Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[SteveAJones]

I was of the understanding that Jimmy found the typeface in a book, rather than having it commissioned.

As for the picture, I don't think it need be a mystery. Perhaps Jimmy just liked it. Afterall, look at the third album. He hated that artwork.

"one of England's most prominent occult figures" As one of the most prominent, why does anybody not know his name?

Furthermore, have you seen any of Jimmy's artwork? It's abstract. Nothing like the Colby art. Not that I don't think him capable, I just have doubts.

And since we've decided the Hermit has horns, is he also standing on a dove?

Discuss.

Hello Evster,

You are essentially correct. Jimmy found the typeface in an old arts and crafts magazine called Studio (which began publishing in the late 1800s). He thought that the lettering was interesting and said he commissioned someone to work up a whole alphabet. There

is apparently a credit to "Graphreaks" for design coordination so it may well have been

them.

Good point on the third album artwork, although I think the subtle difference is he relied

upon someone else to execute his concept, whereas with Led Zeppelin IV he was more directly involved in the execution. A quick bit of Wiki-wisdom:

The concept of a volvelle, based on crop rotation charts, was initially Jimmy Page's idea. However, the result was a meeting of minds as Zacron had been working on rotating graphics from 1965. Zacron felt that by not including text on the front of the cover, the art would endure.

In an article featured in the December 2007 issue of Class Rock magazine, Zacron claimed that upon his completion of the artwork, Jimmy Page telephoned him while he was in New York to express his satisfaction with the results, saying "I think it is fantastic". However, in a 1998 interview Page himself gave to Guitar World magazine, he described the results as a disappointment:

"I thought it looked very teeny-bopperish. But we were on top of a deadline, so of course there was no way to make any radical changes to it. There were some silly bits - little chunks of corn and nonsense like that."

Back to Led Zeppelin IV, there is no consensus on which of the prominent English occult figures may be depicted on the cover, which is why one is not specifically named here. Besides, most occult connections are best left for others to explore on their own path at their own pace. I don't believe in spoon feeding people in this area of study.

Insofar as the hermit having horns and the presence of a dove, this is not something I

have "decided", rather it has been or can be interpreted in this manner. Clearly, it's a

work meant to be interpreted by us: "View in Half or Varying Light".

The authorship of the inner artwork was resolved previously in this thread. It was found

that (Barrington) Colbey's name may have inexplicably been mispelled "Colby" on the album cover, which made finding other examples of his work difficult. Apparently, he is

residing in Switzerland at this time.

Always a pleasure to correspond with you, Evan.

Edited May 9, 2008 by SteveAJones

[kirchzep27]

Nah, it just wasn't what he envisioned. With the albums that followed you can be sure he wasn't gonna let that happen again. That's why HOTH's release was delayed for weeks. He wanted the colors to be perfect.

A funny anecdote about album covers. When Zep was doing Presence, they hired Hipgnosis to do the cover. They were the firm that did Pink Floyd's most memorable covers. Anyway, Storm Thorgeson (the designer), walks into Swan Song and presents his vision. It's a tennis court. He looks at Jimmy and says "Racket. Get it?". Jimmy was incensed! "Racket??". Our music is "Racket??". "GET OUT!!!". Storm came back with "Zeppelin's music has this presence". Blah blah. Hence the Presence cover with the obelisk. Funny shit! But hey, Storm rescued the commission!

Wow. Its incredible how big money and production works sometimes. Today, the presence album cover and 3 would have most likely been different in cd format, or for that matter many if not all of them. Back to the -hipgnosis story...wonder if he wasnt a fan, a rolling stone reader or what. Jeez, another story of led zep having to go against the tide. Hard to believe considering music in the last 20yrs.

[SunChild]

it commissioned.

As for the picture, I don't think it need be a mystery. Perhaps Jimmy just liked it. Afterall, look at the third album. He hated that artwork.

"one of England's most prominent occult figures" As one of the most prominent, why does anybody not know his name?

