Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[SteveAJones]

Well, it is presented as a quote from Jimmy himself, that's the point I found odd. (excerpt from p147) "The Earl's Court show in particular hit home. I'd just gone through a divorce and that was the last show of the 1975 tour. I remember I decided to travel, because there was nothing really keeping me home. Shortly after that, Robert had his accident..."

I'd like to think you're just putting me on, but I'm sure someone else with the book can substantiate the claim you are make here. So assuming this is in fact a direct quote from page 147, I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Perhaps the "divorce" to which he refers was on an emotional level as opposed to legally speaking? As I said, it was a rough patch for them; this being a public forum I won't get into some of the uglier specifics. The other thing about the quote is he sort of glosses over having gone to Morocco and Spain with Robert the following month, which was not insignificant in that the lyrics to Kashmir were written during their travels. Robert's accident wasn't until August 4, 1975.

[Texas Melanie]

The quote is correct but it is on page 175. I don't know when the interview took place, maybe in 2003 when the DVD came out.

EDIT:

Jimmy seemed to be rewriting history in that interview since he claimed that since he went through a divorce prompted him to travel after the Earl's Court shows when in fact the band had to leave Britain for tax reasons.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Texas Melanie

[Dallas Knebs]

I saw this quote and took it to be the author inserting a paraphrase rather than quoting Page precisely

[pj040403]

sorry I have an ebook version so pagination is probably different than on the paper one. and you're both right: there is a direct quote in what is clearly a dialog, and a paraphrase on the same topic (a few pages before)

[pj040403]

maybe he meant he was going through a divorce... with his own country?!

[Knebby]

I remembered I had this quote scanned in, but I don't remember where I got it from so it isn't that much help - but FWIW I think Jimmy was speaking figuratively - it is a very English thing to say things and not mean them in the literal sense - like Robert's recent quip about getting married.

[pj040403]

Thanks. I liked the "Charolette"! Amazing that the journalist dared to ask such personal questions to Jimmy so bluntly. It looks more like a police questioning than a press interview! Frankly in his position I would have showed him or her the exit door fast...

[jsj]

"We came to see Robert Plant - and all we got was Joan Jett. Granted, Jett put on a good show. But couldn't Plant have gone on without Blackwell? Wasn't there one drummer in Norman Friday night who could have filled in, just for one show? How about Jett's drummer. He wasn't busy. Hey, we're the ones who made Plant what he is. We buy his records. We buy the tickets to his show. We deserve something!"

what a fool. he obviously thinks anyone who can play an instrument (or drums) can just get up and play set of songs they've never rehearsed just like that. maybe he thinks the tv show fame was spontaneous too

[Alice75]

This topic has been one of Jimmy’s mysteries for a long time. Of all fans, no one knows the truth and no one can explain it correctly as far as I know. I’m sure they (Jimmy and Charlotte) will keep silent about this and I love it.

Jimmy constantly claims that he had a stable family life in his LZ era in the book (Light and Shade) or in recent magazines,like Guitar World even though he had not exposed it to public in those days,except for a few interviews by a few reliable writers. I just believe his own words. Brad Tolinski’s book tells us some hints that what Jimmy thought of his family life and tour life, though there are a few contradictions (or faults) in the book.

It’s very intersting that Jimmy honestly said about both lives. Whether he legally had married or not,he had obviously family life in the 70's. I'm glad to know that he seems to be still grateful to his family.

“we really only socialized when we were in the studio or out on the road. We all really came to value our family lives, especially after being on the road so much, which is how it should be. It helped create a balance in our lives. Our families helped keep us sane.” (P.97)

“Those really were the days of pure hedonism. LA, in particular was like Sodom and Gomorrah, but it always had that vibe, even going back to the golden age of Hollywood in the twenties and thirties. You just ate it up and drank it down. And why not?” (P.161)

Edited December 18, 2012 by Alice75

[Alice75]

Thanks. I liked the "Charolette"! Amazing that the journalist dared to ask such personal questions to Jimmy so bluntly. It looks more like a police questioning than a press interview! Frankly in his position I would have showed him or her the exit door fast...

