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guitarmy

Keeping Led Zeppelin real

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I know many of you have talked about and even posted about the interview on January 11th on "This Morning".

(What I'm interested in is after the printed version)

Here it is in link form: This Morning

Here it is in quasi-print form, as it pertains to Led Zeppelin:

Interviewer, in reference to the O2:

*Were there thoughts “actually we could have another go at this?”*

Robert: Well you know the anticipation in the room was...I don't think it's within the human psyche to actually experience that too many times. It was just so spellbinding, and it was partly fearsome and incredibly...terrible is a good word, you know.

We knew, we just looked at each other and said "just don't play anything too fast"

nerves and nerves, you've got to pull everything back and make it as sexy as you possibly can, if that can ever be construed.

But the deal is that was an amazing moment for all of us in our own worlds, and it was great, because it did work, and it was real and it was true.

Now how do you...

*it got fantastical reviews*

Robert: it's a miracle when you think about our press, bless you. *air kiss*

Well, but I've come and gone about a million times, in and out of fame and favor and all that, so I thought that we'd be castigated no matter how good we thought we were, but we weren't.

But the thing is, how do you take that, and keep the essence and the sincerity of what is was and the reality--the real real thing that was there.

Because you can't go round and round and round and round, somewhere behind The Stones and say "hey, you know, we'll get there playing for the..." no no. You've got, if anything, you just can't do it like that. That's so cheesy.

It's the mark of very old men who are really bored. To just do it for that reason. It's got to be electrifying. It's got to be everything that it was in the beginning, but at a different stage in one's life.

*So just to think about that question again then, would you think of doing it again?*

Robert: I don't think I can think about that now. I've got an American girl with a big violin bow poking across the Atlantic saying "Come on, tell 'em, tell 'em Robert".

*But it must be extraordinary to have 20 million people who are sitting the waiting for you to do it, should you choose to do it again, and of course they’re probably very patient—they’ll wait.*

Robert: Well, you know, everything's got to be right. The whole thing about Led Zeppelin was, it was so beautifully haphazard. It was really real. But I never did anything like this.

We, you know, the kind of whole deal about it was so right, and then it was so wrong. So to make it right again, it takes magic.

...

So here's what I'm interested in, with some direct references to what Robert said:

How do you make it real and true again?

How do you keep the essence and sincerity?

How do you not make yourself look like "very old men who are really bored"?

How do you not make it cheesy?

How do you make it electrifying?

How do you make it everything it was in the beginning?

How do you make it right again?

How do you create this magic?

In reality, the only people who will have to answer these questions are Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, and John Paul Jones. (and much consideration for Jason Bonham)

But since we are the fans, (hopefully patient and not greedy) who no doubt would witness magic if we saw Led Zeppelin, and since this is true about us fans, it's clear that when Robert hypothetically asks these questions, he is talking about the members of the group.

As fans, we wouldn't think it was cheesy or lacking sincerity...would we?

So what are the answers to these questions? Or what do you think they might be? Any other questions/answers?

...

I think it's clear to say that we can leave out any answers that involve charity concerts or tours, since Robert practically almost says so in the interview, when talking about The Stones.

Edited by guitarmy

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As fans, we wouldn't think it was cheesy or lacking sincerity...would we?

that's the problem... I think too many "fans" now, after the reunion and hype are the sort that will beg them to play no matter what, simply for the sake of being able to say they saw them. others, I believe, are still feeling as though they got the shaft having never got a chance to see them, and are also willing to beg for it no matter what. I've never seen them, I never had a chance, and I'm of the opinion that the O2 should be the end. maybe a charity once in a while, but really, I'd like to see them stop. I think some fans are too attached to LZ and would continue to say "no, no, it was awesome, it was magic, it was sincere" but is that magic because you got to see 3 guys you've worshiped all your life or because you got to hear them create some really moving music? I think it's a great thing that Plant is holding out, it means he values LZ's history and legacy and what it means in the wider scope of things. I think that he will make the decision that best suits the legacy of the band. LZ is an old man, and it's in its final days, nobody can argue that, and it would be rude and disrespectful to force it to live up to its former glory in its last days. maybe it's there right now, maybe it's not, but eventually it won't be. should the final downhill slide come during the last tour? is that a chance they're willing to take? if they tour, there'll still be thousands of fans begging for more, are they willing to keep rolling the dice to satisfy the fans that apparently believe the band owes them something? I don't know... I hope those questions are ones that the band is asking each other and I hope they come to conclusions that feel good to them, not us.

