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SteveAJones

Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

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Going back to the 1975 filming subject, I read somewhere that they intended to film the late 1975 shows to replace the editing/filming disaster that the MSG shows were. When Robert's accident occurred, they had to go back to the MSG footage.

Edited by ledzepfilm

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Going back to the 1975 filming subject, I read somewhere that they intended to film the late 1975 shows to replace the editing/filming disaster that the MSG shows were. When Robert's accident occurred, they had to go back to the MSG footage.

Yes, I read it too.

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/308-zeppelin-mysteries-hosted-by-steve-a-jones/page-241#entry706187

Even though it's printed on the official album sleeve, nobody believes in that story.

Edited by Geezer

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Yes, I read it too.

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/308-zeppelin-mysteries-hosted-by-steve-a-jones/page-241#entry706187

Even though it's printed on the official album sleeve, nobody believes in that story.

The liner notes state additional filming in 1975 was discussed and you - not the liner notes - stated that filming would have been used for TSRTS project. Well, for one thing filming was done in '75 (Earls Court). For another, I simply said I don't believe any filming in '75 would've ever been incorporated into the filming done in '73.

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The Earls court was videotaped, not filmed. None of that footage could've been used for a motion picture and the band knew that. If there were discussions of additional concert filming in 1975 - more than a year before TSRTS was released - then what makes you think they wouldn't slip that footage into TSRTS, especially since the editing process proved to be so much pain in the ass?

Let's drop the issue. I don't think there's anything to discuss anymore - the filming didn't happen.

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The Earls court was videotaped, not filmed. None of that footage could've been used for a motion picture and the band knew that. If there were discussions of additional concert filming in 1975 - more than a year before TSRTS was released - then what makes you think they wouldn't slip that footage into TSRTS, especially since the editing process proved to be so much pain in the ass?

Just to be clear, the Earls Court concerts were filmed with 2 inch 16-track videotapes (not the common VHS format folks :-) ) and I submit to you their inclusion in 'Led Zeppelin DVD' (2003) and public screenings associated with that release prove beyond a reasonable doubt the suitability of the raw footage for a motion picture release. Granted modern technology cleaned them up quite a bit.

My point has been though at some point there probably was discussion of additional filming in '75, it seems to me it became unnecessary to do so once the alternative approach of fantasy sequences and reenactments were completed. As you pointed out they performed dozens of shows in '75 prior to Robert's accident therefore if they had wanted to undertake additional filming in '75 they did have ample opportunity to do so. I'm simply saying it didn't happen not because it was never discussed but because it was no longer a priority nor a need for that matter.

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I don't think any videotaped material can be mixed with 35mm footage for a motion picture, even if it's 2-inch 16-track. Honestly, the Earls Court footage doesn't look any better than other videotaped concerts from the same era.

Other than that, I agree with you. The theory of shooting another concert in 1975 seems to be false simply because the band had already shot fantasy sequences and the Shepperton footage.

Edited by Geezer

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Just to be clear, the Earls Court concerts were filmed with 2 inch 16-track videotapes

It's clear SAJ.

So clear. So blinded by its clarity that some will pound sand and cry and pout for proof clinging to the comfort of their disuage and unbelief.

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I don't think any videotaped material can be mixed with 35mm footage for a motion picture, even if it's 2-inch 16-track. Honestly, the Earls Court footage doesn't look any better than other videotaped concerts from the same era.

Other than that, I agree with you. The theory of shooting another concert in 1975 seems to be false simply because the band had already shot fantasy sequences and the Shepperton footage.

Jimmy Page and Dick Carruthers began the 'Led Zeppelin DVD' project with 132 cans of film negatives and two sets of two-inch videotape. The latter had to be baked in an oven, and the search for an operational playback machine for the now obsolete two-inch video medium led all the way to Singapore. Dick Carruthers stated creating the visuals was "like building a cathedral from matchsticks" and the accompanying booklet mentions how bleeding colors, shaking lines, and worn-out video tape were all restored in state-of-the-art digital workstations.

I don't know for certain if technology existed in 1975 for two-inch videotape and 35mm film to be edited together into a cohesive film. Regardless, as I've said all along, I don't think they were still intending let alone attempting to execute any filming for TSRTS project in '75 given the fantasy sequences and reenactments had been undertaken and completed.

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Yes and I agreed with you on that one.

Now let's hope the upcoming box sets feature at least some video material.

Edited by Geezer

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Yes and I agreed with you on that one.

Now let's hope the upcoming box sets feature at least some video material.

I wasn't expecting them too but now that you mention it yes, that would be nice.

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The Why Pink Floyd box sets featured unreleased video material, studio outtakes and 5.1 mixes of two of their studio albums, and I think this is exactly what we're going to get. But I'm digressing.

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My main hope is that it's not all edited. I'd like them to do something like what the Beatles did with Anthology, audiowise. To release it in volumes with alternate takes, demos, etc mixed with live songs.

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My main hope is that it's not all edited. I'd like them to do something like what the Beatles did with Anthology, audiowise. To release it in volumes with alternate takes, demos, etc mixed with live songs.

That may be a pretty cool way to do this. Probably won't happen as it will most likely be album by album. Although, Jimmy has yet to divulge any of the particulars on these releases yet, so who knows?

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Yes, I read it too.

http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/308-zeppelin-mysteries-hosted-by-steve-a-jones/page-241#entry706187

Even though it's printed on the official album sleeve, nobody believes in that story.

I knew that I read this somewhere also but didn't have time to find it until this evening. Even though the discussion is moot, here is the quote that I found in Tangents:

Jimmy added, "When I viewed the film I realised there was insufficient footage so in 1975, having learnt from viewing the film so far I wanted to tour again returning to America to re-shoot some concerts but Robert's accident in Rhodes prevented this and we finished up the film making the best we could of the existing material, so it isn't the best that we possibly could do."

