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To lose your child the way Robert did at such a young age, must be unbearable and I'm sure he's never been able to get over.

That same thing happened to someone who I know. It was shattering at the time of the child's passing, and yet his mother carried on. It reminds me of the sorrow of Mary when Christ died.

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That same thing happened to someone who I know. It was shattering at the time of the child's passing, and yet his mother carried on. It reminds me of the sorrow of Mary when Christ died.

Good analogy E.L., Must be unbelievable to deal with. When someone says I feel your pain. I don't believe that, because they didn't lose a child. They feel the loss, but not the pain. I don't wish that on anyone.

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Thanks Steve for the article. Always knew the context of the lyrics, but now with this article, "I Believe", is even more powerful and takes on more meaning. Pretty amazing.

I find Robert's solo artistry fascinating. There are so many songs, but particularly this one, written during personal reflection which reveal something honest and true about the artist as well as humanity. I would say Colours of a Shade, The Greatest Gift and Come Into My Life are all similarly moving songs and each, IMHO, seemingly rooted in some modicum of transpersonal psychology. The end result is Fate of Nations, a very organic album.

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We know John Paul Jones and Peter Grant both had their families at the Oakland concert. Was there a reason why the Plant family wasn't there? Grant spoke in his biography that the last leg of the US tour was chance for the families to join the band, yet the Plant family was absent. The first sign anything was wrong was reports Karac Pendragon had fallen ill on the Friday before Oakland, at Plant's farm, after he had already passed away.

karac.jpg

Meg

Plant sings ‘I Believe’, perhaps for the first time to a live audience. Maybe it’s just as well that this one doesn’t understand English, and doesn’t stop bopping blissfully even as he is singing about his son’s cremation. But when he gets to the first chorus, all too naked without the supporting noise of a band or the comforts of his familiar echo, he chokes on the line that recalls how he told his daughter her “little brother is in the sky.” Practiced performer that he is, he salvages the moment by tossing his hand past his sunglasses, through his hair, in what will pass for yet another extravagant, campy rock gesture, but is really the brushing away of a tear.
Edited by Meg Ireland
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We know John Paul Jones and Peter Grant both had their families at the Oakland concert. Was there a reason why the Plant family wasn't there? Grant spoke in his biography that the last leg of the US tour was chance for the families to join the band, yet the Plant family was absent. The first sign anything was wrong was that phone call on the Tuesday morning in New Orleans, two days later, so we presume Karac Pendragon was not ill leading up to what happened.

Robert & JPJ did take their families to Disney World in Orlando, FL on June 3, 1977.

However, I believe Robert's family, as well as Jason Bonham (who recalls the Tampa

riot) were only on the tour for the few days in Florida. When the tour moved north to New York City Robert spent some of his off time playing soccer, which he probably

would not have done had they still been with him.

Regardless, there was a mid-tour break from 6/28 thru 7/14, when everyone went

back to England, except for Jimmy and Mick Hinton who went to Cairo, Egypt. When

the band returned to America for the ill-fated final leg JPJ's family and Peter's son,

so far as I know, were the only family members who accompanied them.

FWIW, the July 30th 1977 edition of the 'Dallas Morning News' reported Karac had

collapsed at home on Monday, July 25th and passed away the following day. Robert

learned of this tragedy after checking into the Maison Dupy Hotel in New Orleans

the same day.

Just to clarify, although JPJ was traveling with his family on that leg of the tour, I don't think they actually attended either of the two Oakland concerts. Peter's son Warren did, of course, but I don't think Peter's wife Gloria was on the tour at all. I could be mistaken.

Edited by SteveAJones
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The Jones and Plant families went to Disney World in Orlando, FL on June 3, 1977.

Correct. But movements after that are not well documented and we know the Plant family returned back to the farm for some reason but did not return for the second leg. Interesting.

First, and just to clarify, although JPJ was traveling with his family on that leg of the tour, I don't think they actually attended either of the two Oakland concerts.

Jones has stated they were at the same hotel where the band were staying during the Oakland concerts, with their Winnebago parked outside. I would assume the Jones' family may have attended. I can't imagine Jones telling Mo and the kids, you can't come, when they were in the vicinty of the concert.

Peter's son Warren did, of course, but I don't think Peter's wife Gloria was on the tour at all.

I could be mistaken.

Gloria never toured, which is part of the reason why that marriage fell apart. If you recall, this was the tour in which Grant had divorced from Gloria, after alleged infidelities back home at Horselunges. It screwed up Peter's life for the next decade and I believe contributed to him taking his "eyes of the ball", when the band and label needed his firm hand and direction. We know Warren was there (collecting dressing room souvenirs), and with perhaps Helen [unconfirmed].

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Regardless, there was a mid-tour break from 6/28 thru 7/14, when everyone went

back to England, except for Jimmy and Mick Hinton who went to Cairo, Egypt.

Allegedly after Page saw a television documentary with footage of the Graf Zeppelin flying over Egypt.

Meg

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An article from the New York Daily News dated June 12th 1977 and refering to their MSG 'residency' ,shows a pic of Maureen, Carmen and Karac watching a show - as the photograph was taken by the NYDN photographer, it seems logical to asume it was taken at one of the New York shows.

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I believe Cairo was chosen as this was the place in which Aleister Crowley resided while in Egypt. He wrote The Book of Law, dictating notes from a spirit called Aiwass in 1904. It's also just a stones throw away from the pyramids, and the Stele of Revealing at the Cairo Museum. He was still travelling in Egypt when the death of Karac occured.Meg

Eh? No he wasn't - they'd just arrived at New Orleans after another show. They were all at the hotel when Robert got the news.

