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MOJO

Bootleggers and the possible effect on a positive Led Zeppelin Tour

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Bootleggers and the possible effect on a positive Led Zeppelin Tour

Let me start by saying I am and have been a Led Zeppelin fan since I was seven years old and am now forty-two. I have never had the extreme pleasure to see them perform live. I hope for a world tour just as much or more then the rest of their fans for I may not have much more life left to get the chance to see them live. I see there are those who think they owe us a tour or feel it was unfair for them to do one show in the UK. First, it was not an unfair decision for we all had an equal chance of scoring tickets to the show. Secondly, they do not owe anybody anything for they have brought much pleasure and joy into our lives with their wonderful music, from their albums to their DVDs. The greatest rock band let me rephrase that The Greatest Musical Experience in my lifetime has been Led Zeppelin. If they decide not to tour, I respect their decision one hundred percent. I remain hopeful.

Although I have one thing to say to the very lucky fans that got the opportunity to go to the 02 show, if they decide not to tour one major factor that can help with a negative decision is some of you did not respect their wishes. When they first announced the show, one of their wishes was that it not be recorded, well some of you, you know who you are bootlegged the show then shoved it in their faces by posting it all over the web moments after the show ended. Some had balls enough to post it on the Led Zeppelin forum. TOTAL DISRESPECT.

I remain hopeful of a tour even a limited tour. Nevertheless, if not some of you have something to ponder.

Whole Lotta Love,

Henry Wojturski

Ultimate Led Zeppelin fan located in:

Bayonne, NJ. USA

http://precious-m.tripod.com

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Everything about this show was a lesson in supply and demand. No artificial controls worked.

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From what I hear...it was VERY easy for people to take in recording and video gear. I'd think if the band REALLY didn't want people to record this..they would have had tighter security.

They didn't have Peter Grant there to oversee that end...but they could have had plenty of resources to limit more than what was able to be admitted into the arena.

I don't think the REALITY of being recorded by audients is going to affect any consideration they have of doing more shows.

I even think they'd quite enjoy that many more than who were even present inside the O2 December 10th have been able to share in the concert, and that won't diminish future sales of a possible dvd and/or cd release.

Of course this is just my opinion...

No disrespect intended.

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This was my response when you made this point earlier in the other thread:

Henry, I hope I can make this point while making it clear that I am respectful of your opinion. Mine is rather different, in that nearly every Zeppelin show has been bootlegged, often multiple times, and then collected by Jimmy Page (and possibly the others, I don't know). So, looking on the positive side, I can't imagine that this would factor into their decision whether to tour or not.

Edited to add, they're realists and would probably have been shocked and maybe even insulted if the O2 had not been bootlegged!

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I think Aqua's edit is right. Robert has been quoted sayin gthat you aren't someone until you've been bootlegged.

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Bootleggers and the possible effect on a positive Led Zeppelin Tour

Let me start by saying I am and have been a Led Zeppelin fan since I was seven years old and am now forty-two. I have never had the extreme pleasure to see them perform live. I hope for a world tour just as much or more then the rest of their fans for I may not have much more life left to get the chance to see them live. I see there are those who think they owe us a tour or feel it was unfair for them to do one show in the UK. First, it was not an unfair decision for we all had an equal chance of scoring tickets to the show. Secondly, they do not owe anybody anything for they have brought much pleasure and joy into our lives with their wonderful music, from their albums to their DVDs. The greatest rock band let me rephrase that The Greatest Musical Experience in my lifetime has been Led Zeppelin. If they decide not to tour, I respect their decision one hundred percent. I remain hopeful.

Although I have one thing to say to the very lucky fans that got the opportunity to go to the 02 show, if they decide not to tour one major factor that can help with a negative decision is some of you did not respect their wishes. When they first announced the show, one of their wishes was that it not be recorded, well some of you, you know who you are bootlegged the show then shoved it in their faces by posting it all over the web moments after the show ended. Some had balls enough to post it on the Led Zeppelin forum. TOTAL DISRESPECT.

I remain hopeful of a tour even a limited tour. Nevertheless, if not some of you have something to ponder.

Whole Lotta Love,

Henry Wojturski

Ultimate Led Zeppelin fan located in:

Bayonne, NJ. USA

http://precious-m.tripod.com

Henry,

Love ya guy. I fully understand your point and respect it, but you are taking this respect thing a bit to far. first off, if you are so adamant on not listening, or seeing a bootleg, and you didn't get to go, let me inform you on a tidbit. The band had cameras, and sound recording up the ass six ways from sunday. So if they didn't want it recorded, man someone dropped the ball on that request. I wouldn't be surprised if the professional cameras that were in place all night blocked the bands view of the fans and vice verse.

That is how much recording equipment was flying around the stage.

Now as far as those disrespectful people who were lucky enough to go and see Zeppelin at the 02, and had the audacity to record them, I'd like to say this to them. God bless you, and thank you, for sharing your experience with the rest of us who could not go. I am not one who glorifies theft by any means, and I totally understand it is disrespectful and despicable to profit from such actions.

