Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[beatbo]

I knew Page was in the same room with Hendrix. Just wasn't sure if they spoke

GW: Speaking of Eddie Kramer, who worked closely with Jimi Hendrix: Did you

ever jam with Hendrix?

Page: No. And I never saw him play, either. This is a good story actually,

back in the late sixties, I went right from working with The Yardbirds,

to touring and recording with Zeppelin, and that kept me very busy. In

the first two years of any band, you just work solidly; if you're going

to make an impression that's what you have to do. We were no different.

In fact, we probably worked for three years straight. Anyway, every time

I came back from tour and Hendrix was playing somewhere, I would always

say to my self, "Oh I'm just so exhausted, ill see him next time".

I just put it off and of course, there ultimately never was a next time.

I'm really, really upset with myself for never seeing him. I really

wanted to hear him.

Now, did I ever meet him? I did actually go into a club in New York

called Salvation, and he was there, but he was totally out of it. He

didn't really know who anybody was -- he was barely conscious. Somebody

was just kind of holding him up. It is just kind of a shame that I never

really had a chance to talk with him or hear him... I heard his records,

naturally, but it would've been a thrill to see how he worked things out

on stage. That's quite another ballgame, as you know.

http://www.iem.ac.ru/zeppelin/docs/interviews/page_93.gw

good one! i have this interview, too.

must have filed it in my brain as "same room-didn't meet".

so, what was your question again?

[SteveAJones]

Page: Now, did I ever meet him? I did actually go into a club in New York

called Salvation, and he was there, but he was totally out of it. He

didn't really know who anybody was -- he was barely conscious. Somebody

was just kind of holding him up. It is just kind of a shame that I never

really had a chance to talk with him or hear him... I heard his records,

naturally, but it would've been a thrill to see how he worked things out

on stage. That's quite another ballgame, as you know.

I'm fairly certain it was in October 1969, as Led Zeppelin stayed in New York for several nights. I need to corroborate this a bit further before I can provide a definitive answer.

Salvation was located in Greenwich Village, as was Jimi's apartment, and he only played twice with Gypsy Sun and Rainbows following their Woodstock Festival in August. One of those gigs was at Salvation. Apparently, he was there quite a bit during this time.

[widget]

I'm fairly certain it was in October 1969, as Led Zeppelin stayed in New York for several nights. I need to corroborate this a bit further before I can provide a definitive answer.

Salvation was located in Greenwich Village, as was Jimi's apartment, and he only played twice with Gypsy Sun and Rainbows following their Woodstock Festival in August. One of those gigs was at Salvation. Apparently, he was there quite a bit during this time.

Hendrix played at Salvation on Wednesday 10th September 1969. He also regularly sat in on jams at The Scene club in New York. On one occassion he jammed with the Jeff Beck Group on a version of "Beck's Bolero" on 17th June 1968. Led Zeppelin were scheduled to play at The Scene club in February 1969 but these were cancelled due to the illness of John's son Jason. Led Zeppelin played at Carnegie Hall on 17th October 1969. The only time Led Zeppelin shared the bill with Jimi Hendrix was at the Santa Clara Pop Festival on 23rd May 1969. I think Jimmy could be right, and I don't think they would have had much time hang around backstage together. Led Zeppelin had to do an evening show at the Kinetic Playground in Chicago on the same day so they would have packed up and left for the airport after their set.

Meg

[Aquamarine]

Hendrix played at Salvation on Wednesday 10th September 1969. He also regularly sat in on jams at The Scene club in New York. On one occassion he jammed with the Jeff Beck Group on a version of "Beck's Bolero" on 17th June 1968. Led Zeppelin were scheduled to play at The Scene club in February 1969 but these were cancelled due to the illness of John's son Jason. Led Zeppelin played at Carnegie Hall on 17th October 1969. The only time Led Zeppelin shared the bill with Jimi Hendrix was at the Santa Clara Pop Festival on 23rd May 1969. I think Jimmy could be right, and I don't think they would have had much time hang around backstage together. Led Zeppelin had to do an evening show at the Kinetic Playground in Chicago on the same day so they would have packed up and left for the airport after their set.

Meg

That's interesting--that Jason was sick enough to cause them to cancel a show, that early in their careers. Didn't know that.

