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Al Rock Suth

How The West Was Won Vs The Song Remains The Same OST

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HTTWWW has more energy.  Just compare the two versions of Rock and Roll.  HTWWW blows away the version from TSRTS.

I leave it to Jimmy - he said in the liner notes that HTWWW was Led Zeppelin at its best.  

Both  albums have great songs that the other one does not, so it would be difficult to choose on that basis.

It was a revelation to me to hear HTWWW when it was released, since I grew up with the original TSRTS and had the entire set memorized.  Of course the remastered and expanded TSRTS is magnificent. 

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For me it's a real toss-up.  TSRTS has better sound overall.  Robert's voice is post-Japan and he struggles as usual to get it into gear through Rock And Roll, which is just a disappointing way to start a show.  There are however some killer versions on that album that stand up not just against HTWWW but well known and well loved boots.  I love the DAC version, which has maybe the best "San Francisco" break.  NQ as others have said is epic, and in my opinion just the right length.  TSTRTS and TRS are fantastic.  And the recently added tracks in the reissue are boss.  But WLL sucks, as -- I will say -- it usually did live.

HTWWW for its part has Robert's voice as it was on the original studio recordings for the most part.  Jimmy I think is right to say that the band, musically and technically, were at their peak in 1972.  There is little to complain about in terms of performance.  It just doesn't quite have the relaxed feel of the MSG gig(s).

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How the West Was Won is miles better than The Song Remains the same for one reason... Robert Plants voice. On HTWWW he is light years better than on TSRTS. That being said though, Jimmy Page is miles better on TSRTS, so I guess it depends on what you want to hear more.  The best songs on TSRTS are No Quarter and Stairway to Heaven. But the best songs on HTWWW are too many to mention. In fact it's easy to name the bad ones: Dazed and Confused and Moby Dick, apart from those two it's near perfect.

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Both have their advantages and drawbacks:

TSRTS - Advantages: better sound, has some fantastic versions of songs (D&C, NQ, STH, SIBLY), Page is on fire

Drawbacks: Plant's voice is weaker, no acoustic set, Rock and Roll gets things off to a somewhat shaky start, and the setlist (imo) is inferior

HTWWW - Advantages: Plant's voice is in better shape, better setlist, Bonzo is on fire, acoustic set

Drawbacks: Sound is overly compressed, no NQ, and, with the exception of Rock and Roll and Whole Lotta Love, the songs which are repeats here (D&C, STH, SIBLY) are not as good as the versions on TSRTS.

Ultimately, I'd give the edge to HTWWW. TSRTS is good too, however (albeit I do think it is overrated).

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19 hours ago, poortom88 said:

How the West Was Won is miles better than The Song Remains the same for one reason... Robert Plants voice. On HTWWW he is light years better than on TSRTS. That being said though, Jimmy Page is miles better on TSRTS, so I guess it depends on what you want to hear more.  The best songs on TSRTS are No Quarter and Stairway to Heaven. But the best songs on HTWWW are too many to mention. In fact it's easy to name the bad ones: Dazed and Confused and Moby Dick, apart from those two it's near perfect.

Huh? Dazed and Moby are bad in your opinion on HTWWW? Not to me. Dazed is just off the hook bad ass, aside from the beginning of the jam when Jones and Page are in two different keys. LOL. The middle of Dazed '73 ( bow solo /jam section ) is more varied and may be " better" than in '72 , but that's just how it evolved.  The way the band plays the head on HTWWW is so full of dynamic power and Plants voice is at its best. The ending is total Hammer of The Gods! Bonzo's solos on both versions of Moby Dick are brilliant but TSRTS is so chopped up, the editing is annoying.  The version on HTWWW is much better in terms of continuity, his chops are incredible and I love the wood shell drum sound. I'm not a big fan of the compressed EQ job on HTWWW but I love Bonzo's green sparkle kit , especially the bass and toms. They have much more warmth and tone than the vistalites. 

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2 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Huh? Dazed and Moby are bad in your opinion on HTWWW? Not to me. Dazed is just off the hook bad ass, aside from the beginning of the jam when Jones and Page are in two different keys. LOL. The middle of Dazed \'73 ( bow solo /jam section ) is more varied and may be " better" than in \'72 , but that\'s just how it evolved. The way the band plays the head on HTWWW is so full of dynamic power and Plants voice is at its best. The ending is total Hammer of The Gods! Bonzo\'s solos on both versions of Moby Dick are brilliant but TSRTS is so chopped up, the editing is annoying. The version on HTWWW is much better in terms of continuity, his chops are incredible and I love the wood shell drum sound. I\'m not a big fan of the compressed EQ job on HTWWW but I love Bonzo\'s green sparkle kit , especially the bass and toms. They have much more warmth and tone than the vistalites.

