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SteveAJones

Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

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Steve,

Having just returned from the beautiful city of Seattle, how come Zep skipped Seattle on the 1971 US Tour? The NBA Supersonics weren't even at preseason training camp when that US tour started in Vancouver August 19th, so it's not like the venue (Coliseum) wasn't available.

You look at how much the band loved Seattle: playing there in Dec 1968, 3 times in 1969, Spring of 1970, September 1970 (the first 6 US Tours) and then every tour from 1972 on. Furthermore, in Bonzo's words, that 1971 tour was the longest they had been away from America to date, and he wondered whether or not they would be received well in the States after such a long layoff (heaven forbid...11 months!), so you'd think they would want to play Seattle, to reaffirm that connection.

To me, all this adds up to a broken down negotiation between Grant and the local promoter(s)...I just don't see how Zep skips Seattle on that 1971 tour, without something behind the scene maybe causing them to skip Seattle for that one tour?

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Steve,

Having just returned from the beautiful city of Seattle, how come Zep skipped Seattle on the 1971 US Tour? The NBA Supersonics weren't even at preseason training camp when that US tour started in Vancouver August 19th, so it's not like the venue (Coliseum) wasn't available.

You look at how much the band loved Seattle: playing there in Dec 1968, 3 times in 1969, Spring of 1970, September 1970 (the first 6 US Tours) and then every tour from 1972 on. Furthermore, in Bonzo's words, that 1971 tour was the longest they had been away from America to date, and he wondered whether or not they would be received well in the States after such a long layoff (heaven forbid...11 months!), so you'd think they would want to play Seattle, to reaffirm that connection.

To me, all this adds up to a broken down negotiation between Grant and the local promoter(s)...I just don't see how Zep skips Seattle on that 1971 tour, without something behind the scene maybe causing them to skip Seattle for that one tour?

In August 1971 Seattle hosted an event called Festival 71. It was the first event after the 1961 Seattle World's Fair to utilize the entire Seattle Center campus. The event was repeated as Festival 72 the following year, becoming Bumbershoot in 1973. Bumbershoot continues as North America's largest urban arts festival, taking place annually at Seattle Center over the Labor Day weekend.

The Paramount was far too small for the group and The Kingdome did not open until 1976.

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Shake My Their Tree?

Jimmy has always maintained the opening riff of Shake My Tree, released by Coverdale/Page in 1993, is something he had developed during the In Through The Out Door Sessions. However, listen to the opening guitar riff in the left channel on New Orleans Is Sinking by The Tragically Hip, released in 1989 (at about 9 seconds in). Caught again or strictly coincidence? Sounds like the same riff to me, just played faster by Page. You decide.

The Tragically Hip opened for Page/Plant on their massive 1995 North American Tour.

Edited by SteveAJones

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^ with all due respect, no, I don't hear any obvious similarity (but a more musically-trained ear could, probably)

With similar due respect, they demonstrably are :yesnod: Although, my theory has always been that Jimmy is plagiarising himself because the Nobody's Fault But Mine riff is - in part - the Shake My Tree riff slowed down and reversed (with the latter using almost the exact same notes as the former) Who knows though except Jimmy? I've never heard of him lifting anything before, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt :lol: besides, it only becomes official when people have noticed it and are arguing in the comment section of the video. I can find no mention of it. All I can find is this accusation of plagiarism directed at The Tragically Hip :

Thomas Jefferson 9 months ago

This comment has received too many negative votes

They stole the music from John Andersons Swingin

·

1.jpg

user98xp 8 months ago

Oh my sweet fuck, you are onto something. Though, to be fair, many songs are similar to other songs.

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With similar due respect, they demonstrably are :yesnod: Although, my theory has always been that Jimmy is plagiarizing himself because the Nobody's Fault But Mine riff is - in part - the Shake My Tree riff slowed down and reversed (with the latter using almost the exact same notes as the former) Who knows though except Jimmy?

I do like this theory because if correct it allows Jimmy's claim to remain true.

