Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[stonefreelee]

Questions pertaining to soundboard Page/Plant tour videos came up in a Ramble On thread. The inquiry was does each of the Page/Plant concerts which were filmed for the overhead screens exist in their archive and did each camera have a recorder inside? This answer via private email with consent to post from Terry Stephenson:

P/P tour video presentation was done by a company out of San Francisco called Nocturne Video. They had about 5 camera men I think that each had a camera with a video cable that fed back to the video live-switch mixer. These cameras did NOT have tapes recording in the cameras, they acted as CAMERAS, not CAMCORDERS.

Each of these video signals was fed to the live-switch mixer where the director, Paul Becher, was directing his crew and choosing which camera feed to switch to at that time. The resulting image was shown on the big video screen, and at the same time this live-switch video mix was also being recorded on a Betacam deck, archiving the final product for P/P to have. The soundboard audio feed was also being fed into this record deck as well.

Every single P/P show was archived on tape from the live-video/audio mix, recorded to Betacam video tape. Every one of these tapes was sent back to the Nochturne Video office in SF and stored in their vault. On occasion P/P called for certain tapes to be pulled out for news promo releases, etc...this is how the pro-shot Irvine '95, Hartford '95, etc. got out.

The O2 concert was done differently; they had over 20 cameras going. There were 2 separate crews; one crew was dedicated to the live-switch mix shown on the video screen for the fans to see (as described above), and we've seen the result of this live mix with the sample clip of Black Dog that they released for the news.

The second video crew was shooting for the purpose of making/editing a DVD release later. Each of these cameras was recording HD digital tape, what is called "an iso tape" or isolated tape source that a video editor can study and pick shots from in post production.

In the case of EC '75 I think the 3 or 4 camera crew was doing both a live feed to the video screen and recording tape in the cameras at the same time. I remember reading that much of those tapes were not usable after all these years. Jimmy had the tapes restored through a process called "baking."

So, in summation, the audio and video for every P/P show was recorded?

[jabe]

It's been corroborated to a degree by concert-goers, one of whom is a forum member.

In regards to Robert's memory, any further confirmation of his 1981 Honeydripper gigs, among others, is far more likely to be recalled and provided by you!

Don't mean to be rude or meddling,but could a fraction of this be expounded upon?

The door is cracked open a bit here.

If it's not cool,we understand.

[stonefreelee]

YET ANOTHER 1969 LED ZEPPELIN CONCERT CONFIRMED

ICE PALACE in LAS VEGAS August 11, 1969

The Initial Confirmation I received in response to my inquiry via private correspondence:

(addresses omitted)

Hiya Steve;

PINKINY CANANDY didn't open for Led Zeppelin - we were second on the bill. A local band opened the show, then Pinkiny Canandy (Michael Chain) and then Zeppelin. PINKINY CANANDY: Michael Chain lead singer/songwriter guitarist (original lead singer of the KNACK) drums - Doug Altman (played with Ricky Nelson, Jackson Brown, Linda Rondstat, Danny O'Keefe) bass -Mike Rice (formerly with Merry Go Round) lead guitar - Gary Kato (formerly with Merry Go Round). Any other questions you have I'll be happy to answer. I remember that concert well.

Michael Chain

www.michaelchain.com

Original Thread:

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com//index.php?s...ic=4716&hl=

Wouldn't this have already been known by the zep powers that be? How have the site creators came up with "timeline"? Did they not have imput from the band members themselves? Is this really a new revelation?

[zosodude13]

Hey Steve,

It's been a while, but I'm just wondering if there has been any progress of the "ITTOD Cover Mystery"? its jsut been a while without any updates... thanks in advance!

[sam_webmaster]

Unfortunately, there aren't any accurate official records of the early tour itinerary. For obvious reasons, the band members don't remember every city/date they played nearly forty years ago. Periodically, evidence of a "new" date surfaces - In this case, it's the first time evidence of this show has come to light.

Quote: Wouldn't this have already been known by the zep powers that be? How have the site creators came up with "timeline"? Did they not have imput from the band members themselves? Is this really a new revelation?

