brspled Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Probably urban legend confined to the deep south... Did Robert Plant receive some type of treatment to achieve the vocal quality on The Song Remains The Same off HOTH? I was a young teenager when this album was released and vaguely remember some talk about this. Helium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 Helium Well, it's always nice to see you brspled. You brought a smile this time -- a bonus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 10, 2008 Author Share Posted April 10, 2008 Lead singer Robert Plant's vocals were raised an octave during mixing. So an "effect" was employed, but Jimmy's comments disprove the use of vari-speed. Nicely done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brspled Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Well, it's always nice to see you brspled. You brought a smile this time -- a bonus! I can do even better Really Steve...you know my "style", you know by now that I'm always (or almost always) for "smiles" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Symbol Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) Great thread. I read with interest on an earlier page (page nine I think), which possibly refers to some of Jimmy's stolen tapes being returned to him, after an earlier & infamous theft. This is the first I've heard of this. Does anyone know which tapes were returned, and how this came about? Just curious, that's all. Thanks! Edited April 11, 2008 by One Symbol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Great thread. I read with interest on an earlier page (page nine I think), which possibly refers to some of Jimmy's stolen tapes being returned to him, after an earlier & infamous theft. This is the first I've heard of this. Does anyone know which tapes were returned, and how this came about? Just curious, that's all. Thanks! I don't know about the original tapes being returned to him, but I do know that he contacted a collector in the Zepp community who had copies of most (if not all) of the stolen tapes ( but was NOT involved in the theft). He invited this collector down to Abbey Road studios for a weekend (with said tapes) so that he could make copies of these tapes again for his collection. He was extremely nice, kind and generous to the collector and their spouse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I don't know about the original tapes being returned to him, but I do know that he contacted a collector in the Zepp community who had copies of most (if not all) of the stolen tapes ( but was NOT involved in the theft). He invited this collector down to Abbey Road studios for a weekend (with said tapes) so that he could make copies of these tapes again for his collection. He was extremely nice, kind and generous to the collector and their spouse. It's such a damn shame because the acts of a few selfish people have deprived us all of any official release now... I mean, we have versions of the tapes, which is great, but they will always be bootleg quality and won't get the once over by Jimmy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrbjorn Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 It's such a damn shame because the acts of a few selfish people have deprived us all of any official release now... I mean, we have versions of the tapes, which is great, but they will always be bootleg quality and won't get the once over by Jimmy..... Which may well be a good thing considering his taste for editing, splicing and turd polishing until the finished item has little resemblance to the actual show it was taken from. I in no way condone the theft of the tapes though, that's just evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Symbol Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 I don't know about the original tapes being returned to him, but I do know that he contacted a collector in the Zepp community who had copies of most (if not all) of the stolen tapes ( but was NOT involved in the theft). He invited this collector down to Abbey Road studios for a weekend (with said tapes) so that he could make copies of these tapes again for his collection. He was extremely nice, kind and generous to the collector and their spouse. Thanks for that, Knebby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 11, 2008 Author Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) He invited this collector down to Abbey Road studios for a weekend (with said tapes) so that he could make copies of these tapes again for his collection. He was extremely nice, kind and generous to the collector and their spouse. Knebby, would this be the "return of the tapes in May 1999" which walterswalk referred to about six months ago? How unfortunate if there has yet to be a return of those originals. I was made aware of how they were stolen and who did it, as you know. May 1999 is certainly consistent with Jimmy having been at Abbey Road Studios working on ideas for new Page/Plant material. Edited April 11, 2008 by SteveAJones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audacity Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Were those tapes reel-to-reel or cassettes? Did Jimmy use one or the other exclusively to record their shows? I hope the quality was only one generation away from the originals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 Knebby, would this be the "return of the tapes in May 1999" which walterswalk referred to about six months ago? Yes indeed, Steve. Can't provide detail about reel-to reel etc though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluxe Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Jimmy Page would use the alias James McGregor. Did he use other aliases and what were they? Did any of the other members use an alias? