The Who Thread

[dazedcat]

When Townshend's website was still up and running, he posted a PDF file explaining his views about pornography and what he was researching and why he was doing so. This was a full year before he supposedly got "caught" by an always "well intentioned" group (who nobody heard of prior to this event). I don't know Townshend, have never met him and probably never will. I tend to believe him though based on what he posted on his old website.

And yes, the new DVD is a must have. The bonus '69 show is priceless. The Who were the best band to ever grace a stage.

Regards;

[GetTheLedOut]

Top for for sure. But not as good as Led Zeppelin.

I think it's so funny that so many Zep fans can't stand it when any one person says Zep wasn't the greatest ever... so insecure.

[ZepFanatic]

I'm a huge fan of both The Who and Zeppelin! Glad to see others around here as well!!

[beatbo]

feel free to enlighten me on how looking at pornographic images of children is a "mistake"?

it's not a mistake, as you call it, it's just wrong!

it's not a mistake it's a sign of a perverted mind!

the "mistake" he made was was he got caught!!

like i said - take his name off the s.o register if he is innocent, until then i fail to see any argument in his favour!

ok.....this calls for the full story-or, at least, the fullest i can find. i will try to include both sides of the issue and as many details as i can track down. my interest in this is not only my own personal appreciation of townshends music (and that of his vehicle, the who) but in my own ongoing ignorance of the issue since the report back in 2003.

1. the guardian UK -may 8, 2003

Pete Townshend put on sex offenders register

Thursday 8 May 2003 09.00

rock star Pete Townshend was yesterday cautioned by police and placed on the sex offenders register for five years following his admission that he accessed child pornography on the internet.

Townshend, 57, received the caution at Kingston police station in south-west London for "accessing a website containing child abuse images".

He was arrested in January as part of Operation Ore, the largest investigation into child pornography in the UK. He admitted using his credit card to access images but claimed they were for "research" for a book.

Scotland Yard said in a statement: "At 12.00 today the musician Pete Townshend was formally cautioned for accessing a website containing child abuse images in 1999.

"After four months of investigation by officers from Scotland Yard's child protection group, it was established that Mr Townshend was not in possession of any downloaded child abuse images.

"He has fully cooperated with the investigation.

"As a routine part of the cautioning process fingerprints, a photograph and a DNA sample will be taken; additionally in these cases, the person concerned will be entered on the sex offenders register for a period of five years."

In a statement released by an aide outside his mansion in Richmond, south-west London, Townshend insisted that police had "unconditionally accepted" that he was looking at the site as research for his "campaign" against child pornography.

"From the very beginning I acknowledged that I did access this site and that I had given the police full access to all of my computers," said the former member of the Who.

"As I made clear at the outset, I accessed the site because of my concerns at the shocking material readily available on the internet to children as well as adults, and as part of my research towards the campaign I had been putting together since 1995 to counter damage done by all kinds of pornography on the internet, but especially any involving child abuse.

"The police have unconditionally accepted that these were my motives in looking at this site and that there was no other nefarious purpose, and as a result they have decided not to charge me."

The Scotland Yard statement stressed that access and payment for child abuse images was an offence.

"Inciting others to distribute these images leads to young children being seriously sexually assaulted to meet the growing demands of the internet customer. It is not a defence to access these images for research or out of curiosity."

Child abuse campaigners condemned the leniency of Townshend's punishment, and said he should get professional help.

Jennifer Bernard, from the children's charity NSPCC, said: "Every child seen on an internet pornography site is a real child who is likely to have been abused time and time again.

"Only a quarter of children report sex abuse and many feel that they have no one to turn to.

"People who pay to access these sites are injecting cash into a criminal and manipulative industry that sexually exploits and seriously damages children."

The children's charity NCH said Townshend's crime was "not a small matter".

John Carr, the charity's internet safety adviser, said: "It is not an acceptable defence and it only helps to keep the child porn industry going."

2. the butler report

Pete Townshend of the WHO

and his child porn connection

August 1, 2008

On May 7th something quiet but quite remarkable happened. Pete Townshend (63), guitarist of the band the WHO, was scheduled to have his Sexual Offender status dropped from the British Violent and Sex Offender Register (ViSOR). A confirmation of the action is pending.

