Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[SteveAJones]

Although a recent Record Collector article claims that Page used the stage name "Nelson Storm", other sources state that Page actually used the name "Elmer Twitch". Jimmy may have also been credited as "Jimmy Price" during the Neil Christian days.

Another pseudonym used by Page: S. Flavius Mercurius (on Roy Harper's Stormcock LP).

Hello Swandown. I haven't seen the recent issue of Record Collector yet. His bandmates

recall he used Nelson Storm, as you know. I'm interested to see what the other sources

have to add to that.

I thought of S. Flavius Mercurius offline and my next immediate thought was no worries, Swandown will post it!

[No Quarter..pounder]

Unsolved Zeppelin Mystery: "Jimmy Page and James Brown"

On January 16th 2004 Jimmy Page was backstage at the House of Blues in Los Angeles speaking to legendary singer James Brown. He told James Brown he had

attended his gig at the Odeon in Hammersmith (London) in 1970. Given Led Zeppelin's

extensive touring that year the gig Jimmy attended was probably during the summer,

but the unsolved mystery is: WHAT WAS THE DATE OF THE 1970 JAMES BROWN GIG

that Jimmy claimed to have attended?

1969. I think it was the Newport Jazz Festival.

[SteveAJones]

1969. I think it was the Newport Jazz Festival.

Thanks, No Quarter Pounder, but I believe you misread the question. Your pointing out they were on the bill together at Newport Jazz Festival 1969, but I'm actually trying to

confirm the date in 1970 on which Jimmy attended James Brown's concert at the Odeon

in Hammersmith (London).

Edited April 13, 2008 by SteveAJones

[Cactus]

And Cactus I hear what your saying. And speculation it is for sure, however I think more bass would make more sense since the drums always cut through everything and especially since Bonham wasn't exactly using brushes when he played. Page probably wanted to hear Plant upfront also. Who knows. I certainly would like to find out.

I should clarify that everything I said would be what the various members would want to be able to hear - not necessarily what their monitor mix would be. i.e. Page might want to hear more drums, which are loud enough without being put through the monitors at all, so instead he is given less bass through his monitors etc.

[the-ocean87]

Eddie Van Halen may have been making a general statement about the timeline for playing clubs.

Also, in 1974, just glancing at Reisner's site, there were no apparent shows by Led Zeppelin in Los Angeles.

In 1975, the Los Angeles concerts were in March, and Led Zeppelin was in England a few days before and after John Bonham's birthday.

In 1976, there was no apparent tour anywhere; this may have been the time when the band was recuperating from unforseen circumstances.

In 1977, Led Zeppelin was in North Carolina on John Bonham's birthday, and did not come to Los Angeles until the last week of June.

Therefore, 1973 makes the most sense.

Found this in a Deep Purple forum:

"Another similar incident (though I'm not 100% sure if it really happened) is that bonham and blackmore were both in a bar together (1976) and eddie van halen came in and asked the two if he could have a drink with them ... both blackmore and bonham told him to piss off.

For what its worth"

In 1976 played with Rainbow.

[badgeholder]

PhotonBeam over at RO said that every show was recorded, and that these tapes were always given pretty much straight to Jimmy. There were no 'crew copies' or anything of the sort.

The monitor mix is something that is different from band to band, depending on the dynamic of the band. I would suggest that all the other members would want to hear Page clearly, as he was band leader musically speaking.

Bonham and Jones would want to hear each other, but Bonham would want an equal mix of Jones and Page.

Who knows what Robert wanted? I know singers who want to hear lots of guitar, others who want bass and others who want drums.

I think that it would make sense Page wanted more Bonham than Jones - JPJ played a lot of stuff which augmented and textured the guitars, rather than the guitars being based on the keys/bass, which is another way to do things.

Who knows it's all speculation really.

What's always interesting to me is, in the photos, they have NO floor monitors! Crazy! Just gigantic stacks on each side of the stage (talking about Jimmy and Robert) So, I don't think they're enjoying quite as "customized" a mix as is available these days.

