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Hotplant

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I'm with ya on that Nathan...celebrities are fans just like us :)Cept THEY can get tix to the O2 and we can't :angry:

LOL exactly!

Just because they are celebrities doesn't mean they aren't fans. It means they are in the spotlight more often and have connections that allow them to more easily get into things like the O2 and allow them to hang out with Zoso, Percy, Jonesy, and/or Bonzo Jr.

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If you refer to pickenpieces post below yours, i agree with him. Men may want to get married, but all the wedding glitz is the woman's thing. If a man is easy going enough to join in, that's a rarity. It's mostly the woman, her sisters/mom/mom in law to be/and friends making all the preparations. Girls are the ones who fantasize about their "wedding day" from childhood, not boys. The man will usually show up for the end product, but the woman is the one who usually puts the hard work into making the day happen. I know, it's hard to say Spats is right about anything that has to do with romance...:)

Thanks. :D

Its true. The wedding is for the woman. If you ask most guys they would not have one if the woman didn't want one. Guys just buckle and do it to make her happy or whatever.

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If I may...

I'm sick and tired of people bashing Dave Grohl. So he loves Led Zeppelin. So he dreams of hanging out with them and playing with them, and will shout it off the top of a mountain if asked (and I've only ever heard him talk about it when specifically asked about it by a reporter/interviewer). To me it just reeks of jealousy.

You know what? If I were a celebrity like David Grohl and in the same position, I would be the exact same way. And guess what? So would each and every one you. Don't deny it.

I would think we'd be proud to have any celebrity be such a big fan.

Actually, I'm just sick and tired of Zep fans bashing any celebrity who calls themselves a Led Zeppelin fan. Another great example of this is Avril Lavigne. Remember not too long before or after O2 she was pictured wearing that Zeppelin shirt? There were a lot of fans saying she wasn't an actual fan, but following the masses. Guess what? I've met her... twice. The first time we met, we spent an hour talking about Led Zeppelin. She loves them. She has all their albums. Yes, okay, her favorite album is IV, but her favorite song is Battle of Evermore.

It's jealousy, pure and simple. We here aren't celebrities, and as such don't have the connections they do... they could hook up with any member of Zep whenever they wanted to. I think we're jealous of that, so we turn around and bash them for being fans.

Like I said... if I were in Grohl's shoes, I'd be the exact same way, and so would all of you.

Don't deny it, because you're only denying the truth. Period.

I'm an undeniably jealous Dave Grohl hater :D He actually looks like a fun guy to be around, it's just he's kinda always around, that's all. No actual hatred towards him intended, though I don't agree that everyone would act the same way if they were in the same position. Halfin's around him a lot, is a friend and fan, but he doesn't seem to take up so much space with it. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, take it easy, man.

Patrycja

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Thanks. :D

Its true. The wedding is for the woman. If you ask most guys they would not have one if the woman didn't want one. Guys just buckle and do it to make her happy or whatever.

Why do you assume that all men think like you? And where do you dig up these "most men?"

I want to get married, for the record. I want 2 or 3 children, boys and girls. Of course, I don't want to be a divorce statistic, and I refuse to marry until I know I've found the girl I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with (and, of course, she feels the same way about me). But I do hope to one day settle down with a wife and some kids in a nice house in a quiet town in a good school-district.

What ~tangerine~ is saying is that women plan the wedding, they orchestrate it, they suss out all the details... and they do it because, fact is, women are way better at that stuff then men... period. However, normally, it's the man who proposes to the woman, not the other way around. And a man will not propose unless he wants to. No where on this planet will you find a guy who would propose to a woman just to make her happy.

For one thing, those engagement rings are just too damn expensive. If we're gonna spend the money, it better be because we want it as much as she does. Or else it just isn't worth-it. For another, marriage is a life-time commitment. Don't be fooled by the bullshit divorce ratings these days (I just don't understand why these fools get married... if you don't know, don't do it in the first place, duh... I blame those little Vegas Weddings for that). Most people who get married in truth (not as some last-minute idea, but honestly and truly want it) are madly in love with each other and plan on spending the rest of their lives together (a concept which truly does exist, despite your limited and narrow "experience").

And again, where do you dig up these "most men?" "Most men" I know have simply not married yet because either they are too young, don't have the time, aren't ready to make the commitment, or haven't found the one for them. "Most men" do want to settle down, spats. You exist in a minority. You may think you're in a majority, but I get the feeling that if you actually talked to your friends about it, you may find you perceived "majority" getting smaller and smaller.

You, sir, are sadly mistaken.

Side note:

Could anyone imagine a wedding planned entirely by the guy? Rehearsal dinner would be at Hooters. The service would be short-as-hell, the party would resemble a Bachelor party (strippers and all), beer would be the drink of choice, and the food would be bar food. And the music...

I'm actually kind of glad women plan the wedding. I think, as a guy, I'd crack under all that pressure...

You women really are stronger-willed and smarter then we are...

I'm an undeniably jealous Dave Grohl hater :D He actually looks like a fun guy to be around, it's just he's kinda always around, that's all. No actual hatred towards him intended, though I don't agree that everyone would act the same way if they were in the same position. Halfin's around him a lot, is a friend and fan, but he doesn't seem to take up so much space with it. Do you know what I mean? Anyway, take it easy, man.

