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1980 European tour


stonefreelee

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Might as well go to the final show. 7-7-80. Great, complete show in decent sound. A rather unusual WLL as well, a radical departure from the usual funk/blues jam in the middle.

6-30 is great too. Interesting version of the old Beatles/Stones' "Money". Phil Carson plays bass while JPJ plays the piano. Very cool. B)

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Might as well go to the final show. 7-7-80. Great, complete show in decent sound. A rather unusual WLL as well, a radical departure from the usual funk/blues jam in the middle.

6-30 is great too. Interesting version of the old Beatles/Stones' "Money". Phil Carson plays bass while JPJ plays the piano. Very cool. B)

7-7-80 has one of the worst STH though...the solo sucks!!

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I have only two shows, 6-18 cologne and 6-24 hannover with the latter being the best sound quality. I remember reading some years ago from source unknown (read: un-remembered) that zurich was the best show(?)...6-24 has some great rplantisms..."jimmy page, guitar...pause...quite shorly on bass, john paul jones....pause...and there is every possibilty that on drums there could be john bonham....i thank you..." he also remarks, "smoke much?" at another point he remarks about the bad acoustics and one time says something like "....but i dont think i would get to the end of the sentence" scary stuff...a good "Achilles..." and that's always a plus!!!!

Edited by stonefreelee
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Frankfurt (6/30) is sizzling hot. That's probably the best Plant's voice sounded in years and even into the encore, he was still soaring. Page's playing was electric. And bringing Phil Carson out for the ultra rare cover of Money (not the Pink Floyd version - the Barret Strong song, i.e. the one Chris Faley and Brian Dennehy sing in the wedding sequence in Tommy Boy) was perhaps one of the single best covers the band ever did.

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7-7-80 has one of the worst STH though...the solo sucks!!

The Berlin Show was the worst concert i ever heard from a band!! Sorry but my opinion. Jimmy plays so fucking bad there. Oh my god...... :o Every solo is shit. I can't even listen to this boot. I don't think there is any good show on the 1980 Tour. Jimmy was to bad!

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The Berlin Show was the worst concert i ever heard from a band!! Sorry but my opinion. Jimmy plays so fucking bad there. Oh my god...... :o Every solo is shit. I can't even listen to this boot. I don't think there is any good show on the 1980 Tour. Jimmy was to bad!

I've seen a lot of people say the same crap about this show, but this might be the biggest overreaction yet. There was a time when that Berlin show was one of the few soundboards out there, and frankly, I don't think it is anywhere near "the worst concert ever." Let alone from ANY band??? If you think Berlin '80 is bad, go listen to the Indy '75 show and check back with me.

It also certainly wasn't anywhere near the top 50 percent of shows.

What it was was a concert that had some serious high points and some pretty rugged low points. Train is urgent and raw - one of my favorites from this tour. Stairway is pretty fucking good. So are NFBM and Trampled (though it does careen out of control at that breakneck speed by the end). The solo in In The Evening is pretty hot, too. And SIBLY...Page's minimal approach to this song and the subtle, sparse, almost jazzy inflections he employs...I don't really recall any other version like this.

However, there definitely were some massive issues with Page's playing, like WS/BMS/Kashmir and sloppy and sticky-fingered versions of Rain Song and Hot Dog (which IMHO should never have been played in the first place on this tour). But come on, the rest of the band is getting on well enough to make up for him. That certainly wasn't the first time they did so - on that tour or others.

And lest we forget this show was the last of 14 shows in 20 days and the band's first tour of any type in three years. I'd compare this Berlin gig to the NYC '73 shows, in that you could tell the band was worn down and ready for a break. Still, to me, this is one of those shows that had that air of uncertainty that every good Zeppelin show bore before the setlists became static and the performances became repetitive in '73.

Folks need to get a grip about this whole tour. I'm a bigger fan of the '80 Europe shows than I am of all of the '77 US shows with the exception of the LA Forum dates. Plant's voice is better in '80 and Page's tone and playing is very progressive and crunchy comparitavely (very much a reaction to the growing punk sound of the era). Jones' switch to the Yamaha synth (I am always very partial to his playing on the Hammond B3, personally) also changed the timbre of quite a few songs and, at times, was overpowering Page's guitar. This is why I think it's not so bad -- it was moving forward sonically from where they had been on previous tours and sounded entirely different. Page was providing more of the rumble and Jones was becoming more of the finesse guy.