[Amarillo Fats]

well i give up,

iv'e looked in several locations and sites and cannot find:

who played the harmonica in "when the levee breaks" ?

i was told long ago it was paul butterfield but i can't find any proof

and i know someone here has this answer.......thanks

Amarillo Fats

[widget]

On Hendrix's appearance at the Salvation club on the 10th September, I managed to find a reference to the perfromance that night in Keith Shadwick's biography Jimi Hendrix: Musician, page 198;

"... on the 10th, the band appeared once more, this time at The Salvation, in Sheridan Square, Greenwich Village. It was a shambolic event, largely because the management had insisted that the session be used as a veiled audition for a new band, much against Hendrix's wishes. He showed his displeasure by barely involving himself for the whole show, which for the most part resembled an ambling jam session as musician after musician was tried out. This was the final appearance of Gypsy Sun & Rainbows, though it could hardly be termed a concert in the circumstances. No new musicians were drafted into the band as a result of this public exhibition of confusion and chaos within the Hendrix camp."

From David Henderson's 'Scuse Me While I Kiss the Sky: The Life of Jimi Hendrix, page 312;

"[Mike] Jeffrey had booked Jimi into the Salvation Club and was insisting he make the gig. Many of the Gypsys, Suns & Rainbows speculated that the Salvation was Mafia-controlled and balked at playing there. Jeffrey knew that he had to have local support if Electric Lady Studios was to be a reality. The Salvation, on Sheridan Square, was less than two blocks away from the site of the studios."

While looking through the Shadwick book I came across another reference on page 91:

"The following day [11th January 1967] The Jimi Hendrix Experience played at their reception at the Bag O' Nails, where the combined efforts of [Chas] Chandler and his helpers ensured an enviably large turnout, including key members of British rock's meritocracy - Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, Jeff Beck, Pete Townshend, Brian Jones, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and John Lennon. Kevin Ayers, who was in attendance, remembers an air of stunned disbelief: "All the stars were there and I heard serious comments, you know: 'shit', 'Jesus', 'damn' and other words worse than that!"

[widget]

well i give up,

iv'e looked in several locations and sites and cannot find:

who played the harmonica in "when the levee breaks" ?

i was told long ago it was paul butterfield but i can't find any proof

and i know someone here has this answer.......thanks

Amarillo Fats

Most sources I've seen (Dave Lewis' Led Zeppelin: A Celebration, Chris Welch's Led Zeppelin: Dazed and Confused - The Stories Behind Every Song etc) have listed Robert Plant as the person.

Meg

[DanelectroGod]

Great stuff. This has to be one of the best Zep threads on any message board

[docron]

well i give up,

iv'e looked in several locations and sites and cannot find:

who played the harmonica in "when the levee breaks" ?

i was told long ago it was paul butterfield but i can't find any proof

and i know someone here has this answer.......thanks

Amarillo Fats

[it_was_robert]|[probably_the_reason_they_didn_'_t_play_it_live]

[he_might_'_ve_had_trouble_singing_and_playing_harmonica_at_the_same_time]

[DanelectroGod]

Ever see Robert play Custard Pie live? He really nails the harp. And Jimmy played harmonica on the Coverdale/Page song Pride and Joy......

[Amarillo Fats]

yo,

10-4 on don't try "when the levee breaks" live unless you get one of those neil young neck braces

thanks...i have seen alot of film/concerts over the years and i don't recall seeing robert playing the

harp (back in the old days some called it a "mouth harp" then harp for short)

well done robert that is a pretty ballzie job on the "levee" vocals and harmonica and all this time

i thought it was butterfield.....that is a fine compliment to robert i would think.....

i did lose 10 bucks though.....

TYVM ! Fats.......out

[James McGregor]

yo,

10-4 on don't try "when the levee breaks" live unless you get one of those neil young neck braces

thanks...i have seen alot of film/concerts over the years and i don't recall seeing robert playing the

harp (back in the old days some called it a "mouth harp" then harp for short)

well done robert that is a pretty ballzie job on the "levee" vocals and harmonica and all this time

i thought it was butterfield.....that is a fine compliment to robert i would think.....

i did lose 10 bucks though.....

TYVM ! Fats.......out

Nobodies fault but mine has some solid harp in it. LA '77 is better imo but this is Knebworth

[James McGregor]

Jimmy used to hate flying, even admitting he had to get drunk to do so(may have been toungue in cheek)

Is he still a nervous flyer? Also, do any of the other band members have any phobias?

[bigzepfan]

Jimmy used to hate flying, even admitting he had to get drunk to do so(may have been toungue in cheek)

Is he still a nervous flyer? Also, do any of the other band members have any phobias?

Yes, Robert is afraid to play rock and roll.

P.S. you are right, i'm still not over it.

Edited October 3, 2008 by bigzepfan

[Aquamarine]

So he sings it instead.