Patrycja

Actually, I'd say Ross and Dave take up much of the same space, but Dave is much more famous, so, obviously, more often in the spotlight. Let's be honest. If you're a casual Zep fan, you don't much about Ross Halfin. Only us die-hards really know. I mean... yeah... magazines love him and his picks, but he isn't a Paparazzi target, if you know what I mean. David, on the other hand, is. And that isn't Dave's fault... that's the Paparazzi's fault.

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Why do you assume that all men think like you? And where do you dig up these "most men?"

I want to get married, for the record. I want 2 or 3 children, boys and girls. Of course, I don't want to be a divorce statistic, and I refuse to marry until I know I've found the girl I'm gonna spend the rest of my life with (and, of course, she feels the same way about me). But I do hope to one day settle down with a wife and some kids in a nice house in a quiet town in a good school-district.

What ~tangerine~ is saying is that women plan the wedding, they orchestrate it, they suss out all the details... and they do it because, fact is, women are way better at that stuff then men... period. However, normally, it's the man who proposes to the woman, not the other way around. And a man will not propose unless he wants to. No where on this planet will you find a guy who would propose to a woman just to make her happy.

For one thing, those engagement rings are just too damn expensive. If we're gonna spend the money, it better be because we want it as much as she does. Or else it just isn't worth-it. For another, marriage is a life-time commitment. Don't be fooled by the bullshit divorce ratings these days (I just don't understand why these fools get married... if you don't know, don't do it in the first place, duh... I blame those little Vegas Weddings for that). Most people who get married in truth (not as some last-minute idea, but honestly and truly want it) are madly in love with each other and plan on spending the rest of their lives together (a concept which truly does exist, despite your limited and narrow "experience").

And again, where do you dig up these "most men?" "Most men" I know have simply not married yet because either they are too young, don't have the time, aren't ready to make the commitment, or haven't found the one for them. "Most men" do want to settle down, spats. You exist in a minority. You may think you're in a majority, but I get the feeling that if you actually talked to your friends about it, you may find you perceived "majority" getting smaller and smaller.

You, sir, are sadly mistaken.

Side note:

Could anyone imagine a wedding planned entirely by the guy? Rehearsal dinner would be at Hooters. The service would be short-as-hell, the party would resemble a Bachelor party (strippers and all), beer would be the drink of choice, and the food would be bar food. And the music...

I'm actually kind of glad women plan the wedding. I think, as a guy, I'd crack under all that pressure...

You women really are stronger-willed and smarter then we are...

I don't believe women are better at planning or orchestrating things than men.

The reason most men propose to women is because they know that that is almost no way the woman will do it. She just won't. because women want to be the one proposed too. Just like how they dream of their wedding when they are little girls. They also dream about being proposed too. And the guy is the one who has to buy the expensive ring for exactly the same reason. Because there is no way she will agree to do it.

A lot of men will get married because the woman wants to and they don't want to lose her. Sort of like an ultimatum. I am sure there is a portion of men that truly want to get married and have a big wedding but i would not say they are the majority. And if i think most men would prefer it if the wedding were small or that they elope.

The super high divorce rate is real. Not made up.

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Actually, I'd say Ross and Dave take up much of the same space, but Dave is much more famous, so, obviously, more often in the spotlight. Let's be honest. If you're a casual Zep fan, you don't much about Ross Halfin. Only us die-hards really know. I mean... yeah... magazines love him and his picks, but he isn't a Paparazzi target, if you know what I mean. David, on the other hand, is. And that isn't Dave's fault... that's the Paparazzi's fault.

Yep, good point they may take up the same space, just in a different way. Grohl is undoubtedly the more famous of the two so he garners more attention. But it's personality, too; Dave's not what you'd call a wallflower, so it's more the contrast between Grohl and Halfin themselves I was aiming at, though surely there are outside factors. Dave's very passionate, and that's cool, just too in-your-face for my taste, that's all.

(Wait: You're not Dave Grohl are you?)

P

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I don't believe women are better at planning or orchestrating things than men.

The next time you go to a co-ed party, see who planned it and then check out the party. We regularly have singles parties organized by students here at GPC. Most party-goers here will agree that the best ones are organized by the women. And here's proof:

At all the co-ed singles parties planned by men, there's just beer, a little music, and mostly schmoozing. Basically... a home-made bar. And everyone leaves singles. At all the co-ed singles parties planned by women, there's not just beer, but all different kinds of alcohol, there's a lot of music and dancing... the last one I went planned by a woman even had drugs (as in weed, acid, etc).

In other words, when planned by men, they're boring. When planned by women, they're a lot of fun.

And if a man is really good at planning a huge, extravagant wedding... then it isn't his wedding unless he's marrying his boyfriend (I'm not dissing anyone... fact is, it's either women or gay men who are good at planning these kinds of thing... us straight guys just aren't competent enough).

The reason most men propose to women is because they know that that is almost no way the woman will do it. She just won't. because women want to be the one proposed too. Just like how they dream of their wedding when they are little girls. They also dream about being proposed too. And the guy is the one who has to buy the expensive ring for exactly the same reason. Because there is no way she will agree to do it.

Boy... you don't talk to anyone about this, do you? You just assume every guy thinks like you. Well guess what? You're W-R-O-N-G WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Okay... you'll be hard-pressed to find a guy who dreams about getting married. Most dream about being sports stars, music stars, or some kind of star. But most guys also want to settle down. There is NO GUY ON THIS PLANET who will buy a ridiculously expensive engagement ring just because the girl won't. They are TOO EXPENSIVE.