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I do like this theory because if correct it allows Jimmy's claim to remain true.

post-19994-0-13940400-1375531334_thumb.j

Even if one has never played a guitar, It's pretty clear that the riffs both use the same strings and many of the same notes. You can actually play it differently to this tab to achieve the same sound. For example, on the second section of Shake My Tree you could just as easily slide from from the "2" to the "4" (that's how I play it) and then that section would mirror Nobody's Fault But Mine even more.

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With similar due respect, they demonstrably are :yesnod: Although, my theory has always been that Jimmy is plagiarising himself because the Nobody's Fault But Mine riff is - in part - the Shake My Tree riff slowed down and reversed (with the latter using almost the exact same notes as the former) Who knows though except Jimmy? I've never heard of him lifting anything before, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt :lol: besides, it only becomes official when people have noticed it and are arguing in the comment section of the video. I can find no mention of it. All I can find is this accusation of plagiarism directed at The Tragically Hip :

Thomas Jefferson 9 months ago

This comment has received too many negative votes

They stole the music from John Andersons Swingin

·

1.jpg

user98xp 8 months ago

Oh my sweet fuck, you are onto something. Though, to be fair, many songs are similar to other songs.

OK, if PB said it then it must be true! Seriously, I am nearly tone-deaf, don't know why I dared to wander on this thread. So the logical conclusion of all this is that the Tragically Hip were the ones borrowing from Jimmy, but it was from NFBM? Thank you SAJ and PB, I learnt something today, also the fact that there is a band on earth with such a tragically dumb name :bravo:

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Not so much a LZ mystery, as a big LZ regret.

That being, that LZ did not, like so many other music titans did, like The Beatles, The Who, Pink Floyd, etc, ever produce a film of them working in the studio.

Edited by The Rover

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Rock N Roll Recollections

John Bonham 'Black Dog' 1975

by Stanley Sheldon

Back in Los Angeles, coke and smack were everywhere. All one had to do in order to cop was to ask a friend, or any stranger on the street for that matter. When we wanted to get high, we would hang out at a little private club above the Roxy on Sunset Boulevard, called, appropriately enough, “On the Rocks.” This was strictly an elite club, for celebrities only.

One night Tommy Bolin and I happened to be up there together. We were both in town, Deep Purple (Tommy) was out in Malibu rehearsing for their upcoming world tour, and I was in town riding the wave of Peter Frampton’s recent success. We were having drinks and yuking it up at the bar when we realized we were sitting next to John Bonham, and he was there all alone! Bonham knew who Tommy was from the Billy Cobham recording (Spectrum) and let Tommy know that he was a big fan, and of course the feeling was mutual.

Bonham was such a legend. Before he died, (and even more so after) he was revered by just about every musician on the planet. Belying his imposing physical stature and gruff manner, underneath the rough exterior he was really just a big “teddy bear.” I remember asking him about what I had always reckoned to be a very complex time signature on a particular Led Zeppelin song, called “Black Dog.” “How does that work now” I said, “ba-ba-ba-bum-pa-pa-pa,” Bonham cut me off, and with the patented British deadpan expression, he simply mumbled “it’s 4/4 mate.”

Bonham and Tommy talked for a long time about the Spectrum album and Billy Cobham, and of course Led Zeppelin. When we were all about to leave when Bonham spontaneously invited Tommy and I, and our girlfriends Karen and Judy, back to his hotel room in order to keep the party going. Well of course we went.

This was one of the most memorable evenings I can ever remember spending. Bonham was such a lovable character. We sat chatting with him for hours that night, while his roadie kept making periodic strolls through the suite to make sure everybody had enough dope – one plate with white lines – another with more sinister beige ones. It is terribly ironic that the “activities” we were enjoying so much at the time would, in a matter of one or two years, take the lives of both of the gentlemen I was sitting there with. Bonham was serenely high, and as we chatted away into the early morning, he had told us how he loved to build his own furniture back home in England. “I love to work with my hands” he told me. Well, give him a couple of huge double B wooden drumsticks and watch him work!