I\'ve never liked Moby Dick not even the album version. But there are some amazing performances of Dazed and Confused out there, I just don\'t like the one on HTWWW. I think it\'s because the other songs on the album are so dynamic that Dazed slows it down a bit. I mean the Immigrant Song, Over The Hills And Far Away, What Is And What Should Never Be and Rock And Roll are so good on HTWWW that a long number like Dazed just seems out of place with the vibe. That being said though, Whole Lotta Love on HTWWW is amazing.

I agree with you on the chopping up of TSRTS. It is a strange album to say the least, but not necessarily a bad one.

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Both good. Immigrant Song from HTWWW is just off the hook. The drumming on Heartbreaker on HTWWW is killer and I love Over The Hills And Far Away on it too.

TSRTS is flawed at times but I have always cherished it. I remember seeing it about 25 years ago around a mate's house when everyone was stoned and it was my first introduction to Zeppelin. I'd heard of them of course and was really into GNR at the time and remember Slash eulogising profusely about how great Jimmy Page was. Anyway, seeing TSRTS was mindblowing. For one, I couldn't believe Zeppelin were only a four piece band having only heard them on radio. Secondly, there was just something that drew me in. Not just musically, just something else. I can't really explain it. Two days later I scrambled together some money and bought Led Zep IV during my lunchtime at college and that evening I played it over and over. That weird sound just before Black Dog starts on the record always takes me back to that moment. It really was special. I often want to go back to that moment when I knew very little about Zeppelin and went on the voyage of discovery that led (lead) me to them becoming my favourite band of all time. 

So, sentimentally I love TSRTS but HTWWW is insane energy. 

Edited by morningson

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4 hours ago, morningson said:

Both good. Immigrant Song from HTWWW is just off the hook. The drumming on Heartbreaker on HTWWW is killer and I love Over The Hills And Far Away on it too.

TSRTS is flawed at times but I have always cherished it. I remember seeing it about 25 years ago around a mate's house when everyone was stoned and it was my first introduction to Zeppelin. I'd heard of them of course and was really into GNR at the time and remember Slash eulogising profusely about how great Jimmy Page was. Anyway, seeing TSRTS was mindblowing. For one, I couldn't believe Zeppelin were only a four piece band having only heard them on radio. Secondly, there was just something that drew me in. Not just musically, just something else. I can't really explain it. Two days later I scrambled together some money and bought Led Zep IV during my lunchtime at college and that evening I played it over and over. That weird sound just before Black Dog starts on the record always takes me back to that moment. It really was special. I often want to go back to that moment when I knew very little about Zeppelin and went on the voyage of discovery that led (lead) me to them becoming my favourite band of all time. 

So, sentimentally I love TSRTS but HTWWW is insane energy. 

You deserve a beer for that post. :drinks:

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HTWWW without a doubt, no contest whatsoever, 1972 plant's voice is still powerful, the tempo's hadn't slowed down, the band was absolutely on fire - highlights for me are the black dog guitar solo - perhaps my favorite bit of page playing of all time, the band is cocky, on-fire. absolutely love the riff coming out of the heartbreaker solo, t's extremely powerful, OTHAFA is great, acoustic set is great, dancing days, bring it on home - in 1972 they were still playing at the same tempo as plant could still hit the high notes. There is entirely too much guitar wanking in TSRTS, plants voice is raspy and tempo's are adjusted causing the songs to drag on and on - there are definitely some highlights in TSRTS and I'm grateful that we have it but my preference is HTWWW by a mile, i would've loved to have seen them in 72, absolute peak of playing in my opinion. Best band in the world.

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I remember reading somewhere that Jimmy was so good on HTWWW was because Lori Maddox was side of stage for the first time. 

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On 1/8/2017 at 5:46 AM, morningson said:

I remember reading somewhere that Jimmy was so good on HTWWW was because Lori Maddox was side of stage for the first time. 

Damn, I guess having a 14 year old muse is possible...but really fucked up. 