[stonefreelee]

Unfortunately, there aren't any accurate official records of the early tour itinerary. For obvious reasons, the band members don't remember every city/date they played nearly forty years ago. Periodically, evidence of a "new" date surfaces - In this case, it's the first time evidence of this show has come to light.

Quote: Wouldn't this have already been known by the zep powers that be? How have the site creators came up with "timeline"? Did they not have imput from the band members themselves? Is this really a new revelation?

thank you for your reply, I really had no idea...I guess I thought these things were recorded for posterity's sake...

Edited April 8, 2008 by stonefreelee

[SteveAJones]

So, in summation, the audio and video for every P/P show was recorded?

That's a sweeping generalization which may not hold up under closer scrutiny. I believe

Nocturne Video's tour production support may have been limited to the North American

dates only. I can get clarification on that. I do know I attended many European dates

which were not documented by a full camera crew and screens were not present, for

example St. Austell 7/12/95. However, they may have employed the use of a single cam

mounted on the soundboard, as I'd seen John Paul Jones do on his 1999 European tour.

[SteveAJones]

Don't mean to be rude or meddling,but could a fraction of this be expounded upon?

The door is cracked open a bit here. If it's not cool,we understand.

Sure. Can you clarify what you believe requires expounding upon?

[stonefreelee]

That's a sweeping generalization which may not hold up under closer scrutiny. I believe

Nocturne Video's tour production support may have been limited to the North American

dates only. I can get clarification on that. I do know I attended many European dates

which were not documented by a full camera crew and screens were not present, for

example St. Austell 7/12/95. However, they may have employed the use of a single cam

mounted on the soundboard, as I'd seen John Paul Jones do on his 1999 European tour.

In clarification, every show that Nocturne participated in probably has a full audio/video recording?

[SteveAJones]

Hey Steve,

It's been awhile, but I'm just wondering if there has been any progress on the "ITTOD Cover Mystery"? its just been a while without any updates... thanks in advance!

Your original inquiry is a legitimate question. Unfortunately, the right answer may not be

known outside of the band members or their representatives, in which case resolution

will take some time. Rest assured it has not been forgotten!

[SteveAJones]

In clarification, every show Nocturne participated in probably has a full audio/video recording?

Yes. Nocturne would have been obligated by contract to provide that service. Bear in mind, as I understand it, the mastertapes in the Nocturne vault only contain whatever was shown on the screens. This is to say the video engineer at the board "selected" the camera feed he wanted displayed at any given time and that final "mix" as shown on the screens is what was recorded on the mastertape. The individual cameras themselves were not equipped with a record capability.

[stonefreelee]

Hey Steve,

It's been a while, but I'm just wondering if there has been any progress of the "ITTOD Cover Mystery"? its jsut been a while without any updates... thanks in advance!

Just wondering, can you explain what the "mystery" is? I do remember it had seven (i believe) different covers. Does anyone remember this: I heard on the local radio station (probably that day, 20 Aug '79) that if you took a damp sponge to the inside sleeve (you know, the ashtray, drink on table, etc) it would then change from black/white to color. Strange but true. I did it to mine, and sure enough---there it was: color. Was there any reason for this besides just something extra to do?

Edited April 8, 2008 by stonefreelee

[SteveAJones]

Coverdale/Page Jam with Poison

University of Nevada - Lawlor Events Center

May 14 1991

I've had a good exchange with tahoezep who attended this obscure jam mentioned earlier in the thread. Coverdale/Page had joined Poison during the encore and they allegedly performed 'Rock And Roll', 'The Rover', and 'Stairway To Heaven'. I asked tahoezep if he recalled those songs? Supposedly Jimmy fell onstage as soon as he walked on, so I asked about that. I went on to mention a few days prior, on May 9th, Jimmy attended an FM 96 Rock Party in Reno. He was seated with DJ Max Volume and signed autographs while drinking whiskey. I asked if he recalled that occasion.