[MHD]

That's interesting--that Jason was sick enough to cause them to cancel a show, that early in their careers. Didn't know that.

This is the first I've heard of it too. Meg, can you elaborate?

[widget]

This is the first I've heard of it too. Meg, can you elaborate?

From Dave Lewis and Simon Pallett's Led Zeppelin: The Concert File, page 39:

"Steve Paul's Scene Club, New York. CANCELLED. Billed as "Jimmy Paige [sic] and England's most exciting new group - Lead Zeppelin [sic]". All four of these shows were cancelled when John Bonham went back to England because his son Jason had been taken ill. The gigs were not rescheduled."

When Led Zeppelin were in New York they often went to Steve Paul's Scene Club in Manhattan, where Jimi Hendrix also used to jam (including the infamous drunken session with Jim Morrison in March 68).

Meg

[SteveAJones]

Great stuff. This has to be one of the best Zep threads on any message board

Collaboration is the key!

[SteveAJones]

From Dave Lewis and Simon Pallett's Led Zeppelin: The Concert File, page 39:

"Steve Paul's Scene Club, New York. CANCELLED. Billed as "Jimmy Paige [sic] and England's most exciting new group - Lead Zeppelin [sic]". All four of these shows were cancelled when John Bonham went back to England because his son Jason had been taken ill. The gigs were not rescheduled."

Meg

Yes, all four gigs (Feb 3, 4, 5 & 6) were cancelled. Bonzo flew home to England after 20-mos old son Jason received stitches for his head.

Source 2: January 17th 1969 issue of 'East Village Other' (ad)

Source 3: 'Led Zeppelin - The Press Reports' by Robert Godwin

Edited October 4, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Jimmy used to hate flying, even admitting he had to get drunk to do so(may have been toungue in cheek)

Is he still a nervous flyer? Also, do any of the other band members have any phobias?

I believe I've covered this previously in the thread? Suffice to say Jimmy's fear of flying was not a deep-rooted phobia, rather a transitory concern he developed but overcame.

You might be interested to know he and Peter Grant resorted to flying aboard a United Airlines commerical flight on account of his fear of flying in Led Zeppelin's small private jet while on tour in California (June 1973). Peter leased the Starship airliner for the

second leg of that tour and they retained the use of a private jet on subsequent tours.

While touring with The Firm, he and his bandmates flew aboard a privately chartered

Viscount jet.

I imagine he's accumulated a few air miles this year >London to Japan >Japan to Thailand >Thailand to L.A. > L.A. to London >London to Beijing and back >London

to Toronto and back >etc. !

[SteveAJones]

While looking through the Shadwick book I came across another reference on page 91:

"The following day [11th January 1967] The Jimi Hendrix Experience played at their reception at the Bag O' Nails, where the combined efforts of [Chas] Chandler and his helpers ensured an enviably large turnout, including key members of British rock's meritocracy - Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger, Jeff Beck, Pete Townshend, Brian Jones, Eric Clapton, Jimmy Page, and John Lennon. Kevin Ayers, who was in attendance, remembers an air of stunned disbelief: "All the stars were there and I heard serious comments, you know: 'shit', 'Jesus', 'damn' and other words worse than that!"

Regarding the assertion Page attended that reception as well as any speculation the Page/Hendrix encounter coincided with Led Zep's 10/17/69 Carnegie Hall concert:

Jimmy might not have been at the Bag O' Nails on 1/11/67 (as the Shadwick book claims) because this dates falls between Jimmy's gig with The Yardbirds in Denmark on 1/8/67 and The Yardbirds departure from London for Singapore on 1/15/67 to begin their 1967 Austral-asian tour. Date of arrival in Singapore was confirmed against a passport. Anyway, Jimmy himself said he only met Hendrix once, and the encounter was at Salvation. There is of course the possibility the reception anecdote is completely correct, and Jimmy either doesn't recall that encounter or has mistaken it for having occured at Salvation in Greenwich Village. However, it's unlikely he'd confuse a London pub with a New York City hang out! I am looking into this further. I find it intriguing.

Association with the 10/17/69 Carnegie Hall can be ruled out beyond a reasonable doubt. On 10/16/69 Page, Plant, Bonham, Jones, Grant and journalist Chris Welch

departed London for New York aboard a TWA B-707 (the fastest means of travel in

the 60s). They were checked-in to the Hilton Hotel, and soonafter Ron Kellerman

(friend of Jimmy's) and Lord Sutch picked Jimmy up and they drove an hour to Ron's

home in Perth Amboy, NJ. He stayed the night at this private residence, socialising

with Ron and his family, playing albums, discussing music and culture.

