Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

I tried to find a video of this performance, but the video was taken down by Warners (WMG).

[Chicago]

3.) I have an Unledded promotional interview with Robert and Jimmy and Robert mentions that "it all this started with four guys above a hardware store". I was curious if that is the site on Gerrard Street?

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I don't think Robert was referring to Zeppelin , but more to the originators of early rock and roll. He mentions "4 guys kicking ass with a stand -up bass." Implying that this great form of music has devolved into the band Genesis and the like. It's pretty certain Jonesy wasn't using the stand-up bass on those initial jams on Gerrard Street.

[SteveAJones]

I don't think Robert was referring to Zeppelin, but more to the originators of early rock and roll. He mentions "4 guys kicking ass with a stand-up bass." Implying that this great form of music has devolved into the band Genesis and the like. It's pretty certain Jonesy wasn't using the stand-up bass on those initial jams on Gerrard Street.

If he said that then your assessment makes perfect sense, and I agree completely.

[SuperDave]

That's correct - December 15, 1984. Ahmet had called Robert a few weeks prior to this performance to inform him 'The Honeydrippers Volume One' had sold 100,000 copies. A commercial success beyond their wildest expectations, with 'Sea of Love' becoming a hit single.

I can't think of any other Christmas songs the members of Led Zeppelin have performed

publicly or on record. Perhaps I've overlooked one, but it's really not their forte.

Thanks for the info Steve.

Sea Love, I believe peaked at number 3 on the Billboard singles charts. That's the highest for any Led Zeppelin or post-Zep single. Whole Lotta Love had made it to number 4.

[widget]

"Pride and Joy" by Coverdale-Page peaked at No. 1 on the Billboard Mainstream Rock chart. "Whole Lotta Love" peaked at No. 1 in Australia and No. 2 in quite a few countries.

Meg

Thanks for the info Steve.

Sea Love, I believe peaked at number 3 on the Billboard singles charts. That's the highest for any Led Zeppelin or post-Zep single. Whole Lotta Love had made it to number 4.

[SuperDave]

"Pride and Joy" by Coverdale-Page peaked at No. 1 on the Billboard Mainstream Rock chart. "Whole Lotta Love" peaked at No. 1 in Australia and No. 2 in quite a few countries.

Meg

Meg, I was referring to the Billboard Hot 100 Singles Chart and not the offshoot ones such as the ones you mentioned and for the U.S. as well.

[Midlands Stickman]

Hi, first post in this thread which I enjoy reading on a regular basis. Now a question about something that's a mystery to me at least.

Page's back injury has been discussed here before. I've seen people hinting on different forums that the back injury was not the real reason for Page backing out of the Black Crows collaboration. Any truth to these rumours? If so, can they be discussed here?

[dave2007]

Thanks for the info Steve.

Sea Love, I believe peaked at number 3 on the Billboard singles charts. That's the highest for any Led Zeppelin or post-Zep single. Whole Lotta Love had made it to number 4.

Didn't "Come with Me" get to number 2 ?

[Zanadu]

Edit. I had a question here but decided to take it away. Sorry, and nevermind.

Edited January 30, 2009 by Zanadu

[SuperDave]

Didn't "Come with Me" get to number 2 ?

Forgot about that one. It's possible. Someone should check that and see if it's true.

[SteveAJones]

Hi, first post in this thread which I enjoy reading on a regular basis. Now a question about something that's a mystery to me at least. Page's back injury has been discussed here before. I've seen people hinting on different forums that the back injury was not the real reason for Page backing out of the Black Crowes collaboration. Any truth to these rumours? If so, can they be discussed here?

It was indeed a back injury which resulted in cancellation of all 40 remaining tour dates arranged from August 13 - December 12 2000. At end of the year Jimmy left England

for Florida where he continued to undergo physical therapy for several more weeks. All

I have refrained from posting to this forum is how the injury occured, as it is a source

of embarrassment to him.

Having said all that, the assertion he simply bailed out is absurd given the ramifications

cancelling the tour had. Not to mention they'd just resumed the tour on the west coast after a one month break. Had he wanted to end the collaboration he could have done so from the comfort of home in England, well before that leg of the tour.