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I've seen a lot of people say the same crap about this show, but this might be the biggest overreaction yet. There was a time when that Berlin show was one of the few soundboards out there, and frankly, I don't think it is anywhere near "the worst concert ever." Let alone from ANY band??? If you think Berlin '80 is bad, go listen to the Indy '75 show and check back with me.

It also certainly wasn't anywhere near the top 50 percent of shows.

What it was was a concert that had some serious high points and some pretty rugged low points. Train is urgent and raw - one of my favorites from this tour. Stairway is pretty fucking good. So are NFBM and Trampled (though it does careen out of control at that breakneck speed by the end). The solo in In The Evening is pretty hot, too. And SIBLY...Page's minimal approach to this song and the subtle, sparse, almost jazzy inflections he employs...I don't really recall any other version like this.

However, there definitely were some massive issues with Page's playing, like WS/BMS/Kashmir and sloppy and sticky-fingered versions of Rain Song and Hot Dog (which IMHO should never have been played in the first place on this tour). But come on, the rest of the band is getting on well enough to make up for him. That certainly wasn't the first time they did so - on that tour or others.

And lest we forget this show was the last of 14 shows in 20 days and the band's first tour of any type in three years. I'd compare this Berlin gig to the NYC '73 shows, in that you could tell the band was worn down and ready for a break. Still, to me, this is one of those shows that had that air of uncertainty that every good Zeppelin show bore before the setlists became static and the performances became repetitive in '73.

Folks need to get a grip about this whole tour. I'm a bigger fan of the '80 Europe shows than I am of all of the '77 US shows with the exception of the LA Forum dates. Plant's voice is better in '80 and Page's tone and playing is very progressive and crunchy comparitavely (very much a reaction to the growing punk sound of the era). Jones' switch to the Yamaha synth (I am always very partial to his playing on the Hammond B3, personally) also changed the timbre of quite a few songs and, at times, was overpowering Page's guitar. This is why I think it's not so bad -- it was moving forward sonically from where they had been on previous tours and sounded entirely different. Page was providing more of the rumble and Jones was becoming more of the finesse guy.

Ok thats your opinion. I'm guitar player, so i can't even listen to this show. Page plays more mistakes than correct notes. Stairway is so worse. He fucked up the whole song. I think even the Live Aid performance of Jimmy was better than this show! Ok, the other 3 guys play well, Plant sang very well in Berlin. But Jimmy........i can't find a word for this shitty playing! Really! I NEVER heard any concert which was (guitar) so bad!!! And don't come along with "it was the end of the tour". Guys like Maiden etc. play 180 gigs a year (in the 80th) and no show is bad! I think jimmy was fucked up by the drugs in the late 70th and early 80th. He never played as good as 1973. That was the last good year. After this, he was to different (one concert good, two bad etc.....)

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of Jimmy, but i think guys like Clapton and Blackmore didn't have such low points in their careers. And they play much better now than Jimmy.

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Ok thats your opinion. I'm guitar player, so i can't even listen to this show. Page plays more mistakes than correct notes. Stairway is so worse. He fucked up the whole song. I think even the Live Aid performance of Jimmy was better than this show! Ok, the other 3 guys play well, Plant sang very well in Berlin. But Jimmy........i can't find a word for this shitty playing! Really! I NEVER heard any concert which was (guitar) so bad!!! And don't come along with "it was the end of the tour". Guys like Maiden etc. play 180 gigs a year (in the 80th) and no show is bad! I think jimmy was fucked up by the drugs in the late 70th and early 80th. He never played as good as 1973. That was the last good year. After this, he was to different (one concert good, two bad etc.....)

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of Jimmy, but i think guys like Clapton and Blackmore didn't have such low points in their careers. And they play much better now than Jimmy.

Frankly, that's your opinion and it's completely off topic for the original question - "Does anyone have any opinions on which were the greatest shows/recordings of the 1980 European tour 1980?"

Page's playing in '75 was good once he overcame the broken finger. Erratic in '77 and '80. But for as much as you say the drugs fucked his playing up, it also was with them that he created his guitar masterpiece (Presence). Again, though, a different topic entirely.