And have you ever seen an engagement ring? I'd proudly show one off on my intended's finger, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of them myself. Those things are so feminine I'm afraid wearing one might turn me into a woman. If you really want your girl to buy you and engagement ring, then I have no doubt that you really are gay. Because no straight guy would wear one of those things. Never. Just not gonna happen... at least... not until they make manly engagement rings. Maybe then you'll start seeing women propose to men more often. But until then, we guys kinda have to be the proposers. We don't want to wear those things.

A lot of men will get married because the woman wants to and they don't want to lose her. Sort of like an ultimatum. I am sure there is a portion of men that truly want to get married and have a big wedding but i would not say they are the majority. And if i think most men would prefer it if the wedding were small or that they elope.

Wrong again. A man will only marry a woman if he loves her and she loves him and they mutually agree to spend the rest of their lives together. A man has to want to before he will pop the question. Otherwise, he simply won't pop the question. That's a simple fact.

The super high divorce rate is real. Not made up.

I never said it was made-up. I know it's real. Quite real. And I hate it. And I blame Vegas for it.

Yep, good point they may take up the same space, just in a different way. Grohl is undoubtedly the more famous of the two so he garners more attention. But it's personality, too; Dave's not what you'd call a wallflower, so it's more the contrast between Grohl and Halfin themselves I was aiming at, though surely there are outside factors. Dave's very passionate, and that's cool, just too in-your-face for my taste, that's all.

Fair enough.

(Wait: You're not Dave Grohl are you?)

P

I wish! Hell... I wish I even had half as much fame and half as many connections as he did. To be friends with Page and Jones (and Plant)... that would be a dream-come-true!

Or you know what? I'd go for just a personalized pictured of Page, Plant, Jones, Jason Bonham, and myself. Even if I only meat them for one minute tops, that picture would be my prized possession for life!

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The next time you go to a co-ed party, see who planned it and then check out the party. We regularly have singles parties organized by students here at GPC. Most party-goers here will agree that the best ones are organized by the women. And here's proof:

At all the co-ed singles parties planned by men, there's just beer, a little music, and mostly schmoozing. Basically... a home-made bar. And everyone leaves singles. At all the co-ed singles parties planned by women, there's not just beer, but all different kinds of alcohol, there's a lot of music and dancing... the last one I went planned by a woman even had drugs (as in weed, acid, etc).

In other words, when planned by men, they're boring. When planned by women, they're a lot of fun.

And if a man is really good at planning a huge, extravagant wedding... then it isn't his wedding unless he's marrying his boyfriend (I'm not dissing anyone... fact is, it's either women or gay men who are good at planning these kinds of thing... us straight guys just aren't competent enough).

Boy... you don't talk to anyone about this, do you? You just assume every guy thinks like you. Well guess what? You're W-R-O-N-G WRONG!!!!!!!!!

Okay... you'll be hard-pressed to find a guy who dreams about getting married. Most dream about being sports stars, music stars, or some kind of star. But most guys also want to settle down. There is NO GUY ON THIS PLANET who will buy a ridiculously expensive engagement ring just because the girl won't. They are TOO EXPENSIVE.

And have you ever seen an engagement ring? I'd proudly show one off on my intended's finger, but I wouldn't be caught dead wearing one of them myself. Those things are so feminine I'm afraid wearing one might turn me into a woman. If you really want your girl to buy you and engagement ring, then I have no doubt that you really are gay. Because no straight guy would wear one of those things. Never. Just not gonna happen... at least... not until they make manly engagement rings. Maybe then you'll start seeing women propose to men more often. But until then, we guys kinda have to be the proposers. We don't want to wear those things.

Wrong again. A man will only marry a woman if he loves her and she loves him and they mutually agree to spend the rest of their lives together. A man has to want to before he will pop the question. Otherwise, he simply won't pop the question. That's a simple fact.

I never said it was made-up. I know it's real. Quite real. And I hate it. And I blame Vegas for it.

Fair enough.

I wish! Hell... I wish I even had half as much fame and half as many connections as he did. To be friends with Page and Jones (and Plant)... that would be a dream-come-true!

Or you know what? I'd go for just a personalized pictured of Page, Plant, Jones, Jason Bonham, and myself. Even if I only meat them for one minute tops, that picture would be my prized possession for life!

Dude, why do you put down your own gender? Women are more organized, strong willed, smarter, etc, What do you have against your own gender???

You assume every guy thinks like you too. I am going by the all the guys i have known over the years.

A guy will buy it for that reason and because he does not want to lose the girl. Because if she does not get the ring from him in time she will move on and get it from someone else. Brutal truth.

A guy does not have to wear an enagement ring. He can just wear a wedding band if he wants and she can propose to him with that. There does not even have to be an egagement ring.

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If I may...

I'm sick and tired of people bashing Dave Grohl. So he loves Led Zeppelin. So he dreams of hanging out with them and playing with them, and will shout it off the top of a mountain if asked (and I've only ever heard him talk about it when specifically asked about it by a reporter/interviewer). To me it just reeks of jealousy.

You know what? If I were a celebrity like David Grohl and in the same position, I would be the exact same way. And guess what? So would each and every one you. Don't deny it.