Pesonally I just see a desire for a mystery and not a lot of substance.

Furthermore, have you seen any of Jimmy's artwork? It's abstract. Nothing like the Colby art. Not that I don't think him capable, I just have doubts.

And since we've decided the Hermit has horns, is he also standing on a dove?

Discuss.

[SteveAJones]

Just noticed there's a star in the lantern flame, too.

...and a small chapel in the valley below...

So much more for others to discover on their own path at their own pace...

[Evster2012]

Well, if one wishes upon the star (tongue in cheek), it's a 6-sided star. Or two inverted pyramids. While many may jump on the star of David, the Mogen David, the Jewish star, it's also the star (or seal) of Solomon, the key to the Kabballah, which in turn anchors Crowley's mysticism. And around we go!

Edited May 9, 2008 by Evster2012

[SunChild]

Well, if one wishes upon the star (tongue in cheek), it's a 6-sided star. Or two inverted pyramids. While many may jump on the star of David, the Mogen David, the Jewish star, it's also the star (or seal) of Solomon, the key to the Kabballah, which in turn anchors Crowley's mysticism. And around we go!

Thanks for that... for some reason, I didn't want to say "Star of David" although at first that's what I first thought of.

It's been a long time since I had my hands on that actual cover. Looks like an item to add to the list.

It's been a long time since I pored over an album cover looking for hidden meanings, too, come to think of it.

[Stargroves Tangie]

Furthermore, have you seen any of Jimmy's artwork? It's abstract. Nothing like the Colby art. Not that I don't think him capable, I just have doubts.

Evster, I've never seen any of Jimmy's artwork- do you have links to any pics?

[Nech]

Well, if one wishes upon the star (tongue in cheek), it's a 6-sided star. Or two inverted pyramids. While many may jump on the star of David, the Mogen David, the Jewish star, it's also the star (or seal) of Solomon, the key to the Kabballah, which in turn anchors Crowley's mysticism. And around we go!

Evvy baby, I thought you quit this forum...meanwhile I'm making T shirts like this . . .

oh BOO!!!!!

Dogs of Doom?!?!?!?!!!

Edited May 10, 2008 by Nech

[SteveAJones]

Evvy baby, I thought you quit this forum

Evster will still fish here provided the algae & amoeba content of the pond remains low.

Edited May 10, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SunChild]

...and a small chapel in the valley below...

So much more for others to discover on their own path at their own pace...

That one I noticed back in the day... especially that the true light is so far above it, and not easy to get to.

Evvy baby, I thought you quit this forum...meanwhile I'm making T shirts like this . . .

oh BOO!!!!!

Dogs of Doom?!?!?!?!!!

Wow... yeah.

I'd love a T-shirt of that! Then I could study it, too.

[kirchzep27]

Well, if one wishes upon the star (tongue in cheek), it's a 6-sided star. Or two inverted pyramids. While many may jump on the star of David, the Mogen David, the Jewish star, it's also the star (or seal) of Solomon, the key to the Kabballah, which in turn anchors Crowley's mysticism. And around we go!

Alright, now i'm thinking listening to led zep could be bad, like something from an indiana jones movie. just kidding.

Edited May 10, 2008 by middlezep

[SteveAJones]

Alright, now i'm thinking listening to led zep could be bad, like something from an indiana jones movie.

Well, all beliefs are self-referential so some discoveries may conflict with pre-conceived

notions. There is so much more to Led Zeppelin than meets the eye...or ear.

[kirchzep27]

Well, all beliefs are self-referential so some discoveries may conflict with pre-conceived

notions. There is so much more to Led Zeppelin than meets the eye...or ear.

Yeah, your right. my reaction was not really self referntial, or on society etc. was just sort of making light of the comment. I really just enjoy the music, as rock music. But i certainly see that its cool to look into the art further.

[MadScreamingGallery]

Nah, it just wasn't what he envisioned. With the albums that followed you can be sure he wasn't gonna let that happen again. That's why HOTH's release was delayed for weeks. He wanted the colors to be perfect.