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I knew that I read this somewhere also but didn't have time to find it until this evening. Even though the discussion is moot, here is the quote that I found in Tangents:

Jimmy added, "When I viewed the film I realised there was insufficient footage so in 1975, having learnt from viewing the film so far I wanted to tour again returning to America to re-shoot some concerts but Robert's accident in Rhodes prevented this and we finished up the film making the best we could of the existing material, so it isn't the best that we possibly could do."

Great contribution to this thread. It seems clear to me to "re-shoot concerts" and "it isn't the best that we possibly could do" would likely have meant the abandonment of the '73 era concert footage.

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Just to be clear, the Earls Court concerts were filmed with 2 inch 16-track videotapes (not the common VHS format folks :-) ) and I submit to you their inclusion in 'Led Zeppelin DVD' (2003) and public screenings associated with that release prove beyond a reasonable doubt the suitability of the raw footage for a motion picture release. Granted modern technology cleaned them up quite a bit.

Hey Steve,

Sorry to be a pedant, but I know you're a stickler for accuracy......

2 inch tape was the video medium for Earls court - but the '16 track' part does not relate to video tape. In those days (as is now in fact for those who still use tape) you could only fit one video source onto a tape - video, especially colour footage, takes up a lot of space. 2 inch 16-track was the audio medium that the concerts were recorded on.

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woz70, do you know whether all five concerts were recorded? I've seen photos from all five nights and cameras were there at all five of them, but I'm not sure if all of them were recorded to a tape.

Edited by Geezer

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woz70, do you know whether all five concerts were recorded? I've seen photos from all five nights and cameras were there at all five of them, but I'm not sure if all of them were recorded to a tape.

I've read something in a couple of interviews that Jimmy gave surrounding the DVD release that all the nights were recorded (SAJ will be able to confirm, I'm sure), but that not all of the audio was useful or usable - for instance, one night the Bass drum didn't get recorded for some reason, rendering that recording useless (unless you want to spend hours analysing Bonhams playing, sampling his kick drum and sequencing a replacement which would send the 'no overdubs!!!!!' posse into a complete frenzy). If you watch the EC segment on the DVD (especially Going To Calfornia) you can see that Roberts hair changes from shot-to-shot, so they definitely recorded video for more than one night too.

What won't have been recorded was a separate feed from every camera - you'd need a very large 2" tape machine for every camera if that was the case, which would have been incredibly expensive and impractical. The video that does exist will be the selections that were made by whoever was controlling the feed to the video screens literally on the fly. That means if you want to edit the video (as they did for DVD) then your only choice for different viewpoints during one song is to either pick segments from different nights, or from different songs - which is why you occasionaly get audio/video sync problems (fingers not playing notes matching the audio on guitars etc.).

Hope that helps.

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Hey Steve,

Sorry to be a pedant, but I know you're a stickler for accuracy......

2 inch tape was the video medium for Earls court - but the '16 track' part does not relate to video tape. In those days (as is now in fact for those who still use tape) you could only fit one video source onto a tape - video, especially colour footage, takes up a lot of space. 2 inch 16-track was the audio medium that the concerts were recorded on.

Good catch/clarification.

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What won't have been recorded was a separate feed from every camera - you'd need a very large 2" tape machine for every camera if that was the case, which would have been incredibly expensive and impractical. The video that does exist will be the selections that were made by whoever was controlling the feed to the video screens literally on the fly. That means if you want to edit the video (as they did for DVD) then your only choice for different viewpoints during one song is to either pick segments from different nights, or from different songs - which is why you occasionaly get audio/video sync problems (fingers not playing notes matching the audio on guitars etc.).

Absolutely correct and wholly consistent with what Dick Carruthers has stated: he did not have separate feeds to work with, only the one.

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Absolutely correct and wholly consistent with what Dick Carruthers has stated: he did not have separate feeds to work with, only the one.

Thanks Steve.

I'd like to make one more point for the 'why don't they release the entire show' brigade for EC and especially Knebworth - Jimmy (and Kevin Shirley I believe) has stated that there were some songs that he would loved to have included on the DVD, but that the audio was incomplete or unusable for whatever reason. One case in point being 'Ten Years Gone' from Knebworth, where Jimmy's guitar simply didn't make it onto tape - a cracking performance, but completely unsalvageable.

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Dick Carruthers or Kevin Shirley has said that only three of the gigs were multitracked, and there were problems with the bass drum on the 23rd, as you pointed out. I've never heard anything regarding the footage from the other nights (17-18-23).

Thanks Steve.

I'd like to make one more point for the 'why don't they release the entire show' brigade for EC and especially Knebworth - Jimmy (and Kevin Shirley I believe) has stated that there were some songs that he would loved to have included on the DVD, but that the audio was incomplete or unusable for whatever reason. One case in point being 'Ten Years Gone' from Knebworth, where Jimmy's guitar simply didn't make it onto tape - a cracking performance, but completely unsalvageable.

There's nothing wrong with the audio of the bootleg. Edited by Geezer

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Dick Carruthers or Kevin Shirley has said that only three of the gigs were multitracked, and there were problems with the bass drum on the 23rd, as you pointed out. I've never heard anything regarding the footage from the other nights (17-18-23).

I bow to your knowledge.

I do stand by my comments regarding the video though - If three nights of audio were commited to tape, I'd reckon three nights of video were too. Others will have better info.

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There's nothing wrong with the audio of the bootleg.

I doubt very much that the audio of the bootleg came from the multitrack - it was a most likely a soundboard source recorded straight to stereo from the engineers desk. Roberts voice has that horrid harmoniser on it ( :( blech) which would have been added live and not commited to multitrack.

Edited by woz70

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