I would think we'd be proud to have any celebrity be such a big fan.

Actually, I'm just sick and tired of Zep fans bashing any celebrity who calls themselves a Led Zeppelin fan. Another great example of this is Avril Lavigne. Remember not too long before or after O2 she was pictured wearing that Zeppelin shirt? There were a lot of fans saying she wasn't an actual fan, but following the masses. Guess what? I've met her... twice. The first time we met, we spent an hour talking about Led Zeppelin. She loves them. She has all their albums. Yes, okay, her favorite album is IV, but her favorite song is Battle of Evermore.

It's jealousy, pure and simple. We here aren't celebrities, and as such don't have the connections they do... they could hook up with any member of Zep whenever they wanted to. I think we're jealous of that, so we turn around and bash them for being fans.

Like I said... if I were in Grohl's shoes, I'd be the exact same way, and so would all of you.

Don't deny it, because you're only denying the truth. Period.

Disagree with all of this- Grohl really gets on my t*ts.

(Oh OK - not all - I never bashed Avril - in fact I've continually stood up for celeb fans of Zeppelin, saying there is no reason on earth why being a celeb excludes you from the possibility of being a true Zeppelin fan)

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Dude, why do you put down your own gender? Women are more organized, strong willed, smarter, etc, What do you have against your own gender???

You assume every guy thinks like you too. I am going by the all the guys i have known over the years.

A guy will buy it for that reason and because he does not want to lose the girl. Because if she does not get the ring from him in time she will move on and get it from someone else. Brutal truth.

A guy does not have to wear an enagement ring. He can just wear a wedding band if he wants and she can propose to him with that. There does not even have to be an egagement ring.

I wouldn't worry about it too much Spats....let's just get a DATE first OK?!

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Dude, why do you put down your own gender? Women are more organized, strong willed, smarter, etc, What do you have against your own gender???

I have nothing against my own gender. It is a FACT that in some things women are better then men. Period.

There are a lot of differences between men and women. Here's one that'll make you happy. Men are generally a lot physically stronger. We are the protectors in the human race, after all. We are also much more emotionally in control, especially considering we don't have that "time of the month." That isn't to say we don't have our emotional issues, because I think every girl on this planet can attest to guys having emotional issues (for example... I know I'm quick to anger... I know I have a devil in me... and I know that because normally I'm not that strong... but I once out a Full Back in the hospital because he tried to rape my girlfriend... then he put me in teh hospital after he got out... and both times no weapons were used). But we can be a little more level-headed and don't generally let our emotions or feelings get in the way... that's the reason young children tend to bond closer with their mother then their father. The mother protects the child when (s)he is young, while the father has more fun with the child and exposes him to real life. Both have their purposes, and, when in balance, provides the formula for raising a normal, healthy child.

Women, on the other-hand, are stronger-willed and quite a bit more organized. Women also tend to follow morals quite a bit better then men because they do follow their emotions. Sometimes that's a good thing, and has stopped many an immoral mistake. Some of the best male-leaders in the history of the world had a strong-willed woman behind them that they listened to for moral guidance and support.

The reason we have different strengths and weaknesses is because we play different roles in this world and need our strengths and weaknesses to play our correct roles.

It's why God can't be a man or a woman. No man could ever create something as beautiful, as organized, or as perfectly balanced as Planet Earth, yet no woman could ever create/abide as much chaos and disorder as has been seen here on Planet Earth.

You assume every guy thinks like you too. I am going by the all the guys i have known over the years.

And I am going by all the guys I have known over the years.

And famous men agree with me, not you...

Alfred Adler:

"We only regard those unions as real examples of love and real marriages in which a fixed and unalterable decision has been taken. If men or women contemplate an escape, they do not collect all their powers for the task. In none of the serious and important tasks of life do we arrange such a "getaway." We cannot love and be limited."

Georg C. Lichtenberg:

"Love is blind, but marriage restores its sight."

Homer:

"There is nothing nobler or more admirable than when two people who see eye to eye keep house as man and wife, confounding their enemies and delighting their friends."

Joseph Barth:

"Marriage is our last, best chance to grow up."

Mark Twain:

"After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her."

Tom Mullen:

"Happy marriages begin when we marry the ones we love, and they blossom when we love the ones we marry."

A guy will buy it for that reason and because he does not want to lose the girl. Because if she does not get the ring from him in time she will move on and get it from someone else. Brutal truth.

If he does not buy the ring then he does not want to marry the girl and is okay with losing her in the end. You are simply agreeing with me.

A guy does not have to wear an enagement ring. He can just wear a wedding band if he wants and she can propose to him with that. There does not even have to be an egagement ring.

You do not ask someone to marry you with a wedding band. Wedding bands are sacred. You only get a wedding band when you get married. That is why it's called a wedding band. If it could be given as an engagement ring, it'd be called an engagement band.

Disagree with all of this- Grohl really gets on my t*ts.

I could make a comment on this, but I'll refrain... :D

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I have nothing against my own gender. It is a FACT that in some things women are better then men. Period.

