Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[Knebby]

The Questions in Thousands Take Flight

According to the 1983 American music magazine article below Robert Plant performed in Leeds in late 1982. However, according Dave Lewis (in his book 'Led Zeppelin - The Concert File') Robert's December 22, 1982 gig at The Warehouse in Leeds as well as one at The General Wolfe pub in Coventry the next night were cancelled "quite probably on account of ongoing studio sessions and Robert's reluctance to have the line-up begin touring straight-away in Britain". So the question becomes is this magazine article simply incorrect regarding Robert having performed in Leeds in late 1982, or was that Leeds date (or another) performed?

My next question concerns Robert's appearance at the Collins concert in Syracuse. I have confirmed the date (Feb 12, 1983), the venue (War Memorial Auditorum) and the support acts (The Fabulous Jacuzzi's and The One Neat Guy) but have been unable to confirm at what point Robert made his appearance onstage & what he said to the audience. Does anyone know?

I'm also seeking confirmation of what Robert was doing in New York at the time given I show no other confirmed public appearances, media activity or studio sessions.

Circus (USA), May 31, 1983

Scan courtesy Steve A. Jones Archive

Am pretty sure that Leeds gig was cancelled, as we were supposed to be going. He did do the one at Kinver Community Centre though, which I think was Nov 3rd or 4th 1982.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Knebby

[SteveAJones]

Am pretty sure that Leeds gig was cancelled, as we were supposed to be going. He did do the one at Kinver Community Centre though, which I think was Nov 3rd or 4th 1982.

I was hoping you could contribute and I now firmly believe the American magazine (Circus) is incorrect; the gig announced for Leeds was cancelled.

I'm aware of the November 4, 1982 gig at Kinver Community Centre, however my notes show according to Dave Lewis (in his book 'Led Zeppelin - The Concert File') it was "a rehearsal for the second album" which they'd been working on down the road at Rockfield Studios. I take this to mean tickets were not sold, that it was more or less closed to the general public, and the performance was limited to tracks from the second album. If you were there and/or can provide any further details I would appreciate it.

Thank you, Knebby.

Edited January 25, 2011 by SteveAJones

[Knebby]

I was hoping you could contribute and I now firmly believe the American magazine (Circus) is incorrect; the gig announced for Leeds was cancelled.

I'm aware of the November 4, 1982 gig at Kinver Community Centre, however my notes show according to Dave Lewis (in his book 'Led Zeppelin - The Concert File') it was "a rehearsal for the second album" which they'd been working on down the road at Rockfield Studios. I take this to mean tickets were not sold, that it was more or less closed to the general public, and the performance was limited to tracks from the second album. If you were there and/or can provide any further details I would appreciate it.

Thank you, Knebby.

It was open to the public - though I have to say it was mainly family, friends and locals, being close to Robert and the band's homes and families. I was there, I can't remember much about what they played - I think it was a similar set to the earlier Honeydrippers gigs, and I think Melvyn Giganticus and The Turd Burglars were the support act, possibly also Billy Bowell and the Movements , not sure - but Robert's brother-in-law JB was onstage with one or both of them.

I remember it as a light-hearted run-through of old songs, in a Honeydrippers-type vein - not an airing for any new songs - but as my memory is clearly a bit cloudy on this, I'll see if any of the people I was there with can remember.

[SteveAJones]

It was open to the public - though I have to say it was mainly family, friends and locals, being close to Robert and the band's homes and families. I was there, I can't remember much about what they played - I think it was a similar set to the earlier Honeydrippers gigs, and I think Melvyn Giganticus and The Turd Burglars were the support act, possibly also Billy Bowell and the Movements , not sure - but Robert's brother-in-law JB was onstage with one or both of them.

I remember it as a light-hearted run-through of old songs, in a Honeydrippers-type vein - not an airing for any new songs - but as my memory is clearly a bit cloudy on this, I'll see if any of the people I was there with can remember.