[the-ocean87]

In January 1976 Page, Plant, & Bonham were staying at the Park Lane Hotel in New York

City. They were in town to conduct press interviews. One night, Bonzo attended Deep Purple's concert at Radio City Music Hall. At the end of the show he ran onstage and

addressed the crowd, shouting "we've got a new album coming out soon!"

Steve,

i remember reading an interview with Ian Paice. Can't find it again. He cleared up the whole thing. I remember he told "Bonzo came on stage. He wanted to play drums. I won't let him play and gave him a tamburine. So he played tamburine on the encore" I'm searching for the whole thing.... If i find it again, I'll post it here.

[shinedaddy]

Steve, no answer to my "mystery"? Are you stumped or too busy? Here it is again:

Here is one for you.....Peter Clifton and Joe Massot were both hired, seperately and in succession, to film/finish the 1973 footage for TSRTS, filmed during the very last leg of the American 1973 tour....One of them, I forget which now (I believe Clifton), had previously worked with the band and filmed them during their spring 1970 American tour. The question is, what city(ies) did they film in and what constitutes the majority of the footage? Is it black and white, color, live, offstage, or what? And secondly, who currently owns the masters, or do they even exist at all?

[lzfan715]

Can someone tell me what Jimmy believes in? I think it's the Order of something. He is maybe a wizard in it. Thanks in advance.

[Cactus]

Can someone tell me what Jimmy believes in? I think it's the Order of something. He is maybe a wizard in it. Thanks in advance.

Hahaha. A wizard.

The Order of the Golden Dawn was Crowley's connection.

[AllisonAdler]

Can someone tell me what Jimmy believes in? I think it's the Order of something. He is maybe a wizard in it. Thanks in advance.

No one can say for certain what another person believes, but I think you might mean the Ordo Templi Orientis, or O.T.O.

[SteveAJones]

Can someone tell me what Jimmy believes in? I think it's the Order of something. He is maybe a wizard in it. Thanks in advance.

Many believe he is a Thelemite.

[SteveAJones]

Steve,

i remember reading an interview with Ian Paice. Can't find it again. He cleared up the whole thing. I remember he told "Bonzo came on stage. He wanted to play drums. I won't let him play and gave him a tamburine. So he played tamburine on the encore" I'm searching for the whole thing.... If i find it again, I'll post it here.

Thank you for your contribution here. If you can find it then perhaps it will further substantiate the comment John Bonham made about having a new album out soon.

[SteveAJones]

Steve, no answer to my "mystery"? Are you stumped or too busy? Here it is again:

Here is one for you.....Peter Clifton and Joe Massot were both hired, seperately and in succession, to film/finish the 1973 footage for TSRTS, filmed during the very last leg of the American 1973 tour....One of them, I forget which now (I believe Clifton), had previously worked with the band and filmed them during their spring 1970 American tour. The question is, what city(ies) did they film in and what constitutes the majority of the footage? Is it black and white, color, live, offstage, or what? And secondly, who currently owns the masters, or do they even exist at all?

Your question actually ties in to a larger project I'm working on so I certainly haven't

forgotten. It's not so easy to give you the most accurate answer on demand. This

one is going to take more time and coordination to arrive at the truth.

Feel free to PM me for an update anytime.

[deluxe]

Hi Steve. Way back in September 1980, through a friend who's father grew up with Donald K Donald, I was lined up for front row seats and I even think an opportunity to meet the band was in place for the October 17 Zep concert at the Forum in Montreal. My same friend had front row seats at Zep's '75 Forum show when he was 10 years old. Said it was the loudest concert ever

Listed below are the dates that were scheduled. I know tickets from the Chicago shows are being sold online. Do you know if any other tickets were printed for other cities, or merchandise (programs, t-shirts etc) is floating around from the tour that never happened?

I'm not interested in buying that stuff, just curious as to what happened with it all, or if it existed. Also were there any other tour plans for the West coast or the rest of the world?