There are a lot of differences between men and women. Here's one that'll make you happy. Men are generally a lot physically stronger. We are the protectors in the human race, after all. We are also much more emotionally in control, especially considering we don't have that "time of the month." That isn't to say we don't have our emotional issues, because I think every girl on this planet can attest to guys having emotional issues (for example... I know I'm quick to anger... I know I have a devil in me... and I know that because normally I'm not that strong... but I once out a Full Back in the hospital because he tried to rape my girlfriend... then he put me in teh hospital after he got out... and both times no weapons were used). But we can be a little more level-headed and don't generally let our emotions or feelings get in the way... that's the reason young children tend to bond closer with their mother then their father. The mother protects the child when (s)he is young, while the father has more fun with the child and exposes him to real life. Both have their purposes, and, when in balance, provides the formula for raising a normal, healthy child.

Women, on the other-hand, are stronger-willed and quite a bit more organized. Women also tend to follow morals quite a bit better then men because they do follow their emotions. Sometimes that's a good thing, and has stopped many an immoral mistake. Some of the best male-leaders in the history of the world had a strong-willed woman behind them that they listened to for moral guidance and support.

The reason we have different strengths and weaknesses is because we play different roles in this world and need our strengths and weaknesses to play our correct roles.

It's why God can't be a man or a woman. No man could ever create something as beautiful, as organized, or as perfectly balanced as Planet Earth, yet no woman could ever create/abide as much chaos and disorder as has been seen here on Planet Earth.

And I am going by all the guys I have known over the years.

And famous men agree with me, not you...

Alfred Adler:

"We only regard those unions as real examples of love and real marriages in which a fixed and unalterable decision has been taken. If men or women contemplate an escape, they do not collect all their powers for the task. In none of the serious and important tasks of life do we arrange such a "getaway." We cannot love and be limited."

Georg C. Lichtenberg:

"Love is blind, but marriage restores its sight."

Homer:

"There is nothing nobler or more admirable than when two people who see eye to eye keep house as man and wife, confounding their enemies and delighting their friends."

Joseph Barth:

"Marriage is our last, best chance to grow up."

Mark Twain:

"After all these years, I see that I was mistaken about Eve in the beginning; it is better to live outside the Garden with her than inside it without her."

Tom Mullen:

"Happy marriages begin when we marry the ones we love, and they blossom when we love the ones we marry."

If he does not buy the ring then he does not want to marry the girl and is okay with losing her in the end. You are simply agreeing with me.

You do not ask someone to marry you with a wedding band. Wedding bands are sacred. You only get a wedding band when you get married. That is why it's called a wedding band. If it could be given as an engagement ring, it'd be called an engagement band.

I could make a comment on this, but I'll refrain... :D

I don't agree on most of what you said. I don't agree that women are better at all those things. You shouldn't act like they are on a higher level than us. We are equal. And I can find just as many quotes saying the opposite about marriage and the whole thing.

There does not even have to be an engagement ring at all.Either way the woman will do none of that so the guy has to if he wants to keep her. Not the right way to go about it. It's an ultimatum.

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I don't agree on most of what you said. I don't agree that women are better at all those things. You shouldn't act like they are on a higher level than us. We are equal. And I can find just as many quotes saying the opposite about marriage and the whole thing.

For chrissake I'm not putting them on a higher level! There are things we are better then them at, and things they are better then us at! It's supposed to be that way, so we can work together flawlessly!

Boy you really don't get it, do you?

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For chrissake I'm not putting them on a higher level! There are things we are better then them at, and things they are better then us at! It's supposed to be that way, so we can work together flawlessly!

Boy you really don't get it, do you?

You said that women were smarter than men, that the world would not be the way it is if women were in charge. The only thing you said men had over women was strength. That's not saying much.

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I don't agree on most of what you said. I don't agree that women are better at all those things. You shouldn't act like they are on a higher level than us. We are equal. And I can find just as many quotes saying the opposite about marriage and the whole thing.

There does not even have to be an engagement ring at all.Either way the woman will do none of that so the guy has to if he wants to keep her. Not the right way to go about it. It's an ultimatum.

Spats, a ring is a symbol, it need not break the bank, it personifies your emotions towards each other and also at a more primal level marks the woman as 'taken'. I'm sure you don't approach women with engagement or wedding rings on and I even know some women who will put a ring on if they go out with girlfriends and don't want to be bothered.

Um...yeah, I can see you picking out the colors for the wedding and making sure the frosting on the cake matches the napkins just right, and hmmmm, what china should we use, and we need to offer at least 2 main courses, and the lighting and the flowers and picking out the invitations. TRADITIONALLY the female does this stuff but as we move away from tradition grooms are getting more involved in the decisions but the bride usually picks her bridesmaids dresses and the colors that the groom and groomsmen will be wearing....if you want to totally change tradition, feel free to but I do think you'll have a hard time getting a woman to ask you to marry them when you are stuggling to get a date at this point in time. Just sayin' B)

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Spats, a ring is a symbol, it need not break the bank, it personifies your emotions towards each other and also at a more primal level marks the woman as 'taken'. I'm sure you don't approach women with engagement or wedding rings on and I even know some women who will put a ring on if they go out with girlfriends and don't want to be bothered.