A funny anecdote about album covers. When Zep was doing Presence, they hired Hipgnosis to do the cover. They were the firm that did Pink Floyd's most memorable covers. Anyway, Storm Thorgeson (the designer), walks into Swan Song and presents his vision. It's a tennis court. He looks at Jimmy and says "Racket. Get it?". Jimmy was incensed! "Racket??". Our music is "Racket??". "GET OUT!!!". Storm came back with "Zeppelin's music has this presence". Blah blah. Hence the Presence cover with the obelisk. Funny shit! But hey, Storm rescued the commission!

Hello Evster,

You are essentially correct. Jimmy found the typeface in an old arts and crafts magazine called Studio (which began publishing in the late 1800s). He thought that the lettering was interesting and said he commissioned someone to work up a whole alphabet. There

is apparently a credit to "Graphreaks" for design coordination so it may well have been

them.

Good point on the third album artwork, although I think the subtle difference is he relied

upon someone else to execute his concept, whereas with Led Zeppelin IV he was more directly involved in the execution. A quick bit of Wiki-wisdom:

The concept of a volvelle, based on crop rotation charts, was initially Jimmy Page's idea. However, the result was a meeting of minds as Zacron had been working on rotating graphics from 1965. Zacron felt that by not including text on the front of the cover, the art would endure.

In an article featured in the December 2007 issue of Class Rock magazine, Zacron claimed that upon his completion of the artwork, Jimmy Page telephoned him while he was in New York to express his satisfaction with the results, saying "I think it is fantastic". However, in a 1998 interview Page himself gave to Guitar World magazine, he described the results as a disappointment:

"I thought it looked very teeny-bopperish. But we were on top of a deadline, so of course there was no way to make any radical changes to it. There were some silly bits - little chunks of corn and nonsense like that."

Back to Led Zeppelin IV, there is no consensus on which of the prominent English occult figures may be depicted on the cover, which is why one is not specifically named here. Besides, most occult connections are best left for others to explore on their own path at their own pace. I don't believe in spoon feeding people in this area of study.

Insofar as the hermit having horns and the presence of a dove, this is not something I

have "decided", rather it has been or can be interpreted in this manner. Clearly, it's a

work meant to be interpreted by us: "View in Half or Varying Light".

The authorship of the inner artwork was resolved previously in this thread. It was found

that (Barrington) Colbey's name may have inexplicably been mispelled "Colby" on the album cover, which made finding other examples of his work difficult. Apparently, he is

residing in Switzerland at this time.

Always a pleasure to correspond with you, Evan.

Ev and Steve, thanks for that information on the album covers. It's interesting to me that Jimmy didn't like the cover of LZ III and described it as "teeny-bopperish" - I remember when that album was released - I was still a kid and not yet a "teeny-bopper" - my friends and I thought the cover was incredibly cool. It reminds me of what was, back then, a vast chasm of sorts between the sophistication level of the Zep guys and that of their young fans.

When I first saw Zep in concert, the fourth album had not yet been released and I don't believe that it had a working title although the band performed songs from it. Was the delay (I think it was released two months after the concert) due to the cover artwork or the band not reaching a decision about a title?

ftr, when the album was finally released, my friends and I searched for all sorts of supposedly hidden messages, meanings, and symbols, including using mirrors. After awhile, we outgrew that and it became, at least to us, just a great album cover - one without hidden messages, meanings, and symbols.

[SteveAJones]

When I first saw Zep in concert, the fourth album had not yet been released and I don't believe that it had a working title although the band performed songs from it. Was the delay (I think it was released two months after the concert) due to the cover artwork or the band not reaching a decision about a title?

I presume you attended the September 3, 1971 concert at Madison Square Garden, in

which case it would have been another two months before the album was released. All

the songs were recorded by March 1971, so they were fully prepared to perform them on that tour. Atlantic's resistance to the album cover artwork did result in a delay, but

Jimmy already decided fairly early on he did not want to just title it 'Led Zeppelin IV'.

