count on the number of live performances that Led Zeppelin Gave?

[SteveAJones]

-George Maddocks, Club Lafayette manager

http://www.localhist...imes/Page8d.htm

First time = Feb 24, 1969 for Pat Bonham's birthday

Second time = April 17, 1969???

Maddocks' comments certainly suggest this may be the case. I'm attempting to confirm the New York date was cancelled as Sam suggested.

[mikezep61]

Another gem Blocoboy. The 18th has always been associated with the NY gig, due to press reports (i.e. here). Perhaps they didn't appear there afterall and started the tour in California?

There's plenty of evidence to suggest the alleged 4/18/69 NYU University date was never played.

Some examples:

This 4/18/69 press release states that they start their 2nd US Tour in SF on 4/24/69:

All of these articles indicate that the tour starts in SF on 4/24. In fact, Page mentions in the 4/12/69 edition of Record Mirror that they are headed back to the US on 4/20:

Other compelling evidence that this gig was not played:

- The 4/19/69 edition of Disc Magazine says that Led Zeppelin are to leave tomorrow (Friday, April 18th) for the USA.

- How could the band play NEW YORK CITY (!!!) and there not be a single piece of tangible evidence anywhere (New York Times, Village Voice, etc.)?

[Blocoboy]

Wolverhampton archives are now closed for a fortnight..I'll visit again in the new year and see if the gig was reviewed.

[SteveAJones]

With this Club Lafayette show coming out of the woodwork Steve, is there a accurate count on the number of live performances that Led Zeppelin gave?

I can certainly tally up those that are considered confirmed beyond a reasonable doubt. Still quite a few rumored

or unconfirmed dates, such as Las Vegas in Jul/Aug 69 and now NYU Jazz Festival '69 if this "new" gig is confirmed.

[SteveAJones]

There's plenty of evidence to suggest the alleged 4/18/69 NYU University date was never played.

How could the band play NEW YORK CITY (!!!) and there not be a single piece of tangible evidence anywhere (New York Times, Village Voice, etc.)?

All very compelling evidence to suggest they did not at NYU's 3rd Annual Jazz Fesival on 4/18/69. My notes show

Lewis & Pallett's book 'The Concert File' states they were billed with Dave Brubek and Errol Garner - certainly

not suitable support acts for Led Zeppelin's blues-based bombast!

[bonhampaiste444]

I wanted to know about all the sexual things that Led Zeppelin is accused of doing.

Is it True or False.

[Deborah J]

I wanted to know about all the sexual things that Led Zeppelin is accused of doing.

Is it True or False.

Welcome to the forum, but loyal fans never kiss and tell.

[SteveAJones]

I wanted to know about all the sexual things that Led Zeppelin is accused of doing.

Is it True or False.

More fish stories that get bigger with every retelling, but often contain an element of truth. However, this is the official board and overly personal discussions of that nature aren't permissable here. Surfing the web will enable you to sort most of the facts from fiction, especially while listening to the lyrics of Royal Orleans very closely.

[GeorgeC]

Steve, there's a post-Zep interview with RP when he jokes about somehow getting an "occasional bass" credit on the back cover of LZI ("Jonesy could blame me when he fucked up" or something like that). I've never seen any issues of the album with this credit, and obviously Plant didn't, in fact, contribute bass parts. Any idea what he's talking about? I don't believe anyone but JPJ ever played bass for Zeppelin, or was cited as doing so.

[swandown]

Steve, there's a post-Zep interview with RP when he jokes about somehow getting an "occasional bass" credit on the back cover of LZI ("Jonesy could blame me when he fucked up" or something like that). I've never seen any issues of the album with this credit, and obviously Plant didn't, in fact, contribute bass parts. Any idea what he's talking about? I don't believe anyone but JPJ ever played bass for Zeppelin, or was cited as doing so.

From a 2005 Rolling Stone interview:

"I'd love to play bass with [The Black Keys] for a bit. In truth, I was an occasional bass player. It says so on Zeppelin I, next to my name: vocals, harmonica and occasional bass. Very occasionally -- once, I think, since 1968. How in God's name that ended up on the cover is so funny. I'm sure Jonesy didn't like it [laughs]. But I suppose every time he fucked up he could say it was me."

[GeorgeC]

That's the interview all right, Swandown, but did it ever really say "Occasional bass" under RP's name on LZI, or is he just misremembering something else?

[SteveAJones]

Steve, there's a post-Zep interview with RP when he jokes about somehow getting an "occasional bass" credit on the back cover of LZI ("Jonesy could blame me when he fucked up" or something like that). I've never seen any issues of the album with this credit, and obviously Plant didn't, in fact, contribute bass parts. Any idea what he's talking about? I don't believe anyone but JPJ ever played bass for Zeppelin, or was cited as doing so.

It's preposterous - clearly he was speaking tongue in cheek.

Strange but true, Led Zeppelin were actually joined by a female in a Belkin Productions t-shirt on bass for an encore after JPJ had left to catch a flight to England to join his ailing father:

http://ledzeppelin.com/show/august-26-1970

[MadScreamingGallery]

Welcome to the forum, but loyal fans never kiss and tell.

No, they don't...

Question: When LZ were in the NYC area for their '72 concerts at Nassau Coliseum on Long Island, between concerts, they went back into NYC and at one point were at a recording studio...I think, the Electric Ladyland Studios. As far as music, what, if anything, did they do there? I used to think it had something to do with "The Drone", either recording it there or editing a recording they made of it (either at the Coliseum or a studio in England?).

[SteveAJones]

No, they don't...

Question: When LZ were in the NYC area for their '72 concerts at Nassau Coliseum on Long Island, between concerts, they went back into NYC and at one point were at a recording studio...I think, the Electric Ladyland Studios. As far as music, what, if anything, did they do there? I used to think it had something to do with "The Drone", either recording it there or editing a recording they made of it (either at the Coliseum or a studio in England?).

Hi, Screamer. I show it was some mixing of the 'Houses of the Holy' album material (recorded in May at Olympic Studios in London) and some recording for the song 'Houses of the Holy'. They also rehearsed 'No Quarter' there

as an instrumental earlier that month.

[MadScreamingGallery]

Hi, Screamer. I show it was some mixing of the 'Houses of the Holy' album material (recorded in May at Olympic Studios in London) and some recording for the song 'Houses of the Holy'. They also rehearsed 'No Quarter' there

as an instrumental earlier that month.

Hi Mr. Jones. Thanks for your quick and very interesting response. LZ's activities in the studio (Electric Ladyland?) were much more significant than my friends and I ever could have imagined.