Rock Action Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Unless a person is classified as legally "mentally incompetent", they have a right to vote. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, even older folks have a lot to gain/lose, as it affects their children and the generations to come. And it IS a RIGHT, not a privilege. If you are a citizen of the US and pay taxes, you've earned the right. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelmon Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 ^ You don't even have to pay taxes !! Just dont get convicted of tax evasion !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Action Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 ^ You don't even have to pay taxes !! Just dont get convicted of tax evasion !!!! Always an angle, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelmon Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Always an angle, eh? Yea....better than being on a flat plain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 uh, nice sound bite, but voting actually IS a right. As long as you're 18 and have no criminal record, you have the right to vote. IQ tests for voting sound more and more reasonable, huh. A right is something that cannot be taken away. Felons cannot vote. Thus it is not a right, but a priviledge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Zeppnile Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Remember the days when only land owning white men were allowed to vote? Well, I guess the result still stays the same anyway. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I think you may have missed my point. Correct me if I'm wrong, but persons in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s are also adults... In addition to being (for the most part) working adults, those in the 20-60 age range also raise families. Hence, they have twice as much to lose as those 70+ citizens. Why do states rescind drivers licenses of some seniors? Certainly they have all those valuable years of driving experience, right? Voting is a privilege, not an earned right. Voting is a right. Some consider it an obligation. I think it borders on dangerous for folks to consider it a privilege, and only for certain groups of people to do. I'm quite happy that my 70 year old dad votes. He keeps up with issues, and carefully considers his options. For every older person with memory problems, etc. I know, there are a couple twentysomethings with severe indifference. Yes, there are folks who shouldn't be driving, like my 69 year old mom, but she's still competent enough to keep up with things and to vote. I'll take her decisions, even if she's a bit vague around the edges, over some dipzoid's obstinant indifference. I get real disgusted with some of the election results around here... but the age of the voters has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 A right is something that cannot be taken away. Felons cannot vote. Thus it is not a right, but a priviledge Wrong. Felons lose their "civil rights", including the right to vote. That is what they are called- civil rights. Felons can also apply to have their "rights" restored, including their right to vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Wrong. Felons lose their "civil rights", including the right to vote. That is what they are called- civil rights. Felons can also apply to have their "rights" restored, including their right to vote. Oh snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Stating that mental faculties begin to deteriorate around the age of 65 is a GROSS generalization and patently untrue. Given that life expectancy is getting longer and longer, the average senior has a HUGE stake in the governmental process. Your statement brings to mind and old saying "Youth is wasted on the young." In answer to your final question, YES you are. I agree! Oh S%&T! I just realized I'm registered as a Dem., In the primary I can only vote along party lines Crap what was I thinking, no one to vote for this weekend Ron Paul get off that neo-con ticket and run Indi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzatlanta73 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I was 17 when the voting age was lowered to 18 and was so happy to be able to vote -- this was during Vietnam and our thinking was if you are old enought to die for your country you should have a say--I still believe this. I have voted in every national election since 1972. As to people being too old to vote--never. There are very few oldsters that should not vote due to whatever and their families know who they are. As to driving age, yes, we should ALL be tested periodically and not because of age only. We all know people of all ages who should not be driving..right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I actually think younger people are more of a danger on the roadways than someone my parents' age or older. I am sure there are exceptions, but I haven't seen a lot of older people (50s-60s+) swerving lanes because they're changing the radio station or texting someone or yapping on a cell phone. The majority of people I see behaving like that on the road are my age and a little older. Not to mention, how many times have we heard on TV or the radio about another car accident caused by a 16 year old driver who just got their license and was driving like a bat out of hell? If anything they need to raise the driving age to 18. I know here in Georgia, they've proposed