Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[mos6507]

In regards to the XYZ sessions, which commenced Feb 28, 1981, I believe that was primarily Alan White & Chris Squire of Yes writing and recording about seven tracks for

a proposed project with Page which Jimmy could not convince Robert to participate in. Have never seen any evidence to suggest Jimmy contributed anything to those sessions beyond the use of his Sol Studio. Jimmy actually did use some of Squire's ideas for The Firm years later.

If you listen to the clips on Youtube, Jimmy is clearly playing on them. Whether he contributed to the songwriting is up in the air. Both Squire and White both claim to have written the guitar riffs on Mind Drive and just directed Jimmy what to play. They can't both be right. Not sure about the other stuff.

[SteveAJones]

If you listen to the clips on Youtube, Jimmy is clearly playing on them. Whether he contributed to the songwriting is up in the air. Both Squire and White both claim to have written the guitar riffs on Mind Drive and just directed Jimmy what to play. They can't both be right. Not sure about the other stuff.

It's been years since I listened to those tracks and having just heard them again it's a harsh reminder of why that project went nowhere. Talk about mind-numbingly dull music that goes absolutely nowhere. Even so, to me the first seven seconds of Telephone Secrets sounds similar to The Firm's upbeat, rather enjoyable Spirit of Love.

Edited January 4, 2009 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Ah, that's troubling. For years I've seen this series of photos identified as being taken at Sol Studios, Cookham, in 1973 - unless I've gotten some wires crossed mentally, which is a distinct possibility:

Below is another taken from a different vantage point. Note how the window is an exact match to those on the second floor of Plumpton Place. I imagine it was taken when the camera crew was on the grounds to film his fantasy segment for TSRTS.

Edited January 4, 2009 by SteveAJones

[mos6507]

Talk about mind-numbingly dull music that goes absolutely nowhere.

I think most demos are like that. Jennings Farm Blues, for instance. It's a vamp and they go back and refine it later and add different movements. To me they sound like they were going for a Holst The Planets or Ravel Bolero thing. BTW, you must not like JPJ's solo stuff because most of it holds on riffs as long as Mind Drive does.

I think the finished Yes song is really good.

Edited January 4, 2009 by mos6507

[jabe]

Steve,I was absent from class the day this subject was introduced,if it ever was.

Who gets credit for the titles of each Led Zeppelin album,and, is there a story or meaning that goes with said title?

My take..I understand LZ I and LZ II.Their immense popularity by now,I could see LZ III having a different title.Their fourth album was so far ahead of the curve with its "title",or lack thereof.Then the remaining albums with non-numeric titles.Very interested to read what you know.

Anyway,I and countless others enjoy reading your historical perspectives on Led Zeppelin.

[3hrsoflunacy]

Yes, I believe you are correct on the date and location. My mistake. If you have seen it then that suggests it is not hoarded...and would certainly confirm it does exist.

Here you go, StairwayToBootHeaven on ALS located it when I mentioned it:

[SteveAJones]

Steve,I was absent from class the day this subject was introduced,if it ever was.

Who gets credit for the titles of each Led Zeppelin album,and, is there a story or meaning that goes with said title? My take..I understand LZ I and LZ II.Their immense popularity by now, I could see LZ III having a different title.Their fourth album was so far ahead of the curve with its "title",or lack thereof. Then the remaining albums with non-numeric titles.Very interested to read what you know. Anyway,I and countless others enjoy reading your historical perspectives on Led Zeppelin.

There are quite a few quotes in publication on their thoughts for each album, this is a quick summation:

The first three album titles were intended to put emphasis on the band's name. By the fourth, Jimmy knew they'd established themselves and came up with the "untitled" album concept as both an artistic statement and response to critics. HOTH was originally the band's reference to the concert venues hosting their shows and reflects the respect they had for their fanbase. Physical Graffiti is something Jimmy came up with whilst reflecting on the enormous amount of work that went into it's production. Presence, as I recall, was developed by Hipgnosis to accentuate the band's mystique. Recording sessions had completed the day before Thanksgiving '75 in Munich, and it was briefly

considered for release with the title Thanksgiving. In Through The Out Door was chosen because the music scene had changed so much and releasing a rock album was like going ITTOD - "the hardest way back in". Hipgnosis took their theme of releasing unfashionable music one step further and came up with the brown paper bag. I have heard JPJ suggested the title Coda for their final album but I still need to confirm that. There are quite a few quotes in publication on their thoughts for each album, this is a quick summation

Since we're discussing album titles, I'll add the astronaut album cover graphics on

the Early Days Latter Days are there because the original title, Blast Off!, was

changed by the label just prior to release. Page/Plant's The working title of Most High

for Page/Plant's second album was changed to Walking Into Clarksdale, explaining the angel wings on the front cover. The working title for Robert Plant's Dreamland was

Head First, because he'd had the music on it in his head for so many years.

[SuperDave]

Steve,

I'm pretty sure that "How The West Was Won" was suggested by JPJ. Title makes sense with a performance to more than back it up.