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Eh? No he wasn't - they'd just arrived at New Orleans after another show. They were all at the hotel when Robert got the news.

No they weren't. Only Cole, Bonham and Plant were at the Hotel in New Orleans when Plant was informed Karac had died.

Meg

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He was not at the hotel in New Orleans on Tuesday the 26th, as you claimed.

Meg

You know Meg - you could be right there - I have a ton of books and magazines but not the world's best memory. I don't think you ARE right, and Keith Shadwick doesn't either, but I'll certainly concede if you are.

So now what about your claim that he wasn't at Karac's funeral because he was in Egypt "uncontactable"?

Edited by Knebby
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Richard Cole in Peter Grant's biography (p. 198) as well as his own book and Hammer of the Gods (p. 288) has stated that the reason why Page did not attend because he was in Egypt. Only Robert, Bonham and Cole flew back to England after hearing the news. Neither Peter Grant, John Paul Jones, or Jimmy Page could be with Robert or attend the funeral of Karac.

Meg

You know Meg - you could be right there - I have a ton of books and magazines but not the world's best memory. I don't think you ARE right, and Keith Shadwick doesn't either, but I'll certainly concede if you are.

So now what about your claim that he wasn't at Karac's funeral because he was in Egypt "uncontactable"?

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They all COULD have been there - they chose not to be.

I know perfectly well who flew home with Robert - and actually Denis Sheehan flew with them too.. That says NOTHING about who was there when the news was broken.

I prefer my sources over Richard Cole as a source any day of the week.

Jimmy's quote re Egypt

"I didn't want to come home, it was so good. I didn't go for long enough and with every day I was there family ties in England were pulling more strongly".

An odd quote under the circumstances.

Edited by Knebby
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They all COULD have been there - they chose not to be.

I know perfectly well who flew home with Robert. That says NOTHING about who was there when the news was broken.

I prefer my sources over Richard Cole as a source any day of the week.

Jimmy's quote re Egypt

"I didn't want to come home, it was so good. I didn't go for long enough and with every day I was there family ties in England were pulling more strongly".

An odd quote under the circumstances.

Jimmy Page was not in New Orleans on the 26th when the news broke, even if you choose not to believe Richard Cole. :rolleyes:

Meg

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Meg I have conceded I could be wrong despite all of the quotes I have describing the whole entourage checking in when Robert was given the message, and all of the personal conversations I have had regarding this.

Could you please offer me what you have that makes YOU so certain you are right about this?

Especially since Cole apparently contradicts himself - in his "Stairway To Heaven" book he claims "Bonham was the only member of the band who attended the services; Jimmy, John-Paul and Peter were still in the States."

He also says in the same book - like SAJ- that Jimmy's trip to Egypt was taken during the earlier break in the tour.

Jimmy WAS at the hotel when the news reached Robert - as was Jonesy, as were the entire entourage.

Even according to Richard Cole.

NB - off to bed now so don't feel I am ignoring any responses - will have to look at them tomorrow.

Edited by Knebby
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Thanks for conceding B) There is no substantive evidence to suggest Jimmy Page was at that New Orleans hotel on Tuesday July 26th. I believe Steve Jones in another post in another thread has also mentioned that he hasn't seen irrefutable evidence either.

Meg I have conceded I could be wrong despite all of the quotes I have describing the whole entourage checking in when Robert was given the message, and all of the personal conversations I have had regarding this.

Richard Cole has never said Jimmy was at that New Orleans hotel. Richard Cole however has said Jonesy was not at that hotel, he did say he was still on a camping holiday with his family. Cole has never stated those two were at that New Orleans hotel. Plant, Cole, and Bonham flew home to Birmingham via London. There is no irrefutable evidence Page and Jones were in New Orleans. Sure, some sources claim the "band" arrived at that hotel, but they are not specific on who within the band.

Jimmy WAS at the hotel when the news reached Robert - as was Jonesy, as were the entire entourage. Even according to Richard Cole.

Enjoy your sleep :D

Edited: Additional quote.

Edited by Meg Ireland
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Robert Plant's 'I Believe'

Journalist Deborah Frost of Spin magazine accompanied Robert throughout his June 1993 Italian tour and provided this review:

Bologne, Italy 'Roxy Bar' (television progam) June 13, 1993

Plant sings ‘I Believe’, perhaps for the first time to a live audience. Maybe it’s just as well that this one doesn’t understand English, and doesn’t stop bopping blissfully even as he is singing about his son’s cremation. But when he gets to the first chorus, all too naked without the supporting noise of a band or the comforts of his familiar echo, he chokes on the line that recalls how he told his daughter her “little brother is in the sky.” Practiced performer that he is, he salvages the moment by tossing his hand past his sunglasses, through his hair, in what will pass for yet another extravagant, campy rock gesture, but is really the brushing away of a tear.

----------------------------

An artistic statement as powerful as any the man has ever made. A genuine masterpiece.

It's so touching thank you for sharing. Robert Plant it seems never was the same as he emerged after this 1977 tragedy. I thought he just was all grown up all of a sudden, miles and miles from the Robert Plant of the Spring 1977 Chicago photoshoot. Gone was the daring aura. Dunno maybe just me, and I was like 3rd grade back then and I thought he looked older all of a sudden. In 1978 I started buying teenbeat cuz of Leif Garrett who less cuter had the bushy blonde hair mimicking Robert Plant's but younger and much less daddy-ish (also definitely not as talented lol). But I always kinda missed the "young" Robert Plant. Anyway, I really don't have a point, just that the pain of the man was real.

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