Mr. Townshend was arrested in January 2003 as part of Operation Ore, the largest investigation into child pornography in the UK. He admitted using his credit card to access child abuse images but claimed they were for "research" for a book in 1999. (Emphasis added by the Guardian Newspaper - see link below). Mr. Townshend was one of 1,600 people arrested in the UK from details given to an American child porn website.

He avoided a charge but was cautioned by the British police and his name placed on the Sexual Offender Register for five years. No evidence of downloaded child pornography was found on his home computers. He did admit that he access the child porn site.

The British NCH children's charity said it was not satisfied with Mr. Townshend's defense. John Carr, its internet safety advisor, said: "We hope that anybody else out there who might be looking at using the internet to get child pornography for the purposes of research is now properly warned."

"It is not an acceptable defense and it only helps keep the child porn industry going."

And a spokesman for Phoenix survivors, a group that represents victims of child abuse, said it was appalled at the "leniency" of the punishment.

He said: "He (Mr. Townshend) still insists that curiosity is a fair excuse for the sexual exploitation of children."

When asked, a spokesman from Florida's Tampa Bay Police Department's Child Abuse Unit told this writer that “research” is one of the most commonly used excuses by perpetrators of child pornography site visitation.

You be the judge.

Why bring this up? Because the U.S. allows Mr. Townshend entry into the United States against published INS regulations.

The US Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) specifies numerous grounds on which a consular officer can find an applicant ineligible for a visa and inadmissible to the United States. Applicants excludable on criminal and related grounds are the following: "Aliens convicted of, and those who admit having committed a crime involving moral turpitude (or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime)." Many have fallen foul of these regulations.

Take, for example, Lilly Allen, the British singer, who was refused a visa after she assaulted a photographer some time ago in London. A Welch acquaintance of the writer was arrested in New York on a DUI in 2000. His next trip back to the US resulted on his being turned back at the Immigration desk in New York.

Pete Townshend on the other hand comes and goes from the U.S. with impunity. Why is he allowed to do this when his admitted offense - for which he was arrested and cautioned - resulted on his being placed on a Sex Offender list? In the U.S. we punish child sex crimes with draconian ferocity and rightly so.

Mr. Townshend is no exception.

The WHO, featuring Pete Townshend, are playing nationwide in October.

3. associated content.com- OPINION

Pete Townshend Should Not Be Given Kennedy Center Award

December 29, 2008 by Evin Daly

CBS will air the 31st Annual Kennedy Center Honors on Tuesday, December 30th, acknowledging such notables as Morgan Freeman, George Jones, Barbra Streisand, Twyla Tharp, Pete Townshend & Roger Daltrey.

Child AbuseWatch.net (CAN), a U.S. child sexual abuse prevention organization, has objected and demanded that Townshend's award be withdrawn in light of his 2003 - 2008 listing on the UK Violent and Sexual Offender Registry (ViSOR) for accessing, paying for and viewing child pornography.

In an article featured in the ButlerReport.com in August 2008 entitled "Pete Townshend of the WHO and his child porn connection," it was brought to America's attention that Townshend had recently been eligible for removal from the UK Sexual Offender database after a five year mandatory registration for being caught - and admitting to - accessing Internet child pornography. Full article here.

Townshend was registered as a sex offender in 2003, following a police investigation, for viewing online child pornography. Cleared of possession of child pornography he was ordered placed on the British Violent and Sexual Offender Register (Visor) for five years.

The Kennedy Center award is completely inappropriate given the circumstances surrounding Townshend's admission to accessing, paying for and viewing child pornography. At the time of his arrest, Townshend offered that he was doing "research," which according to the FBI law enforcement publication "Child Molesters: A behavioral analysis" (P.93) is a frequently used excuse used by individuals when caught.

CAN has sent a letter of protest to the Kennedy Center admonishing them over their insensitivity to child sexual abuse issues. In addition to having Townshend's award rescinded CAN has asked the Kennedy Center to issue an apology for their insensitivity to child sexual offense issues.