Cancelled '80 tour

10/17/1980 - Montreal, Quebec, Montreal Forum

10/191980 - Landover, MD, Capitol Centre

10/20/1980 - Landover, MD, Capitol Centre

10/22/1980 - Philadelphia, PA, Spectrum

10/23/1980 - Landover, MD, Capitol Centre

10/26/1980 - Cleveland, OH, Richfield Coliseum

10/27/1980 - Cleveland, OH, Richfield Coliseum

10/29/1980 - Detroit, MI, Joe Louis Arena

10/30/1980 - Detroit, MI, Joe Louis Arena

11/01/1980 - Buffalo, NY, War Memorial Auditorium

11/03/1980 - Philadelphia, PA, Spectrum

11/04/1980 - Philadelphia, PA, Spectrum

11/06/1980 - Pittsburgh, PA, Civic Arena

11/07/1980 - Pittsburgh, PA, Civic Arena

11/09/1980 - St. Paul, MN, Civic Centre

11/10/1980 - Chicago, IL, Chicago Stadium

11/12/1980 - Chicago, IL, Chicago Stadium

11/13/1980 - Chicago, IL, Chicago Stadium

11/15/1980 - Chicago, IL, Chicago Stadium

11/15/1980 - Chicago, IL, Chicago Stadium

Edited April 15, 2008 by deluxe

[Nech]

Your question actually ties in to a larger project I'm working on so I certainly haven't

forgotten. It's not so easy to give you the most accurate answer on demand. This

one is going to take more time and coordination to arrive at the truth.

Feel free to PM me for an update anytime.

Going out on a limb here, but according to a Peter GRant Interview in Dave Lewis' Celebration II, it would seem that the only contact Clifton had with Zep prior to being hired to fix the mess Massot left behind with TSRTS was when he had approached them once about doing a film and took Jimmy and Grant to a a viewing theater and showed them a bunch of clips of Hendrix that he shot. So it would seems if Clifton had shot footage of them in spring of 70 as you suggest it was not known to them. I mean, you'd think he'd have shown them clips of themselves in trying to cozy up for a job.

[SteveAJones]

Listed below are the dates that were scheduled. I know tickets from the Chicago shows are being sold online. Do you know if any other tickets were printed for other cities, or merchandise (programs, t-shirts etc) is floating around from the tour that never happened?

I'm not interested in buying that stuff, just curious as to what happened with it all, or if it existed. Also were there any other tour plans for the West coast or the rest of the world?

Tickets:

Only tickets for Chicago were put on sale to the general public, the sad irony being John Bonham was found dead the same morning the Chicago Tribune reported over 1,000 fans had lined up at the Chicago Stadium box office. A full page ad promoting the

ticket sales for the Chicago shows was also printed in that edition of the paper.

Tickets for the two Detroit shows were produced but never sold to the public. Sometime following the aftermath someone either purchased or helped themselves to a sizeable quanity of them and they are now available on the open market.

The Detroit tickets are much more diffucult to obtain than the Chiacgo tickets, which were definately purchased in bulk by a private enterprise and sold via ads in the press and ultimately online.

Tour Merchandise:

I've never seen any authentic examples of tour merchandise produced for this tour.

There was a number of official canvas carry-on bags produced but those were intended for band and road crew members. On the side it says "Led Zeppelin The 1980s Part One" in letters similar to that one the cover of 'In Through The Out Door'. These do surface from time to time and generally sell for about $150-$200.00

Tour Itinerary:

Important to understand the group had been on hiatus from touring for three years until the Over Europe tour that Summer, which went well. When it ended, Robert indicated he would return to the USA but only if the tour itinerary was kept to one month, so it's no coincidence that first leg of the tour is one month.

We can only speculate if Robert would have agreed to a second leg, or if they intended

to do a round of UK dates first. Some crew members have said something to the effect of they were thinking if all went well they figured they would have done a series of UK dates in December 1980 and the West Coast of the USA in Spring 1981.

Edited April 16, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Unsolved Mystery for New Yorkers

Robert Plant Live at The Hard Rock Cafe

New York, New York

1985

Approximately two months ago, Led Zeppelin.com Forum member Heaven Knows contacted me concerning this gig she attended in 1985 prior to Led Zeppelin's reunion at Live Aid in July 1985. This gig does not appear in any book or website, and as such remains a bonafide mystery.

Since then, several prominent New York City radio djs from that era have been contacted, with at least one distinctly recalling this event did occur, but he could not provide a date more specific than "1985".