The next day, 10/17/69, Led Zeppelin performed at Carnegie Hall (showtimes 8:30pm and midnight). Chris Welch watched these concerts with Dr. John, Chris Wood of

Traffic and Lord Sutch. Afterward, he, Robert and Jimmy went to a Jewish-owned

delicatessen where they had a lengthy post-gig discussion. The following day they

flew to Detroit.

The most likely possibility I see for the Page/Hendrix encounter is that it occured after the 10/17/69 Carnegie Hall gig. On 10/20/69 they were back in town, having played Detroit and Chicago, and it was an off day prior to their Philadelphia gig the next day. However, they attended The Who's Fillmore East post-performance party (hosted by Bill Graham) at Max's Kansas City the night of 10/20/69, so it is highly unlikely Jimmy would have broken away from those festivities to go to Salvation in Greenwich Village. There is the remote possibility he went to Salvation first, but I'm inclined to believe encounter occured when they returned to New York for the third time that month, for two days

off (10/22-23/69) following the Philadelphia gig.

Led Zeppelin attended a birthday party at Ugano's for a member of the Liverpool Scene (whom had been playing there), and given the time constraints outlined above, it, as well as the Page/Hendrix encounter at Salvation, probably occured during this third visit (10/22-23/69) to New York that month. Perhaps press coverage from that week can

shed further light on this "mystery".

Edited October 4, 2008 by SteveAJones

[widget]

The most likely possibility I see for the Page/Hendrix encounter is that it occured after the 10/17/69 Carnegie Hall gig.

Page has said it was at Salvation. In Shadwick's book there is no further gigs at Salvation by Hendrix after 10th September, which means it is highly unlikely after the Carnegie Hall show.

Meg

[SteveAJones]

Page has said it was at Salvation. In Shadwick's book there is no further gigs at Salvation by Hendrix after 10th September, which means it is highly unlikely after the Carnegie Hall show.

Meg

We really can't presume the Salvation encounter coincided with a Hendrix performance.

If it had, undoubtedly Jimmy would have watched the show and mentioned it. I take Jimmy's anecdote to mean he went to Salvation to relax on his day off (I've identified possibilities in October '69) and encountered Jimi Hendrix already hanging out there himself. A brief exchange at a table, seeing as Jimi wasn't in good condition at the time.

In fact, now that I think of it, there's virtually no possibility Jimmy attended any Hendrix gigs in Sep '69 because he and Charlotte were on holiday in Morocco and Spain for about a month prior to the 10/3/69 gig in Scheveningen, Netherlands which kicked off

a European tour. The last Zep gig prior to that was 8/31/69 in Texas. So far as I know

he did not stay in New York for at least ten days on the way back to England. They'd

already done several gigs in New York state that month (Aug). One would think he'd have wanted to get home to Charlotte and enjoy that extended vacation.

Edited October 4, 2008 by SteveAJones

[widget]

We really can't presume the Salvation encounter coincided with a Hendrix performance.

If it had, undoubtedly Jimmy would have watched the show and mentioned it. I take Jimmy's anecdote to mean he went to Salvation to relax on his day off (I've identified possibilities in October '69) and encountered Jimi Hendrix already hanging out there himself. A brief exchange at a table, seeing as Jimi wasn't in good condition at the time.

From the sources I've seen, there is no mention of Salvation apart from September 10 during that period.

[widget]

Jimmy might not have been at the Bag O' Nails on 1/11/67 (as the Shadwick book claims) because this dates falls between Jimmy's gig with The Yardbirds in Denmark on 1/8/67 and The Yardbirds departure from London for Singapore on 1/15/67 to begin their 1967 Austral-asian tour. Date of arrival in Singapore was confirmed against a passport. Anyway, Jimmy himself said he only met Hendrix once, and the encounter was at Salvation. There is of course the possibility the reception anecdote is completely correct, and Jimmy either doesn't recall that encounter or has mistaken it for having occured at Salvation in Greenwich Village. However, it's unlikely he'd confuse a London pub with a New York City hang out! I am looking into this further. I find it intriguing.

Alan Clayson's book The Yardbirds, states in the chronology section on page 184 that The Yardbirds returned to London on 9th January 1967. Which means Jimmy Page and the Yardbirds were in London between the 9th and 15th. On the 10th of January the transfer of the group's management was made between Simon Napier-Bell and Peter Grant in London.

Meg