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

I think that the confusion of the legitimacy of the back injury comes from the BBC and Rolling Stone Magazine reporting that Jimmy performed on Saturday and on a Monday Jay Leno show without apparent injury or problems. So the media fuled the speculation that he really wasn't injured.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/881209.stm

http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/jimmyp...ck_crowes_shows

[SteveAJones]

I think that the confusion of the legitimacy of the back injury comes from the BBC and Rolling Stone Magazine reporting that Jimmy performed on Saturday and on a Monday Jay Leno show without apparent injury or problems. So the media fuled the speculation that he really wasn't injured.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/881209.stm

http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/jimmyp...ck_crowes_shows

Oh, I see. Well, they ought know he flew back to L.A. following the Albuquerque gig on

Saturday night. Injury was made known privately on Sunday, and he made his decision to proceed with the Mon, 5pm taping of 'The Tonight Show' at that same time. Even

so, all remaining dates were subsequently cancelled.

Performing 'The Wanton Song' for tv may or may not have aggravated it, but the fact

of the matter is he knew he was injured before walking into NBC Studios in Burbank.

[swandown]

Didn't "Come with Me" get to number 2 ?

"Come With Me" charted at #2 in the UK and #4 in the US. It's the only top-5 UK single by any member of Led Zeppelin.

[SteveAJones]

Terry Manning talks about the third Led Zeppelin record:

OK, where to start on Zeppelin? (Couldn't find the multitracks; they must have been thrown away from our tape vault when we did a major clean out!)

I'll try to do the story, but keep it as short as possible.

I met Jimmy Page while playing in a regional band based in Memphis. The Yardbirds (which then included Page) were playing on this Dick Clark Caravan of Stars tour. They were one of the stars; we weren't. Dick would pick up locally or regionally known groups (cheap) to fill out the tour with some opening acts. I was a HUGE Yardbirds fan, so I made sure to seek out JP. Beck was playing lead, and I think Jimmy was actually on bass at the time, and also doing occasional rhythm guitar. Clapton had already left. The next tour the 'Birds did, I made sure to go and hook back up with them, although we weren't playing on that one. I went to several shows, but one in particular I remember was at Murray State University in Kentucky. Jeff Beck had just quit the group, so Jimmy was taking over lead guitar duties. This was his first night as leader...we all wondered: "Could he handle it?" Don't worry though, he could. After the show, JP rode back with me through the night to Memphis, and we arrived at Ardent Studios very early in the morning. I showed him around the studio, we played guitar a bit, and he really wanted my '52 Telecaster which I had brought out. He offered to trade even for Beck's Esquire, which had been left behind. I've always wondered if I should have made that trade...but it didn't seem quite right to take Jeff's guitar, when he wasn't there to defend himself. We decided to keep in close touch, and Jimmy asked if I might be interested in either joining, or recordin,g his new band that he wanted to put together someday. Sounded interesting to me. I said OK. He was going to call it The New Yardbirds.

This "new" group did come about, slowly. I decided not to leave the recording situation I was in, as things were going great at Stax, but I said I might be around if needed for any engineering work. The New Yardbirds played around a bit, with not huge success, but a couple of their songs would resurface on the first Zeppelin album, I think "Dazed and Confused" and "How Many More Times," but it's been many years since I heard those by the 'Birds. Jimmy wanted to change the group name to something original, and find a couple of new members. He decided on a singer who was also a friend of mine, Terry Reid (I had taken the album cover photo, and done the layout, for TR's second album). Terry was a great guy and a great singer, and he wanted to do it, but his manager/producer, Mickey Most, wouldn't let him out of a contractual obligation, so Terry suggested the singer from Robert Plant and The Band of Joy. That singer was Robert Plant. The drummer, I think, for that same group was John Bonham. Jimmy knew John Baldwin, aka John Paul Jones, from the session musician scene around London, and the four of them got together to try things out. Jimmy told me that about two songs into the first rehearsal, in the middle of a great sounding piece, everybody just started looking around at each other and laughing. It was obvious right from the start that they had "IT."

Of course, they recorded the first album, and the rest is history, as they say. JP sent me a cassette of the first one well before release...wish I knew where that was right now! Then the second one took things to a higher level yet. Jimmy called me to ask if I would move to London and set up their own private studio for them. I actually did start immigrations paperwork to do this, and had made long equipment lists, contacts with suppliers, etc., but again, there was so much else going on, I decided not to go. Jimmy understood, but asked if I would be available if they got into a jam with any new recordings. I said OK.

