ASCAP Can Cripple Small Venues

[Jahfin]

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2008-01-10/m...le-small-venues

Denton's Rubber Gloves was told to pay up more than $8,000 to the industry giant

Rubber Gloves Rehearsal Studios, where no one has ever played "The Gambler".

Courtesy of Rubber Gloves

By Noah W. Bailey

I don't know about you, but when I pay cover at Rubber Gloves, the Double Wide or the Granada, I would rather not see any of the money going to the Black-Eyed Peas. In a roundabout way, however, this is often exactly what happens.

Organizations such as ASCAP (The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers), BMI (Broadcast Music Inc.) and SESAC (Society of European Stage Authors & Composers) were founded in the first half of the 20th century to protect the rights of artists and songwriters, creating networks with which to collect royalties from radio, TV and live performances of copyrighted material. It was a system that worked beautifully in its time, but times have changed.

In recent decades, ASCAP and BMI have both become more aggressive in pursuing monetary compensation from music venues, restaurants and retail establishments that feature live or recorded music (though some satellite radio and jukebox services include the price of licensing in their fees). Whether it's a 20-piece band playing the swing hits of yesteryear in a dinner club or an 18-year-old playing Joni Mitchell songs in a coffeehouse corner, the organizations have shown they're perfectly willing to do whatever it takes to get the money that legally belongs to their artists, no matter how logical or illogical it may seem. ASCAP even went after summer camps and Scout organizations in the mid-'90s, claiming that fireside performances of "Puff the Magic Dragon," "One Tin Soldier" and the like entitled the publishers to royalty fees.

Of course, no one's arguing that a club that books a large number of cover bands shouldn't pay up (by all means, ASCAP, anything you can do to bring Firewater to its knees would be awesome). But Josh Baish, owner of Denton's Rubber Gloves, has had a hard time coming to terms with why his business should submit to the music publishing mafia.

"[ASCAP] was after me for $8,465 [in back fees]," says Baish. "After talking to their rep, he says, 'OK, well I'm gonna knock off all these interest payments' and this, that and the other...so pay me $500. It's just like he pulled that number out of his ass. OK, you're hitting me up for $8,000 and then, OK, now it's at $500. I mean, where is the scale, you know? You're sliding all over the place."

ASCAP has, however, offered to help Baish get right in the eyes of the law, offering him the chance to purchase a blanket license—to the tune of $1,700 a year. That doesn't include the amounts BMI and SESAC will undoubtedly come calling for if he pays their competitor. For a small venue such as Rubber Gloves, these fees could easily break the bank. And if he doesn't pay, the prospect of ASCAP suing him is very real—and did we mention they've never lost a case? (In such suits ASCAP often seeks fines of $30,000 per copyrighted song played—if the owner of the venue is unaware of the violation. If bands play a cover with the owner's permission, the fine skyrockets to $150,000 per song).

Make no mistake—Baish claims he's perfectly willing to pay artists. He just doesn't see how it's fair when a smaller venue such as Rubber Gloves is held to the same standard as a venue that books nothing but cover bands. "I try to be honest with them and go, 'Look, I can't tell people not to play covers.' I had this sign on the side of the stage, and that was laughed off...it's gonna happen. We don't hire cover bands, but if someone throws in a cover, then by all means, monitor it, write down the [original artist] and let me cut 'em a check."

Unfortunately, this is not how ASCAP operates. According to ASCAP representative Vincent Candilora, that method just isn't economically feasible. "You could submit a list of all the songs that have been performed," he says. "Now whenever anybody submits what they're performing, we're gonna have to, at some point, go in and audit, maybe at least once a year...The costs of auditing, the costs of receiving these set lists from all the establishments in the country that are using live music...that would have them paying fees higher than what the straight blanket license is.

"In principle I understand where they're coming from," he says. "But from an economic standpoint, it's just not a very good way to do it."

Instead, ASCAP takes those fees and uses a computer system to assign royalties to member artists on a scale based on the sampling of play lists from satellite, Internet and terrestrial radio. ASCAP members can also submit music-use reports of their own compositions, though the amount given out for such reports amounts to little more than $3 million a year, Candilora says. Basing how royalties are distributed on radio airplay is fine and dandy if you're, say, Fergie or Lee Greenwood. But what if you're Brent Best of Slobberbone and the Drams, who, outside of a brief romance with Lone Star 95.3 FM, has a presence on the airwaves best likened to a drop in the ocean?