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share Posted April 12, 2008 (edited) Jimmy Page would use the alias James McGregor. Did he use other aliases and what were they? Did any of the other members use an alias? Charles Obscure. I can't think of any the other three ever used as an alias. Edit: Nelson Storm was the stage name Jimmy Page used circa 1959-60 while touring for about a year as the guitarist for Neil Christian (his birthname is Chris Tidmarsh). Edited April 12, 2008 by SteveAJones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterswalk Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Were those tapes reel-to-reel or cassettes? Did Jimmy use one or the other exclusively to record their shows? I hope the quality was only one generation away from the originals. All cassettes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knebby Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 Jimmy Page would use the alias James McGregor. Did he use other aliases and what were they? Did any of the other members use an alias? In the 80s Robert regularly used "Mr Phantom" - after the song he loves so much "Love Me" by The Phantom. Dunno if it ever extended to credits songwriting or otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audacity Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 All cassettes Thank you for letting this be known. I'd always been curious. Do you know what brand he used? And I wonder if he used a Nakamichi deck or what? So those stolen soundboard bootlegs that have come out were from cassette. Fascinating. I wonder too, if these most recent soundboards, Vancouver '75 etc. are from his personal collection or from the sound crew tapping into the boards during the shows. And if they're also cassettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share Posted April 12, 2008 Name Change to John Paul Jones Here's the details on why John Baldwin changed his name to John Paul Jones, courtesy of an interview with Andrew Loog Oldham in "Goldmine" magazine (November 24, 1995): GOLDMINE: How did it come about that you hooked up with John Paul Jones, later of Led Zeppelin? OLDHAM: I was given a chance by Decca to produce something other than the Stones, so I called on a young arranger I knew named John Baldwin. The thing was, I wanted my arranger to have a more artistic surname than Baldwin, particularly as I'd be recording a single with him. There was a new Robert Stack movie going the rounds, called "John Paul Jones." I had no idea what, or who, it was all about, but the name had the kind of ring to it that I'd always liked. I called up John and told him the news. "No more answering to the name of Baldwin. From now on, you're John Paul Jones." If only I'd known what he would go on to become, maybe I'd have asked for a percentage on what he earned from the name. Or maybe I wouldn't. I'd pinched it from an American folk hero; all I'd done was pass it onto an English one. (Courtesy of Achilles Last Stand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 12, 2008 Author Share Posted April 12, 2008 Thank you for letting this be known. I'd always been curious. 1) A soundboard tape has no relation to a live album, except that the same moments in time are captured on both. A professional recording is almost always done on a multitrack recorder, which means that each instrument is put on its own tape track: the guitar, the bass, each of Jones' keyboards, Plant, Bonham's snare, kick, hi-hat (etc); each of these is committed to its own track, which allows it's volume level and equalization to be altered (in a studio environment) independently of the others. Also, the actual tape used to capture these tracks is of very high quality. This is why "The Song Remains the Same" sounds so much clearer than any bootlegs. 2) Once in the studio, these independent tracks must be "mixed" into a final stereo recording. It is this mix that the consumer (you and me) will hear. Believe me, creating a superb mix is extremely time consuming, and terribly difficult. Should the guitar be louder here? Are the vocals loud enough, or too loud? In a regular studio recording, mixing usually takes as long or longer than it took to record a song. 3) In creating a live album culled from multiple live dates, each of these mixes must be further tweaked to give them a cohesive sound. Here's an example of what I mean: I'm sure some of you out there have a bootleg or two that came from multiple sources. When the sound switches from one set of "sound values" to another, you probably find it momentarily jarring. This is the last thing the maker of an album wants. So while these mixes are being made, the producer and engineer must take great care to make each song sound as though it came from the same "space," even if it didn't. These "spaces" can be further tweaked in the "mastering" stage, when final EQ and compression are placed upon the recordings. A further example of what I mean: We all know that most of Zeppelin's studio album were recorded at several different studios, but each album sure has it's own sonic signiture. I promise you that great care was taken to make each album sound as cohesive as it does. 4) All of these technical sound-quality considerations have nothing at all to do with picking the "best" version of a song. That's another extremely time-consuming and emotionally painful process unto itself. 