I’ll never forget that night.

http://www.stanleysheldon.com/johnbonham,ledze.html

Edited by SteveAJones

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Thanks for posting this Steve. I have a question. I was in a record store a couple of weeks ago and heard a familiar riff. I thought it was

the Zeppelin intro to "The Girl I Love Has Long Black Wavy Hair." But is wasn't as I soon found out. I asked the guy selling records who was playing on this song. He said "the Meters." Maybe everyone already knows this, but did the Meters copy Jimmy, or did he copy them? I think the Meters pre-dated Zeppelin. Thanks

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Thanks for posting this Steve. I have a question. I was in a record store a couple of weeks ago and heard a familiar riff. I thought it was the Zeppelin intro to "The Girl I Love Has Long Black Wavy Hair." But is wasn't as I soon found out. I asked the guy selling records who was playing on this song. He said "the Meters." Maybe everyone already knows this, but did the Meters copy Jimmy, or did he copy them? I think the Meters pre-dated Zeppelin. Thanks

The Meters began in 1965, however Jimmy never recorded with them and I doubt there's any real connection here. Seems to me the only song of theirs that even remotely resembles the opening of The Girl I Love (She Got Long Black Wavy Hair) is the first track in this best of compilation: Cissy Strut. A great funk group though!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU0gR125NpA

Edited by SteveAJones

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That's it!!! It does resemble it - I guess more in the "pick" than in the riff melody. Maybe Jimmy just heard it, liked it and gave it the Jimmy magical transformation. Thanks Steve.

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One more question, and then I will shut up. Do all three members own the rights equally to their music catalog? I remember Michael Jackson buying the Beatles Catalog for millions, but don't remember how many millions. Do you know if Jimmy has possession of the catalog? I guess it is locked up in a big, very big, vault. If one song is worth the GDP of a small country, the original master copy of STH, I wonder how much the whole catalog would be worth? I have been thinking about this for some time and just wonder...if Jimmy and the boys would ever sell it during their lifetimes.

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One more question, and then I will shut up. Do all three members own the rights equally to their music catalog? I remember Michael Jackson buying the Beatles Catalog for millions, but don't remember how many millions. Do you know if Jimmy has possession of the catalog? I guess it is locked up in a big, very big, vault. If one song is worth the GDP of a small country, the original master copy of STH, I wonder how much the whole catalog would be worth? I have been thinking about this for some time and just wonder...if Jimmy and the boys would ever sell it during their lifetimes.

Could very well be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere on this forum that Robert no longer owns equal shares to Jimmy and Jonesy, that he sold some/all a number of years back?

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Hi Steve, I have a question about TSRTS, the film. I looked through the thread discussing it, but didn't find anything on it. If it has been discussed please redirect me to the thread, thanks.

What I'd like to know is, in TSRTS, during SIBLY, that girl in the audience with the hood on, at a certain point she starts laughing, obviously, at something that is going on onstage. Do we know what made her laugh?

Thanks again and I apologize if this question has been asked before.

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Hi Steve, I have a question about TSRTS, the film. I looked through the thread discussing it, but didn't find anything on it. If it has been discussed please redirect me to the thread, thanks.

What I'd like to know is, in TSRTS, during SIBLY, that girl in the audience with the hood on, at a certain point she starts laughing, obviously, at something that is going on onstage. Do we know what made her laugh?

Thanks again and I apologize if this question has been asked before.

Probably the weed, hahah. No but seriously, if you were at a Zeppelin concert you were bound to laugh at one point or another. Robert probably looked at her or she was laughing at his gestures or something. Why would you want to know that anyways?

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Hi Steve, I have a question about TSRTS, the film. I looked through the thread discussing it, but didn't find anything on it. If it has been discussed please redirect me to the thread, thanks.

What I'd like to know is, in TSRTS, during SIBLY, that girl in the audience with the hood on, at a certain point she starts laughing, obviously, at something that is going on onstage. Do we know what made her laugh?