This from tahoezep:

My only encounter with David and Jimmy was sometime around the '91 period when they both guest appeared during the end of a Poison set at the Lawlor Events Center in Reno.

I was there as part of a birthday bash for the wife of one of my good friends at the Lake. It was a great surprise, but honestly a not very impressive performance. If I remember, someone from the band was also celebrating a birthday and it looked like Jimmy and David had a head start on the celebrations!

More from tahoezep:

'Rock and Roll' seems right, I don't recall the Rover but definitely remember Jimmy having great difficulty starting Stairway to Heaven and making mention that "he forgot how it goes" or something to that effect.

I did not see what caused the fall but he clearly stumbled on stage upon his entrance. Both of the above mentioned acts contributed greatly to the belief that Jimmy wasn't "firing on all cylinders" at the show.

After thinking about it more - I believe it was C.C. Deville's birthday.

I certainly remember Max Volume but did not know him nor am I familiar with the May 9th FM 96 Rock party.

Am amazed at the depth of your knowledge of these events.

Thanks for sharing.

[stonefreelee]

Yes. Nocturne would have been obligated by contract to provide that service. Bear in mind, as I understand it, the mastertapes in the Nocturne vault only contain whatever was shown on the screens. This is to say the video engineer at the board "selected" the camera feed he wanted displayed at any given time and that final "mix" as shown on the screens is what was recorded on the mastertape. The individual cameras themselves were not equipped with a record capability.

Right on, Steve. Thanks for your promt, info filled reply. It seems odd (to me, anyway) that Nocturne would have the tapes in their vaults. Would the images contained therein not be property of the band? Also, (and I probably already know the answer) is it possible that any of this footage will see the light of day?

[SteveAJones]

Just wondering, can you explain what the "mystery" is? I do remember it had seven (i believe) different covers. Does anyone remember this: I heard on the local radio station (probably that day, 20 Aug '79) that if you took a damp sponge to the inside sleeve (you know, the ashtray, drink on table, etc) it would then change from black/white to color. Strange but true. I did it to mine, and sure enough---there it was: color. Was there any reason for this besides just something extra to do?

There were six covers, each depicting the same bar scene from different point of view.

He wanted to know why a particular cover was selected for the cd release. The answer seems obvious - because only one can be chosen - but perhaps there is more to it. I've

heard some crazy theories before about why there are six covers, six angles, six...

The water-color inner sleeves sprung from the incomparable imagination of Hipgnosis. It

is a bar scene and drinks are often spilled on bars so why not the inner sleeve? If there's more to this someone else can feel free to chime in.

The brown paper bag was possibly a band idea. The music was not fashionable (In Through The Out Door...get it) so it was thought why not put it out in a brown paper bag. Robert has related the joke that in this way people who came to it while flipping through their record collections could exclaim: "Oh, no that's not really there. It's just a brown paper bag!". However, the bag does conceal which of the six covers (each was

labelled on the spine either A B C D E F) the record-buyer had just purchased so it did

serve a purpose beyond party humor.

[Stargroves Tangie]

Does anyone remember this: I heard on the local radio station (probably that day, 20 Aug '79) that if you took a damp sponge to the inside sleeve (you know, the ashtray, drink on table, etc) it would then change from black/white to color. Strange but true. I did it to mine, and sure enough---there it was: color. Was there any reason for this besides just something extra to do?

When I was a kid in the early/mid 70s, there were books (the size of coloring books) that the pages in them did the same exact thing- turn colors when water was applied. I used a small paintbrush to do this. After I got ITTOD I used the same brush (which I had saved for some reason) to color the inner sleeve.

[SteveAJones]

It seems odd (to me, anyway) that Nocturne would have the tapes in their vaults. Would the images contained therein not be property of the band? Also, (and I probably already know the answer) is it possible that any of this footage will see the light of day?

I was surprised to learn their location as well. The band (Jimmy) or their label may have taken possession of them in the intervening years but as I understand it that's where they were. One of the reasons Nocturne kept them is for the occasional promo clips they would be commissioned to provide, normally for news reports and telecasts. In this way, some pro-shot footage clips have been released (New Orleans 3/11/95, Detroit 4/1/95, East Rutherford 4/7/95, Irvine Meadows 10/3/95, Hartford 10/21/95).