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It took Plant about 25 years to do a LZ show again with his heart in it, and the O2 show was the amazing result. After hearing this interview, I can clearly see that the O2 show was the real Swan Song. Its probably best left that way............Plant would rather tour with a lady young enough to be his daughter and sing blue grass then with the guy that put him on the map. Go ahead, flame me and call me a troll because I said what is my OPINION. And I DO THINK THAT PLANT WAS THE BEST SINGER THAT THERE EVER COULD HAVE BEEN FOR LZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by steve51

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that's the problem... I think too many "fans" now, after the reunion and hype are the sort that will beg them to play no matter what

I like that you put "fans" in quotes, because I think that the truest fans are the ones that come to the realization that no amount of begging will get Led Zeppelin to play again.

I have a feeling that the fans are taken almost completely out of the "should we play again" equation. It's not that the band members are cold or anything like that. It's because it is widely known that the fans would be there at the drop of a hat. The external support is there. The internal support is in a state of limbo.

I think some fans are too attached to LZ and would continue to say "no, no, it was awesome, it was magic, it was sincere" but is that magic because you got to see 3 guys you've worshiped all your life or because you got to hear them create some really moving music?

Well, just to explore this even further, what does it matter where the magic comes from? As of December 10th, they were still really good! Now do I think they were good because they are my heroes or do I think they were good because of the music? Probably a little bit of both, because it would be impossible to escape either at this point. They were good and they are good.

maybe it's there right now, maybe it's not, but eventually it won't be. should the final downhill slide come during the last tour? is that a chance they're willing to take? if they tour, there'll still be thousands of fans begging for more, are they willing to keep rolling the dice to satisfy the fans that apparently believe the band owes them something?

Well, I think if they did more shows, they would approach them a lot differently than before. For starters, any long or massive touring is probably out of the question. At every iteration of "touring" I'm sure they would have to re-evaluate themselves to see if they think they can keep going. This means that for the rest of their Led Zeppelin careers, we as fans will be waiting to hear word as to whether Led Zeppelin will play again and whether they're up for it.

I suggest we all get used to it!

I hope those questions are ones that the band is asking each other and I hope they come to conclusions that feel good to them, not us.

exactly. I hope they do/do not do it for the right reaons for themselves.

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I have a feeling that the fans are taken almost completely out of the "should we play again" equation.

I agree that Plant feels this way, and I think that it is a sad state of affairs. While he does not "Owe" his LZ fans anything, it would be nice if he would just acknowledge them a little more. I always get the feeling from his interviews that he is just a little too full of himself.

Edited by steve51

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I agree that Plant feels this way, and I think that it is a sad state of affairs. While he does not "Owe" his LZ fans anything, it would be nice if he would just acknowledge them a little more. I always get the feeling from his interviews that he is just a little too full of himself.

I don't know if that's true, but if it is, I wouldn't blame him!

Just try to imagine what it's like to have everyone looking up at you since 1968.

I'm not saying that it's the worst thing in the world. But I am saying that you would definitely look at the world differently.

If you're an accountable person like I think Robert is, I think you might have a larger understanding on how you effect people and make your choices wisely.

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See thats the thing people think hes full of himself, hes clearly stating the opposite he might not want to do another show for the fact he doesnt want to ruin Zep's magic. He felt that no matter if they were good or not they would be flamed for trying. But What Zep has to look at is that yeah for the past 40 years their magic has came from the music... now the magic is comming from and shared amongst all the people who love them most.

but i understand where hes comming from when you build an empire why fucking ruin it for some rich snobs that will out bid the real fans anyways for tickets just so that they could say "oh i saw zep" and be apart of what you ask?... OUR MAGIC!

Eyes opened? or closed it comes down to every member and they dont owe each or us anything. Zeppelin was thier birth child that they saw into fruition, and i would put money on the fact that they realise that when they are gone the music / magic will on grow Stronger. But when they Are gone the exploitation battle begins because there is no one left but us to defend the magic.

"Your not a rock star till your dead"

-jimi hendrix

Our only enemy is time... plain and simple.