Based on performances, public appearances and media activity I have already confirmed for Robert Plant in 1985, I believe this Hard Rock Cafe gig almost certainly occured in May and most probably during the last week of the month (over the Memorial Day Weekend).

I would welcome a confirmation of the actual date via a ticket stub, promotional item, press review or news clipping, etc. Anyone who can provide one or also attended please PM me to discuss further.

[huw]

Songfacts -

"The Song Remains the Same" features a furious, galloping rhythm and beautifully shimmering, multi-tracked guitar from Jimmy Page. Lead singer Robert Plant's vocals were raised an octave during mixing. Original working titles were "The Overture", "The Campaign" and even simply "Zep".

http://forum.songfacts.com/showtopic.php?tid/140570/

Reading back through this thread I came on this one. The vocals raised a whole octave?

An OCTAVE?

I call BS, & I'm quite confident in doing so.

Anyone who has worked in a studio, or even spent a short time playing with a harmoniser, will know that the more the pitch of a source is altered (either by vari-speeding the tape OR by using a harmoniser) the more noticeable it becomes. Shift it too far & it sounds nothing like the original source.

Vocals that had been shifted a whole octave using 1972 technology would be unusable (and things aren't that much better nowadays).

Consider the "noise" guitar solos that Page played in 1977 - the harmoniser was heavily featured on that, raising & lowering the guitar pitch by octaves. Ask yourself this: when it was raised an octave, did it sound like a 12-string guitar? Did it sound like the same guitar, only higher? Or did it sound like some synthetic musical box? Be honest - it sounded nothing like a guitar, did it?

Now imagine Plant's voice run through the same treatment. The result would not sound like his vocals on TSRTS.

Results from vari-speeding would, if anything, be worse. For a start, Plant would have had to sing the song at half speed, holding his breath & sustaining notes twice as long as on the finished record. Then he would have had to match his pronunciation to be exactly paced so as to come out right when doubled in speed (hard to explain, but the middle of words would most likely sound wrong - the internal timing of the word - which is seperate from the timing of the phrase as a whole.

And what would he have had to listen to while he sang at half speed? The whole backing track slowed to half speed? Imagine what a dense mush of noise that would have produced. The difficulties of pitching to it & staying in time with it would be huge. I can't believe that anyone would have ever thought it worth the effort.

So while I could beleive that Plant's vocals had been vari-speeded up a touch, I cannot accept the idea that they were raised a whole octave - IMHO this has to be a case of internet gossip & rumour.

Of course if anyone has a quote from Page saying that's what they did I'll be happy to see it. But I doubt that very much )

[SteveAJones]

Reading back through this thread I came on this one. The vocals raised a whole octave? I call BS, & I'm quite confident in doing so.

You made some great points in your post.

[Bong-Man]

An OCTAVE?

I call BS, & I'm quite confident in doing so.

Anyone who has worked in a studio, or even spent a short time playing with a harmoniser, will know that the more the pitch of a source is altered (either by vari-speeding the tape OR by using a harmoniser) the more noticeable it becomes. Shift it too far & it sounds nothing like the original source.

I'm totally ignorant about the technology you are referring to, but I have a related question. During the '77 tour, Robert performs with JPJ on "The Battle of Evermore". JPJ sings low....Robert sings high, but only for part of the song. The rest seems to sound like Robert is harmonizing with himself....using what device ?

[shinedaddy]

Reading back through this thread I came on this one. The vocals raised a whole octave?

An OCTAVE?

I call BS, & I'm quite confident in doing so.

Anyone who has worked in a studio, or even spent a short time playing with a harmoniser, will know that the more the pitch of a source is altered (either by vari-speeding the tape OR by using a harmoniser) the more noticeable it becomes. Shift it too far & it sounds nothing like the original source.

Vocals that had been shifted a whole octave using 1972 technology would be unusable (and things aren't that much better nowadays).

Consider the "noise" guitar solos that Page played in 1977 - the harmoniser was heavily featured on that, raising & lowering the guitar pitch by octaves. Ask yourself this: when it was raised an octave, did it sound like a 12-string guitar? Did it sound like the same guitar, only higher? Or did it sound like some synthetic musical box? Be honest - it sounded nothing like a guitar, did it?