As Best himself recently put it on the popular Denton Rock City message board, "I am an ASCAP member. This means that I should collect money, based upon their system of the tracking of 'use' proportional to said 'use' of my music. Problem is, their bullshit system is the biggest one-sided bell curve you've ever seen...In the end, I, or anyone else 'represented' by ASCAP make no money proportional to what I sell or what of mine is used unless or until I'm as big as Mariah Carey or who-the-fuck-ever. In fact, all those publishing songwriters affiliated with ASCAP who aren't on that monetary level actually make money for those who are. If I go from selling 10,000 albums a year to 40,000, along with the predictable increase in 'use' (such as jukebox plays and the like), I will never see a proportional increase in royalty payout from ASCAP. Instead, the extra money I earn, along with the thousands of other artists on the lower rungs earning progressively more, will go the top 2 or 3 percent of ASCAP artists already earning millions a year from their vapid shit." (The fact that Candilora mentioned favored Celine Dion songwriter and schlockmeister Diane Warren while conversing on the subject kinda sorta almost confirms this, in my mind at least.)

Considering Denton artists near and dear to his heart are also getting short shrift, it's no wonder Baish doesn't want to comply. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have much of a legal leg to stand on. In fact, it's a wonder anyone wants to open a club these days, given the hassles.

Sure, the ASCAP representative I talked to was polite and forthcoming. But I also got a slight whiff of the strong-arm tactics employed by the company, whose representatives are probably somewhat less cordial when chatting up your average club owner. "You know, it's not like this is [big] dollars," says Candilora, senior vice president of licensing for the organization. "And when they look at what the possible damages are under the copyright law, it's just stupid for them not to take a license and do it the right way.

"There are places who said to us, 'Look, we just do new material. We have them sign a form when they perform here that they're only gonna play their own material and that they're giving us the performance right.' And I said that's fine. But if one of the licensing reps hears them play 'The Gambler,' and it isn't Don Schlitz standing up there, that's infringement of copyright. And quite frankly, since you have gone through the effort of doing this, it clearly tells us that this isn't an ignorant performer. You know what the law is, and you've got a willful infringement." In other words, you might end up owing ASCAP up to $150,000, if you make it to court without surrendering.

"Do you know those folks there [at Rubber Gloves]?" says Candilora. "If you do, you'd be doing them a favor if you told them that we're down to our very last resort with them...it's going on five years. That's a long time to be ignoring the law. Like I said, it's a last resort that we sue people. I'd say the clock has ticked pretty well here."

[ally]

http://www.dallasobserver.com/2008-01-10/m...le-small-venues

Denton's Rubber Gloves was told to pay up more than $8,000 to the industry giant

Rubber Gloves Rehearsal Studios, where no one has ever played "The Gambler".

Courtesy of Rubber Gloves

By Noah W. Bailey

I don't know about you, but when I pay cover at Rubber Gloves, the Double Wide or the Granada, I would rather not see any of the money going to the Black-Eyed Peas. In a roundabout way, however, this is often exactly what happens.

Organizations such as ASCAP (The American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers), BMI (Broadcast Music Inc.) and SESAC (Society of European Stage Authors & Composers) were founded in the first half of the 20th century to protect the rights of artists and songwriters, creating networks with which to collect royalties from radio, TV and live performances of copyrighted material. It was a system that worked beautifully in its time, but times have changed.

In recent decades, ASCAP and BMI have both become more aggressive in pursuing monetary compensation from music venues, restaurants and retail establishments that feature live or recorded music (though some satellite radio and jukebox services include the price of licensing in their fees). Whether it's a 20-piece band playing the swing hits of yesteryear in a dinner club or an 18-year-old playing Joni Mitchell songs in a coffeehouse corner, the organizations have shown they're perfectly willing to do whatever it takes to get the money that legally belongs to their artists, no matter how logical or illogical it may seem. ASCAP even went after summer camps and Scout organizations in the mid-'90s, claiming that fireside performances of "Puff the Magic Dragon," "One Tin Soldier" and the like entitled the publishers to royalty fees.