On the other hand, I think that there is a difference in someone looking to profit off of a bootleg, and someone who is willing to share an experience. I was lucky enough to listen, and (later on) view, a bootleg of the 02 show. And I am very grateful for those who made it possible, and who had nothing but the best of intentions of sharing it with those who could not be their.

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Henry,

Love ya guy. I fully understand your point and respect it, but you are taking this respect thing a bit to far. first off, if you are so adamant on not listening, or seeing a bootleg, and you didn't get to go, let me inform you on a tidbit. The band had cameras, and sound recording up the ass six ways from sunday. So if they didn't want it recorded, man someone dropped the ball on that request. I wouldn't be surprised if the professional cameras that were in place all night blocked the bands view of the fans and vice verse.

That is how much recording equipment was flying around the stage.

Now as far as those disrespectful people who were lucky enough to go and see Zeppelin at the 02, and had the audacity to record them, I'd like to say this to them. God bless you, and thank you, for sharing your experience with the rest of us who could not go. I am not one who glorifies theft by any means, and I totally understand it is disrespectful and despicable to profit from such actions.

On the other hand, I think that there is a difference in someone looking to profit off of a bootleg, and someone who is willing to share an experience. I was lucky enough to listen, and (later on) view, a bootleg of the 02 show. And I am very grateful for those who made it possible, and who had nothing but the best of intentions of sharing it with those who could not be their.

I've been down for quite somne time now and the thought of a tour gave me a little purpose.I knew my feelings would be mis-interpreted that is why I waited to write it or post it. Being an author of a book that I own the copy righton I feel strongly against bootlegging and copyright stealing. I realize if some one bootlegs a concert or copies my book without my permission it is a honor for they like it. Though I know people who have bootlegged, scalpped and infringed on copy rights, I've never spoke out against it. I for the first time have broke down my wall of syhness spoke my mind only to be mis-interperted. Sorry for my thoughts.

Edited by MOJO

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Whats up Henry, it was nice to here from you.i have read this, read some of the others comments and i truly see your point however i myself dont think bootleggers will have any effect on there decision to tour or not. Celebrity comes with a price, and this is just another part of the music biz. I would like to offer you this though. People like britney spears and jessica simpson have had people bootleg there music and there concerts, do you really want to live in a world were someone would take the time to bootleg these 2 bimbos and not LZ, now that my friend is disrespectful and rather insultig!!! :)

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I don't think you need apologize for sharing your opinion; that's what a forum such as this if for.

I do think it is much different for people to watch a 'bootlegged' performance of the 02 than to bootleg your written work-the bootleggers recorded the show themselves and didn't make off with an official recording. They are also not selling it and it doesn't cut into Zeppelin's future sales of their official release.

I have been thinking lately what a shame there aren't more video bootlegs of Zeppelin in their prime. Page has said as much himself-have you seen the video of him acquiring copies of the 02 for himself and (presumably) for his bandmates while in Japan?

I was reading an article lately telling the story of Richard Cole taking someone's video camera away from them and pouring water into it at Zeppelin's famous concert at Bath (1970-?) -GOD if Cole had only confiscated it we could have a film of that immortal concert-WHAT A SHAME!!! Jimmy would be loving it right now himself.

Edited by pop

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I think there's a huge difference between selling concert tapes (bootlegging) and trading concerts. We traders have a high standards for both sound quality (not something most bootleggers are known for) and for never posting/trading anything which can be purchased legitmately.

Further I am suspicious of the whole idea of "intellectual property rights". Property rights apply to physical property, can ideas really be considered "property"? Even patents expire!

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To Henry--I don't think you've been misinterpreted, we understand your point. We're trying to cheer you up by saying this is not an issue that would factor into their decision about whether to tour or not, so don't let it worry you. :)

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Dude...they are statements in time...people bootleg shows so we can relive them...there was no disrespect intended...but as much as I love Page...he's too much of a stickler...I wish he would release shows like Pearl Jam does (which is all the time)...we don't care if there is a mistake here or there....no one is perfect...even our heroes...if he won't supply it, someone else will....and as fans, WE WANT BOOTS!!!

P.S. I do agree though that the prices they cahrge sometimes is greedy...esp. when they are just regular burned cds

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it has always been there, it will always be there, the issue is how to control it finacially

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...the only problem I have with bootlegs is when people make money off of them and when actual material is sold (ie fake copies of actual Led Zeppelin albums)...

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Thanks to many greedy people, I have listened many of the greatest moments in Rock And Roll History. Thanks to those fans who don't profit for their long hours of working in their hobbie, I listened the best posible sound from the best band in the whole freakin' world.

Both people, greedy and fans, has done something to push Led Zeppelin in track. Page used bootleg recordings or bootleged sources in the 1997 BBC Sessions and the 2003 Led Zeppelin DVD. Plant has been looking for some bootlegs too.

Bootlegin' is a touchy subject, but I don't care... thanks to bootlegs I never imagined what a band did beyond their Studio Recordings.

Thanks to Bootlegs... I don't have to buy procesed studio recordings or incomplete shows with a better sound, but the way it was. And best of all... they are found freely on the internet...