My notes aren't legible. It could well be "a rehearsal during the second album sessions" as opposed to "a rehearsal of the second album". I don't have the Lewis book with me to confirm his entry concerning that date so perhaps someone can post it here. I did go through there (Kinver) about 15 years ago & photographed the venue. The photograph below is not taken from the ones I took but is merely one already available online:

Edited January 25, 2011 by SteveAJones

[Jahfin]

I was hoping you could contribute and I now firmly believe the American magazine (Circus) is incorrect; the gig announced for Leeds was cancelled.

I wouldn't rely on Circus to be accurate about most anything. Yeah, there were some good articles in there from time to time but for the most part they were a prime example of yellow journalism of rock.

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

What led you to believe this is the case?

Well, I looked at the Led Zeppelin database site you showed me a while back and looked at sets and there are only about 30 (and thats all the know times) or so times is was played over-seas. Since it was written, it was on just about on ever setlist for US tours.

http://www.ledzeppelin-database.com/geekbaseweb/songpage.aspx?songid=17&sort=0

Edited January 25, 2011 by JimmyPageZoSo56

[SteveAJones]

Well, I looked at the Led Zeppelin database site you showed me a while back and looked at sets and there are only about 30 (and thats all the know times) or so times is was played over-seas. Since it was written, it was on just about on ever setlist for US tours.

http://www.ledzeppel...ongid=17&sort=0

Oh, I see. Bear in mind that list reflects "recordings in circulation" as opposed to "total performances". There are no known

recordings for many of the non-US shows which explains the comparatively low number. Note also as shown earlier that

Moby Dick was seldom performed from Oct 1972 - Jun 1973.

[zeppelincrony]

Welcome to my thread, won't you come inside. Miracles may happen, every now & again.

This thread is going to be about UNSOLVED LED ZEPPELIN MYSTERIES.

I am the thread starter and these are my guidelines:

1. Stay on topic. If your post doesn't pertain to an Unsolved Led Zeppelin Mystery

you will be placed on ignore.

2. Anyone can post what THEY believe to be an Unsolved Led Zeppelin Mystery, or

respond to one already posted. If you make a claim that solves a mystery be prepared to SUBSTANTIATE IT (news article, photo, credentials, etc).

3. NO BLACK MAGIC / BACKWARDS MASKING posts. I WILL ignore you.

Enjoy the thread! Here's hoping we can all solve a mystery or two together.

well i agree that these poor excuses for "mysteries" are indeed trivia...the one BIG REMAINING mystery of Led Zeppelin has to be how Bonzo actually died. I mean i know the official story, but Peter Grant was a very obsessive man. Always wanted control and always protecting his cash cows. Now, how could he allow Bonzo to die? Knowing that Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Keith Moon, Bon Scott and Jim Morrison all had killed themselves by overindulgence, dont you think Grant wouldve taken steps to ensure his charges didnt meet the same fate? Grant knew that the band was into excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol...especially by 1980...i mean...i am not pointing fingers, but it makes me scratch my head....

[Deborah J]

well i agree that these poor excuses for "mysteries" are indeed trivia...the one BIG REMAINING mystery of Led Zeppelin has to be how Bonzo actually died. I mean i know the official story, but Peter Grant was a very obsessive man. Always wanted control and always protecting his cash cows. Now, how could he allow Bonzo to die? Knowing that Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Keith Moon, Bon Scott and Jim Morrison all had killed themselves by overindulgence, dont you think Grant wouldve taken steps to ensure his charges didnt meet the same fate? Grant knew that the band was into excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol...especially by 1980...i mean...i am not pointing fingers, but it makes me scratch my head....

Well ,what a way to introduce yourself...and this is your first post

[hecube]

well i agree that these poor excuses for "mysteries" are indeed trivia...the one BIG REMAINING mystery of Led Zeppelin has to be how Bonzo actually died. I mean i know the official story, but Peter Grant was a very obsessive man. Always wanted control and always protecting his cash cows. Now, how could he allow Bonzo to die? Knowing that Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Keith Moon, Bon Scott and Jim Morrison all had killed themselves by overindulgence, dont you think Grant wouldve taken steps to ensure his charges didnt meet the same fate? Grant knew that the band was into excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol...especially by 1980...i mean...i am not pointing fingers, but it makes me scratch my head....

Maybe he was in the grip of an addiction himself?