This is Jimmy’s interview by Nick Kent in 1976. You would learn only a little about him around these days. I can’t put the link. Perhaps we might pay for that site now.

Jimmy Page: Shy Rock Star Almost Unburdens Himself By Nick Kent

(Originally Published: 04/01/1977, Creem)

I've known Led Zeppelin professionally for probably 4 years now, starting back in the winter of 1972 when I was sent out on the road with them only to find myself ending up in a fairly ludicrous but nonetheless highly tense argument with Jimmy Page in the dressing-room on the very first night.

I immediately took a dislike to the band personally, but found myself so blown apart by their live gigs of that time, that whatever vitriol I might have harbored from such unfortunate encounters was dissipated into instant "rave-review" time when it came to actually putting pen to paper. The resulting piece was, in retrospect, a quite horrendous piece of well-meaning gush, the memory of which I'd prefer buried for an eternity but anyway...

For some unknown reason, thereafter I became accepted by the band and co., and recall one night, maybe six months later, running into Page by chance and spending a most enjoyable evening ensconsed in informal chitchat with the gent.

From then on, I seemed to run into the guitarist and other members of his band regularly and always found them to be thoroughly pleasant human beings, particularly Peter Grant and Page, who both seemed to me the very paradox of the images that had been served up by certain factions of the press, i.e. Grant, the fearsomely uncouth semi-gangster type, and Page, the hedonistically depraved Crowley fanatic, scourge of the groupies and all-purpose heavy-duty evil presence.

The main aspect of Page the interview subject that has always become apparent to me as soon as the trusty cassette is turned on, has been the man's overriding reticence, his distinct fear of actually being probed for copy, his at times desperate concern for privacy at-all-costs in regard to topics that seem so totally innocent and lightweight to the on-looker.

I've been slotted in at the end of what appears to have been a day of fairly gruelling gang-bang interview scheduling. As the photographer and I enter the Swan Song offices, a Japanese journalist is being shown out, and an American writer is about to be led up for his shot, while the guy from the London Evening Standard is still waiting his half-an-hour's worth. After an hour we're led up to the interview room to encounter a Page obviously torn and frayed by the day's verbal duties. He's been left rather unsettled by the last caller.

Well, nothing much has changed in that respect -- if anything Page has become even more reticent, constantly checking himself in the middle of what seems the most mild utterance, to work out whether what he is saying could jeopardize some aspect of the band's communal year-away-as-working-tax-exiles. A single question, for example, referring to the number of times the four band members have come together for whatever reason in the past year, takes Page a good seven minutes of checking and counter-checking before the answer can be given satisfactorily.

"I just don't trust those sort of writers. You never know what they're after. It's useless trying to explain Crowley and all those things to them..." His manner is wired-up, slightly uncomfortable to behold.

The first topic, of course, is The Song Remains The Same. It's a late Wednesday afternoon, and I've worked it out to strict 50-50 odds as to whether Page and the Swan Song reps will have got hold of the NME issue with my highly derogatory review of the film. No one has, in fact, so I'm safe in one respect. Still I decide to voice a number of my criticisms straight off.

I didn't really like it. I don't think it did you as a band, justice.

"How do you mean?" Page is coiled up, listening, nervy.

I think you undersold yourselves, I say, quickly attempting to counter the vagueness of the accusation, by zeroing in on the live album and voicing my dissatisfactions there. Before I can specify, Page leaps in.

"Ah, well that's just one of those unfortunate things, because if you start picking that apart... well first and foremost it's a soundtrack album and as such simply has to be available. As for an actual live album... well my idea, prior to Robert's accident which dictated virtually everything we've done since was to do a chronological affair with tracks dating back to 1970 with "Communication Breakdown," say, and going through the various incarnations right up to tracks we'll be doing on the next tour for Presence."

That would be great, I mutter. "It will be great," Page counters.

But to return to the film; Page is fairly defensive about it, concerning himself with those aspects that have to be taken into account to gain what he considers the fullest appreciation of the affair. "There's a lot of points to be weighed up. It's a musical, yes, but it's also a documentary. For example, the robbery ...you've got to take that into account... the fact, for example, that when we were onstage playing those gigs, half the band actually knew about it and half the band didn't know. So the playing isn't totally... Plus it was right at the end of a tour."