5) Unrelated, but interesting: Most soundboard tapes come from the monitor board, not the front-of-house (FOH) board. The FOH board is the board used to mix sound for the audience; this board is designed to take in all the sounds from the stage and regurgitate one mix for the house. The monitor board provides sound for the bandmembers on stage. Monitor boards are designed to take in the stage sounds and regurgitate many different mixes, because each member of a band likes to hear different things in their monitors. For example, Bonham probably needed to hear more of Jones' bass than of Page's guitar, but Page probably needed to hear more of Bonham's drums than of Jones' bass. Because a monitor board can output many different mixes, one of these mixes is dedicated to making a tape with each band member (hopefully) mixed correctly. Hope you found that interesting. Bill O'Neil Venice, CA, USA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluxe Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 ,...but Page probably needed to hear more of Bonham's drums than of Jones' bass. Not to be nit picking here but, after many hundreds of gigs, 9 1/2 times out of 10 it is the bass that get's lost before the drums and also Page probably would want to hear the changes Jones was playing moreso than what Bonham did, aside from the regular quese. And besides, I don't think Page had a problem hearing Bonham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 13, 2008 Author Share Posted April 13, 2008 Not to be nit picking here but, after many hundreds of gigs, 9 1/2 times out of 10 it is the bass that get's lost before the drums and also Page probably would want to hear the changes Jones was playing moreso than what Bonham did, aside from the regular quese. And besides, I don't think Page had a problem hearing Bonham. Bill was referring specifically to the monitor mixes and it is only his opinion. Perhaps some comments from the band can shed more light on this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluxe Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Bill was referring specifically to the monitor mixes and it is only his opinion. Perhaps some comments from the band can shed more light on this topic. I understand and I was refering specifically about the monitor mixes as well. That would be an excellent topic though, that being how the band prefered their onstage setup. Page speaks volumes about studio techniques but rarely regarding the actual gig specs in terms of sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swandown Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 Charles Obscure. I can't think of any the other three ever used as an alias. Edit: Nelson Storm was the stage name Jimmy Page used circa 1959-60 while touring for about a year as the guitarist for Neil Christian (his birthname is Chris Tidmarsh). Although a recent Record Collector article claims that Page used the stage name "Nelson Storm", other sources state that Page actually used the name "Elmer Twitch". Jimmy may have also been credited as "Jimmy Price" during the Neil Christian days. Another pseudonym used by Page: S. Flavius Mercurius (on Roy Harper's Stormcock LP). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 I wonder too, if these most recent soundboards, Vancouver '75 etc. are from his personal collection or from the sound crew tapping into the boards during the shows. And if they're also cassettes. PhotonBeam over at RO said that every show was recorded, and that these tapes were always given pretty much straight to Jimmy. There were no 'crew copies' or anything of the sort. I understand and I was refering specifically about the monitor mixes as well. That would be an excellent topic though, that being how the band prefered their onstage setup. Page speaks volumes about studio techniques but rarely regarding the actual gig specs in terms of sound. The monitor mix is something that is different from band to band, depending on the dynamic of the band. I would suggest that all the other members would want to hear Page clearly, as he was band leader musically speaking. Bonham and Jones would want to hear each other, but Bonham would want an equal mix of Jones and Page. Who knows what Robert wanted? I know singers who want to hear lots of guitar, others who want bass and others who want drums. I think that it would make sense Page wanted more Bonham than Jones - JPJ played a lot of stuff which augmented and textured the guitars, rather than the guitars being based on the keys/bass, which is another way to do things. Who knows it's all speculation really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluxe Posted April 13, 2008 Share Posted April 13, 2008 (edited) I think that it would make sense Page wanted more Bonham than Jones - JPJ played a lot of stuff which augmented and textured the guitars, rather than the guitars being based on the keys/bass, which is another way to do things. Who knows it's all speculation really. Is there any information on the stage monitors used by Zeppelin anywhere? This would be quite facinating since we could see who listened to what and maybe why. And Cactus I hear what your saying. And speculation it is for sure, however I think more bass would make more sense since the drums always cut through everything and especially since Bonham wasn't exactly using brushes when he played. Page probably wanted to hear Plant upfront also. Who knows. I certainly would like to find out. Edited April 13, 2008 by deluxe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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