Just my two cents

Ps... Like it or not jason is just as much a part of zeppelin as his father maybe he didnt start the fire but he kept it spreading. And that im my eyes is a new LZ drumma

Edited by Olipticle

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he may or may nmot be full of himself...the way i took it about the lz comment was more that he has a committment to krauss project (which as why he was on the show in the first) which involves promoting and touring that album

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I agree that Plant feels this way, and I think that it is a sad state of affairs. While he does not "Owe" his LZ fans anything, it would be nice if he would just acknowledge them a little more. I always get the feeling from his interviews that he is just a little too full of himself.

try to think of this from his perspective: when LZ toured in their hey-day, fans usually got to see one show per tour, maybe two or three if they were lucky and/or hard-core fans. Plant saw all of them. every last single frigging LZ concert ever played, Plant was at. if you think for even a second that the idea of "damn, this is kind of old, I'd like to try something different." doesn't ever cross his mind, then you are sadly mistaken. from what I gather, this is a man who enjoys music, he enjoys trying new things. he's like you and I: one day we may listen to Led Zeppelin for a while, then the next we've suddenly moved on to Jethro Tull and haven't listened to LZ in a week. this man just wants to do what he wants to do, not what you want him to do. it is my theory that these bands that keep playing on and on are usually worn out artistically precisely because they attempt to satisfy everyone. they become far too willing to play the songs the fans want to hear, and you get concerts like the O2. sure, it was a nice setlist, but if LZ toured, I'm pretty sure that you'd get about the same thing at each show. fans wouldn't be able to deal with no Black Dog, no Since I've Been Loving You, and (horror of horrors! :o ) no Stairway To Heaven. they just wouldn't. fans want to hear their favorite songs. they want to be able to say they heard Black Dog, it's the first time they'll be able to see LZ and will want their experience to include Black Dog, funny thing is, it's Plant's who-the-hell-knows show and perhaps he doesn't want to hear Black Dog for a change. maybe he'd like to hear a song off his great new album, which he seems quite proud and excited about. I say let him play what he wants, let him do what he wants, and just deal with the fact that you may not be able to see them. you were alive and well a year ago when an LZ tour was at about a 0% chance of happening. I don't think you'll die now.

someone above mentioned the legacy after the band members are gone. personally, I believe that when LZ songs hit the public domain, that's when the magic will die... we'll see LZ whored all over the place, on ads and cheap comp albums and crappy movies. same as we'll see with Hendrix's catalog in a few years.

Edited by Zephyrus

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Probably 90% of all folks get tired of their job and think that they can get very old. I said that I think that the O2 was the Swan Song and I hope it is. A DVD would be nice, but I have no problem if Plant never wants to tour or do a show again. You know, Plant is a great rock singer and all, but he is just made out of flesh and bone like the rest of us.

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See thats the thing people think hes full of himself, hes clearly stating the opposite he might not want to do another show for the fact he doesnt want to ruin Zep's magic.

I don't think it's possible to ruin Zep's magic. They can start performing *enter your least favorite band here* songs and it wouldn't ruin anything.

The past is over and it was great, and nothing can ever take away from it. The present is great. The future is uncertain, but there's nothing they can do to ruin their past accomplishments, and that's one thing the true fans know.

Who cares what non-fans think.

He felt that no matter if they were good or not they would be flamed for trying.

And they weren't! Thank goodness. What do we make of that? Do you think Robert is not used to good press? If he expected to be flamed and he gets quite the opposite, what does one do?

But What Zep has to look at is that yeah for the past 40 years their magic has came from the music... now the magic is comming from and shared amongst all the people who love them most.

Well it's still in the music. We still wanted to hear them play their music at the O2, remember!?

but i understand where hes comming from when you build an empire why fucking ruin it for some rich snobs that will out bid the real fans anyways for tickets just so that they could say "oh i saw zep" and be apart of what you ask?... OUR MAGIC!

I don't know if he thinks of himself as being head of an empire. He appears more down to earth than that. Who knows if he thinks anything can ruin it.

Ps... Like it or not jason is just as much a part of zeppelin as his father maybe he didnt start the fire but he kept it spreading. And that im my eyes is a new LZ drumma

Well maybe not "just as much", but he is certainly near and dear to their hearts and also an accomplished drummer. He even admits that he is still "the new guy."

When Robert says that it was so right and then it was so wrong, he almost has to be referring to Bonham's death. Jason has been part of the equation to try and "make it right again".