"There are few people in the world who would be given an award of any kind with a background like Townshend's. I believe this is a case of 'celebrity oversight' as regular people would find it impossible to secure employment being registered on VISOR let alone allowed a visa to enter the U.S.," CAN has an ongoing campaign contacting U.S. governmental departments, the White House and federal law enforcement to draw attention to Townshend's unfettered access to the U.S. According to the US Immigration and Nationality Act (INA), it specifies numerous grounds on which a consular officer can find an applicant ineligible for a visa and inadmissible to the United States.

Applicants who can be excluded on criminal and related grounds are the following: "Aliens convicted of, and those who admit having committed a crime involving moral turpitude (or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime)." [Emphasis added] Townshend admitted accessing, paying for and viewing child pornography; that constitutes a crime by INA definition and a reason for non-issuance of an entry Visa to the U.S.

Child AbuseWatch.net is a national child sexual abuse prevention organization (www.abusewatch.net) which provides prevention resources to the general public, law enforcement and health care professionals.

http://www.injusticebusters.com

. . .You can't repeat what you put 'round , all the things that made me cry, you kicked me when I was down and they hurt me all those lies, Lies La La La La La La Lies -- Pete Townshend, The Who Sings My Generation (1965) La La La Lies

Pete Townshend & the porn police

A website has been established to tell the full story of the Pete Townshend case. They are also circulating a petition to have Townshend removed from the dangerous offender's list. This is an educational website and contributes greatly to understanding how the childporn industry works. The suggestion that internet service providers and credit card companies be assigned to police this industry poses some problems. Childporn must be controlled at the source. Those who use actual children to create the images or artifacts must be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. We are in a time when technology allows artists to create images that are breathtakingly realistic. Nabakov created a nymphette from his imagination and many courts have fought to establish the legitimacy of Lolita. The Canadian case of Eli Langer is also very much to the point. The right of artists and intellectuals to choose the subjects they wish to explore must not in any way be restricted.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Townshend Charge Dropped

No child porn downloads found on seized computerAugustin Sedgewick, Rolling Stone, May 7, 2003

After an investigation that lasted nearly four months, police in London cleared Pete Townshend yesterday on charges that he downloaded child porn from the Internet. Computer equipment seized by officials from Scotland Yard at the time the Who guitarist's arrest in January failed to turn up any illicit downloads, police said. Investigators did confirm that Townshend had accessed a site containing such images in 1999; as a result, he was listed on a national register of sex offenders.

"From the very beginning," Townshend said in a statement, "I acknowledged that I did access this site and that I had given the police full access to my computers. As I made clear at the outset, I accessed the site because of my concerns at the shocking material available on the Internet to children as well as adults, and as part of my research toward the campaign I had been putting together since 1995 to counter damage done by all kinds of pornography on the Internet, but especially any involving child abuse."

Just after his arrest -- part of an international Internet porn sting called Operation Ore -- Townshend had maintained he accessed the site to research for his autobigraphy, since he suspected he was abused as a child.

In February, Massive Attack's Robert Del Naja was also arrested as part of Operation Ore. He was also cleared without charge in March.

Don't believe lies! (note from beatbo: OPINION

If you believe Pete Townshend is a pedophile you'll believe everything. His arrest underscores the zealous and dangerous nature of the internet witchhunt which has scooped up far more innocents than guilty parties.

The warning that anyone who downloads material from a child porn site will be subject to the same kind of public humiliation Townshend has endured with his very public arrest should scare the bejeebers out of artists and intellectuals.

I am forced everyday to look at images of things I would never dream of supporting or participating in -- human bodies blown apart or starving or displayed in ways I find unseemly; car crashes, despoiled natural settings, McDonald's commercials, etc. Having seen the images my opinion is informed. I develop my own filters to ignore what is truly intolerable. We all do this. Otherwise we would go mad.

For years I am being asked to believe that there are thousands and thousands of people partipating in the proliferation of millions of images of children being subjected to sexual acts. It strains credulity. Yet if I were to go looking for such images to see what is actually out there, so I coud report back to people who prefer not to view for themselves but who trust me as a reporter, I could be picked up by the police and branded as a pedophile in the media.

I guess I would have had a hard time believing what the Nazis did to the victims of the holocaust were it not for the documentation: Those piles of handbags and buckets of teeth are still pretty hard to take. I read in an interview with Ward Churchill that Andrew Jackson had horses' bridles made of Indian skin. His face is on the U.S. twenty dollar bill. I also recently saw some people interviewed who collect memorobilia including trading cards featuring serial killers. I'm glad I know about these people. Knowing these people exist and seeing the stuff that turns them on does not tempt me to become one of them.