Of course, no one's arguing that a club that books a large number of cover bands shouldn't pay up (by all means, ASCAP, anything you can do to bring Firewater to its knees would be awesome). But Josh Baish, owner of Denton's Rubber Gloves, has had a hard time coming to terms with why his business should submit to the music publishing mafia.

"[ASCAP] was after me for $8,465 [in back fees]," says Baish. "After talking to their rep, he says, 'OK, well I'm gonna knock off all these interest payments' and this, that and the other...so pay me $500. It's just like he pulled that number out of his ass. OK, you're hitting me up for $8,000 and then, OK, now it's at $500. I mean, where is the scale, you know? You're sliding all over the place."

ASCAP has, however, offered to help Baish get right in the eyes of the law, offering him the chance to purchase a blanket license—to the tune of $1,700 a year. That doesn't include the amounts BMI and SESAC will undoubtedly come calling for if he pays their competitor. For a small venue such as Rubber Gloves, these fees could easily break the bank. And if he doesn't pay, the prospect of ASCAP suing him is very real—and did we mention they've never lost a case? (In such suits ASCAP often seeks fines of $30,000 per copyrighted song played—if the owner of the venue is unaware of the violation. If bands play a cover with the owner's permission, the fine skyrockets to $150,000 per song).

Make no mistake—Baish claims he's perfectly willing to pay artists. He just doesn't see how it's fair when a smaller venue such as Rubber Gloves is held to the same standard as a venue that books nothing but cover bands. "I try to be honest with them and go, 'Look, I can't tell people not to play covers.' I had this sign on the side of the stage, and that was laughed off...it's gonna happen. We don't hire cover bands, but if someone throws in a cover, then by all means, monitor it, write down the [original artist] and let me cut 'em a check."

Unfortunately, this is not how ASCAP operates. According to ASCAP representative Vincent Candilora, that method just isn't economically feasible. "You could submit a list of all the songs that have been performed," he says. "Now whenever anybody submits what they're performing, we're gonna have to, at some point, go in and audit, maybe at least once a year...The costs of auditing, the costs of receiving these set lists from all the establishments in the country that are using live music...that would have them paying fees higher than what the straight blanket license is.

"In principle I understand where they're coming from," he says. "But from an economic standpoint, it's just not a very good way to do it."

Instead, ASCAP takes those fees and uses a computer system to assign royalties to member artists on a scale based on the sampling of play lists from satellite, Internet and terrestrial radio. ASCAP members can also submit music-use reports of their own compositions, though the amount given out for such reports amounts to little more than $3 million a year, Candilora says. Basing how royalties are distributed on radio airplay is fine and dandy if you're, say, Fergie or Lee Greenwood. But what if you're Brent Best of Slobberbone and the Drams, who, outside of a brief romance with Lone Star 95.3 FM, has a presence on the airwaves best likened to a drop in the ocean?

As Best himself recently put it on the popular Denton Rock City message board, "I am an ASCAP member. This means that I should collect money, based upon their system of the tracking of 'use' proportional to said 'use' of my music. Problem is, their bullshit system is the biggest one-sided bell curve you've ever seen...In the end, I, or anyone else 'represented' by ASCAP make no money proportional to what I sell or what of mine is used unless or until I'm as big as Mariah Carey or who-the-fuck-ever. In fact, all those publishing songwriters affiliated with ASCAP who aren't on that monetary level actually make money for those who are. If I go from selling 10,000 albums a year to 40,000, along with the predictable increase in 'use' (such as jukebox plays and the like), I will never see a proportional increase in royalty payout from ASCAP. Instead, the extra money I earn, along with the thousands of other artists on the lower rungs earning progressively more, will go the top 2 or 3 percent of ASCAP artists already earning millions a year from their vapid shit." (The fact that Candilora mentioned favored Celine Dion songwriter and schlockmeister Diane Warren while conversing on the subject kinda sorta almost confirms this, in my mind at least.)

Considering Denton artists near and dear to his heart are also getting short shrift, it's no wonder Baish doesn't want to comply. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't have much of a legal leg to stand on. In fact, it's a wonder anyone wants to open a club these days, given the hassles.