"You're saying we're underselling ourselves, O.K., well we weren't going to put anything about the robbery in, but then again it is relevant. It's all pretty honest, I think."

Further points worth taking into consideration concern the minimal amount of footage actually shot during the tour. Out of a fairly mammoth U.S. tour, only one date in Baltimore and two nights at Madison Square Garden were filmed. Backstage footage was coincidental with the concerts.

"Oh, forget about it as a film of the tour! As regards the gig, well it's not a terribly good night and it's not terribly bad. Certainly not a magic one but not... tragic."

The fantasy sequences were all filmed some three months after the tour itself had been finished in the late summer of '73. Bonham's scene seems to be Page's favorite, and when discussing the amount of thought that went behind the conceptualizing of each member's fantasy, Page is at least candid.

"Let's just say that when we weren't viewing the thing as a tax write-off (laughs), there was as much commitment and dedication involved as goes into anything we do."

"There's no point in us making excuses. The facts are there to be understood."

"I just see it... it's not a great film... just a reasonably honest statement of where we were at that particular time. That's all it can be, really."

"I mean, it's still very difficult to view even now, particularly with this build-up. I'd like to see it in a year's time, just to see how it stands up."

"Because it's extremely relevant to the band, because simply, for us, it sums up a certain era."

"In a nut-shell, the film sums up an era when the band finished its sets with 'Whole Lotta Love.' That doesn't mean anything now, does it? It's only the Top of the Pops signature tune, now, anyway (laughs)..."

On the tour following the '73 Song Remains The Same epic the band virtually dropped all reference to "Whole Lotta Love," except for the occasional few bars thrown in at encore-time. Instead the finale was given over to "Stairway to Heaven."

So things are looking healthy again for Zeppelin after what can only be described as a fairly disorientating year for the collective, as well as certain individuals within the group, it appears, Page being paramount amongst them.

Again there is great hesitancy regarding the subject's talking about the year's more intimate troubles. The past I2 months, though, have seen Page return to Charlotte, his old lady of longstanding and the mother of his daughter, Scarlet, and therefore a more domestically ordered existence.

"The troubles... well for a start, Charlotte's been very ill but that's something one doesn't need to go into, really, only that...if you've been with someone for a long time and they get ill, then you immediately have that responsibility ...I don't really need to say anymore."

Page seems a changed man from the days that seemed to reach their hiatus during the '74 tour of America. Then, the guitarist, at once unattached, was staying up for days and nights on end in some kind of mortal combat with the forces of Nature, pushing virtually everything to the limits and cultivating some potentially bad habits in the process.

According to Page, though, the pressures I witnessed him testing himself on back then were nothing to what went down during the recording of Presence in Munich.

"That was the ultimate test of that whole... lifestyle. I mean, that was 18 hours a day at a real intensity every day. You just plunge in and, I mean, you don't start thinking about three meals a day."

Presence, by the way, is Page's favorite Zeppelin album, "Or at least the one which, when I think back on the sessions, I consider the most fulfilling. I mean, but maybe that's a rather bad yardstick to use for what one's favorite album is. Every record had had its moments."

So what happened after Presence's completion?

"Well, as far as I was concerned, it was a case of sorting out a year's problems in... say, a month, and not finding the whole process as simple as that. I mean, suddenly I had time to look around and suddenly I became aware of certain people who'd been taking incredible advantage of me in the year I'd been away."

Page shies away from going into any great details but makes mention of a couple whom he let stay at his main home of residence and who, apparently, immediately "assumed the identity of me and Charlotte. That got very ugly."

And then there is the case of one Kenneth Anger.

Two days after Page had returned from Switzerland where he'd been producing a lavish total-percussion track dreamed up and executed by John Bonham (which Page reckons is a cert for inclusion on the next Zep album), he was faced with a copy of a British rock paper carrying possibly the most snide vitriolic attack in recent years to appear in a music periodical. Anger's beef was that Page hadn't finished the soundtrack to his movie, Lucifer Rising. Anger made all sorts of wild accusations, implying that Page was possibly having drug problems ("Page's affair with The White Lady"). amongst other things, which for starters is complete fabrication.