Well, it turned out that they did get into time trouble. There was a big tour totally scheduled, and it was to coincide with the release of the third album. But they got way behind getting ready for the recording, and the start was delayed so much, that by the time they got some of it recorded (at Olympic in South London, with Andy Johns, brother of Glyn), it was time to leave for the tour, with the album only partly done. This could be a marketing disaster. JP called me and asked if he could come in to record in Memphis in short spurts, that is, in between shows. I said OK. So they would play a show or two, and on the days off, JP and whomever (always Peter Grant, as well) would fly in. I would pick up at airport, and drive directly to the old Ardent studio at 1457 National Street. We overdubbed things, tracked some things, and edited and mixed everything. I had just taken delivery of a new 3M 16 track 2", which was good, as that's what the previous tracks were recorded on. But Dolby's were required, which we didn't have, so I had to scramble with Ray to get the units needed there quickly (A's, the big grey 2 chan ones). I recorded with Jimmy at Olympic in London already for some bits, so I was familiar with most things already.

Mics which were used were just the standard mics I always used. 67's, 87's, 47's, EV (RE15?) or Shure (I think 545?). We didn't have or use any Sennheiser's yet. They hadn't really made it to the US in any big way at that time. Neumann was the king, except you had to deal with Gotham Audio in NY, which I must admit was not much fun. So I found a dealer in Germany, and would get mics sent in directly from there, which infuriated Gotham. On drums, John wanted as few mics as possible. He would say the HE would control the levels and dynamics, not the engineer. And he could. I believe there were sometimes 3 mics, two on the kit (only because stereo was getting popular) and a bass drum mic. But on some songs there was only one kit mic and a bass drum one. I distinctly remember panning from centre for the normal kit, to left for the beginning of a tom roll, then on through to the centre and then right for the rest of the roll, then quickly back to centre for the normal beat again. Pretty high tech! Had to be fast, though. Jimmy also helped with occasional fader moves or pans when there was too much for me to do alone (no automation, of course, and I still don't really like automation).

For guitars, I think there were Neumann "pencil" mics on acoustics, either 84's or their predecessors, or perhaps 86's, if they were around by then. Electrics would vary from 47 or 67 on softer sounds to EV or Shure on louder ones. A great story from Jimmy was that he did the amazing solo on "Since I've Been Loving You" as an overdub in one take, through some strange amp that had been left in the studio by another group, with no real "messing around with the sound." Just plug in and go...there was a second take attempt, but it couldn't be bettered. Now I think this is one of the best rock guitar solos ever...such feeling. Another story was that Jimmy said A. Johns had some secret technique to get doubling effects, or delays, that he (JP) didn't remember, but he wanted to use it. So I called Andy to find it out, He really didn't want to divukge this, but jimmy insisted, so he told me that he'd turn the tape around backwards and "pre delay" a sound (with a tape delay), then turn the tape back right and "undelay" it with varispeed tape delay to get the right timing. Worked like a charm.

As for mic pre's...no one ever heard of, or thought of, any outboard mic pre's then...that's what the console was for. It was full of mic pre's...so we used them. As nostalgic, vintage, or mythological as it may seem to people now to have worked in these (supposedly) golden days with all that vintage gear, it just wasn't thought of in that way at that time. We just used what we had, and did the best we could. That's the same thing I'm doing today, only it's not with Jimmy Page, and some (but not all) of the gear is newer. Again, the console at Ardent was a SpectraSonics. This one was not one of the ones built by Dilly in Utah, but by Welton Jetton in Memphis, under license from Dilly, and using Dilly's spec'd parts. It was simple, and sounded great. But not a lot of the "features" known today. We did also have some SpectraSonics limiters, which I always thought were OK, a bit "hard," but not as good as my 176's. I think the console at Olympic was a Helios, so those would have been the pre's there.

Anyway, we mixed to 1/4" tape. There were some extra mixes, which I still have today on the original 1/4", that we thought were WAY too radical to use...no one would have accepted them, we thought. I hear them now and wonder what the differences really were! I then took the masters to Auditronics (also owned by Mr. Jetton) for mastering. I made all the decisions on EQ, comp, etc., approved by Jimmy, who was also there. Peter Grant was present as well. I remember that the first time I got "that feeling" that this was something special (I never think much about this sort of thing while in the recording or mixing process, because there's just too much to do) was when I went to the bathroom down the hall while "Loving You" was playin out of the mastering room door. It sounded pretty good, and I realized that Plant's vocal was awfully distinctive on this one.

We cut several sets of parts, and I inscribed the sayings into the lead out groove spaces (very carefully). Jimmy was a huge fan of Aleister Crowley, the "first hippy," and Crowley's philosphies. He had given me the books, which I read, and was interested in, but I found it a little too free and unrestricted, that one could do anything one wanted. I remember asking Jimmy at mastering if it was OK to kill someone if you "felt like it." He wasn't amused. But I wrote "Do what Thou Wilt" on one side of one set, and "Shall Be The Whole of The Law" on the other side of the same set. I remember writing "So mote it Be" on one side of another set, but I've forgotten the rest. We joked that with different things written on different lacquers, real fans would have to buy 2 or more records to complete the set! This was absurdly funny to us, as we couldn't imagine anything like that might really happen.