Sure, the ASCAP representative I talked to was polite and forthcoming. But I also got a slight whiff of the strong-arm tactics employed by the company, whose representatives are probably somewhat less cordial when chatting up your average club owner. "You know, it's not like this is [big] dollars," says Candilora, senior vice president of licensing for the organization. "And when they look at what the possible damages are under the copyright law, it's just stupid for them not to take a license and do it the right way.

"There are places who said to us, 'Look, we just do new material. We have them sign a form when they perform here that they're only gonna play their own material and that they're giving us the performance right.' And I said that's fine. But if one of the licensing reps hears them play 'The Gambler,' and it isn't Don Schlitz standing up there, that's infringement of copyright. And quite frankly, since you have gone through the effort of doing this, it clearly tells us that this isn't an ignorant performer. You know what the law is, and you've got a willful infringement." In other words, you might end up owing ASCAP up to $150,000, if you make it to court without surrendering.

"Do you know those folks there [at Rubber Gloves]?" says Candilora. "If you do, you'd be doing them a favor if you told them that we're down to our very last resort with them...it's going on five years. That's a long time to be ignoring the law. Like I said, it's a last resort that we sue people. I'd say the clock has ticked pretty well here."

Fuck Me.... Things are worse than I thought. Christ , if they grandfathered this shit there wouldn't have been any music at all. WTF... are these music Nazi's ever going to stop !!!!

[Jarlaxle 56]

Seriously, do any of the artists really give a fuck? If I go and cover a Led Zeppelin song or a Pearl Jam song, are they really going to be pissed they didn't get payed for a live performance of a song or will they be proud people enjoy their music? It's just stupid and unfair to ask for money for people who aren't playing the ORIGINAL recording. It would be like me getting sued for reciting a quote from a book in public, it's stupid. These people are just pocketing the money, how much of it actually goes to the artist?

[spatdrastik]

I have always hated this aspect of the music business...It's hard enough to find places to play without forcing people to pay ridiculous sums because a bunch of kids are butchering "enter sandman"...Let the mass media cough up the royalties for distributing it to millions, rather than some small club owner who has 200 people in the room on a good night

[ally]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't generated more response. This stuff was being discussed casually around Vancouver a couple of years back and kind of disappeared. It scares the shit out of me to think that it's really happening. As was mentioned, I can't believe the original artists give a shit about royalties. Talk about cloak and dagger... Faaaaaaaak

[ally]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't generated more response. This stuff was being discussed casually around Vancouver a couple of years back and kind of disappeared. It scares the shit out of me to think that it's really happening. As was mentioned, I can't believe the original artists give a shit about royalties. Talk about cloak and dagger... Faaaaaaaak

P freakin' S What the hell is going to happen to High School Sock -Hops. That is of course, if these things go on anymore. If they do...and I hope they do... It will be nothing but canned music . JEEEEEEEZ.... OK , I'll get off my soap box now....that is unless I have to PAY to do so because, I DIDN"T INVENT THAT SAYING !!!!!!!!!!!

[Zephyrus]

unless you're a 100% cover/tribute band, you should only have to pay royalties if you 1) release a record of a live performance containing covered songs 2) release a studio record containing covered songs or 3) appear on the radio/tv/internet in a performance while playing a covered song

[PJD]

As for all the people asking if the artists really care i can answer that question quite easily: Yes they care a lot.

And $1,700 is not a lot at all for a blanket license. Anybody who knows about the nightclub business knows that the cost are massive, I'm willing to bet that guy pays a ton in insurance for his club, I'm willing to bet he has a liquor license, why should he be exempt from a blanket license for music? I am also willing to bet that ASCAP's system for calculating fees is fatally flawed but the bottom line is where music is performed by artists that didn't write the material there is an obligation to compensate the people who wrote the music. This bullshit idea that songwriters should just be glad people enjoy their music is juvenile and uninformed. If they don't get paid how much music do you think they will be able to make? Nobody is pocketing the money either, ASCAP has a fairly transparent account system; it's the distribution of money that these lesser known writers like Mr.Best are bitching about in that article.