[MadScreamingGallery]

I presume you attended the September 3, 1971 concert at Madison Square Garden, in

which case it would have been another two months before the album was released. All

the songs were recorded by March 1971, so they were fully prepared to perform them on that tour. Atlantic's resistance to the album cover artwork did result in a delay, but

Jimmy already decided fairly early on he did not want to just title it 'Led Zeppelin IV'.

Yes, that was my first Zep concert. I didn't know that the songs were recorded back in March of that year. It seems that, after all these years, I am still learning new things about LZ.

[kirchzep27]

Yes, that was my first Zep concert. I didn't know that the songs were recorded back in March of that year. It seems that, after all these years, I am still learning new things about LZ.

Just when you thought you were getting bored hearing the same songs...here is an interactive forum, better than any magazine, by miles. Unreal, i'm still absorbing it as a fan.

[SunChild]

Alright, now i'm thinking listening to led zep could be bad, like something from an indiana jones movie. just kidding.

Do not be afraid...

Ev and Steve, thanks for that information on the album covers. It's interesting to me that Jimmy didn't like the cover of LZ III and described it as "teeny-bopperish" - I remember when that album was released - I was still a kid and not yet a "teeny-bopper" - my friends and I thought the cover was incredibly cool. It reminds me of what was, back then, a vast chasm of sorts between the sophistication level of the Zep guys and that of their young fans.

When I first saw Zep in concert, the fourth album had not yet been released and I don't believe that it had a working title although the band performed songs from it. Was the delay (I think it was released two months after the concert) due to the cover artwork or the band not reaching a decision about a title?

ftr, when the album was finally released, my friends and I searched for all sorts of supposedly hidden messages, meanings, and symbols, including using mirrors. After awhile, we outgrew that and it became, at least to us, just a great album cover - one without hidden messages, meanings, and symbols.

Excellent point. Maybe that is part of what made them so interesting and exciting, too, especially to the more intelligent and aware.

Think of what a boring, "ticky tacky," sameness we were all subjected to. Rock 'n Roll was a way out, and seriously, people with "hidden" knowledge were irresistable. Put the two together, it's a good thing.

I'd have died of sheer boredom and frustration without that sort of outlet.

Just when you thought you were getting bored hearing the same songs...here is an interactive forum, better than any magazine, by miles. Unreal, i'm still absorbing it as a fan.

Me, too, middlezep.

I find that if I get bored with Zeppelin, I can switch it up. Live vs. Studio. Earlier vs. Later. Or I just take a break, but somehow I always come back. No one else holds a candle to them.

[MadScreamingGallery]

Just when you thought you were getting bored hearing the same songs...here is an interactive forum, better than any magazine, by miles. Unreal, i'm still absorbing it as a fan.

Same here. Decades later, I find there is always something new to discover and learn about my favorite band.

[...]

Excellent point. Maybe that is part of what made them so interesting and exciting, too, especially to the more intelligent and aware.

Think of what a boring, "ticky tacky," sameness we were all subjected to. Rock 'n Roll was a way out, and seriously, people with "hidden" knowledge were irresistable. Put the two together, it's a good thing.

I'd have died of sheer boredom and frustration without that sort of outlet.

[...]

"Intelligent and aware" - I like that description. Seriously, though, I absorbed a lot back then - probably/possibly more than I should have. I have said it before: the band opened the world to me - not just musically but also where and how they traveled, what they read, etc. I quickly realized that I would never be content with a "small" or "narrow" life.

Edited May 12, 2008 by MadScreamingGallery

[SunChild]

Same here. Decades later, I find there is always something new to discover and learn about my favorite band.

"Intelligent and aware" - I like that description. Seriously, though, I absorbed a lot back then - probably/possibly more than I should have. I have said it before: the band opened the world to me - not just musically but also where and how they traveled, what they read, etc. I quickly realized that I would never be content with a "small" or "narrow" life.

That's so cool.