Edited by porgie66

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Since they are now both remastered I have spent a while listening to them and I reckon HTWWW is slightly edging it. What swings it for me is Plant’s voice -especially on OTHAFA-absolutely at his best. Jimmy is marginally better on some tracks on TSRTS -notably DAC- but there’s not much in it.The 72 Tour was for me the very peak of Zep and this show was as good as it got. Such a shame we will never get a complete visual performance from this period that hasn’t been edited to hell.

Edited by Paganini

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It is amazing how different the two are -  just 13 months apart.   They are both special and have their own unique moments.   The set lists are so different, so much to enjoy.  

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Not saying it's better, but I usually end up listening to TSRTS more (76 version of course). As much as I love the WLL medleys, there's something about the one on HTWWW that makes it not appeal to me. It sounds too contrived and less spontaneous than others. Plus the WLL on TSRTS has that awesome improvised groove near the end. I think the band plays with more maturity on TSRTS, but not nearly as energetic. The original No Quarter combined with the bonus tracks puts it on par to HTWWW in my opinion, but damn those remaster edits.

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On 1/2/2017 at 12:17 PM, porgie66 said:

Huh? Dazed and Moby are bad in your opinion on HTWWW? Not to me. Dazed is just off the hook bad ass, aside from the beginning of the jam when Jones and Page are in two different keys. LOL. The middle of Dazed '73 ( bow solo /jam section ) is more varied and may be " better" than in '72 , but that's just how it evolved.  The way the band plays the head on HTWWW is so full of dynamic power and Plants voice is at its best. The ending is total Hammer of The Gods! Bonzo's solos on both versions of Moby Dick are brilliant but TSRTS is so chopped up, the editing is annoying.  The version on HTWWW is much better in terms of continuity, his chops are incredible and I love the wood shell drum sound. I'm not a big fan of the compressed EQ job on HTWWW but I love Bonzo's green sparkle kit , especially the bass and toms. They have much more warmth and tone than the vistalites

Totally agree.

P.S.  The bass and toms are the only variable, as he used the same snare (Ludwig LM402) across all of his kit changes.

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On 8/28/2016 at 12:51 PM, renounce said:

   I'm late to join this thread but for me it's TSRTS hands down. TSRTS has standout versions of NQ, DAC, STH, NQ, WLL, The Ocean, and CD (the pre-2007 version.) In fact, I would say the versions of STH, DAC and NQ are serious contenders for 'greatest ever' versions. That whole July '73 MSG run has a lovely kind of laid-back intensity to it. The band are hot after a long tour but are also tired and aren't trying too hard. Also, by '73 the band had learnt to just relax and let the music breathe, without pushing it too hard. The spacey jam in OTHAFA  is a prime example.

As for HTWWW; well, I'm not the biggest fan of '72 Zep anyway. They seemed to be in no-man's-land that year between the ferocity of their ealy years, and the expansion of their mid and later years. Somehow these HTWWW performances just don't do much for me.  There is not a single song peformance that is truly one for the ages and there are superior versions to all these songs elsewhere, though the acoustic set is memorable and very nicely captured.

My biggest gripe about HTWWW however, is the sound. Sure, it's clear and punchy, but to my ears, also squashed and artificial. Remember reading an interview with Kevin Shirley in which he disclosed that he'd 'tightened' Bonzo's drum sound a little. Why? Bonzo was a master at tuning his own kit and would, no doubt, have got the exact sound he wanted. The result just sounds annoyingly inorganic and artificial to me.  Also, the vocals seem strangely divorced from the rest of the band somehow. There are at least 10 boots I'd rather be listening to than this.

So, that's my 2 cents worth. Still dreaming of a 3CD Earls Court release this side of 2020.............

You're right. They were in "No Man's Land" on HTWWW.

Besides JPJ who was a rock, not a single member is at their peak. Plant is already well on the decline (he hadn't hit the highs on Stairway since probably 9/23/71 in Japan (a SUPERB show)), Page was better in both '71 and '73 than he was in '72 (granted this one is less objective; but he was cleaner in '71, and definitely more creative and possibly cleaner too in '73), and Bonzo is losing steam, heading toward his sort of (relatively) lackluster performance in a lot of TSRTS.

HTWWW is remarkably badly timed for being one of their few multi-tracked shows.