Let me ask you guys, have you ever heard of Slobberbone and the Drams? NO! And we've never heard of Brent Best either before this article because even at 40,000 units there is not a significant amount of 'use' on a national level. Find me a Jukebox with Slobertones, or a television show using their music or a website with a performoing license streaming their music on demand? People don't realize the bulk of the ASCAP monies come from Television and radio play. If you aren't getting any you won't get a bigger ASCAP check! I could sell one million records and if nobody played it on TV or the Radio and nobody is covering my songs I won't be seeing a ton of money from my PRO. It sounds like a lot of sour grapes directed at writers like Dianne Warren who have been co-writing #1 hits for years. What is regarded as commercially viable music is a systemic problem that involves many players at many levels and to be miffed at you PRO because they pay the writers of successful songs you regard as sub-par is ridiculous. I'm willing to bet if Slobberbone and the Drams sold 4 million copies of their record and were all of a sudden being used in television and film and all over the radio the system would look a lot more fair to Brent Best.

The bigger problem is there is an entire generation of fans that think music should be free and when faced with the reality that music is a business they get all bent and accuse big business of ruining it when ASCAP and BMI are quite literally the last line of defense for the bands we all love that write their own music.

[Jahfin]

Let me ask you guys, have you ever heard of Slobberbone and the Drams? NO! And we've never heard of Brent Best either before this article because even at 40,000 units there is not a significant amount of 'use' on a national level. Find me a Jukebox with Slobertones, or a television show using their music or a website with a performoing license streaming their music on demand? People don't realize the bulk of the ASCAP monies come from Television and radio play. If you aren't getting any you won't get a bigger ASCAP check! I could sell one million records and if nobody played it on TV or the Radio and nobody is covering my songs I won't be seeing a ton of money from my PRO. It sounds like a lot of sour grapes directed at writers like Dianne Warren who have been co-writing #1 hits for years. What is regarded as commercially viable music is a systemic problem that involves many players at many levels and to be miffed at you PRO because they pay the writers of successful songs you regard as sub-par is ridiculous. I'm willing to bet if Slobberbone and the Drams sold 4 million copies of their record and were all of a sudden being used in television and film and all over the radio the system would look a lot more fair to Brent Best.

I've heard of Brent Best, the Drams and Slobberbone. In fact Brent is one of my very favorite songwriters and I'm a longtime follower of his work, including his bands the Drams and Slobberbone.

[PJD]

I've heard of Brent Best, the Drams and Slobberbone. In fact Brent is one of my very favorite songwriters and I'm a longtime follower of his work, including his bands the Drams and Slobberbone.

Are you kidding? Might I ask where you heard of Brent?

[GetTheLedOut]

Seriously, do any of the artists really give a fuck? If I go and cover a Led Zeppelin song or a Pearl Jam song, are they really going to be pissed they didn't get payed for a live performance of a song or will they be proud people enjoy their music? It's just stupid and unfair to ask for money for people who aren't playing the ORIGINAL recording. It would be like me getting sued for reciting a quote from a book in public, it's stupid. These people are just pocketing the money, how much of it actually goes to the artist?

Hell I've had my songs covered (not that I'm a member of ASCAP), and to me that's just free advertisement. I think there's something to be said about what they're trying to do, however this truly is abuse.

[Jahfin]

Are you kidding? Might I ask where you heard of Brent?

I first heard of Slobberbone via an interview Brent and some other members of the band did with the now defunct website Welfare Music (which was named after a song by the Bottle Rockets) a number of years ago (I'm thinking late 90s). Then, a friend gifted me with a copy of Everything You Thought Was Right Was Wrong Today and it was all over, I quickly went out and purchased the rest of their catalog (which admittedly wasn't a lot at the time). They were also doing a lot of shows with a couple of my other favorite bands, the Gourds and the Drive-By Truckers but I unfortunately never saw any of those bills. My first Slobberbone show was during a New West Records showcase during SXSW back in '01. Over the years I've managed to catch at least a couple more Slobberbone shows (one at the Mercury, also in Austin), one Drams show this past summer and one Brent solo show (also this past summer) when he passed through town in support of the Just One More tribute to the late author Larry Brown. If you check the My Favorite Concerts of 2007 thread I believe you'll see where I mentioned both the Drams and Brent shows from this past year. In regards to this article itself, it was posted on the Drive-By Truckers list on Yahoo Groups with a reference to Brent's quotes. I've mentioned Brent, the Drams and Slobberbone numerous times on this board over the years but very rarely (if ever) encountered any other fans of the band. That's too bad as he is one of the very best songwriters out there performing today.