[Sibh23]

Here you go, StairwayToBootHeaven on ALS located it when I mentioned it:

Wasn't this also on some bootleg video compilations??, just because of BMS being synced over it, typical of those releases, also if you look at his channel all those videos are circulated (even Montreux right? not the legendary proshot by the way, just backstage 8mm).

Also, if you'd like SteveAjones, i could occasionally help you.

[SteveAJones]

Bray Film Studios

Site of Led Zeppelin's last rehearsal

September 24, 1980

[Nech]

Here's one for ya... Tried to search to see if I could find a topic concerning Zep ever being billed as the New Yardbirds? Remember that discussion Steve, on FBO? Either way I think the concensus was no they were never billed that way... till now...

here's something to chew on...

[Knebby]

Well its mis-informed anyway as their UK debut was at Newcastle Mayfair on October 8th. They were billed locally as "The Yardbirds" though (not "New" ), and that's what was on the ticket.

[Otto Masson]

Well its mis-informed anyway as their UK debut was at Newcastle Mayfair on October 8th. They were billed locally as "The Yardbirds" though (not "New" ), and that's what was on the ticket.

but it was even earlier, on October 4th.

[Knebby]

but it was even earlier, on October 4th.

you're right. I almost wrote 6th. My brain is addled today.

[reids]

Since we're discussing album titles, I'll add the astronaut album cover graphics on

the Early Days Latter Days are there because the original title, Blast Off!, was

changed by the label just prior to release. Page/Plant's The working title of Most High

for Page/Plant's second album was changed to Walking Into Clarksdale, explaining the angel wings on the front cover. The working title for Robert Plant's Dreamland was

Head First, because he'd had the music on it in his head for so many years.

Perhaps the astronaut album cover graphics were used/concept used, because in 1968, we went to the Moon (and Led Zep was launched as a band)???

R

[SteveAJones]

Here's one for ya... Tried to search to see if I could find a topic concerning Zep ever being billed as the New Yardbirds? Remember that discussion Steve, on FBO? Either way I think the concensus was no they were never billed that way... till now...

here's something to chew on...

Hi Nech. You've posted what is known as the "Marquee mailer", a promotional flyer sent

out prior to the gig. Here's additional details from a thread called "The Yardbirds Name"

I originally posted on April 30, 2008 (note Chris Dreja has since said words to the effect

the cease & desist order was "nothing heavy"...and the lawyer had acted on his behalf).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From April 30th 2008:

Funny you should ask as I have been investigating this privately for years. If Chris Dreja is to be believed, Jimmy's right to use the name was limited to fulfilling the Scandanavian tour The Yardbirds were still under contract for at dissolution of the band in July 1968. Dreja originally intended to join Page in the new lineup, but opted out to pursue a career in photgraphy (Dreja is credited with the photos on the back cover of 'Led Zeppelin').

Dreja allegedly issued a cease and desist order when he learned the name continued to be used upon their return to England. So far as is known, they only played one gig (The Mayfair in Newcastle on Oct 4 1968) before Jimmy and Peter met with graphic artist

George Hardie at The Marquee in London on Oct 18th to discuss with him Jimmy's Hindenburg concept for the front album cover.

Clearly, Jimmy Page was intent on changing the name in October 1968. The debate

centers upon if he was compelled to do so by a cease and desist order or if he freely

chose to change the name. It does not help Peter Grant has said Jimmy came away

with ownership of the name The Yardbirds (although he may have meant for the one

tour only).

The below would seem to help clarify this matter, but it only complicates it:

Oct 4 1968 Newcastle The Mayfair

Note: Billed as "The Yardbirds featuring Jimmy Paige" (sic)

Oct 18 1968 London Marquee

Note: Billed incorrectly as "The British Debut of The Yardbirds". Also billed as "The New

Yardbirds" in a promotional flyer mailed out prior to the gig.

Oct 19 1968 Liverpool Liverpool University

Note: Reported as last appearance of Yardbirds…Page will stay to form…Led Zeppelin

Oct 25 1968 Surrey Surrey University - Great Hall

Note: Debut performance billed as Led Zeppelin but there is a poster for this date billing them as "New Yardbirds featuring Jimmy Page"

Oct 26 1968 Bristol Bristol Boxing Club

Note: I have seen no confirmation of how they were billed for this date

Nov 9 1968 Camden Roundhouse

Note: Billed as "Yardbirds now known as Led Zeppelin"

Nov 16 1968 Manchester College of Science and Technology

Nov 23 1968 Sheffield Sheffield Univeristy

Nov 29 1968 Richmond Athletic Club

Note: I have seen no confirmation of how they were billed for these dates

Dec 10 1968 London Marquee

Note: Billed as "Led Zeppelin (nee The Yardbirds)"

Note: (Their performance contract was signed on November 27th 1968)

Dec 13 1968 Canterbury Canterbury Bridge Club

Dec 16 1968 Bath Pavilion

Dec 19 1968 Exeter City Hall

Note: I have seen no confirmation of how they were billed for these dates

Dec 20 1968 London Fishmonger's Arms

Note: Billed a "Led Zeppelin (formerly Yardbirds)"

My definition of "billed": how the performance was advertised/promoted. This does

not necessarily mean the band wanted it billed as such. Sometimes the promoters

did not respect the wishes of the band and promoted in whatever way they thought

would sell tickets.