raising the minimum age to acquire a learner's permit to 17; not sure if it's passed yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Derigable Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I don't care if old people can vote, but do they have to have the right to drive. they kill more people with the old wrong pedal excuse then teenagers have! but then agian SUV's kill more peolpe then bullets. you only hear about the teenagers because teenagers don't watch the news, but old people do. Idiots kill people not age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hi all, Bull hockey: Only the good die young KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelmon Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Voting is a right...as explained by LoS.... Driving is a privliledge that can be rovoked by the authorities for infractions. I laugh when I'm riding a bicycle. Sometimes people think I'm in their way for the sheer fact I'm on the roadway ( believe me, I STAY out of their way)....so, I occasionally get honks...the kind that mean...get OFF the road. I have come up to those drivers at intersections and quickly explained....their presence on the road is a priviledge...my presence on the road, on a BICYCLE is a right. They can have their privilege revoked, my right to riding a bicycle on the roadway can't be revoked. Funny when they try to understand that.....hahahahaa..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pb Derigable Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Yeah i could see why the no1 cause of death for young people is car crashes. Young people normaly don't die of old age, in which heart faliure and cancer normaly does not happen to young people. I know young people die from cancer but not nearly as much as older people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TypeO Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Why is "once people reach 65 they lose their mental faculties" in quotations? I never said that, nor did I say the other quoted comment. OK, I para-phrased you - I think it captured the gist of your statement, as QUOTED below... It's a fact that mental faculties begin to deteriorate around the age of 65 (give or take) and again, when I para-phrased you below... "they have no concern for society since they won't be around much longer anyway" what you specifically said was also, I would be so bold as to say a 70+ year old does not have the same stake (for lack of a better word) in society as a twenty, thirty, forty, or fifty-something. Should someone so near the end of life's natural course be allowed a vote that could affect the younger generations' lives? I think that was a fairly accurate description of your comment, though not verbatim... Finally, your responses to me have a hint of venom in them. Why? I'm not attacking you. Nor am I attacking you. Venom? Nah, I'm not poisonous. But you sure read a lot into my responses for someone who seems to split atoms when someone isn't word for word when referencing your comments. I merely started a new thread on an internet forum... Word of the Day - DISINGENUOUS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepyep Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Hi all, Voting is a right...as explained by LoS.... Driving is a privliledge that can be rovoked by the authorities for infractions. And voting isn't? Commit a felony,like armed robbery,.....you will be evoked,when you get out,... I laugh when I'm riding a bicycle. Sometimes people think I'm in their way for the sheer fact I'm on the roadway ( believe me, I STAY out of their way)....so, I occasionally get honks...the kind that mean...get OFF the road. Try riding a motorcycle,.....talk about looks!Unlike a bike,I can brake with my foot and give them the piece-of-my-mind sign Nope go green,good way to get around,...just remember the rules of the road apply to you also. I have come up to those drivers at intersections and quickly explained....their presence on the road is a priviledge...my presence on the road, on a BICYCLE is a right. They can have their privilege revoked, my right to riding a bicycle on the roadway can't be revoked. Drive drunk on a tractor/lawn mower and see what happens,... Funny when they try to understand that.....hahahahaa..... Yep,hahahah, when the 1 ton vehicle may run your a$$ over,hahahah! KB (Let's be careful out there) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I don't care if old people can vote, but do they have to have the right to drive. they kill more people with the old wrong pedal excuse then teenagers have! but then agian SUV's kill more peolpe then bullets. you only hear about the teenagers because teenagers don't watch the news, but old people do. Idiots kill people not age. I don't suppose you could back any of those statements up with a source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Voting is a right...as explained by LoS.... Driving is a privliledge that can be rovoked by the authorities for infractions. I laugh when I'm riding a bicycle. Sometimes people think I'm in their way for the sheer fact I'm on the roadway ( believe me, I STAY out of their way)....so, I occasionally get honks...the kind that mean...get OFF the road. Eh, you may very well be in their way, depending upon the road. However, a lot of drivers are jerks and roadhogs, so I don't doubt you get unkind honks. OTOH, I've seen roadhog bike riders too... (and those folks that do message delivery stuff are insane). I have come up to