[Flyingzepp]

well i agree that these poor excuses for "mysteries" are indeed trivia...the one BIG REMAINING mystery of Led Zeppelin has to be how Bonzo actually died. I mean i know the official story, but Peter Grant was a very obsessive man. Always wanted control and always protecting his cash cows. Now, how could he allow Bonzo to die? Knowing that Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Keith Moon, Bon Scott and Jim Morrison all had killed themselves by overindulgence, dont you think Grant wouldve taken steps to ensure his charges didnt meet the same fate? Grant knew that the band was into excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol...especially by 1980...i mean...i am not pointing fingers, but it makes me scratch my head....

Kind of a assnineish 1st post yeah?

[SteveAJones]

The one BIG REMAINING mystery of Led Zeppelin has to be how Bonzo actually died. I mean i know the official story, but Peter Grant was a very obsessive man. Always wanted control and always protecting his cash cows. Now, how could he allow Bonzo to die? Knowing that Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Keith Moon, Bon Scott and Jim Morrison all had killed themselves by overindulgence, dont you think Grant would've taken steps to ensure his charges didn't meet the same fate? Grant knew that the band was into excessive amounts of drugs and alcohol...especially by 1980...i mean...i am not pointing fingers, but it makes me scratch my head....

Peter Grant is not to blame for John Bonham's accidental death.

[SteveAJones]

Amazing Blog and Led Zeppelin Article…Go check it out!

I see you joined this forum today (welcome) then proceeded to spam at least nine threads with the same announcement (unwelcomed).

[dazedjeffy]

Steve,

I thought that I had read either here or at r-o that you made a statement that JPJ had a second triple neck guitar built for the Zooma tour due to the original's fragile state. Is that true and if so, how did you back that statement up?

[SteveAJones]

Steve,

I thought that I had read either here or at r-o that you made a statement that JPJ had a second triple neck guitar built for the Zooma tour due to the original's fragile state. Is that true and if so, how did you back that statement up?

I may have attempted to reiterate a statement JPJ himself had made to the effect of some of his original basses being in too fragile a state to be taken on the road in 1999. If I recall correctly he commented on it in at least one press interview. I'll see if I can pinpoint relevant quotes and share them here.

On the Zooma tour (1999) he would occasionally flip the original instrument around at the end of his triple neck solo to show off his symbol engraved on the back of it (refer to 3:20 of video clip).

If memory serves correct he had a triple neck made for the 2001 Thunderthief tour and also commissioned Hugh Manson to build a bass for the Ahmet Ertegun Tribute concert.

Photo Credit: Steve A. Jones

John Paul Jones, Batschkapp in Frankfurt, November 8, 1999

Photo Credit: Steve A. Jones

John Paul Jones, Batschkapp in Frankfurt, November 8, 1999

John Paul Jones, House of Blues in New Orleans, March 14, 2000

Video courtesy of www.JohnPaulJones.com

Edited January 30, 2011 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Excerpt of John Paul Jones interview from Sound on Sound (Nov 1999):

The album features a lot of bass instruments, some of which are quite obscure. Can you tell me something about the guitars and instruments you used?

"Well, since the Zeppelin days, I've always had multi-string basses. I used to use 8-string basses as early as 1970 -- a regular bass with octave strings -- and for a project I did in 1994 with Diamanda Galas, I had a new 8-string bass made because my old ones were showing signs of wear. That was made by Hugh Manson, brother of Andrew Manson, the man who made my three-neck acoustic guitar and my other acoustic instruments. Now Hugh makes all my electric guitars and Andrew makes all my acoustics. Hugh is also coming on tour with me as my guitar tech.

"I then wanted to go further, so I got him to make a 12-string bass with a low B and a high C, again in octaves. It turned out to be very heavy for stage use and I was never really happy with the sound of the low B, so I asked him to build a 10-string bass that goes from E to high C. That's what most of Zooma is done on.

"The other unusual instrument is the bass lap steel guitar. I've always played lap steel, even from when I was a kid and used to turn a bad guitar into a lap steel because that was all you could do with it! I stuck at it, and I used to take a little Gibson steel guitar with me when I was on the road with Zeppelin so I could play it in hotels. For Zooma, Hugh made me a bass lap steel, which has eight strings starting at bottom E. It uses wound strings and covers almost the range of a bass plus a regular guitar. Fortunately, all the old techniques came back, so I knew where things were and I knew how to keep it in tune. It's not like a pedal steel, but I do have levers on the bridge so I can change tunings between songs. I tend to use it with quite a bit of distortion."