Finally, here is some recent correspondence on the matter (from two days ago in fact):

----- Original Message ----

From: Steve A. Jones <undisclosed here>

To: <undisclosed here>

Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 9:24:45 PM

Subject: RE: <undisclosed here>

Jimmy (and Peter Grant) doesn't seem to agree with you on whom held ownership of the name. I know your position would be bolstered if the "cease and desist order" was made public. I understand that may never come to pass.

I'm not about to start arguing with you over it because I consider you my friend and value your perspectives. It seems to me Dreja, McCarty and Page have a lot of water under the bridge after 40 years!

Cheers,

SAJ

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:38:52 -0700

From: <undisclosed here>

Subject: Re: <undisclosed here>

To: Steve A. Jones <undisclosed here>

Steve,

That's not going to happen. I don't care if Jimmy doesn't agree, but he's never expressed this. Peter Grant can't obviously say anything. It all goes back to the same point - why all of a sudden did the group name change right after those Marquee shows? The group name didn't change because they felt like changing it. If Dreja says that he has the paperwork, that's good enough for me.

Just as important, why would Dreja leave himself open for a lawsuit if he made the paperwork public? This happened 40 years ago, nobody cares anymore and even I lost interest in it.

I run a much bigger publishing company than I had years ago - I have lots of things to worry about now - and this is so unimportant to me. I really don't care if people don't agree with what I presented - Jim, Chris and Keith's family are in full agreement with me. 3 against 1...case closed.

<undisclosed here>

In September 1971 Jimmy filed an injunction against Epic Records one week after the release of the album 'Live Yardbirds! Featuring Jimmy Page'

On February 15, 1977 Epic Records destroyed the masters, parts, and lacquers for the 'Live Yardbirds! Featuring Jimmy Page' album. Jimmy eventually received Epic's master tapes in the 1980s.

In December 2000 Jimmy cancelled a meeting established to resolve 'Live Yardbirds! Featuring Jimmy Page' royalties and ownership issues.

On January 22, 2001 Jimmy suggested to the other principles that he produce an album of all the Yardbirds Anderson Theatre and New York studio tracks. This offer was has yet to be accepted.

As you can see, generally speaking any Yardbirds release featuring Jimmy requires his authorization for commercial sale, while any he wishes to release featuring them requires consensus from Dreja, McCarty, Samwell-Smith and Keith Relf's estate. It's strictly business and the coordination can be complicated. Their induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (1/15/92) led to a flurry of authorized releases which otherwise may have languished on shelves in a vault.

It should be said I don't sense any real animosity amongst them. Jimmy even attended a reunited Yardbirds gig at the 100 Club in London (September 25, 1996), and while he spent most of the evening in the company of Jeff Beck he did call Chris (Dreja) the next day to compliment him on the performance.

Edited January 14, 2009 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Perhaps the astronaut album cover graphics were used/concept used, because in 1968, we went to the Moon (and Led Zep was launched as a band)???

That works as a cover concept for Early Days, but not so much for Latter Days. I'm not surprised Jimmy ensured both were phased out by Mothership.

[reids]

Yes. Agreed, Steve.

R

[Nech]

Regardless, everyone sidestepped the fact that the "Marquee Mailer" called them The New Yardbirds

[Knebby]

Regardless, everyone sidestepped the fact that the "Marquee Mailer" called them The New Yardbirds

I was actually refering to that when I made the point that they were misinfomed about it being their debut. I was saying that their information was clearly pretty dodgy anyway.

[FireOpal]

Bray Film Studios

Site of Led Zeppelin's last rehearsal

September 24, 1980

So the last rehearsal wasn't at Jimmy's house in Windsor? That's what I'd always read.

[chimp]

They were supposed to go to Bray the week after.

Windsor was the last rehearsal.

[bigstickbonzo]

They rehearsed at Bray on the 24th and returned to Page's house in Windsor that evening.

[SteveAJones]

Regardless, everyone sidestepped the fact that the "Marquee Mailer" called them The New Yardbirds

Actually, I mentioned Peter and Jimmy met with George Hardie in an upstairs room at the Marquee the day of this gig. Jimmy showed him the famous photo of the airship

in flames and said it was the image he wanted on the front of the album cover. My

point is by mid-Oct '68 Jimmy intended to change the name, regardless of how they

were being billed by promoters. The mailer does prove at least one promoter billed

them as The New Yardbirds, and the poster proves a second promoter did as well.

[SteveAJones]

They were supposed to go to Bray the week after. Windsor was the last rehearsal.

No, they rehearsed at Bray until 8pm on September 24th 1980. Their final rehearsal.