[greenman]

Seriously, do any of the artists really give a fuck? If I go and cover a Led Zeppelin song or a Pearl Jam song, are they really going to be pissed they didn't get payed for a live performance of a song or will they be proud people enjoy their music? It's just stupid and unfair to ask for money for people who aren't playing the ORIGINAL recording. It would be like me getting sued for reciting a quote from a book in public, it's stupid. These people are just pocketing the money, how much of it actually goes to the artist?

I wouldnt be at all supprized if 90% goes towards the running of ASCAP, BMI and SESAC.

[PJD]

Hell I've had my songs covered (not that I'm a member of ASCAP), and to me that's just free advertisement. I think there's something to be said about what they're trying to do, however this truly is abuse.

Free advertising for what? No offense but you are obviously not making a living as a songwriter otherwise you would (hopefully) understand that the Performing Rights Organizations (PRO) were formed to address the problem of unscrupulous publishers trying to channel monies owed to the writers into their own pockets. If you ever have a song on a commercial release I would strongly recommend affiliation with either ASCAP or BMI or else if the song ever makes it way into a notable use (such as the background of a scene on a television show) you will never collect the residuals that are due to you and miss on an excellent revenue stream.

But free advertising? Again, for what? If your writing songs with the intention of pitching them to performers for inclusion on their release how do you think you will be paid if the song is used anywhere other than the CD/iTune? If you are writing songs for use in anything, if you do not affiliate, you will not be paid the bulk of the money owed to you.

[PJD]

I first heard of Slobberbone via an interview Brent and some other members of the band did with the new defunct website Welfare Music (which was named after a song by the Bottle Rockets) a number of years ago (I'm thinking late 90s). Then, a friend gifted me with a copy of Everything You Thought Was Right Was Wrong Today and it was all over, I quickly went out and purchased the rest of their catalog (which admittedly wasn't a lot at the time). They were also doing a lot of shows with a couple of my other favorite bands, the Gourds and the Drive-By Truckers but I unfortunately never saw any of those bills. My first Slobberbone show was during a New West Records showcase during SXSW back in '01. Over the years I've managed to catch at least a couple more Slobberbone shows (one at the Mercury, also in Austin), one Drams show this past summer and one Brent solo show (also this past summer) when he passed through town in support of the Just One More tribute to the late author Larry Brown. If you check the My Favorite Concerts of 2007 thread I believe you'll see where I mentioned both the Drams and Brent shows from this past year. In regards to this article itself, it was posted on the Drive-By Truckers list on Yahoo Groups with a reference to Brent's quotes. I've mentioned Brent, the Drams and Slobberbone numerous times on this board over the years but very rarely (if ever) encountered any other fans of the band. That's too bad as he is one of the very best songwriters out there performing today.

Well that is cool to hear, I thought you were being facetious but I'll will have to check out his stuff.

That still doesn't change the fact that most of his complaints amount to a lot of whining about what he feels to be sub-par writers making more than him. ASCAP only tracks the top 200 grossing domestic tour and bases the blanket license fees on that. Now an excellent point to be made here is that NONE of the top 200 grossing tours go through the types of clubs mentioned in that article so why should those guys be paying? Well most likely ASCAP treats 'touring' revenue as quite literally touring licenses that promoters pay when they promote a major tour. Many arena's do not have blanket licenses and leave the onus on the promoter.

I'd also like to point out that the sources you heard about Brent Best are places where ASCAP does not collect money. Very few websites have blanket licenses and CD's pay the writers via a mechanical license issued by the songwriter's publisher to the record label releasing the song.

[PJD]

double post

[Jahfin]

Well that is cool to hear, I thought you were being facetious but I'll will have to check out his stuff.