BLESS THE TORRENTS!!!!

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BLESS THE TORRENTS!!!!

Yes, Yes indeed. not that iam implying that i use them, but i think tape trading bootlegs is the same thing over a torrent. I do think it's wrong to still Zep's official releases though.

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I have one question.......what do you consider the thousands of cellphone clips taken during the show? That theoretically is NO different than a bootleg yet Zep had no beef w/ all those clips on the net. :rolleyes: True, no one is going to be selling cell phone clips, but in todays world you don't need anything more than a hi speed connection on the net to get your hands on every single know live Zep recording in circulation. (and more are STILL surfacing 27 years later!!! :o ........I mean :thumbsup:

By 1985...without Bootlegs, there would be but 81 songs recorded in studios, and one heavily edited live album. To me that equals letting your fans grow tired of your music. If it were'nt for the boots, I bet a shitload of 40+ yr olds would'nt even be here right now. I know I probably would'nt. There's no way I would still have the thirst for Zep I have now if I would have had to listen to the same 81 tracks and TSRTS soundtrack over and over for 27 friggin years. The members of Zep, if anything, have only gained more recognition/fans/increased record sales due to being one of the most bootlegged bands in history. Hearing them live the way the audience heard them.....unedited, warts and all....is what it is all about. Zep studio and Zep live are like two completely different animals. Zep live was a living, breathing entity that was the sum of 4 guys playing off of themselves, their moods, and their environment. Studio is like a still shot. Very interesting, and may give you a different perspective each time depending on your mood, but it is still the same picture seen over and over again.

And from my 29 yrs experience in collecting live Zep boots.... the same people that actually do buy the expensive silver cd bootleg sets from Japan nowadays are more than likely the type of people that have bought every single Zep and Zep related official release they can get their hands on. Page and Co have not lost 1 friggin dime due to boots as far as I'm concerened. They have only made more money off sales due to boots helping keep the flame alive after all this time.

I myself have payed for a couple sets of tires on Jimmy's limosuine. :lol: The entire catelog, 8-tracks, casettes, mulitle vinyl LP's of all albums, the first run cd's,The rematered cd's, The Japanese and German sets of Vinyl replica cd's, the box set I and II, all the 45's, a 45 box set, Some Japanese/European editions of 45's and LP's, the MFSL Zep II, All the solo albums on vinyl, the solo 45's and EP's,all the solo cd's, Early Days, Latter Days, Early Days-Latter Days combo set, BBC, HTWWW, HTWWW 5.1, Original TSRTS dvd, TSRTS Collectors Edition Box, TSRTS VHS (hard plastic case w/ original artwork, the VHS second ed w/ new artwork)..........etc...etc...

Edited by Honeydripper

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I have one question.......what do you consider the thousands of cellphone clips taken during the show? That theoretically is NO different than a bootleg yet Zep had no beef w/ all those clips on the net. :rolleyes: True, no one is going to be selling cell phone clips, but in todays world you don't need anything more than a hi speed connection on the net to get your hands on every single know live Zep recording in circulation. (and more are STILL surfacing 27 years later!!! :o ........I mean :thumbsup:

By 1985...without Bootlegs, there would be but 81 songs recorded in studios, and one heavily edited live album. To me that equals letting your fans grow tired of your music. If it were'nt for the boots, I bet a shitload of 40+ yr olds would'nt even be here right now. I know I probably would'nt. There's no way I would still have the thirst for Zep I have now if I would have had to listen to the same 81 tracks and TSRTS soundtrack over and over for 27 friggin years. The members of Zep, if anything, have only gained more recognition/fans/increased record sales due to being one of the most bootlegged bands in history. Hearing them live the way the audience heard them.....unedited, warts and all....is what it is all about. Zep studio and Zep live are like two completely different animals. Zep live was a living, breathing entity that was the sum of 4 guys playing off of themselves, their moods, and their environment. Studio is like a still shot. Very interesting, and may give you a different perspective each time depending on your mood, but it is still the same picture seen over and over again.

And from my 29 yrs experience in collecting live Zep boots.... the same people that actually do buy the expensive silver cd bootleg sets from Japan nowadays are more than likely the type of people that have bought every single Zep and Zep related official release they can get their hands on. Page and Co have not lost 1 friggin dime due to boots as far as I'm concerened. They have only made more money off sales due to boots helping keep the flame alive after all this time.

Here Hear !!! Best post of the thread !!!! I agree 100% !!!

Amazing though...for you and I and many others being continually, 'freshly' active with Led Zeppelin by way of bootlegs....there are MANY here who have NONE ! They don't KNOW the warts and all comprehensive history of Zep's live performances....and THEY'll be the ones to denounce boots. Unless they're HUGE hypocrites.

But if they haven't heard them....they're clueless to the changes...the evolution of the band, and in some cases...devolutionary 'periods'....so they really have no ground to speak on....

Great post Honeydripper !! I KNOW the band has to read this and KNOW it as well...it's a NO BRAINER !!!! :D

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