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It took Plant about 25 years to do a LZ show again with his heart in it, and the O2 show was the amazing result. After hearing this interview, I can clearly see that the O2 show was the real Swan Song. Its probably best left that way............Plant would rather tour with a lady young enough to be his daughter and sing blue grass then with the guy that put him on the map. Go ahead, flame me and call me a troll because I said what is my OPINION. And I DO THINK THAT PLANT WAS THE BEST SINGER THAT THERE EVER COULD HAVE BEEN FOR LZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have you considered just stating your opinion rather than using it to try to start a fight, every time?

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Have you considered just stating your opinion rather than using it to try to start a fight, every time?

My constructive thoughts:

Part of the problem is that he almost immediately assumed people would flame him for what he said. So basically he knew that what he was about to say would piss someone off and he said it anyways.

Kind of like when you tell someone "ok I have something to tell you, but don't get mad!" or when you say "in all due respects...you suck" or some disclaimer like that.

So basically, if you can't give your opinion without a disclaimer like that, then maybe you should think about the way you express your opinion and reword differently.

I just ignored it at first because it was almost like he wanted people to flame him.

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Plant would rather tour with a lady young enough to be his daughter and sing blue grass then with the guy that put him on the map. Go ahead, flame me and call me a troll because I said what is my OPINION.

I don't see much of an opinion. All I see is a statement of fact, or at least a statement of what you think is fact. You will always have to defend your opinion in public.

It's clear that Plant would rather tour with Krauss than Page (who has to be the person you are referring to).

What's so bad about that? There's no reason to flame you for the truth, or what you think is the truth.

The only thing close to an opinion is what you communicated to us through not saying. You were assuming that Plant doing what he wants to do is a bad thing. That's the problem.

Regardless of your opinion, it's what the entire band thinks that matters.

But do you think Jimmy is really going to feel like he is the one that made things happen and so now they should all bend to his will?

Well maybe he does think that way, but I really do doubt it.

Edited by guitarmy

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From a kind-of newbie-ish standpoint:

Led Zeppelin truly ended with Coda.

O2 was probably what it was supposed to be, just a one off show without any thought or notion of any further gigs to come.

However, I don't think Robert has the final be all and end all say in Led Zeppelin. If more shows are to come then fine by me. If not, no harm done. Led Zeppelin have left a great legacy that no other band or artist on earth can ever match up to. Either way I'm content and greatful for they're past accomplishments.

They don't owe me a thing.

Glory Lasts Forever.

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From a kind-of newbie-ish standpoint:

Led Zeppelin truly ended with Coda.

O2 was probably what it was supposed to be, just a one off show without any thought or notion of any further gigs to come.

However, I don't think Robert has the final be all and end all say in Led Zeppelin. If more shows are to come then fine by me. If not, no harm done. Led Zeppelin have left a great legacy that no other band or artist on earth can ever match up to. Either way I'm content and greatful for they're past accomplishments.

They don't owe me a thing.

Glory Lasts Forever.

I'm not really sure what this is in reference to in anything in this thread.

How would you create the magic, Bodhisattva?

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Go ahead, flame me and call me a troll because I said what is my OPINION. And I DO THINK THAT PLANT WAS THE BEST SINGER THAT THERE EVER COULD HAVE BEEN FOR LZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The reason I said this is because thats exactly what happened on another thread at this forum. I got flamed, called a troll and recieved rank personal E mails just because of my opinion. My gosh, I always say that Plant is the BEST SINGER THAT LZ COULD HAVE EVER HAD. Im sorry if you disagree but I think that Page was the MAIN cog in the wheel of LZ. That does not mean that I dislike Plant. IMHO (this means,"In my humble opinion") I still think that Plant is full of himself. I do agree that he is the greatest rock singer of all time. Why is it that around here disagreement to many means picking a fight?

Edited by steve51

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;)

The reason I said this is because thats exactly what happened on another thread at this forum. I got flamed, called a troll and recieved rank personal E mails just because of my opinion. My gosh, I always say that Plant is the BEST SINGER THAT LZ COULD HAVE EVER HAD. Im sorry if you disagree but I think that Page was the MAIN cog in the wheel of LZ. That does not mean that I dislike Plant. IMHO (this means,"In my humble opinion") I still think that Plant is full of himself. I do agree that he is the greatest rock singer of all time. Why is it that around here disagreement to many means picking a fight?

I think people think Robert is full of himself because he is strong in his convictions. He has LZ's best interest at heart I'm sure. I've been a fan since 1975 and even back then, part of the allure of Led Zeppelin was the unknown, and their unwillingness to make the popular decision. They did what they wanted, and it was about the music. Not to make anyone happy but themselves. They made alot of people happy with their music without trying to, but satisfying everyone was not what they were about, or they would have made the same sort of record over, and over.