If there really is the amount of child porn out there which the detectives assure us there is, let's have a look at it. Knock the shock value out of it. Desensitize it. Maybe Britney Spears could make a video. But please don't ask me to trust porn police who have already demonstrated that they La La La Lie.--Sheila Steele, Jan. 13, 2003

Pete Townshend Is Arrested in Porn Case

By ED JOHNSON Associated Press Writer, Jam. 13, 2002

LONDON (AP)--Pete Townshend, the legendary rock guitarist and co-founder of The Who, was arrested Monday on suspicion of possessing indecent images of children, police said.

Townshend has acknowledged using an Internet Web site advertising child pornography, but said he was not a pedophile and was only doing research for an autobiography dealing with his own suspected childhood sexual abuse.

Police said they arrested Townshend, 57, under the Protection of Children Act after executing two searches at a business and a home in Richmond, Surrey, the town outside London where he lives. They said they took computers from the home and were examining them.

Townshend was not charged with a crime. Under British law, suspects are not charged immediately upon arrest and some people who are arrested are eventually released without charge.

Townshend was being held at a southwest London police station.

In a statement on Saturday, Townshend said that on one occasion he used a credit card to download pornographic images as part of his research and that he reported what he saw to police.

Townshend, who helped form The Who in the early 1960s, said he believed he was ``sexually abused between the age of five and six and a half.''

``I cannot remember clearly what happened, but my creative work tends to throw up nasty shadows--particularly in 'Tommy.' Some of the things I have seen on the Internet have informed my book, which I hope will be published later this year,'' he added.

The title character in Townshend's rock opera ``Tommy''--a deaf, dumb and blind pinball wizard--is sexually abused by an uncle.

Earlier Monday, a group of police officers arrived at Townshend's Richmond home, one carrying a plastic crate containing packaging to store potential evidence.

His lawyer John Cohen told reporters the meeting with police was by ``mutual agreement.''

``We approached the police this morning and said that we should meet,'' he said.

Townshend, unshaven and wearing a black jacket, left his house by a side entrance at 7:20 p.m., about four hours after police arrived, and was driven away.

Scotland Yard later announced that a 57-year-old man was in custody on suspicion of making and possessing indecent images of children and of incitement to distribute them. A police spokesman, speaking on condition of anonymity, confirmed that the suspect was Townshend.

The arrest came as part of Operation Ore, a crackdown on people who view child pornography on the Internet.

British police have arrested 1,300 suspects as part of the sweep, including a judge, magistrates, dentists, doctors and a deputy school headmaster. Fifty police officers also have been arrested, and eight have been charged with offenses.

Operation Ore is the British arm of an FBI-led operation which traced 250,000 suspected pedophiles around the world through credit card details they used to pay for downloading child pornography. The names of British suspects were passed on to police here by U.S. investigators.

Townshend's friend, the model Jerry Hall, said Sunday he was an ``avid supporter'' of child welfare groups and had spoken at length about the dangers of child pornography on the Internet.

Daltrey, Townshend's bandmate from The Who, said: ``My gut instinct is that he is not a pedophile and I know him better than most.''

But Internet watchdogs have dismissed Townshend's explanation for entering an Internet site dealing with child pornography.

Mark Stephens, a lawyer and vice chairman of the Internet Watch Foundation said: ``It is wrong-headed, misguided and illegal to look at or download or even to pay to download pedophiliac material and if you do so, you are likely to go to prison.''

Townshend was one of The Who's four founding members, along with bassist John Entwistle, singer Daltrey and drummer Keith Moon. Moon died in 1978 and Entwistle died last year.

The group, founded in London in the early 1960s, was part of the British rock invasion along with the Rolling Stones and the Beatles. Their parade of hits included ``I Can See For Miles,'' ``Pinball Wizard,'' and ``Won't Get Fooled Again.''