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov99/articles/john.htm

-------------------------------

Excerpt of John Kryk's interview with John Paul Jones published in The Toronto Sun, March 17, 2002:

SUN: You were the first in Zeppelin, before Jimmy, to play the triple-neck, right? Only you played the triple-neck.

JPJ: Right.

SUN: Jimmy just brought out one for that tour he did with Robert a few years ago?

JPJ: I believe so, yes.

SUN: What was the impetus behind that? I've always been curious.

JPJ: The triple-neck?

SUN: Yeah.

JPJ: Well there are two brothers: Andy Manson and Hugh Manson. Hugh Manson makes all my electrics, and he's my tech guy (on tour). He's a grrrreat guy. Andy makes all the acoustics. He made that mandolin [points to his mandolin in the room]. Andy was the first one I met -- a very fine acoustic instrument-maker. The two brothers are just so talented. And one day, oh, around '73 or something, he turned up at my door and said, "I hear you're in a pop group. Do you need any instruments repaired?" ... And then one day he saw the show and he said, "I noticed you were getting up -- by then I was using mandolin, 12-string guitar and six-string acoustic, and I was always, "okay, here's the next number," and there was all this running about the stage, changing instruments. And he said, "If I make you a guitar with all the things you need on it, would you use it?" And I said, "Well, I don't know. It sounds bizarre to me." He said, "Well, I'll do it." And he just turned up with it, with this ... "thing."

SUN: What do you call it?

JPJ: It's just the triple-neck guitar and, yeah, it was great. It did the job really well. Plus it, you know, it guaranteed I got a round of applause when I brought it up (laughs). It always went down really well, no matter how well I managed. In fact for the next tour, on this album, he's made me a new instrument, which is a triple-neck mandolin, which is a similar idea.

SUN: How does it --?

JPJ: It's an F5-style mandolin with a regular mandolin on the top ... and a bass mandolin at the bottom.

SUN: Is it all double-strings?

JPJ: Oh yeah. But it's carved back and front. It's like the back of that [points to his mandolin] with these beautiful scrolls and everything. It's fabulous. I use it with a computer, a Kyma, by doing loops. I did a live tape with about eight different loops on a tune called Down To The River To Pray, which actually came from the movie, O Brother, Where Art Thou? Which Alison Krauss had arranged. So I do that with loops and it turned out quite nicely. So I can do that on stage again, and that will replace the big one (triple-neck) that I had on tour last time.

www.zep.hu/sajto/John%20Paul%20Jones_​2002.doc

Edited January 30, 2011 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

After literally months and months of rehearsals of varying scales, the day of the Led Zeppelin reunion show finally came around on 10th December 2007, and it will always go down as both one of the most nerve-racking and memorable nights of Hugh's life thus far.

"The O2 show was just the most stressful possible thing you can imagine," Hugh laughs. "And, of course, it was compounded by the number of support bands. The stage was just littered in stuff, there were musicians everywhere, and the side of the stage was just full of people trying to set guitars up, which made it very, very difficult. But it all went well and, of course, they played an absolute blinder of a gig! But we did have a few technical moments. Actually, when they announced the tickets and 20 million people hit the website, I suddenly thought, 'Bloody hell! I hope everything works!'"

The bass rig that John Paul Jones used for the O2 gig was both solid and simple. Guitar-wise, he played three of Hugh Manson's instruments on stage: a normal-length four-string "called Eric", a four-string built especially for the show, a 10-string, as well as a Fender fretless bass. Hugh was carrying a spare for each. As far as John's amplifiers went, he was using his pet favourites: two SWR SM-900 heads, each running through a 4 x 10 cab and a 1 x 15 cab, one for the bass pedals on the keyboards and one for his guitars. In addition, when John was playing the 10-string octave instrument, the bridge pickup was wired into a Bad Cat amp.