That still doesn't change the fact that most of his complaints amount to a lot of whining about what he feels to be sub-par writers making more than him. ASCAP only tracks the top 200 grossing domestic tour and bases the blanket license fees on that. Now an excellent point to be made here is that NONE of the top 200 grossing tours go through the types of clubs mentioned in that article so why should those guys be paying? Well most likely ASCAP treats 'touring' revenue as quite literally touring licenses that promoters pay when they promote a major tour. Many arena's do not have blanket licenses and leave the onus on the promoter.

I'd also like to point out that the sources you heard about Brent Best are places where ASCAP does not collect money. Very few websites have blanket licenses and CD's pay the writers via a mechanical license issued by the songwriter's publisher to the record label releasing the song.

Sources? I named Welfare Music because you asked how I knew of Brent Best. It wasn't a venue but a web site devoted to reviews and interviews with alt.country artists. I don't see what that has to do with songwriting royalties as they don't even enter the picture.

[PJD]

Sources? I named Welfare Music because you asked how I knew of Brent Best. It wasn't a venue but a web site devoted to reviews and interviews with alt.country artists. I don't see what that has to do with songwriting royalties as they don't even enter the picture.

Sorry, I misunderstood you, I thought you heard his music on the site. But that is my point, his main exposure comes through channels that have nothing to do with performance royalties! Here is a guy who doesn't have any use that would warrant increased ASCAP payments complaining about not getting more money from ASCAP! From what I understand BMI is willing to make some sort of arrangements for original acts that do extensive touring while ASCAP will not. It might behoove Mr. Best to try and get his affiliation switched. I also noticed that he doesn't have that many songs registered. Only 39 See HERE

Also FWIW many of his complaints could also be the result of poor administration from his publisher, who I noticed is Bug Music. They are not terribly well known for their administration and I'm willing to bet his catalog is not their top priority. If they do not register the works properly and subsequent audio/visual uses then he won't be getting paid. Of course it's easier to blame ASCAP. That means if one of his songs is used in a TV movie of the week, BUT his publisher does not get cue sheets (a list of what songs are played in the movie and for how long) into ASCAP or worse still never registered the song with them at all, there is a very good chance it could fall by the way side and he wouldn't be paid his performance monies for that use, only the initial synch fee.

[Jahfin]

I hear Brent, Slobberbone and the Drams very frequently on XM satellite radio. They also get played on more progressive stations nationwide. I'd say that's pretty "public".

[rockthing]

PJD, I'm getting the feeling you work for ASCAP, you'd better come clean if you do.

Are you making a list of all the venues people mention on the board to turn over to ASCAP.

That was quite a conclusion to jump to in your misunderstanding of what Jahfin was talking about when he mentioned how he'd heard of Brent. Eerily reminds me of police questioning tactics.

(paranoiac reactionary rant to follow, enjoy)

Even though it was a misunderstanding the implication that a website talks about an ASCAP artist and have to pay? Jeez, how the heck are people supposed to find out about these lesser known artists? If you can't play their CD, you can't cover their song, and you can't even talk about them on a website?

Sure, grassroots will never match the marketing behemoth granted to scantily clad busty songstresses, but how are these people supposed to get exposure?

Next thing the ASCAP will be knocking on my door because I was playing a CD when my friend came over... 'son, that constitutes a public performance'

The hypocrisy of the ASCAP is also astounding.

They complain of the costs of patrolling their charges and cop out to this blanket computer controlled pay-out system because it's too expensive to receive set lists and audit clubs.

They don't mind strapping cafes promoters and small clubs with completely random sums of money, but heaven forbid they actually do what their members are paying them for. You have to pay them to protect your song rights as well as pay them to license those rights, but they can't shell out to enforce them properly. L-A-M-E.

Between ASCAP and the RIAA

the concept of enjoying and sharing life together with others is soon to be banned. We'll all be issued (for an annual fee equal to our annual income) our terminal, headphones and IV drip and never have contact with another human being again. It'll be cheaper and safer since no one will be able to afford the risk of whistling in the street.

[PJD]

PJD, I'm getting the feeling you work for ASCAP, you'd better come clean if you do.

No, i do not for for ASCAP, BMI, SEASAC, MCPS-PRD, CMRRA, or any other PRO?

Are you making a list of all the venues people mention on the board to turn over to ASCAP.

That was quite a conclusion to jump to in your misunderstanding of what Jahfin was talking about when he mentioned how he'd heard of Brent. Eerily reminds me of police questioning tactics.