The Who has been known for explosive shows that often culminated in the smashing of their musical instruments on stage.

beatbo's own "distillation" of the above reports:

pete accessed a child porn site. charges were made to his credit card. no images or downloads were found on any of his computers. police investigated for four months before dropping the charges. even accessing the site required a mandatory 5 year listing on a U.K sex offender list. i also surmise that this incident was completely vetted by the kennedy center and dismissed as it was intended. townshend has been free to enter and exit the USA since the charges were originally filed then dropped. whether pete should be believed is up to you, but apparently no other reason was found by the UK investigation.

ummmph....

Edited January 13, 2009 by beatbo

[Kashmir330]

I think it's so funny that so many Zep fans can't stand it when any one person says Zep wasn't the greatest ever... so insecure.

I get where your coming from. Everyone's opinion is different. Zeppelin is the greatest band ever

in my opinion. I love The Who to though and they're probably in my top 10 favorite bands.

[beatbo]

Im not insecure. I love the Who. To me Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, the Who and the Rolling Stones are the best 4 bands of all time. What say you of Beatbo's post? Its toooo loooooong for me to read it all. But do you think that Townsend is guilty? If so, it changes my opinion of him. and Beatbo, what is your opinion on the matter? I wont read a post that is that long.

sorry. in an effort to show both sides and opinions, i posted as many sources as i could so that you could make up your own mind.

my opinion?

pete clicked on a site and gave them his credit card number. he looked and logged off and was caught doing only that. he gave full access to scotland yard to all his computers and his home. had he ever had any collection of child pornography on his computer, he couldn't have hidden it without the replacement of his hard drive.

scotland yard dropped their charges, so pete was innocent of any wrong doing. he paid for even looking with adverse publicity and 5 years on a SO list.

do i believe him when he says he was doing "research"? i am a former member of his personal website, and i've read many of pete's rants and sermons. in my opinion, he is a man of many moods and causes at any given time, and he really had an innovative site for it's time, so, for awhile anyway, he was really into the web, or "grid" as lighthouse listeners call it....

at the end of it, i can see checking out some porn and click on a site thinking it is one thing and it having quite another. if that is research, then there you go.

is pete a perv?

on a scale between 1 and gary glitter, i give him a 4....

the who is better than zep?

led zeppelin is the greatest rock band of all time and on any given night (especially if pete townshend is pissed) the original who were one of the greatest live acts to ever get onstage. the who vs. zep with both in their prime? i'm not insecure but i never vote against jimmy page....

editted for spelling-a thankless task.

Edited January 12, 2009 by beatbo

[JethroTull]

I would say instrument for instrument the bands are about equal, plus and minus here and there. Voice wise take your pick Plant or Daltry. For me, the big difference is songwriting and lyrics, winner = The Who. Sorry, The Who win.

[beatbo]

I would say instrument for instrument the bands are about equal, plus and minus here and there. Voice wise take your pick Plant or Daltry. For me, the big difference is songwriting and lyrics, winner = The Who. Sorry, The Who win.

i'll use some similar criteria then:

every one of led zeppelin albums=classic

every who album (even with a great songwriter like pete)=50% classic or less

guitar-never heard of pete being called in to play rhythm on a zep song....(no contest)

vocals-plant is the most imitated and scintillating vocalist in hard rock. he single-handedly changed the vocal picture in music with the release of led zeppelin 1.

bass-i can see the who being voted tops but jones doesn't only play bass, and he wrote some great zep riffs

drums-an argument that has gone on for decades...

only someone named jethro tull would pick the who on a led zeppelin forum....

(joke!)

edit to add: i love both bands. is that so wrong?

Edited January 13, 2009 by beatbo

[punksandwich]

Bass On Bass alone I rate it a tie between JPJ and Entwistle (RIP) of course JPJ plays keyboards too

Ahh, but does JPJ play the trombone?

The true test of talent!

[punksandwich]

By the looks of him, I think he thinks he is holding a machine gun. A monkey with a machine gun.

Get down! And I don't mean jump up and dance, this monkey will riddle you with bullets.

Edited January 13, 2009 by punksandwich

[Jahfin]

There is no best band, artist, guitarist, drummer, vocalist, etc. Who one considers the "best" is only a matter of opinion. I do have favorites though and at the top of that list for me is the Beatles. I'm sure everyone else's mileage varies and as well it should. It would suck if everyone liked the exact same thing.