Um...yeah, I can see you picking out the colors for the wedding and making sure the frosting on the cake matches the napkins just right, and hmmmm, what china should we use, and we need to offer at least 2 main courses, and the lighting and the flowers and picking out the invitations. TRADITIONALLY the female does this stuff but as we move away from tradition grooms are getting more involved in the decisions but the bride usually picks her bridesmaids dresses and the colors that the groom and groomsmen will be wearing....if you want to totally change tradition, feel free to but I do think you'll have a hard time getting a woman to ask you to marry them when you are stuggling to get a date at this point in time. Just sayin' B)

I am not old fashioned at all or into tradition so i don't think marriage is heading my way in this lifetime.

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You said that women were smarter than men, that the world would not be the way it is if women were in charge. The only thing you said men had over women was strength. That's not saying much.

I did say women were smarter. I did NOT say the world would be better off if women ruled it. I said that God could be neither because while no man can have created the world, no woman could have created the chaos, and that is a fact.

Men have strength over women, we are more level-headed then women (at times), we don't lead by our emotions as much as women (and therefore are better at making laws because there's more of a chance of neutrality when a man writes a law), and we tend to use our minds more often. We are, at times, better leaders, especially at times of war (women may actually be better leaders in times of peace, however). We show less mercy then women, and so will be more ruthless on our enemies. We tend to be more selfish, and for leaders this is actually a strength.

That said, women tend to be more moral. Women are also much more organized. Women are much more protective then we men are. Women have more common sense then we do in a lot of things. Women tend to follow a lot less then men do (men believe in the whole, and see the big picture, whereas women believe in the parts and see what creates the big picture). Women show more mercy, and so f an enemy is not truly an enemy, a woman will realize it before a man. It is a woman who gets the innocent off faster.

Women are better with money. They save more often (if you look at statistics for savings accounts, you will find that more women have savings accounts then men), and so women tend to have more frilly things. Women also buy smaller. Whereas men buy houses and giant televisions and cars, women by jewelry and clothes and shoes... women own more because they buy cheaper things.

Women are also quite a bit more selfless. And I know how you view this one. I'm not talking about nabbing a guy, doing the work, and all that. I mean in the big picture: women are quite a bit more philanthropic. You see more women volunteering their time to help others then men. When writing out budget lists, women put charity at the top, where men don't give it such an important spot.

In the end, we are useless without each other. If there were no opposites, or we were all the same, and had all the same strengths, the human race would have died out hundreds of thousands of years ago. It is our different strengths and our different weaknesses that keep us alive.

No woman would have created the atomic bomb, but no man would have allowed Pearl Harbor to go unpunished.

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I don't agree on most of what you said. I don't agree that women are better at all those things. You shouldn't act like they are on a higher level than us. We are equal.

Do you read..............................at all? Men and women are not equal. Not physically, not mentally, not emotionally. Men and women are different. We think differently, we act differently, we learn differently, we behave differently.

Anyone with a BASIC knowledge of biology, sociology, and psychology knows these things. Face facts, you are wrong about this.

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Do you read..............................at all? Men and women are not equal. Not physically, not mentally, not emotionally. Men and women are different. We think differently, we act differently, we learn differently, we behave differently.

Anyone with a BASIC knowledge of biology, sociology, and psychology knows these things. Face facts, you are wrong about this.

Thank you. You said it quite more eloquently and simply then I could have... :)

This is proof right here of the differences between men and women.

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I did say women were smarter. I did NOT say the world would be better off if women ruled it. I said that God could be neither because while no man can have created the world, no woman could have created the chaos, and that is a fact.

Men have strength over women, we are more level-headed then women (at times), we don't lead by our emotions as much as women (and therefore are better at making laws because there's more of a chance of neutrality when a man writes a law), and we tend to use our minds more often. We are, at times, better leaders, especially at times of war (women may actually be better leaders in times of peace, however). We show less mercy then women, and so will be more ruthless on our enemies. We tend to be more selfish, and for leaders this is actually a strength.

That said, women tend to be more moral. Women are also much more organized. Women are much more protective then we men are. Women have more common sense then we do in a lot of things. Women tend to follow a lot less then men do (men believe in the whole, and see the big picture, whereas women believe in the parts and see what creates the big picture). Women show more mercy, and so f an enemy is not truly an enemy, a woman will realize it before a man. It is a woman who gets the innocent off faster.

Women are better with money. They save more often (if you look at statistics for savings accounts, you will find that more women have savings accounts then men), and so women tend to have more frilly things. Women also buy smaller. Whereas men buy houses and giant televisions and cars, women by jewelry and clothes and shoes... women own more because they buy cheaper things.

Women are also quite a bit more selfless. And I know how you view this one. I'm not talking about nabbing a guy, doing the work, and all that. I mean in the big picture: women are quite a bit more philanthropic. You see more women volunteering their time to help others then men. When writing out budget lists, women put charity at the top, where men don't give it such an important spot.

In the end, we are useless without each other. If there were no opposites, or we were all the same, and had all the same strengths, the human race would have died out hundreds of thousands of years ago. It is our different strengths and our different weaknesses that keep us alive.

No woman would have created the atomic bomb, but no man would have allowed Pearl Harbor to go unpunished.

Again, i don't agree. Most if not all of those are generalizations.

Although i do agree that women are more into mushy stuff than men unfortunately. I would love to meet a girl that loves Tarantino movies. They are hard to find.

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Again, i don't agree. Most if not all of those are generalizations.

History proves me right, spats. So does the institution of mother and father.

In fact, if you just look through the opinions of men and women on different subjects on this board, you can see proof that I'm right.