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I have only two shows, 6-18 cologne and 6-24 hannover with the latter being the best sound quality. I remember reading some years ago from source unknown (read: un-remembered) that zurich was the best show(?)...6-24 has some great rplantisms..."jimmy page, guitar...pause...quite shorly on bass, john paul jones....pause...and there is every possibilty that on drums there could be john bonham....i thank you..." he also remarks, "smoke much?" at one one point he remarks about the bad acoustics and one time says something like "....but i dont think i would get to the end of the sentence" scary stuff...a good "Achilles..." as well...that's always a plus!!!! ALS is the best, dog!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!uh, whoops, sorry 'bout that...happens every now and again.

Well, a lot of opinions in here. I think Cologne (6/18) is pretty exciting, and so is Frankfurt (6/30). I'm not a musician so I can't really argue about who plays wrong where etc. but IMO you can hear that Bonzo and Page are getting a bit tired during the tour (ok forget about Nuremberg 6/27) but the results in Berlin (7/7) sound very interesting to me: most songs are very long (unlike Cologne) and again *experimental* IMO. Someone may say they play wrong, but as it's their music really, who's to say what's wrong if it sounds nice, or even fantastic to some people, huh?

I enjoy listening to all the shows from the "Tour Over Europe", but then I can't play the guitar. I've never gotten the idea behind a band playing the same songs note by note every night, what's the point there really? We have the official recordings if we want to hear the songs that way, right?

IMO that's the difference between a craftsman and an artist, call it what you like.

Cheers! :beer:

PS. Sorry almost forgot one thing: I do like Zurich (6/29) a lot, it is also the first SB I got from this tour and overall a very good show, but they screw up Kashmir big time (so even I can understand it, no-one knows anymore what they are playing until Bonzo pulls it back together again) which leads to Plant wishing that nobody was bootlegging that show "coz it wasn't completely correct" and "John Paul Jones: Heineken!" :drunk: There's a good pun! :) But then in the end they do very excited Heartbreaker, bam! :thanku:

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Well, a lot of opinions in here. I think Cologne (6/18) is pretty exciting, and so is Frankfurt (6/30). I'm not a musician so I can't really argue about who plays wrong where etc. but IMO you can hear that Bonzo and Page are getting a bit tired during the tour (ok forget about Nuremberg 6/27) but the results in Berlin (7/7) sound very interesting to me: most songs are very long (unlike Cologne) and again *experimental* IMO. Someone may say they play wrong, but as it's their music really, who's to say what's wrong if it sounds nice, or even fantastic to some people, huh?

I enjoy listening to all the shows from the "Tour Over Europe", but then I can't play the guitar. I've never gotten the idea behind a band playing the same songs note by note every night, what's the point there really? We have the official recordings if we want to hear the songs that way, right?

IMO that's the difference between a craftsman and an artist, call it what you like.

Cheers! :beer:

PS. Sorry almost forgot one thing: I do like Zurich (6/29) a lot, it is also the first SB I got from this tour and overall a very good show, but they screw up Kashmir big time (so even I can understand it, no-one knows anymore what they are playing until Bonzo pulls it back together again) which leads to Plant wishing that nobody was bootlegging that show "coz it wasn't completely correct" and "John Paul Jones: Heineken!" :drunk: There's a good pun! :) But then in the end they do very excited Heartbreaker, bam! :thanku:

Totally agree with you re: if you want note for note perfection, get the studio albums...boots are for people who (obviously) want the real thing, live, warts and all...as great as LZ is/was, they still are human beings, not robots programmed to play the same notes night after night...

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If you are only getting one show from this tour, I'd like to join those recommending 6/30 Frankfurt Special a.k.a "Hotter Than the Hindenburg" show. Nobody over plays especially Bonzo, and the vibe is sort of like a studio recording. This show is FUN. I'm a big fan of Train circa 1980. Robert is the one holding this gig together, but Jimmy 75% of Jimmy's solos are fiery. I highly recommend Trampled Underfoot from this show. Band chemistry and interplay are poppin here.

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Ok thats your opinion. I'm guitar player, so i can't even listen to this show. Page plays more mistakes than correct notes. Stairway is so worse. He fucked up the whole song. I think even the Live Aid performance of Jimmy was better than this show! Ok, the other 3 guys play well, Plant sang very well in Berlin. But Jimmy........i can't find a word for this shitty playing! Really! I NEVER heard any concert which was (guitar) so bad!!! And don't come along with "it was the end of the tour". Guys like Maiden etc. play 180 gigs a year (in the 80th) and no show is bad! I think jimmy was fucked up by the drugs in the late 70th and early 80th. He never played as good as 1973. That was the last good year. After this, he was to different (one concert good, two bad etc.....)