those drivers at intersections and quickly explained....their presence on the road is a priviledge...my presence on the road, on a BICYCLE is a right. They can have their privilege revoked, my right to riding a bicycle on the roadway can't be revoked. Funny when they try to understand that.....hahahahaa..... Your 'Right' to be on the road is not sacrosanct and it can be limited, even if your "right" to ride a bike doesn't require a license and there are a lot of roadways that prohibit riding/driving unmotorized vehicles on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRB Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Looks like the near consensus says the old folks should be safe at the polls, and that's as it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidmoon Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 Unless a person is classified as legally "mentally incompetent", they have a right to vote. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, even older folks have a lot to gain/lose, as it affects their children and the generations to come. And it IS a RIGHT, not a privilege. If you are a citizen of the US and pay taxes, you've earned the right. Period. Excellent answer! This is what I was anticipating when I started the thread. You made a reasoned point and did so without a personal attack. Thank you! In some of the earlier responses you'd think I proposed euthanising all senior citizens... My only disagreement with your response is this: Voting is a Legal Right, and thus is a benefit/privilege. Legal Rights are earned -- but not earned indefinitely. You said yourself that "unless a person is classified as legally 'mentally incompetent', they have a right to vote." So it's clear that what is earned can be rescinded. And something given but can also be taken away is a privilege. In the case of voting, this privilege is a Legal Right. If voting were a Right in the strict sense, the Moral sense, then one would be endowed with it despite youth or mental incompetence -- as is the case with the (moral) right to life. And speaking of mental incompetence, this is what I was driving at in my initial post. It is an unfortunate mistake that I wasn't more clear about this. What I meant was that, given certain medical statistics about age-related cognitive decline (ARCD), should there be a default age at which voting privileges are removed? This age could be 80, 90, 100, or whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidmoon Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 I agree! If you agree with Planted In My Mind, see my response to PIMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidmoon Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 They have already "paid" for their right - literally and figuratively. You are making very narrow-minded generalizations here - "once people reach 65 they lose their mental faculties" "they have no concern for society since they won't be around much longer anyway" wow. hate to be your grandparents. Pardon me if I take it as an attack if someone accuses me of making "narrow-minded generalizations" and then proceeds to "paraphrase" what I said into oblivion. I'm not inventing the notion that cognitive function begins to decline around age 65. Do a Google search, or look at the links I posted earlier. Pardon me if I take it as an attack if someone tells me they'd hate to be my grandparent. Perhaps you meant this in a positive sense? You're right, I was probably reading too much into it. Pardon me if I take it as an attack if instead of using a reasoned argument to advance their position someone gainsays my comment and then questions my intelligence. "The More You Know" -- I'm sure you weren't implying anything with this either; yeah, I maybe just read too much into it. You think I was being disingenuous, that's fine. I think I was just trying to keep things in perspective. I asked a question on an internet forum to spark some spirited discussion and, at least initially, received some unduly negative responses. It wasn't what I had anticipated, to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bong-Man Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I asked a question on an internet forum to spark some spirited discussion and, at least initially, received some unduly negative responses. It wasn't what I had anticipated, to say the least. If you truly expected a spirited discussion, then some unduly negative responses come with the territory. Consider the negative responses....and consider that there isn't even anyone over 65 to defend themsleves on this board. If there was, you'd be taking some serious shots from the so-called mentally impaired. Nothing personal, but I think they'd tear you up. If you feel that we should be worried about the reduced cognitive abilities of senior citizens, then we should probably also worry about people who cast a vote while under the influence of alcohol, illegal drugs, and those that are prescribed. All of those would/could reduce someone's cognitive ability to make an informed decision according to your standards. Would you rather have a high school dropout vote ?.....or a College educated senior citizen with slightly reduced cognitive abilities, that has 3 times the life experience as the drop-out ? (or you for that matter) How about we test the integrity of all the voting machines before we test the old folks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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