Then I took the masters, carefully boxed in grouped sets, and put them in the trunk of John Fry's Mercedes, and drove them to Nashville where LZ was playing their next show. There I gave them to Peter Grant, who had them delivered by hand to the various pressing plants. Atlantic never saw them, nor had anything to do with them, at Peter's insistence.

Everyone asks "Wow, what was it like to work with Zeppelin," and I can only answer that it was just like today, only the people and songs were different. Usually it is only with hindsight that things seem historical, or become mythologized. One great thing Jimmy did I will never forget. When the LZ3 album covers came back from the printing plant, to be joined with the vinyl pressings, Jimmy looked at the for approval, and found that they had left off the credit for me that he had written to be there. So he had them all destroyed, and completely re-printed to include my credit! What a guy! And these were pretty expensive and involved covers, with the spinning photo wheel and all!

Well, that's a lot for now. Maybe I'll think of some other stories later...got to get back to more vocal comping.

Best to all,

Terry

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So there you have it, but I must say I'm unsure about the accuracy of Terry's recollections having seen Jimmy with The Yardbirds. The Dick Clark Caravan of Stars tour ran from 10/28/66 thru 11/27/66 and the closest TN gig to Memphis was the University of Tennessee Field House in Martin, TN on 11/17/66 (about 136 miles away). I've never seen any confirmation of them having played in Murray, KY but it may well have been during their eight-day North American tour without Jeff which ran 12/26/66 thru 1/2/67 as five of the seven cities remain a mystery to this day. I am looking into this further.

[mos6507]

Having said all that, the assertion he simply bailed out is absurd given the ramifications

cancelling the tour had. Not to mention they'd just resumed the tour on the west coast after a one month break. Had he wanted to end the collaboration he could have done so from the comfort of home in England, well before that leg of the tour.

Right, but what remains unknown is how much the back injury played into Jimmy's inactivity since then. He was really on a tear from 1998 onwards and was exhibiting a newfound youthful enthusiasm for touring when interviewed with the Crowes. Even if he recovered after a few weeks, maybe this was a dose of the reality of age that pushed him into semi-retirement after working too hard, or he felt that if he jumped back on the road it would have looked bad for the insurance company. But you have to concede that the shift from touring around the world to sitting on the couch was abrupt, and he really did not communicate his intentions at all to his fans.

[ally]

Right, but what remains unknown is how much the back injury played into Jimmy's inactivity since then. He was really on a tear from 1998 onwards and was exhibiting a newfound youthful enthusiasm for touring when interviewed with the Crowes. Even if he recovered after a few weeks, maybe this was a dose of the reality of age that pushed him into semi-retirement after working too hard, or he felt that if he jumped back on the road it would have looked bad for the insurance company. But you have to concede that the shift from touring around the world to sitting on the couch was abrupt, and he really did not communicate his intentions at all to his fans.

This is pure speculation on my part but I wonder if sobriety issues played a part . By that I mean, did he possibly decide it was time to get sober

[Wolfman]

Hi Steve. Here's a two-part Zep/Grateful Dead question. I remember reading that the Dead arrived at some photographer's house for a photo shoot. Zep were already there doing one and while they were, Pig Pen, the famous Dead keyboardist (and known prankster) started shooting his gun off. Supposedly, the boys freaked out and quickly left. I find this a little hard to believe (esp. if Peter Grant was there). If it's true, do you know who shoot the photos of Zep, and are they available for public viewing?

Also, I remember reading that Jimmy had contacted Jerry Garcia about advice on the steel-pedal guitar for Zep III. Did they actually meet up and if so, any details? Thanks.

P.S. Also, any other Dead/Zep stories to share?

[Bingo]

Jerry and Jimmy jamming together would've been something. Two similar guitar players just a different approach.

[SteveAJones]

Right, but what remains unknown is how much the back injury played into Jimmy's inactivity since then. He was really on a tear from 1998 onwards and was exhibiting a newfound youthful enthusiasm for touring when interviewed with the Crowes. Even if he recovered after a few weeks, maybe this was a dose of the reality of age that pushed him into semi-retirement after working too hard, or he felt that if he jumped back on the road it would have looked bad for the insurance company. But you have to concede that the shift from touring around the world to sitting on the couch was abrupt, and he really did not communicate his intentions at all to his fans.