Manson's actually provided John Paul Jones with two techs for the evening. While Hugh Manson coped with the bass guitar aspects of John's rig, Seth Baccus, guitar shop manager in Exeter, supported John's MIDI and keyboard rig. As Sod's Law would have it, just literally minutes before the most anticipated gig of the new millennium, key parts of both sides of the rig decided to fall down. Luckily, Hugh and Seth managed to kick the spares into action almost instantaneously.

"We had the whole keyboard confuse itself about 20 minutes before the show," explains Hugh. "It was quite a complicated MIDI rig and it was sending a message to the bass pedals to give infinite sustain, so if you pressed one bass pedal, that note continued for a fortnight if you left it. But it was sending some garbled message to the upper keyboard that it wouldn't work at all. Luckily, I had the presence of mind to get a spare keyboard. So I was standing there going grey and aging by the second, waiting for the first keyboard song to come in which I think was song number three or four just hoping that when he pressed the pedal it worked. And thank God, it did!

"That was also compounded by the fact that also about 20 minutes before they went on stage, I just thought I'd make sure the bass amps were working OK, and silence! Something had overheated for no apparent reason. Luckily, I had another two spares, but from my point of view it was a bit of a nightmare! But it all went well in the end, and I didn't tell John before he went on stage that he was using the spare keyboard and that we didn't have another spare, otherwise it probably would have ruined his evening! When he came off stage and I told him, he just said, 'Oh man, well done!' I've actually got a signed poster by him that says something like, 'To Hugh, the real star of the show!' which is quite good really! So my maxim for anyone going touring is, for Christ's sake, take two of absolutely everything. And if you can afford it, take three!"

http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/jun09/articles/techthat.htm

Edited January 30, 2011 by SteveAJones

[dazedjeffy]

Thanks for the response. I had the opportunity to ask Andy Manson and he confirmed that there was only one triple neck guitar, although he said he did make the triple neck Mandolin/Mandola/Bass Mandolin in 2000 for JPJ (which you reference above)

[SteveAJones]

Thanks for the response. I had the opportunity to ask Andy Manson and he confirmed that there was only one triple neck guitar, although he said he did make the triple neck Mandolin/Mandola/Bass Mandolin in 2000 for JPJ (which you reference above)

^ ^ ^

The Manson John Paul Jones E-Bass model is a replica of the bass that Hugh Manson made in the early 90s and has become John’s first call four-string ever since. Featuring a maple through-neck construction, figured maple top, Aged Cherry Sunburst high gloss lacquer, ebony fingerboard, EMG pickups and active circuit, Hipshot D-Tuner, Schaller machineheads and Badass bridge, the specs reflect exactly the current upgraded hardware of the bass John used on tour with Them Crooked Vultures.

Priced at £2099 (including high quality gig bag), the bass is currently available exclusively from Mansons Guitar Shop (prices correct as of July 2010).

[SteveAJones]

£6M Mansion Sale of JPJ's Former Home

From: THISISSOUTHDEVON.CO.UK 2007.07.13

A georgian mansion house overlooking the River Dart - which was once rocked by seventies supergroup Led Zeppelin - has just been sold to a mystery buyer for more than £6million.

The identity of the owner is being kept such a closely guarded secret that the Dartmouth estate agents who sold it have signed a 'gagging order' banning them from saying anything about the buyer or the seller. In fact the nine bedroom Old Rectory at Dittisham, which comes with seven bathrooms and magnificent views across the Dart Estuary, was sold by former Duran Duran manager Michael Berrow and his wife Frances.

It was only on the market for a month before being snapped up - and at least one of the super rich interested in snapping it was Titanic star Kate Winslet, who was spotted in the village when she came down to look over it.

In fact the word is the Kate did not buy it and that the new owner is not part of the Hollywood or superstar elite and will be using it as a holiday home.

The Old Rectory went on the market a little over a month ago and was marketed by the Marchand Petit chain of estate agents.

It sparked off a lot of interest from would-be buyers from this country and abroad.

But a spokesman for the agents, who did not even want to be named, revealed that there was a legal agreement which meant that he could not say anything about the sale, how much the house actually sold for or who sold or bought it.