Is this a joke?

Even though it was a misunderstanding the implication that a website talks about an ASCAP artist and have to pay? Jeez, how the heck are people supposed to find out about these lesser known artists? If you can't play their CD, you can't cover their song, and you can't even talk about them on a website?

No, what I'm saying is if you are promoting your record on channels that do not pay a blanket license to performing rights societies even though you may be raising your visibility as an artist you are not increasing the amount of use in area's where ASCAP would pay you.

Sure, grassroots will never match the marketing behemoth granted to scantily clad busty songstresses, but how are these people supposed to get exposure?

Grassroots guys can get as much exposure as they want, they just should not expect to get paid for it from their PRO if is through non-traditional and unlicensed channels.

The hypocrisy of the ASCAP is also astounding.

They complain of the costs of patrolling their charges and cop out to this blanket computer controlled pay-out system because it's too expensive to receive set lists and audit clubs.

They don't mind strapping cafes promoters and small clubs with completely random sums of money, but heaven forbid they actually do what their members are paying them for. You have to pay them to protect your song rights as well as pay them to license those rights, but they can't shell out to enforce them properly. L-A-M-E.

Are you missing the hypocrisies of this article? We've got a small club owner complaining his licenses fee is too high and a guy who plays small clubs complaining that he doesn't get paid when he plays more small clubs. Now can you see why Will.I.Am is getting so much more than Brent Best? Every single black eyed peas song you hear is through a PRO licensed channel, unless you own their CD of course, generating constant performance monies.

And how do you think the writers would feel if there were 50% fewer dollars to distribute because they spent that much more and got pretty much the same results. Everybody forgets that BMI and ASCAP are a non-profit organization, not a for profit venture. They are strictly going after their clients money.

Between ASCAP and the RIAA

the concept of enjoying and sharing life together with others is soon to be banned. We'll all be issued (for an annual fee equal to our annual income) our terminal, headphones and IV drip and never have contact with another human being again. It'll be cheaper and safer since no one will be able to afford the risk of whistling in the street.

As I read this I thought to myself dear god where does this hippie dippie music is free and let's all hug stuff come from and I saw the Dead logo in your sig. Totally perfect, the biggest taper free music sharing tribe on earth! Makes total sense now.

Don't worry dude, another day; another hackey sack game.

[PJD]

I hear Brent, Slobberbone and the Drams very frequently on XM satellite radio. They also get played on more progressive stations nationwide. I'd say that's pretty "public".

Yeah it's public but as a total percentage of all songs played on the radio in the U.S. I'd say it's pretty insignificant use wise. And that is my point, that the uses small artists get are spit in the bucket by percentages so their payout of the total pie should be reflective of that and it becomes even more difficult when the avenues through which these artists perform do not report their cue sheets correctly.

[ally]

I wouldnt be at all supprized if 90% goes towards the running of ASCAP, BMI and SESAC.

That's the main problem. I suspect that this is just a money grab and the artists are no better off for it. These guy's remind me of pimps

[greenman]

That's the main problem. I suspect that this is just a money grab and the artists are no better off for it. These guy's remind me of pimps

I can see how it may have been needed in the early 20th century when live performance was the main source of income, a song writter in that era needed to collect live royalties to get any money.

While I'm agenst mass illegal DLing the approach record companies and there stooges have talken towards that and other royalty issues disgustes me. Threatening individuals and small businesses with life destroying cash claims to either force them to except a smaller claim or to "set an example", less reasponible business and more mafia/jack the ripper.

[ally]

I can see how it may have been needed in the early 20th century when live performance was the main source of income, a song writter in that era needed to collect live royalties to get any money.

While I'm agenst mass illegal DLing the approach record companies and there stooges have talken towards that and other royalty issues disgustes me. Threatening individuals and small businesses with life destroying cash claims to either force them to except a smaller claim or to "set an example", less reasponible business and more mafia/jack the ripper.

I'm all for law and order... but this type of thing is another fine example of some best laid plans going astray. It has a CONTROL component that I think all of us come across all too often in daily life. Hell I can think of plenty of examples where a user fee may be appropriate. This isn't one of them. Here come the laugh police.... I better go now