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Led Zeppelin Bass sound.


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Is it my hearing or poor sound system, but I find it sometimes difficult to pick out JPJ on the Bass and it's not only on the Keyboard tracks.

The exception being Achelles Last Stand which is very clear.

I've just picked up a great cd called "The Drum & Bass Show" from Houston 77 and that is more like it, the Bass is very load and proud.

Can oneone explain this to me is layman's terms.

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Is it my hearing or poor sound system, but I find it sometimes difficult to pick out JPJ on the Bass and it's not only on the Keyboard tracks.

The exception being Achelles Last Stand which is very clear.

I've just picked up a great cd called "The Drum & Bass Show" from Houston 77 and that is more like it, the Bass is very load and proud.

Can oneone explain this to me is layman's terms.

Clarify what the audio source is that you are trying to hear his bass on.

Studio- shouldn't be a problem

Official live- shouldn't be a problem either, but I've met a lot of people that can't "hear" bass.

Boots- the variance of the recording sources insures that you will always be hearing different perspectives. I'm betting the one you refer to above is probably one of the FOH mixing board recordings. They tend to be very heavy on all instruments except guitar. Other boots of course will depend on the quality of the portable recorder, and where in the arena that the concertgoer was standing.

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Clarify what the audio source is that you are trying to hear his bass on.

Studio- shouldn't be a problem

Official live- shouldn't be a problem either, but I've met a lot of people that can't "hear" bass.

Boots- the variance of the recording sources insures that you will always be hearing different perspectives. I'm betting the one you refer to above is probably one of the FOH mixing board recordings. They tend to be very heavy on all instruments except guitar. Other boots of course will depend on the quality of the portable recorder, and where in the arena that the concertgoer was standing.

I have a separates hi fi system and a decent quality car set up.

I can generally hear the bass ok on the live recordings, it's the studio tracks I have a problem with.

JPJ is a completly different player to say John Entwhistle from The Who. JE's bass playing is more like a lead instrument, although I'm getting out of my depth here.

Is one reason that Bonham's bass drum is also very dominate in the sound set up?

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I have a separates hi fi system and a decent quality car set up.

I can generally hear the bass ok on the live recordings, it's the studio tracks I have a problem with.

JPJ is a completly different player to say John Entwhistle from The Who. JE's bass playing is more like a lead instrument, although I'm getting out of my depth here.

Is one reason that Bonham's bass drum is also very dominate in the sound set up?

Pretty astute observation for someone out of their depth!

John Entwhistle is a lead bass player, he played with a minimalist lead guitar player. JPJ as you note is in the mix with one of the most expressive drummers of all time, and with one of the most brilliant rock guitar/producers of all time.

That being said, LZ didn't have the need for the bass to be as loud as JE might have been, but I don't hear a deficiency in JPJ's bass tone, or volume in LZ's mixes. Presence has a distinctly different feel than the rest of the catalogue, and JPJ's bass is definitely mixed in more standout fashion on that one.

If you are going to hold the LZ catalogue up against contemporary bands mixes, then I will agree that JPJ is more buried, but that has to do with bass becoming a more prominent tone in music these days. Engineers mix with the idea that this disc has to slam when listened to in someones car, overall, mix levels are actually pretty ridiculous anymore. If the bass doesn't "trigger little johnny's subs, the mix is a failure"

Laughable, but I've watched engineers scrap a mix for this reason. This doesn't mean that LZ's albums are not mixed well, but there are a lot of nuances, and subtleties in their albums which is regrettably lost in the digital age.

It could be you just need to train that ear to hear analog as well as digital. B)

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Pretty astute observation for someone out of their depth!

John Entwhistle is a lead bass player, he played with a minimalist lead guitar player. JPJ as you note is in the mix with one of the most expressive drummers of all time, and with one of the most brilliant rock guitar/producers of all time.

That being said, LZ didn't have the need for the bass to be as loud as JE might have been, but I don't hear a deficiency in JPJ's bass tone, or volume in LZ's mixes. Presence has a distinctly different feel than the rest of the catalogue, and JPJ's bass is definitely mixed in more standout fashion on that one.

If you are going to hold the LZ catalogue up against contemporary bands mixes, then I will agree that JPJ is more buried, but that has to do with bass becoming a more prominent tone in music these days. Engineers mix with the idea that this disc has to slam when listened to in someones car, overall, mix levels are actually pretty ridiculous anymore. If the bass doesn't "trigger little johnny's subs, the mix is a failure"

Laughable, but I've watched engineers scrap a mix for this reason. This doesn't mean that LZ's albums are not mixed well, but there are a lot of nuances, and subtleties in their albums which is regrettably lost in the digital age.

It could be you just need to train that ear to hear analog as well as digital. B)

Igg, Many thanks for your comments.

I must admit my tinitus does not help with this either!

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JPJ used a Fender Jazz most of the time which is a pretty mellow instrument, and then he was clearly rolling off the highs so that you can't hear much of the attack a lot of the time. The bass drum would provide the attack, as he would try to lock in with Bonham.

One of the exceptions would be something like Heartbreaker where he is using bass chords and has some overdrive going.

JPJ's tone usually wasn't in your face but he usually played interesting lines rather than AC/DC style root playing. Listen to him work his way up the neck on The Song Remains the Same for instance, or the syncopating he gets into in Riverside Blues.

Unfortunately he almost never took a true a bass solo. For a time (I think 1970) he played a solo during Good Times Bad Times. That might be his only ever formal bass solo, although people always cite The Lemon Song which I'm not sure would classify, since it's a blues song where Jimmy only plays lead fills and call and response during the verses.

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Two things:

Don't forget that albums in the 70's were made for vinyl which by technical limitation could not have as much bass as todays records.

Turn off any 'rock' or 'stadium' presets that your stereo systems and listen to it flat. And if your listening to MP3's then you only have yourself to blame...

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