Only Robert knows for sure, but I believe Robert is following what he's always done, before LZ, in LZ, and after LZ. And that is exploring new music. He's made a commitment to touring with Alison, and he's happy about it! I'm fine with what ever decision he makes. And I will go see him with Alison. :D

I cringe at all I've been reading on the boards about them owing the fans a tour ect. Who knows if he reads any of these posts. But I'm sure if he does, it will send him the other direction. People's response to the 02 is exactly what kept him from agreeing to a reunion for years. It got blown out of porportion, and rumors fly. Just a little patience, understanding, and compassion for all of the members would be nice.

Also, having met Robert, I can tell you he is very good to his fans. He went out of his way to convince security to allow me and my friends to come over and chat with him. He was gratious and kind, and a gentlemen. There was nothing pompous or egocentric about him. I'll always be greatful for what he does, and gives to his fans. :P

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People's response to the 02 is exactly what kept him from agreeing to a reunion for years. It got blown out of porportion, and rumors fly. Just a little patience, understanding, and compassion for all of the members would be nice.

I think it's too much to ask the world not to blow it out of proportion. That's the nature of the beast. Whether it be capitalism or the media, it's hard not to expect full blown excitement.

...

But in reference to what Robert said, which is the topic here, how do they make it right again?

Robert didn't say it was impossible because he admitted that it worked at the O2. So how do you create this magic again?

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The reason I said this is because thats exactly what happened on another thread at this forum. I got flamed, called a troll and recieved rank personal E mails just because of my opinion. My gosh, I always say that Plant is the BEST SINGER THAT LZ COULD HAVE EVER HAD. Im sorry if you disagree but I think that Page was the MAIN cog in the wheel of LZ. That does not mean that I dislike Plant. IMHO (this means,"In my humble opinion") I still think that Plant is full of himself. I do agree that he is the greatest rock singer of all time. Why is it that around here disagreement to many means picking a fight?

Well the problem is that your comments don't necessarily reflect the topic of the thread. This isn't a "will they tour?" thread or a "Robert is the best" or a "Robert is full of himself" thread. There are other threads on this interview and I wanted to focus on how this magic could be created again, as Robert mentioned.

I'm not trying to flame you, I'm just trying to tell you what's up and maybe why you've been flamed in the past. I really have no idea, but just to let you know, it's always best to stay on topic.

Yeah, you can give your opinion, but if it's not on topic then yeah you might get flamed.

Maybe Plant is full of himself, I don't know. But if he is/isn't, I want to know how to recreate the magic either way.

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From all the videos that I have seen on U Tube from the O2 show, it was a special night. I think my favorite is the video shot from about the 5th row of "Good times Bad times/Ramble on". The up close "Stairway" and the "Kashmir" that is 8:31 long and has had over a million views also come to mind. Everything clicked that night because they were all fired up to do it and rehearsed very hard for it. They had something to prove and they were hungry to follow through to reclaim their spot as the best band ever. You might call it magic, Good Karma or what ever but I think that it was because of dedication and hard work that they pulled off what I think is their best live show ever. From the interview, I do not feel that Plant would be willing to do what it takes to reclaim that "magic" again in as far as the dedication and rehearsing that it took in the first place. Especially when you factor in all his other non Zep musical interests and projects.

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There's some reason why a musician shouldn't do what s/he finds personally satisfying?

What one finds personally satisfying can change, and it can come from conscious or subconscious influence.

...

The more and more I think about Plant's recent comments about everything being just right and the magic being there at the O2, it's almost as if he was saying that to recreate anything like that would be impossible.

Well something exactly like it would be anyways.

...

But the thing is, he hasn't come out to say "Yes" or "No" either way! He's too aware of everything to string us all along waiting for an answer that'll never come.

So there must still be doors open for an answer to come. If the answer is "yes, we'll do a few more here and there", then it must mean that they've found some way to recreate the magic and not be cheesy.

If the answer is no, then it means they can't think of an appropriate way at this time.

From the looks of this thread, neither can we!

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What one finds personally satisfying can change, and it can come from conscious or subconscious influence.

Very true. I was questioning Steve's implication that there was something wrong with members of the band doing what they (as opposed to us, or some of us) found personally satisfying.

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