Page, in fact, almost brightens to the thought of putting his side of the Anger epic into print.

"I must start by saying that I've lost a hell of a lot of respect for him. I mean, the level of pure bitchiness he was working on...at one point he was writing silly little letters to everybody he thought I knew so that they would naturally bring it up in conversation when they saw me.

"This whole thing about 'Anger's Curse'; they were just these silly little letters. God it was all so pathetic. I mean, I've got to get my side across now because it's just gone too far. Hell, you know that I did the film music and you know when I did it, so you must have thought it odd when Anger came out against me like that, right?"

(Page in fact rented a rough cut of Lucifer Rising and showed it to an informal gathering, yours truly included, complete with his soundtrack, in L.A. early in I975.)

"Well, he's implying that he'd received nothing from me, which is totally untrue. I gave him everything in plenty of time, OK."

What Page also claims is that he helped Anger personally locate a screening/editing room in London and that Peter Grant was also interested in maybe investing something into the completion of the film, and offered him accommodation in London's chic Gloucester Place Mews.

"So OK, I'm a mug! Cos one day this whole thing just blew up. And that's all I knew about it. This bitchiness is just an extension of Anger's Hollywood Babylon."

Anger had apparently been angling for a further backer for the film, Page claims. "Now whether he thought in his mind that he was indebted to me somehow and that he felt he had to get me off his back I don't know. I mean I didn't start hassling. I just wanted to see the bloke finish the bloody film, I mean its whole history is so absurd, anyway. I just assumed that it was unfinished because he was such a perfectionist and he'd always end up going over his budgets. All I can say is: Anger's time was all that was needed to finish that film. Nothing else!"

Anger also made allegations that his belongings had been held -- impounded by Page and sundry cohorts.

"What a snide bastard. His stuff was just all over the place and I just got some roadies to get it all together for him. Christ, he even turned that one round against me.

"I mean, I had a lot of respect for him. As an occultist he was definitely in the vanguard. I just don't know what he's playing at. I'm totally bemused and really disgusted. It's truly pathetic. I mean, he is powerless -- totally. The only damage he can do is with his tongue."

Page has somehow relaxed now, the saga of Anger having been completed (and there are more details but enough is perhaps enough for now).

"So much of this year has been taken up with petty little time-consuming things. It's not been a static period so much as an unsatisfying one. There have been so many niggling little things to take care of -- things so petty readers would never believe Jimmy Page rock guitarist would need to involve himself with (laughs)."

A final shrug: "It's changing now though. I mean, playing live -- that whole stimulus -- has been missing, and Christ, when we did that first rehearsal it just clicked all over again. I just feel that I've cleaned out a load of problems and now I'm ready to get back in the fray, so to speak.

"Something epic is going to happen musically anyway. That's what I feel. This next tour... you'll see."

— Republished: 12/19/2008

Edited December 17, 2012 by Alice75

[pj040403]

Thanks Alice, very interesting interview. What strikes me is that, for a guy so private and usually prudent, he could also be (by his own admission) very naive, and as a result has been screwed big time by bad people. I am also thinking here about the various things stolen by people he invited to his home. And he is somehow lucky he had his wildest period in the 70s: nowadays with cameras-equipped cell phones, YouTube, FaceBook, Twitter etc... whatever he did back then would be all other the place and, even as a big fan, it's stuff that I would not necessarily want to know about!

[Alice75]

Thanks Alice, very interesting interview. What strikes me is that, for a guy so private and usually prudent, he could also be (by his own admission) very naive, and as a result has been screwed big time by bad people. I am also thinking here about the various things stolen by people he invited to his home. And he is somehow lucky he had his wildest period in the 70s: nowadays with cameras-equipped cell phones, YouTube, FaceBook, Twitter etc... whatever he did back then would be all other the place and, even as a big fan, it's stuff that I would not necessarily want to know about!

You are welcome, pj040403,and I agree with you Jimmy was lucky he had wildest period in the 70’s (not only him but also other many rock stars though ) and I also don’t need to know their debauchery from those days. Personally I consider that those acts were just for stress release from hard works on the road. Did any of LZ members break up with their then partners because of those acts in heyday? None.