[stonefreelee]

There were six covers, each depicting the same bar scene from different point of view.

He wanted to know why a particular cover was selected for the cd release. The answer seems obvious - because only one can be chosen - but perhaps there is more to it. I've

heard some crazy theories before about why there are six covers, six angles, six...

The water-color inner sleeves sprung from the incomparable imagination of Hipgnosis. It

is a bar scene and drinks are often spilled on bars so why not the inner sleeve? If there's more to this someone else can feel free to chime in.

The brown paper bag was possibly a band idea. The music was not fashionable (In Through The Out Door...get it) so it was thought why not put it out in a brown paper bag. Robert has related the joke that in this way people who came to it while flipping through their record collections could exclaim: "Oh, no that's not really there. It's just a brown paper bag!". However, the bag does conceal which of the six covers (each was

labelled on the spine either A B C D E F) the record-buyer had just purchased so it did

serve a purpose beyond party humor.

Cool, thanks again...did not know about the lettering on the spines though. I never even thought about the "cd cover" for said album! Last time I purchased that was with all the studio albums that came in the box...thanks!

[Cactus]

Right on, Steve. Thanks for your promt, info filled reply. It seems odd (to me, anyway) that Nocturne would have the tapes in their vaults. Would the images contained therein not be property of the band? Also, (and I probably already know the answer) is it possible that any of this footage will see the light of day?

It's not uncommon in film/video production for the production house/laboratory to keep the masters in their vault. In this case, providing a clean, controlled and safe environment for storage of the tapes was probably part of the contract.

It doesn't mean that the band/record company don't have ownership of all rights associated with the recordings, just that the production house is taking care of the physical tapes.

[stonefreelee]

I was surprised to learn their location as well. The band (Jimmy) or their label may have taken possession of them in the intervening years but as I understand it that's where they were. One of the reasons Nocturne kept them is for the occasional promo clips they would be commissioned to provide, normally for news reports and telecasts. In this way, some pro-shot footage clips have been released (New Orleans 3/11/95, Detroit 4/1/95, East Rutherford 4/7/95, Irvine Meadows 10/3/95, Hartford 10/21/95).

Some years back, not precisely sure when (99-2005) I saw an add in RS magazine (in the back) where you could purchase "rare" videos by mainstream acts...this is where i purchased a video of Knebworth-all 3 and a half hours! It was the worst copy of a copy of a copy of a copy I have ever seen. The point is, this 'outfit' subsequently sent me a mailer with lists of other "acts" etc...and included in the list was Page/Plant...this is why I have wondered about this. Is it safe to assume that some Nocturne employee'

s weren't the most honorable? I just dont see anyone sneaking in a camcorder in those days and not be noticed. And the shows listed were quite numerous...

[stonefreelee]

It's not uncommon in film/video production for the production house/laboratory to keep the masters in their vault. In this case, providing a clean, controlled and safe environment for storage of the tapes was probably part of the contract.

It doesn't mean that the band/record company don't have ownership of all rights associated with the recordings, just that the production house is taking care of the physical tapes.

yeah, that makes sense, actually.

[stonefreelee]

When I was a kid in the early/mid 70s, there were books (the size of coloring books) that the pages in them did the same exact thing- turn colors when water was applied. I used a small paintbrush to do this. After I got ITTOD I used the same brush (which I had saved for some reason) to color the inner sleeve.

oh for the days of "click-clacks" and the day-glo things you could put on your bicycle spokes (with said bike sporting a 'banana seat!)

[SteveAJones]

I just dont see anyone sneaking in a camcorder in those days and not be noticed. And the shows listed were quite numerous...

There are dozens of Page/Plant tour videos in circulation but the vast majority were filmed by camcorders in the audience. It's not as difficult as you may believe. So far

as I know only one or two complete pro-shot Nocturne shows entered circulation but

that's inevitible, really.