I listen to a lot of Zeppelin boots, and this is my take. I greatly prefer TSRTS and BBC Sessions.

ALB

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Actually after a recent listen I recant what I said about Bonham on TSRTS- he’s actually pretty great throughout. More economical than in ‘77 (not always a bad thing), lacking the kick-drum virtuosity he had thru ‘71, but overall still great. 🙂

ALB

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Although HTWWW was the bands peak with regards to precision playing and singing......I never listen to that CD.  I can listen to TSRTS over and over again and greatly enjoy every song.  I admit that Jimmy played "Rock and Roll" and "Since I've Been Loving You" better and with great precision on HTWWW but the songs from New York are more enjoyable.  Dazed and Confused; The Rain Song; and No Quarter are almost flawless from New York. 

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HTWWW vs TSRTS
Common songs:  To me, most of these are better on HTWWW
Rock and Roll - HTWWW
Black Dog - HTWWW
Heartbreaker - HTWWW
Over the Hills - HTWWW
Since I've Been Loving You - HTWWW
The Ocean -  toss up
Stairway - TSRTS (Plant better on HTWWW, but TSRTS has a much better guitar solo)
Dazed - TSRTS 
Moby Dick - HTWWW
Whole Lotta Love - TSRTS (unless you prefer the medly)
Unique Songs
HTWWW
Immigrant Song, That's the Way, Going to California, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, What Is and What Should Never Be, Dancing Days, Bring it on Home
TSRTS
Celebration Day, Misty Mt Hop, No Quarter, Song Remains, Rain Song
It comes down to what aspects of Zep you like best.  HTWWW has a glorious acoustic set and more material from the earlier albums.  TSRTS has better improvisation and more songs from the progressive side of HOTH. 
I think overall I cannot really choose a favorite since they are so different and both so fantastic.
 

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19 hours ago, strombringer101 said:

Hands down TSRTS.

best daze, no quarter, rain song, black dog.

TSRTS's versions of Dazed, NQ & The Rain Song are certainly worthy nominees for best-ever versions, but I'm not sure how you could call its Black Dog a best-ever version when it isn't even complete (only the version on the Led Zeppelin DVD has the full song)...

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2 minutes ago, Bonzo_fan said:

TSRTS's versions of Dazed, NQ & The Rain Song are certainly worthy nominees for best-ever versions, but I'm not sure how you could call its Black Dog a best-ever version when it isn't even complete (only the version on the Led Zeppelin DVD has the full song)...

For some reason I like it because it gets right to the meat of that Killer jam between Jimmy and Bonzo. Love it! Just the power, yeah the full version on the DVD is killer and other earlier versions but for me that little riff kicked my ass.

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5 hours ago, John M said:

HTWWW vs TSRTS
Common songs:  To me, most of these are better on HTWWW
Rock and Roll - HTWWW
Black Dog - HTWWW
Heartbreaker - HTWWW
Over the Hills - HTWWW
Since I've Been Loving You - HTWWW
The Ocean -  toss up
Stairway - TSRTS (Plant better on HTWWW, but TSRTS has a much better guitar solo)
Dazed - TSRTS 
Moby Dick - HTWWW
Whole Lotta Love - TSRTS (unless you prefer the medly)
Unique Songs
HTWWW
Immigrant Song, That's the Way, Going to California, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, What Is and What Should Never Be, Dancing Days, Bring it on Home
TSRTS
Celebration Day, Misty Mt Hop, No Quarter, Song Remains, Rain Song
It comes down to what aspects of Zep you like best.  HTWWW has a glorious acoustic set and more material from the earlier albums.  TSRTS has better improvisation and more songs from the progressive side of HOTH. 
I think overall I cannot really choose a favorite since they are so different and both so fantastic.
 

Whole Lotta Love is a tough call.  HTWWW has one of the best beginnings of it ever with how violently Jimmy launches into the riff.  TSRTS has one of the best coda sections/finales, again because of the violence of it.  As far as everything in between, I would lean towards HTWWW, because for some reason, Boogie Chillen has always been my least favourite part of the medley, so I'm not a fan of how they reduced the medley to only that for the most part for North America '73.  Not sure why I've never loved it...love John Lee Hooker's original, usually find their covers to be an improvement, but I always find myself kind of impatiently "getting through it" to get to the rest of the medley.  One notable exception is 9/29/71 Osaka, with that amazing little riff they play before launching into it!

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