The reason why I think Brad Tolinski's book is wonderful is that he avoided this sort of things.

Brad said in an interview of rokin’on (Japanese rock magazine) December issue interviewed by a Japanese writer Ryo Uchida that Jimmy told him nothing about Light and Shade book when they met in NYC in October.

This is a part of Brad’s interview from rokin’on.

Q (Uchida) : Has Jimmy Page read this book? You worry about his impression about it, do you?

A (Tolinski): Yes, it seems Jimmy did not read my book until recently. And it seems he did not want to talk with me until he has read this book, so I didn’t know if I could meet him the other day when he came to NYC to attend the premire show of Celebration Day. After all we spent together for a long time and we saw Joe Walsh concert. Jimmy told me nothing about Light and Shade book. I guess perhaps he did not want to tell me that he liked it. (laugh)

[SteveAJones]

The official timeline entry for Led Zeppelin's January 31, 1975 concert at Olympia in Detroit does not include any newspaper reviews,

and I was not aware of any in existence until today. However, here's my latest finding and though it is a negative review it is a review nonetheless:

The Ann Arbor Sun (Ann Arbor, MI), February 14, 1975

Perhaps worth noting there is an excellent, positive feature on this concert published in the April 1975 issue of Creem magazine, a Detroit-based publication sold nationally for many years. The article, 'Led Zep Zip Through Motown', was written by Jaan Uhelski.

[Rock Historian]

I'm going to dig through my collection and see if I have this concert. Curious to see if his "review" is accurate on any level.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Rock Historian

[Led Dirigible]

Wow. That is a REALLY negative review. Especially the part about Jones' piano solo. I don't understand how anyone could say that! I'll bet "Chris McCabe" couldn't play piano worth a crud.

Here's Trampled Underfoot from that show:

It's not great but not horrible. Page is obviously having trouble playing with a broken finger.

Thanks to conneyfogle for the video.

[Shadecatcher]

I'd like to think you're just putting me on, but I'm sure someone else with the book can substantiate the claim you are make here. So assuming this is in fact a direct quote from page 147, I'm not quite sure what to make of it. Perhaps the "divorce" to which he refers was on an emotional level as opposed to legally speaking? As I said, it was a rough patch for them; this being a public forum I won't get into some of the uglier specifics. The other thing about the quote is he sort of glosses over having gone to Morocco and Spain with Robert the following month, which was not insignificant in that the lyrics to Kashmir were written during their travels. Robert's accident wasn't until August 4, 1975.

I have that book and can substantiate that Page said he had just gone through a divorce. I didn't think anything of it when I read that because I didn't know anything about the timing of his marriages or serious relationships at the time. You got the impression he was involved with the groupie women along that timeline somewhere as well. Anyway, it was strange in the book where it said he went off with Robert and family to Greece, then left for Sicily to see some property apparently leaving his daughter with Robert and his wife as she was in the car crash. I think this was during the time they had to stay out of the UK due to Tax situation. Reference to daughter being left with Plant & wife and no mention of Charlotte struck me as a little odd.

[Joe Bloggs]

I have that book and can substantiate that Page said he had just gone through a divorce. I didn't think anything of it when I read that because I didn't know anything about the timing of his marriages or serious relationships at the time. You got the impression he was involved with the groupie women along that timeline somewhere as well. Anyway, it was strange in the book where it said he went off with Robert and family to Greece, then left for Sicily to see some property apparently leaving his daughter with Robert and his wife as she was in the car crash. I think this was during the time they had to stay out of the UK due to Tax situation. Reference to daughter being left with Plant & wife and no mention of Charlotte struck me as a little odd.

That can be explained by the fact they were travelling in two cars. Charlotte was in the car with Maureen's sister, following behind Robert's & Maureen's car. It was Charlotte who got help and contacted Richard Cole back at Swan Song in London to notify head office of the accident.

[Shadecatcher]

That can be explained by the fact they were travelling in two cars. Charlotte was in the car with Maureen's sister, following behind Robert's & Maureen's car. It was Charlotte who got help and contacted Richard Cole back at Swan Song in London to notify head office of the accident.

Oh, didn't know that. Glad the child had her mum there - would have been very scary for her.