They may be generalizations, but all generalizations are based in fact, or else the generalizations would never have been made in the first place. And these are generalizations agreed upon by most people who live in reality.

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History proves me right, spats. So does the institution of mother and father. So does the difference between male and female cops.

In fact, if you just look through the opinions of men and women on different subjects on this board, you can see proof that I'm right.

They may be generalizations, but all generalizations are based in fact, or else the generalizations would never have been made in the first place. And these are generalizations agreed upon by most people who live in reality.

I am told i generalize all the time and that it's wrong to do it.

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I am told i generalize all the time and that it's wrong to do it.

Ahh, but you're generalizations are wrong... based on your own narrow experience. You generalize that all men hate weddings, don't want to get married, and only do it to make the girl happy. You generalize that men are just as good as women in every aspect.

I agree we are equal. But we are only equal in that we are different... we are opposite.

Every strength a man has is a woman's weakness. Every strength a woman has is a man's weakness. This is nature. It is why we can (or, at least, are supposed to) function so well together.

There is such a thing as universal generalizations. These are based in fact, and are not wrong because they are true, most of the time (note I said most of the time, not all of the time). These generalizations you stubbornly reject, instead relying on your own, despite the fact that everyone else, as well as history, tells you that yours are wrong and the universal ones are right.

I have a list for you. Within it, I will highlight the things, for your pleasure, that make a man look good (any side notes I make will be in italics):

http://baetzler.de/humor/differences_men_women.html:

The Differences Between Men and Women

Relationships:

First of all, a man does not call a relationship a relationship - he refers to it as "that time when me and Suzie was doing it on a semi-regular basis". When a relationship ends, a woman will cry and pour her heart out to her girlfriends, and she will write a poem titled "All Men Are Idiots". Then she will get on with her life.

A man has a little more trouble letting go. Six months after the break-up, at 3:00 a.m. on a Saturday night, he will call and say, "I just wanted to let you know you ruined my life, and I'll never forgive you, and I hate you, and you're a total floozy. But I want you to know there's always a chance for us". This is known as the "I Hate You/I Love You" drunken phone call, that 99% of all men have made at least once. There are community colleges that offer courses to help men get over this need; alas, these classes rarely prove effective.

Sex:

Women prefer 30 - 45 minutes of foreplay. Men prefer 30 - 45 seconds of foreplay. Men consider driving back to her place as part of the foreplay.

Maturity:

Women mature much faster than men. Most 17-year-old females can function as adults. Most 17-year-old males are still trading baseball cards and giving each other wedgies after gym class. This is why high school romances rarely work.

Hats:

Women look good in hats; men look like dinks.

Comedy:

Let's say a small group of men and women are in a room, watching television, and an episode of "The Three Stooges" comes on. Immediately, the men will get very excited; they will laugh uproariously, and even try to imitate the actions of Curly, man's favorite stooge. The women will roll their eys and groan and wait it out.

Handwriting:

To their credit, men do not decorate their penmanship. They just chicken-scratch. Women use scented, colored stationary and they dot their "i's" with circles and hearts. Women use ridiculously large loops in their "p's" and "g's". It is a royal pain to read a note from a woman. Even when she's dumping you, she'll put a smiley face at the end of the note.

Bathrooms:

A man has at most six items in his bathroom - a toothbrush, toothpaste, shaving cream, razor, a bar of Dial soap, and a towel from the Holiday Inn. The average number of items in a typical woman's bathroom is 437. A man would not be able to identify most of these items.

Magazines:

Men's magazines often feature pictures of naked ladies. Women's magazine also feature pictures of naked ladies. This is because the female body is a beautiful work of art, while the male body is hairy and lumpy and should not be seen by the light of day.

(I agree with this 100%... God spent tons of time on the female body... he either rushed it with the male body or just didn't care)

Groceries:

A woman makes a list of things she needs and then goes to the store and buys these things. A man waits till the only items left in his fridge are half a lemon and something turning green. Then he goes grocery shopping. He buys everything that looks good. By the time a man reaches the checkout counter, his cart is packed tighter that the Clampett's car on Beverly Hillbillies. Of course, this will not stop him from going to the 10-items-or-less lane.

(Women are more organized then men)

Going out:

When a man says he is ready to go out, it means he is ready to go out. When a woman says she is ready to go out, it means she will be ready to go out, as soon as she finds her other earring, finishes putting on her makeup...

Shoes:

When preparing for work, a woman will put on a Mondi wool suit, and then slip into Reebok sneakers. She will carry her dress shoes in a plastic bag from Saks. When a woman gets to work, she will put on her dress shoes. Five minutes later, she will kick them off because her feet are under her desk. A man will wear one pair of shoes for the entire day.

(WTF is it with women and shoes, if I may ask?)

Leg warmers:

Leg warmers are sexy. A woman, even if she's walking the dog or doing the dishes, is allowed to wear leg warmers. She can wear them any time she wants.

A man can only wear leg warmers if he is auditioning for the "Gimme the Ball" number in "A Chorus Line".

Cats:

Women love cats. Men say they love cats, but when women aren't looking, men kick cats.

Mirrors:

Men are vain; they will check themselves out in the mirror. Women are ridiculous; they will check out their reflections in any shiny surface--mirrors, spoons, store windows, toasters, Joe Garagiola's head.