Yeah, music, travel, art, history, books, AND sex, drugs and rock 'n roll. A huge world, and brought about on their own terms.

[kirchzep27]

Do not be afraid...

Me, too, middlezep.

I find that if I get bored with Zeppelin, I can switch it up. Live vs. Studio. Earlier vs. Later. Or I just take a break, but somehow I always come back. No one else holds a candle to them.

ofcourse, i agree. plus alot of great solo material too. not to mention that zeppelin music turns you on to so much more music.

[kirchzep27]

Same here. Decades later, I find there is always something new to discover and learn about my favorite band.

"Intelligent and aware" - I like that description. Seriously, though, I absorbed a lot back then - probably/possibly more than I should have. I have said it before: the band opened the world to me - not just musically but also where and how they traveled, what they read, etc. I quickly realized that I would never be content with a "small" or "narrow" life.

This reminded me of the -jerry garcia quote in the -jack kerouac box set and how certain music, writing, art can lead us to seeing things differently and experiencing life.

.."in the next couple of years i read kerouac, and i recall in 59 hanging out with a friend who had a kerouac record, and i remember being impressed-i'd read his stuff, but i hadnt heard it,the cadence, the flow,the kind of endlessness of the prose, the way it just poured off. It was really stunning to me. His way of perceiving music- the way he wrote about music and america- and the road,the romance of the american highway,it struck me. It struck a primal chord. It felt familiar, something i wanted to join in. It wasnt like a club, it was a way of seeing. It became so much a part of me that its hard to measure; i cant separate who i am now from what i got from kerouac. I dont know if i would ever have had the courage or the vision to do something outside with my life- or even suspected the possibilities existed- if it werent for kerouac opening those doors" -jerry garcia 1989

[MadScreamingGallery]

This reminded me of the -jerry garcia quote in the -jack kerouac box set and how certain music, writing, art can lead us to seeing things differently and experiencing life.

.."in the next couple of years i read kerouac, and i recall in 59 hanging out with a friend who had a kerouac record, and i remember being impressed-i'd read his stuff, but i hadnt heard it,the cadence, the flow,the kind of endlessness of the prose, the way it just poured off. It was really stunning to me. His way of perceiving music- the way he wrote about music and america- and the road,the romance of the american highway,it struck me. It struck a primal chord. It felt familiar, something i wanted to join in. It wasnt like a club, it was a way of seeing. It became so much a part of me that its hard to measure; i cant separate who i am now from what i got from kerouac. I dont know if i would ever have had the courage or the vision to do something outside with my life- or even suspected the possibilities existed- if it werent for kerouac opening those doors" -jerry garcia 1989

What an incredible quote! Not only do I agree with Jerry about Kerouac's books opening doors (as they did for me), it also applies to my experiences with Led Zeppelin. Thanks for that.

[pop]

Yes, the Dead were definitely an extension of the On the Road-beat trip. They toured and played more shows than anyone-heck they had a gypsy village following them around (I was one)...it was WILD!!

They are at once similar and very different from Zeppelin; Zep were all virtuosos while the Dead excelled at collectively creating stuff that was more humble yet could blow thousands of minds-you had to be a part of it-they didn't knock you out with it like Zep did-Zep were performers while the Dead was just the part of the crowd that was on stage playing music.....it would probably bore a lot of Zep fans-until you 'GOT IT'......

They both believed in the magic that music could bring to people and the fact that it was much more important than being just a commodity. They both experienced amazing success that the critics could not explain.....they're both my favorite bands.....similar yet so dissimilar.......similar in what counts to me though; MAGIC!

[JimmyPage1977]

Well, all beliefs are self-referential so some discoveries may conflict with pre-conceived

notions. There is so much more to Led Zeppelin than meets the eye...or ear.

I saw them and heard them.....

they were great.....

my favorite ROCK BAND, EVER, by far.....

Nothing more, nothing less.

If they are "more" to you......

Good luck to you, in your ........ ummmmm ...........life.