IMHO, his inactivity coincided with raising his children. It was he whom rose early to

send them off to school. By his own admission, he missed out on much of Scarlet's

formative years and he was determined to be there for his children this time around.

As I understand it, the insurance concerns stemming from cancellation of the tour

only necessitated six months of no public performances.

[SteveAJones]

Hi Steve. Here's a two-part Zep/Grateful Dead question. I remember reading that the Dead arrived at some photographer's house for a photo shoot. Zep were already there doing one and while they were, Pig Pen, the famous Dead keyboardist (and known prankster) started shooting his gun off. Supposedly, the boys freaked out and quickly left. I find this a little hard to believe (esp. if Peter Grant was there). If it's true, do you know who shoot the photos of Zep, and are they available for public viewing?

Also, I remember reading that Jimmy had contacted Jerry Garcia about advice on the steel-pedal guitar for Zep III. Did they actually meet up and if so, any details? Thanks.

P.S. Also, any other Dead/Zep stories to share?

There is a shared photographer connection between Led Zeppelin and the Grateful Dead

and it is Herb Greene, whom Peter Grant had commissioned to photograph Led Zeppelin. The session was held at an abandoned opera house in San Francisco called The Loft in

January 1969. I don't think the Grateful Dead were there, but as you know they were a mainstay of the San Francisco music scene at the time. Perhaps their paths crossed. I

can't say for certain at the moment if the Pig Pen firearm anecdote is true (sounds far fetched) nor if Jimmy sought Jerry's advice. I can certainly look into it. They must have performed on the same bill over the years and may have met then. Here is a link to one of the Herb Greene photos from The Loft (there are many others on the net):

http://www.herbgreenefoto.com/gallery/led_zepplin.shtml

Having said all that, I can share with you one confirmed connection between Led

Zeppelin and The Grateful Dead: On 10/13/94 Jimmy & Robert were in NYC doing

promo work for 'No Quarter' and attended the first night of The Grateful Dead's six shows at Madison Square Garden. They observed how TGD allowed fans to record in designated taper's sections and consequently similar arrangements were made for the first leg of their own 1995 North American tour.

[SuperDave]

Having said all that, I can share with you one confirmed connection between Led

Zeppelin and The Grateful Dead: On 10/13/94 Jimmy & Robert were in NYC doing

promo work for 'No Quarter' and attended the first night of The Grateful Dead's six shows at Madison Square Garden. They observed how TGD allowed fans to record in designated taper's sections and consequently similar arrangements were made for the first leg of their own 1995 North American tour.

Thanks Steve. Nice bit of info there. I had wondered why and how they allowed taping for some of their 1995 shows and now I know.

[eternal light]

The Grateful Dead had been allowing the audience to record long before the 1990s.

[Wolfman]

Having said all that, I can share with you one confirmed connection between Led

Zeppelin and The Grateful Dead: On 10/13/94 Jimmy & Robert were in NYC doing

promo work for 'No Quarter' and attended the first night of The Grateful Dead's six shows at Madison Square Garden. They observed how TGD allowed fans to record in designated taper's sections and consequently similar arrangements were made for the first leg of their own 1995 North American tour.

I was actually at that show. I remember that word was spreading through the crowd that P/P were there. It would have been incredible if they came on stage and jammed with the Dead. Dylan showed up on one of the other nights at MSG and did two encores with them. I was pissed because my girl and I bought fake tix from some scalper that a cop told us was safe to use (for the Dylan show). I could be wrong but I get a feeling that they weren't a huge fan of our boys. The Dead seemed to do a ton of tributes to other classic rock bands (Stones, Beatles, Who, Dylan, Warren Zevon, etc.) but never Zep. It wasn't until the new version of the Dead (post-Jerry) that they did a Zeppelin tune (OTHAFA). I think Warren Haynes had a lot to do with that. Anyone ever hear any Dead quotes about Zeppelin (good or bad)? I've heard Robert refer to them in the latter years and of course, like I said before, I remember reading that Jimmy consulted Jerry about the Steel Pedal for LZIII. Not sure what that actually means or if it actually happened.

Oh yeah, my girl and I also went to the NYC premier of Unledded at some theater in the city. Steve, do you know which theater it was? It was one of those things that you supposedly could only win from a radio station but we got in after my girl flashed one of the DJs (I know...classy). P/P were advertised as being there but they never made an appearance. They supposedly went to the China Club later that night. We tried but couldn't get in there. Aw, those were magical times.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Wolfman

[ninelives]

The Dead do a great version of "Nobody's Fault But Mine"