Now imagine Plant's voice run through the same treatment. The result would not sound like his vocals on TSRTS.

Results from vari-speeding would, if anything, be worse. For a start, Plant would have had to sing the song at half speed, holding his breath & sustaining notes twice as long as on the finished record. Then he would have had to match his pronunciation to be exactly paced so as to come out right when doubled in speed (hard to explain, but the middle of words would most likely sound wrong - the internal timing of the word - which is seperate from the timing of the phrase as a whole.

And what would he have had to listen to while he sang at half speed? The whole backing track slowed to half speed? Imagine what a dense mush of noise that would have produced. The difficulties of pitching to it & staying in time with it would be huge. I can't believe that anyone would have ever thought it worth the effort.

So while I could beleive that Plant's vocals had been vari-speeded up a touch, I cannot accept the idea that they were raised a whole octave - IMHO this has to be a case of internet gossip & rumour.

Of course if anyone has a quote from Page saying that's what they did I'll be happy to see it. But I doubt that very much )

I agree totally. The person who said an octave was obviously not a musician and probably meant they were raised, and used THAT term because they had heard it before. They meant to say raised by a tone or two and had no idea how to word it. There is NO WAY IN ANY REALITY THAT IT WAS AN OCTAVE. I would be more likely to believe that the vocals were recorded on the moon that they were raised an octave. I would bet everything I own on it

[jabe]

Reading back through this thread I came on this one. The vocals raised a whole octave?

An OCTAVE?

I call BS, & I'm quite confident in doing so.

Anyone who has worked in a studio, or even spent a short time playing with a harmoniser, will know that the more the pitch of a source is altered (either by vari-speeding the tape OR by using a harmoniser) the more noticeable it becomes. Shift it too far & it sounds nothing like the original source.

Vocals that had been shifted a whole octave using 1972 technology would be unusable (and things aren't that much better nowadays).

Consider the "noise" guitar solos that Page played in 1977 - the harmoniser was heavily featured on that, raising & lowering the guitar pitch by octaves. Ask yourself this: when it was raised an octave, did it sound like a 12-string guitar? Did it sound like the same guitar, only higher? Or did it sound like some synthetic musical box? Be honest - it sounded nothing like a guitar, did it?

Now imagine Plant's voice run through the same treatment. The result would not sound like his vocals on TSRTS.

Results from vari-speeding would, if anything, be worse. For a start, Plant would have had to sing the song at half speed, holding his breath & sustaining notes twice as long as on the finished record. Then he would have had to match his pronunciation to be exactly paced so as to come out right when doubled in speed (hard to explain, but the middle of words would most likely sound wrong - the internal timing of the word - which is seperate from the timing of the phrase as a whole.

And what would he have had to listen to while he sang at half speed? The whole backing track slowed to half speed? Imagine what a dense mush of noise that would have produced. The difficulties of pitching to it & staying in time with it would be huge. I can't believe that anyone would have ever thought it worth the effort.

So while I could beleive that Plant's vocals had been vari-speeded up a touch, I cannot accept the idea that they were raised a whole octave - IMHO this has to be a case of internet gossip & rumour.

Of course if anyone has a quote from Page saying that's what they did I'll be happy to see it. But I doubt that very much )

It's been interesting to read the replies since I posed this question to SteveAJones.

The urban legend I refered to in my initial post,was that Plant had undergone some type of "hormonal treatment"to achieve the higher pitch in his voice for this song.

That sounds as farfetched today as it did when I first heard about it in the mid 70's.

Still,I can think of no other Led Zeppelin song that exhibits this quality.

Why is that?

[SteveAJones]

Still,I can think of no other Led Zeppelin song that exhibits this quality. Why is that?

Well again, I think it was only used to enhance the momentum of that particular track.

[Nathan]

As to Robert's vocals on TSRTS, it may not have been an octave, but close? It sounds like one tone higher and Alvin the Chipmunk would be singing the song, not Robert Plant.

So, a possible unsolved mystery, or no? Just how much were Plant's vocals altered on The Song Remains the Same?

Edited April 17, 2008 by Nathan