However the huge old building with four reception rooms, a small recording studio, a swimming pool and six acres of grounds at the end of Rectory Lane, Dittisham, was being advertised with an asking price of £6 million and it is believed it went for more than that.

The original Georgian building was virtually destroyed by fire in the 1970s leaving nothing but a 50 square foot shell and a porch.

In the early 1980s Led Zeppelin star Jon (sic) Paul Jones lived there and the band used to rehearse there.

In the village pubs and the village store, locals were adamant that they had no idea who the new owners are.

"Somebody said it had been sold but no-one is saying who to," said one. "We seriously haven't heard anything at the moment," said another.

Local district councillor and farmer John Tucker said it was common knowledge that Kate Winslet had been down to look at it but had decided not to buy it.

"There were quite a few celebrities interested but it seems it's not anybody we know of. All I have heard is that they want it for a second home," he said.

[mstork]

Steve, here's one I've been wondering about with all the talk about an impending release of the O2 show on DVD. In preparations for that show, did the guys seriously discuss or debate sitting down during the show for an acoustic set? Did they ever rehearse any acoustic numbers?

[SteveAJones]

Steve, here's one I've been wondering about with all the talk about an impending release of the O2 show on DVD. In preparations for that show, did the guys seriously discuss or debate sitting down during the show for an acoustic set? Did they ever rehearse any acoustic numbers?

In October 2007, Sun Media asked Jimmy if there would be some acoustic, or atypical songs attempted from the back corners of the Zeppelin catalogue. "More than likely," he said. "We've got a blueprint (of a setlist). Now it's time to start constructing".

In another interview he revealed that when the band were first contacted about playing a reunion show, they were asked to play for 40 minutes, but the band thought it was too short.

"When we were first asked to do this [reunion show], we were asked to play a 40-minute set. We soon realised we couldn't," he told Q magazine.

"If we go out and play 'No Quarter', 'Moby Dick' and 'Dazed And Confused' with all the solos, you're already talking over an hour."

He added: "We've gone from [planning to play for] 75 minutes to 90, to the best part of two hours."

Jimmy went on to explain that while Led Zeppelin would play for two hours, he didn't think he could handle playing for much longer than that.

"There's no way I can take on playing three-and-a-half-hour sets now," he said. "Flying against the wind and the storms, because I just don't have that energy anymore. But I've still got enough in me to get through a two-hour set."

[mstork]

In October 2007, Sun Media asked Jimmy if there would be some acoustic, or atypical songs attempted from the back corners of the Zeppelin catalogue. "More than likely," he said. "We've got a blueprint (of a setlist). Now it's time to start constructing".

In another interview he revealed that when the band were first contacted about playing a reunion show, they were asked to play for 40 minutes, but the band thought it was too short.

"When we were first asked to do this [reunion show], we were asked to play a 40-minute set. We soon realised we couldn't," he told Q magazine.

"If we go out and play 'No Quarter', 'Moby Dick' and 'Dazed And Confused' with all the solos, you're already talking over an hour."

He added: "We've gone from [planning to play for] 75 minutes to 90, to the best part of two hours."

Jimmy went on to explain that while Led Zeppelin would play for two hours, he didn't think he could handle playing for much longer than that.

"There's no way I can take on playing three-and-a-half-hour sets now," he said. "Flying against the wind and the storms, because I just don't have that energy anymore. But I've still got enough in me to get through a two-hour set."

Thanks Steve, interesting stuff. I actually thought sitting down with an acoustic for 2 or 3 songs would give him a chance to catch his breath, but that's easy for me to say!

[GeorgeC]

Steve, Dave Lewis' Celebration II mentions a "Billy Francis from Rod Stewart's organization" enlisted to oversee the 1980 European tour with Phil Carlo. Any more reports of his involvement in the Zeppelin organization? Where did he come from, and where did he go?

[SteveAJones]

Steve, Dave Lewis' Celebration II mentions a "Billy Francis from Rod Stewart's organization" enlisted to oversee the 1980 European tour with Phil Carlo. Any more reports of his involvement in the Zeppelin organization? Where did he come from, and where did he go?

Sorry George, you may want to direct this question to Dave as I don't have anything on file concerning Billy Francis.