[JethroTull]

i'll use some similar criteria then:

every one of led zeppelin albums=classic

every who album (even with a great songwriter like pete)=50% classic or less

guitar-never heard of pete being called in to play rhythm on a zep song....(no contest)

vocals-plant is the most imitated and scintillating vocalist in hard rock. he single-handedly changed the vocal picture in music with the release of led zeppelin 1.

bass-i can see the who being voted tops but jones doesn't only play bass, and he wrote some great zep riffs

drums-an argument that has gone on for decades...

only someone named jethro tull would pick the who on a led zeppelin forum....

(joke!)

edit to add: i love both bands. is that so wrong?

Of course you are giving the edge to Zeppelin. (This is a Zeppelin forum). I come here as more of a neutral opinion.

[JethroTull]

Other things in the Who's favor - Tommy was performed on Broadway and show has toured the US, The Who have more greatest hits collections(hence more hits), The Who have survived with only two living members, Zeppelin can't even survive with three. More, there are 9 different versions of The Who's Live at Leeds, 7 different versions of Tommy and 14 different versions of Who's Next. Nuff said.

[Jahfin]

Again, there is no such thing as a "best" anything. If someone feels like the Jonas Brothers are the best, that's up to them. I don't have to agree with them but they have every right to feel that way. It's just music, not some sort of competition. Who or what I listen to on any given day isn't determined by that artists' ability, it's determined by what mood I'm in. Ability (or one's perception of it) doesn't even enter the picture.

[beatbo]

this is all light-hearted and fun, right? i mean, even i laughed at the trombone and the monkey picture....

...but: most greatest hits packages equals better band?

the "lion king" was performed on broadway more than "tommy"....

[BIGDAN]

Other things in the Who's favor - Tommy was performed on Broadway and show has toured the US, The Who have more greatest hits collections(hence more hits), The Who have survived with only two living members, Zeppelin can't even survive with three. More, there are 9 different versions of The Who's Live at Leeds, 7 different versions of Tommy and 14 different versions of Who's Next. Nuff said.

Hi "Jeff-throw towel in"

All the Who members came from West London, and they asked Jimmy Page to do his thing in China. Nuff said.

I'm a great fan of both, but not only my heart but my brain, any intelligent brain that is, will tell you that Led Zeppelin were/are at the top of the premier league of rock bands whereas The Who are not, Nuff said.

Regards, Danny

PS, as for Bonzo's against Moony, well Moony was just a drummer, Bonzo was a percussionist, something more than just a drummer, ah?

Edited January 13, 2009 by BIGDAN

[Kashmir330]

Other things in the Who's favor - Tommy was performed on Broadway and show has toured the US, The Who have more greatest hits collections(hence more hits), The Who have survived with only two living members, Zeppelin can't even survive with three. More, there are 9 different versions of The Who's Live at Leeds, 7 different versions of Tommy and 14 different versions of Who's Next. Nuff said.

I think your quote about Zeppelin not surviving with only three members proves how irreplaceable

that each member of Zeppelin is. The same unfortunately cannot be said about The Who ( not my

opinion but seems to be Roger and Pete's). Who cares if The Who have more greatest hits collections

than Zeppelin. Zeppelin (and the Who for the most part) weren't about "hits" but were about albums.

[JethroTull]

That makes it more of a joke to call themselves the Who with only two members left. How ridiculous. I love the Who. They are probably my second favorite band tied with the Rolling Stones and maybe the Beatles and Eagles. But instrumentally speaking the only two that can compare are drums and bass. Do you really think Townsend is as good as Page on guitar? Get real.

Okay, Joel, I understand your position. How about this?

The top five bands of all time.

1. Beatles.

2. Jethro Tull. Still touring the world. 60 plus shows per year.

3. Tie between Led Zeppelin and The Who

4. Doobie Brothers. Can't ignore all the hits during the 70's and 80's, plus the Michael McDonald years.

5. Maybe The Eagles (with Joe Walsh only).

[Otto Masson]

Hi "Jeff-throw towel in"

All the Who members came from West London, and they asked Jimmy Page to do his thing in China. Nuff said.

I'm a great fan of both, but not only my heart but my brain, any intelligent brain that is, will tell you that Led Zeppelin were/are at the top of the premier league of rock bands whereas The Who are not, Nuff said.