Don't get me wrong. I'm a big fan of Jimmy, but i think guys like Clapton and Blackmore didn't have such low points in their careers. And they play much better now than Jimmy.

As another guitarist, I have to reluctantly agree. Page's deterioration is consistently the 800 pound gorilla hiding in these appraisals of late era Zep. Many of these recordings are hard to listen to. Sad even. Something was terribly wrong with Jimmy Page in the late 70's through the 80's tour, the ARMS concert, and beyond. Page had some good nights during this stretch, but nothing of the caliber we heard in the late 60's to mid 70's. Which is really really a shame considering how strong and consistent the rest of the band was throughout and the unparalleled catalog of songs they had by that point. You can point out (correctly) that Jone's role expanded culminating in ITTOT and that's fine, JPJ is a fantastic musician and deserves all the accolades that you can throw at him, but for me Zeppelin begins and ends with Page. If Page had succumbed to hard living there would be no talk of reunions, he is irreplaceable as a musical voice. This makes Jimmy's apparent return to form at the 02 gig all the more special and remarkable and a large part of what makes the prospect of a tour so damn exciting..

Edited by dexter
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I'm not one to hide that Page's playing wasn't great all the time and that the drugs played a major part in it. But at the same time, as I alluded to earlier, my feeling is there was a bit of a conscientious choice to play sloppy because punk was all the rage at the time in the fashionista/art house crowd. And we know Page is not only one of those types, but also was somewhat enthralled by punk music. He's even admitted that hard drugs were a part of the musician thing even farther back than many care to admit (into the early 70s), so he had become somewhat a functional junkie as well. Food for thought...but again, this is all off topic here.

That said, listening to the Zurich show, that was certainly a high point of that '80 tour. Plant was wailing, and it was certainly one of those nights that Page was playing well.

Edited by solar
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Frankfurt June 30th 1980 is as good as ANY Zep show I've heard. Zurich is a good show too and the Trampled at Manheim is crazy with the Thermin. As for Berlin, I can't say having never heard it, but a friend was in Berlin in '80, she went to the show and was not impressed.

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As another guitarist, I have to reluctantly agree. Page's deterioration is consistently the 800 pound gorilla hiding in these appraisals of late era Zep. Many of these recordings are hard to listen to. Sad even. Something was terribly wrong with Jimmy Page in the late 70's through the 80's tour, the ARMS concert, and beyond. Page had some good nights during this stretch, but nothing of the caliber we heard in the late 60's to mid 70's. Which is really really a shame considering how strong and consistent the rest of the band was throughout and the unparalleled catalog of songs they had by that point.

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As another guitarist, I have to reluctantly agree. Page's deterioration is consistently the 800 pound gorilla hiding in these appraisals of late era Zep. Many of these recordings are hard to listen to. Sad even. Something was terribly wrong with Jimmy Page in the late 70's through the 80's tour, the ARMS concert, and beyond. Page had some good nights during this stretch, but nothing of the caliber we heard in the late 60's to mid 70's. Which is really really a shame considering how strong and consistent the rest of the band was throughout and the unparalleled catalog of songs they had by that point. You can point out (correctly) that Jone's role expanded culminating in ITTOT and that's fine, JPJ is a fantastic musician and deserves all the accolades that you can throw at him, but for me Zeppelin begins and ends with Page. If Page had succumbed to hard living there would be no talk of reunions, he is irreplaceable as a musical voice. This makes Jimmy's apparent return to form at the 02 gig all the more special and remarkable and a large part of what makes the prospect of a tour so damn exciting..

I agree. Even in '95, with the Page and Plant tour, he had to hire a second guitarist (who did an admirable job, but that's not the point). But I'm glad now that he has all of his skill back, even after he (supposedly) broke his pinky.

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I agree. Even in '95, with the Page and Plant tour, he had to hire a second guitarist (who did an admirable job, but that's not the point). But I'm glad now that he has all of his skill back, even after he (supposedly) broke his pinky.

Jimmy didn't HAVE TO hire a second guitarist back in 1994. He could play just fine on his own. I have enough shows to support this. They took on a second guitarist to thicken the sound, and recreate some of the studio cuts such as TSRTS. But Jimmy didn't need help. Don't kid yourself. B)

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