(Men and women are both vain... only women are more vain)

Garages:

Women use garages to park their cars and to store their lawnmowers. Men use garages for many things. They hang license plates in garages, and they watch TV in garages, and they build useless lopsided benches in garages.

Movies:

For women, their favorite movie scene is when Clark Gable kisses Vivien Leigh for the first time in "Gone With The Wind". For men, it's when Jimmy Cagney shoves a grapefruit in Mae Clark's face in "Public Enemy".

Jewelry:

Women look nice when they wear jewelry. A man can get away with wearing one ring, and that's it. Any more than that, and he will look like a lounge singer named Vic.

Menopause:

When a woman reaches menopause, she goes through a variety of complicated emotional, psychological, and biological changes. The nature and degree of the changes varies with the individual. Menopause in a man provokes a uniform reaction--he buys aviator glasses, a snazzy French cap and leather driving gloves, and goes shopping for a Porsche.

The Telephone:

Men see the telephone as a communications tool. They use the telephone to send short messages to other people. A woman can visit her girlfriend for two weeks, and upon returning home, she will call the same friend and they will talk for three hours.

Low Blows:

Let's say a man and a woman are watching a boxing match on television. One of the fighters is felled by a low blow. The woman says "Oh, gee, that must hurt." The man doubles over and actually feels pain.

Directions:

If a woman is out driving and she finds herself in unfamiliar surroundings, she will stop at a gas station and ask for directions. Men consider this to be a sign of weakness. Men will never stop and ask for directions. Men will drive in a circle for hours, all the while saying things like, "Looks like I've found a new way to get there", and, "I know I'm in the neighborhood. I recognize that White Hen store".

Admitting Mistakes:

Women will sometimes admit making a mistake. The last man who admitted that he was wrong was Gen. George Custer.

Richard Gere:

Women like Richard Gere because he is sexy in a dangerous way. Men hate Richard Gere because he reminds them of that slick guy who works at the health club and dates only married women.

Offspring:

Ah, children. A woman knows all about her children. She knows about dentist appointments and soccer games and romances and best friends and favorite foods and secret fears and hopes and dreams. A man is vaguely aware of some short people living in the house.

Dressing up:

A woman will dress up to go shopping, water the plants, empty the garbage answer the phone, read a book, get the mail. A man will dress up for: weddings, funerals.

Nudity in Movies:

Every actress in the history of movies has had to do a nude scene. This is because every movie in the history of movies has been produced by a man. The only actor who has ever appeared nude in the movies is Richard Gere. This is another reason why men hate him.

David Letterman:

Men think David Letterman is the funniest man on the face of the Earth. Women think he is a mean, semi-dorky guy who always has a bad haircut.

Cameras:

Men take photography very seriously. They'll shell out $4,000 for state-of-the-art equipment, and build darkrooms, and take photography classes. Women purchase Kodak Instamatics. Of course, women always end up taking better pictures.

(Actually, I do not think this one is true. I see tons more women with cameras. Now if we're talking movie cameras... I'd have to think about that)

Politics:

Men love to talk politics, but often they forget to do political things such as voting. Women are very happy that another generation of Kennedys is growing up and getting into politics, because they will be able to campaign for them and cry on election night.

Locker Rooms:

In the locker room, men talk about three things: money, football, and women. They exaggerate about money, they don't know football nearly as well as they think they do, and they fabricate stories about women. Women talk about one thing in the locker room--sex. And not in abstract terms, either. They are extremely graphic and technical, and they never lie.

Laundry:

Women do laundry every couple of days. A man will wear every article of clothing he owns, including his surgical pants that were hip about eight years ago, before he will do the laundry. When he is finally out of clothes, he will wear a dirty sweatshirt inside out, rent a U-Haul and take his mountain of clothes to the laundromat. Men always expect to meet beautiful women at the laundromat. This is a myth.

Weddings:

When reminiscing about weddings, women talk about "the ceremony". Men talk about "the bachelor party".

Cheerleaders:

Female cheerleaders are cute, sexy, fresh, and all-American. Male cheerleaders are scary.

Socks:

Men wear sensible socks. They wear standard white sweatsocks. Women wear strange socks. They are cut way below the ankles, have pictues of clouds on them, and have a big fuzzy ball on the back.

Toys:

Little girls love to play with toys. Then, when they reach the age of 11 or 12, they lose interest. Men never grow out of their obsession wih toys. As they older, their toys simply become more expensive and impractical. Examples of men's toys: little miniature TV's, car phones, complicated juicers and blenders, graphic equalizers, small robots that serve cocktails on command, video games, anything that blinks, beeps, and requires at least six "D" batteries to operate.

Plants:

A woman asks a man to water her plants while she is on vacation. The man waters the plants. The woman comes home five days later, to an apartment full of dead plants. No one knows why this happens.

Mustaches:

Some men look good with mustaches. Those men are Tom Selleck and Burt Reynolds. There are no women who look good with mustaches.

Nicknames:

With the exception of female body-builders, who call each other names like "Ultimate Pecs" and "Big Turk", women eschew the use of nicknames. If Gloria, Suzanne, Deborah and Michelle get together for lunch, they will call each other Gloria, Suzanne, Deborah and Michelle. But if Mike, Dave, Rob and Jack go out for a brewsky, they will affectionately refer to each other as Bullet-Head, Godzilla, Peanut Brain and Useless.

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