Regards, Danny

PS, as for Bonzo's against Moony, well Moony was just a drummer, Bonzo was a percussionist, something more than just a drummer, ah?

I know opinions differ, and all that, but this is absolute nonsense - they certainly ARE in the top league, no question about it. For a long while The Who were generally recognized as an impossible act to follow live, and for more than a decade they managed to release albums that are still generally agreed to be among the best in the history of rock music.

[beatbo]

I know opinions differ, and all that, but this is absolute nonsense - they certainly ARE in the top league, no question about it. For a long while The Who were generally recognized as an impossible act to follow live, and for more than a decade they managed to release albums that are still generally agreed to be among the best in the history of rock music.

i believe danny said "at the top of the premier league", which is the same as saying zep is best, there can be only one, ad nauseum....

until both bands get together on a reality tv show and battle each other on the obstacle course, each man's opinion is all he has....

did i already say i love the who, too?

[Otto Masson]

i believe danny said "at the top of the premier league", which is the same as saying zep is best, there can be only one, ad nauseum....

until both bands get together on a reality tv show and battle each other on the obstacle course, each man's opinion is all he has....

did i already say i love the who, too?

Yeah, I guess you're right. But that's exactly where the discussion becomes pointless for me. If anybody says their favorite band is The Beatles, The Stones, Cream, The Who or Led Zeppelin - or indeed that they think Bob Dylan is the best - I just think, yeah, who could argue with that? Now if somebody had said Def Leppard on the other hand...

Edited January 14, 2009 by Otto Masson

[ninelives]

Okay, Joel, I understand your position. How about this?

The top five bands of all time.

1. Beatles.

2. Jethro Tull. Still touring the world. 60 plus shows per year.

3. Tie between Led Zeppelin and The Who

4. Doobie Brothers. Can't ignore all the hits during the 70's and 80's, plus the Michael McDonald years.

5. Maybe The Eagles (with Joe Walsh only).

He isn't Joel.

[Jahfin]

For a long while The Who were generally recognized as an impossible act to follow live,....

I always thought it spoke volumes about Lynyrd Skynyrd's prowess as a live act that Pete Townshend handpicked them to open for the Who on the tour for Quadrophenia.

[Angel With A Broken Wing]

to beatbo~~Thanks for that post on Pete Townsend! Like Rick, I don't normally read long posts like that one, but read every word this time. I'm glad his 5 years on the SO list is over & done, I believe Pete. It seems his main offense was being a little stupid and a lot naive in going about his research on child porn/abuse. "Research" is actually a healthy way in dealing with one's childhood traumas, as Pete thinks happened to himself....he just didn't go about it the right way. And I realize that the experts in all those agencies say that many of the pedophiles & abusers use "research" as an excuse, but then that makes me wonder if any of those same experts aren't guilty of the same thing.....using their job/position to get at the child porn. So I try to just have faith in, and believe the best of, people until they prove otherwise.

to JethroTull~~Yes, Yukon is Rick, not Joel. Not that it matters because I've found them both to be very nice, helpful, informative guys who are fun & enjoyable to talk to, unless they get provoked to wrath by idiotic morons. (will probably get put on quite a few shit lists for that statement!)

to all~~Did anyone else watch the Kennedy Center Honors? I loved the tribute to Daltry & Townsend, especially the woman who did Love Reign O'er Me. Jack Black's speech was both funny & moving, it nearly had me in tears. Until the camera panned over to President Bush and he was giving one of those monkey looks of his, that took away from the moment, LOL.

[Swede]

Again, there is no such thing as a "best" anything. If someone feels like the Jonas Brothers are the best, that's up to them. I don't have to agree with them but they have every right to feel that way. It's just music, not some sort of competition. Who or what I listen to on any given day isn't determined by that artists' ability, it's determined by what mood I'm in. Ability (or one's perception of it) doesn't even enter the picture.

Right on spot, Jahfin. I can't believe that this is so hard to understand for some people. There is no way to decide who's the greatest band in the world, it's all about subjective opinions. If I choose The Bananaramas to be the best band in the world it's only because they appeal to me, I can't hardly speak for others.

Beatbo, thanks for the "long post", I am actually gonna sit down and read it. But I can't do it now as I am at work and got other stuff to do.