Thanks again and I apologize if this question has been asked before.

Steve can answer this, as you asked him. But just to add something - At first I thought it was Robert's wife, Maureen, But it is not. IMO, Robert was looking at her, she was very pretty, and he made her laugh by doing this.

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Probably the weed, hahah. No but seriously, if you were at a Zeppelin concert you were bound to laugh at one point or another. Robert probably looked at her or she was laughing at his gestures or something. Why would you want to know that anyways?

While it's a given that LZ concerts had their hilarious moments thanks to the Plantations, it's a shame that Robert probably did something funny and it wasn't captured on camera, that's all. I guess it will remain a mystery.

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Could very well be wrong, but I thought I read somewhere on this forum that Robert no longer owns equal shares to Jimmy and Jonesy, that he sold some/all a number of years back?

Thanks Steve. I think I will look around the financial press and see if I can dig something up. If I do, I will PM you and you can put it in the archive.

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Steve can answer this, as you asked him. But just to add something - At first I thought it was Robert's wife, Maureen, But it is not. IMO, Robert was looking at her, she was very pretty, and he made her laugh by doing this.

Thanks pottedplant and yes, she was very pretty...if I'm not mistaken I think there was an article about her in the Washington Post, about how they never found out who she was. Nonetheless, she has been forever immortalized!

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One more question, and then I will shut up. Do all three members own the rights equally to their music catalog? I remember Michael Jackson buying the Beatles Catalog for millions, but don't remember how many millions. Do you know if Jimmy has possession of the catalog? I guess it is locked up in a big, very big, vault. If one song is worth the GDP of a small country, the original master copy of STH, I wonder how much the whole catalog would be worth? I have been thinking about this for some time and just wonder...if Jimmy and the boys would ever sell it during their lifetimes.

I've covered this topic elsewhere, if not in this thread then in others. Suffice to say Robert sold his rights to receive royalties from sales of Led Zeppelin's back catalog (the original ten albums) during the New Wave of British Heavy Metal era (early 1980s). Who knew something called the compact disc would come along to compel baby boomers to replace their original vinyl again and (remastered) again? LOL. It's my understanding he still retains his publishing rights, and it's my understanding that he does receive royalties on sales of the non-back catalog Led Zeppelin albums released since 1983.

Here's an insightful feature on this topic that also discusses Jackson's purchase of The Beatles back catalog:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/music/la-et-hilburn-michael-jackson-sep22,0,452154.story?page=3

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Hi Steve, I have a question about TSRTS, the film. I looked through the thread discussing it, but didn't find anything on it. If it has been discussed please redirect me to the thread, thanks.

What I'd like to know is, in TSRTS, during SIBLY, that girl in the audience with the hood on, at a certain point she starts laughing, obviously, at something that is going on onstage. Do we know what made her laugh?

Thanks again and I apologize if this question has been asked before.

Not for certain, but it always seemed to me she was simply having her own personal "They are so far out, man!" moment as she then nods her head to the beat of the song. Then again, since they were filming with hand-held cameras she may have realized she was being filmed and it flattered her to laughter.

If memory serves correct whenever an individual audience member is shown they are definitely aware they are being filmed. In any event, for me it is she among them all who epitomizes the connection Led Zeppelin made with it's audiences.

Edited by SteveAJones

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Does anyone really know the extent of the "note" or "letter" that Manson family member, Squeaky Fromme, wrote to Jimmy Page before a Led Zeppelin concert in Los Angeles? She asked to speak directly to Jimmy at the hotel, but was told that He was unavailable and was told to write down what she intended to say to him. From what I have read, the "letter" was thrown out before she even left the building.

Edited to add: Squeaky Fromme was a known killer by the time she tried to meet Mr. Page. After Charlie Manson went to prison (once on Death Row, later to be commuted to Life in Prison), Lynette Fromme attempted to assassinate President Gerald Ford.

Edited by kingzoso

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