[SteveAJones]

I'm going to dig through my collection and see if I have this concert. Curious to see if his "review" is accurate on any level.

I have 'Detroit: Just About Back' - a double-cd release on the Cobra label - but it's in long-term storage.

I'm curious if Robert really attributed Jimmy's injury to an elevator door as the reviewer claimed, because according to Richard Cole in his book 'Stairway to Heaven: Led Zeppelin Uncensored' Jimmy's left-hand ring finger was crushed in a closing train door he tried to hold open for a passenger at Victoria Rail Station in London. If Richard is correct, the incident probably happened sometime after their Brussels concert on January 12th and when they flew from London to New York on January 15th 1975. It's well known Jimmy

started performing with what he called his "three finger technique" when they began their 1975 North American tour.

[SteveAJones]

Anyway, it was strange in the book where it said he went off with Robert and family to Greece, then left for Sicily to see some property apparently leaving his daughter with Robert and his wife as she was in the car crash. I think this was during the time they had to stay out of the UK due to Tax situation. Reference to daughter being left with Plant & wife and no mention of Charlotte struck me as a little odd.

Joe Bloggs has posted Charlotte was following in a second car but I don't agree. If that can be proven or a credible source cited I am certainly interested to hear it. It may have been Robert's brother-in-law & sister-in-law. I do know Jimmy & Scarlet had joined Robert and his family, and Robert knew Phil May of The Pretty Things would also be on holiday in Rhodes during this time.

I can tell you the property Jimmy went to see in Sicily was Aleister Crowley's Abbey of Thelema in Cefalu.

[SteveAJones]

"Abbey Of Thelema" (1978) Gillan/Towns

Originally on the 1978 Japanese release "Gillan", this was later re-released in 1980 as part of the "For Gillan Fans Only" bonus disc, free with the first 15000 copies of the "Glory Road" album.

Line up:

Vocals: Ian Gillan

Keyboards/flute: Colin Towns

Guitars: Steve Byrd

Bass: John McCoy

Drums: Liam Genockey*

Film clips are from Benjamin Christensen's 1929 release, "Häxan".

[Old Shep]

If Richard is correct, the incident probably happened sometime after their Brussels concert on January 12th and when they flew from London to New York on January 15th 1975. It's well known Jimmy

started performing with what he called his "three finger technique" when they began their 1975 North American tour.

I always thought it was generally accepted that D&C was dropped from the set (and partly replaced by easier to play tunes such as WTLB & HMMT) as a result of the injury? In which case, either that's untrue, or the injury happened before Brussels.

[SteveAJones]

I always thought it was generally accepted that D&C was dropped from the set (and partly replaced by easier to play tunes such as WTLB & HMMT) as a result of the injury? In which case, either that's untrue, or the injury happened before Brussels.

That is correct, and looking further into the Brussels performance on January 12, 1975 come to find out 'The Song Remains The Same' and the solo during 'The Wanton Song suffered on account of the injury, and 'Dazed And Confused' was not performed that night at all.

Though no recordings or reviews from Rotterdam on January 11, 1975 exist, it's safe to assume that show was similarly affected as we know for a fact the injury occured in London.

So when did the injury occur? Apparently sometime after Page and Jones joined Bad Company and Duster Bennett for an encore jam on 'Rock Me Baby' at Rainbow Theatre in London (December 19 or 21 1975) but prior to departing for Rotterdam in January.

[And You Know How It Is?]

The Ann Arbor Sun (Ann Arbor, MI), February 14, 1975

Cash me In? (he really meant Sick Again). Wonder how he came up with this title? After all, the song's name doesn't appear anywhere in the lyrics, and Robert usually didn't introduce the song's title when he finished and welcomed the audience for the first time throughout the '75 tour.

Can't completely bash the review though, after all, Jimmy is swigging from the Jack Daniels bottle in the infamous back stage photo from this show! And we know Robert's voice was shot from the flu. More surprising would be JPJ and Bonzo not performing up to par. Then again, I haven't heard this show, so maybe it was bad.

[Geezer]

Does footage of the band playing Heartbreaker at the Royal Albert Hall exist?

Edited January 20, 2013 by Geezer