Edited April 8, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

In Through The Out Door Double Album?

This inquiry via PM from LedZep4Ever (Steve Sparks)

I can't remember now, but I believe I either read and/or heard that "In Through the Out Door" was to have been a double album? I think the timeline that I read and/or heard this was between the 1979 release of ITTOD and shortly sometime after CODA was released

since, basically, side 2 of CODA are all outtakes from ITTOD.

Can you possibly confirm any of this?

Thanks for your time,

Steve Sparks (LedZep4Ever)

I think I can completely disprove this idea of a double album.

They were on hiatus from August 1977 to May 1978 to allow Robert time to grieve the

loss of his son.

When they reconvened in May 1978 at Clearwell Castle in Forest-of-the-Dean they had no new material aside from 'Carouselambra' so for the most part they only jammed on medley's. A considerable amount of time elapsed before they got together again.

On October 13th 1978 they reconvened at Ezyhire Studios in London to write and rehearse new material to be recorded by the end of the year.

On November 6th 1978 they departed for Stockholm for a series of Monday thru Friday recording sessions at Polar Studios.

On November 14th Ozone Baby was recorded. Wearing And Tearing on November 21st.

On December 16th 1978 they returned from Stockholm for the holiday break.

Ultimately, they had ten tracks mixed and ready by January 1979.

In February 1979 the mixing sessions were done at Polar Studios.

On August 14th 1979, ITTOD was released.

Only three of the eight tracks on CODA are ITTOD outtakes: 'Ozone Baby', 'Darlene' and 'Wearing And Tearing'. I've already shown at least two of these three was recorded in

the limited time they had available. I would bet all three were but have not confirmed the date for 'Darlene' so I do not make that claim.

In Through The Out Door only contains 7 songs (42:25) so they could have added more had they wanted to. In my opinion, the fact these three were left off the album is more indicitive the band felt they either didn't fit the mood of the album or were weak songs than that they suggest a double album was ever in the works. In early 1978, when the

rehearsals began, they were just satisfied knowing Robert would return. A double album

would have been far too ambitious given the circumstances of the time.

CODA was merely a contractual obligation to Atlantic Records. Jimmy Page had to scrounge up enough material to cobble together a final album. Otherwise, those three

songs may never have seen the light of day (at least not until the Boxed Set industry phenomenon of the '90s!)

Interestingly enough, Jimmy says the opening riff of Coverdale/Page's 'Shake My Tree' does date back to the ITTOD era. A piece of music they couldn't find a use for, so to speak. Again, had they set their mind on a double album one would think all ideas would have been incorporated.

[beatbo]

In Through The Out Door Double Album?

This inquiry via PM from LedZep4Ever (Steve Sparks)

I can't remember now, but I believe I either read and/or heard that "In Through the Out Door" was to have been a double album? I think the timeline that I read and/or heard this was between the 1979 release of ITTOD and shortly sometime after CODA was released

since, basically, side 2 of CODA are all outtakes from ITTOD.

Can you possibly confirm any of this?

Thanks for your time,

Steve Sparks (LedZep4Ever)

I think I can completely disprove this idea of a double album.

On August 14th 1979, ITTOD was released.

Only three of the eight tracks on CODA are ITTOD outtakes: 'Ozone Baby', 'Darlene' and 'Wearing And Tearing'. I've already shown at least two of these three was recorded in

the limited time they had available. I would bet all three were but have not confirmed the date for 'Darlene' so I do not make that claim.

In Through The Out Door only contains 7 songs (42:25) so they could have added more had they wanted to. In my opinion, the fact these three were left off the album is more indicitive the band felt they either didn't fit the mood of the album or were weak songs than that they suggest a double album was ever in the works. In early 1978, when the

rehearsals began, they were just satisfied knowing Robert would return. A double album

would have been far too ambitious given the circumstances of the time.

steve, wasn't there a glimmer of an idea being kicked around about releasing an e.p. for Knebworth with the coda/ittod outakes? i seem to remember they went so far as commisioning artwork for the sleeves but it was ultimately quashed for time constraints.