Gainsbarre Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Be honest, your only intention in this thread is to bash Americans. This post entry pretty much proves that intention. It is up to you to prove that more restrictions equal less crime. Because the facts just don't back up your theory. It is well known that in some the American cities with the most restrictive gun laws on the books there are more gun crimes than places where you can legally carry a gun. Why? Because the problem is with criminals and not the guns themselves. I gave you statistics, official statistics, that showed how the violent crime rate went down after we implemented guns laws. But you completely ignored those statistics because you don't want to hear it. Your whole argument is "we gotta have guns to keep us safe from the bad guys". And as long as you continue to think that way, then you'll always live in violence. Maybe you enjoy that though. Guns probably make you feel powerful and somewhat invincible, which is how the gang leaders feel, so I think you're probably occupying the same sort of mental territory that they are. To say it's American bashing to make fun of you, it's very typical of someone like you. You think you are the epitome of America. You think you are America personified. And you try to make people feel un-patriotic or even traitorous if they question you or challenge you. Or from me, from another country, you wipe off my comments as just nothing more than "america bashing", you wouldn't even consider what is being said, to your own detriment really. Because refusing to recognise problems in your country is to ignore the cancerous tumour that will soon expand. Empires rise and fall, you know. We've had Rome, The Byzantine, The Vikings, The British Empire, The French, The Spanish, The Mongol, The Ottoman, Soviet.... How long do you think the American empire will last? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 More people are killed by irresponsible car owners driving drunk, a criminal act too by the way. Becuase of that fact do people develop an irrational fear of cars? You seem to be asserting and assuming that people who are against guns have an "irrational fear" of guns. Pray tell how did you come to this conclusion, Del? Also,.. regarding your car analogy: as a society we collectively recognize that cars are potentially very dangerous pieces of machinery and that operating a car is a serious responsibility; and as such we require people who wish to operate a car to get a license and to register their cars. Similarly, guns are potentially very dangerous pieces of machinery/equipment too and gun ownership/use is a serious responsibility, right? I'm sure you oppose gun registration, but do you oppose or support a licensure requirement for gun ownership? Fwiw, I don't fear guns*, I just want them far more strictly regulated. *unless one was being pointed at me; then hell yeah, I'd fear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIBLY Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 It goes further than that Hermit. You have to pass a stringent written & practical test before you are allowed to drive a car on your own. Which takes several months to accomplish. That's not the case with guns is it? I hate that thing about 'it's not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people' like if you walked into a room with a loaded gun on a table it would choose to kill you on it's own! I don't see how anybody can argue with the fact that these shootings happen because the shooters have easy access to guns. Take that away and there'd be far less innocent students killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 It goes further than that Hermit. You have to pass a stringent written & practical test before you are allowed to drive a car on your own. Which takes several months to accomplish. That's not the case with guns is it?Are you talking about America because than thats flat out wrong... When your 14 years 9 months old, you can take drivers training I. Then after a year of driving, you can go for Drivers Training II. Then, the day you're 16, you can get your license if you've passed you're driving test. Yes this takes a year, but it's extremely easy to do and damn near impossible to fail. Important to note that when you turn 18, you don't have to do all this stuff and you can simply take a driving test and get a license immediately. I hate that thing about 'it's not guns that kill people, it's people that kill people' like if you walked into a room with a loaded gun on a table it would choose to kill you on it's own! I don't see how anybody can argue with the fact that these shootings happen because the shooters have easy access to guns. Take that away and there'd be far less innocent students killed.Easy access? You think it's any harder to get guns off the black market? Come to my house and we'll visit the local drug dealer who could get you automatic rifles...at a high price, but automatics nonetheless If we didn't have mentally unstable civilians, there'd be far less innocents killed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 There should be gun laws. There is no reason that other than police that an everyday person should own gun.No reason. Not even for hunting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 There should be gun laws. There is no reason that other than police that an everyday person should own gun.No reason. Not even for hunting. In a perfect world, maybe. In today's world, that's simply the stupidest thing I've ever heard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Of course it is, look who said it. I personally am scared to death of guns and refuse to own one, but if someone else wants to own one for protection purposes, or hunting reasons.....we have the right to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Pfft edit :not worth my time to and fro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangani Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 And I wish somebody would explain to me what this so called "gun culture" is? I already explained it to you before. You have 300 million guns in the U.S.A. That's a gun culture. I know this term gets tossed around a lot in the liberal press, but what exactly is this 'gun culture' that exists in America that you don't have in Britian? In Britain, I don't know ANYBODY who has a gun and I don't know ANYBODY who knows ANYBODY who has a gun. I know very few Americans myself (less than 10), yet even among the small number of Americans I know, MOST of them know people who have guns or even have guns themselves. THAT is the difference between the two countries. In America a large proportion of the population knows somebody who has a gun. That is NOT the case in Britain. Guns just aren't that important to us. We don't have right to bare firearms. Guns aren't a big deal and aren't all that important to us here. I don't understand why you still get so upset and uppity at the FACT that America has a gun culture. I'm also 47 and I have been around guns my whole life. When I was a small boy I would go with my grandfather and hunt in the woods near his farm. As a teenager my buddies and I would hike up in the foothills and spend hours target shooting with all sorts of rifles, handguns and shotguns. There's your gun culture right there. Here in Britain, you wouldn't get people saying "As a teenager my buddies and I would hike up in the foothills and spend hours target shooting with all sorts of rifles, handguns and shotguns."" How you can come out with the above sentence and then ask what is so different in Britain that we don't have a gun culture is just bizarre!! wanna be drummer If we didn't have mentally unstable civilians, there'd be far less innocents killed Don't you mean if you didn't have mentally unstable civilians who have guns, there'd be far less innocents killed as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIBLY Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Are you talking about America because than thats flat out wrong... When your 14 years 9 months old, you can take drivers training I. Then after a year of driving, you can go for Drivers Training II. Then, the day you're 16, you can get your license if you've passed you're driving test. Yes this takes a year, but it's extremely easy to do and damn near impossible to fail. Important to note that when you turn 18, you don't have to do all this stuff and you can simply take a driving test and get a license immediately. Easy access? You think it's any harder to get guns off the black market? Come to my house and we'll visit the local drug dealer who could get you automatic rifles...at a high price, but automatics nonetheless If we didn't have mentally unstable civilians, there'd be far less innocents killed No - I'm English. You can,t even get behind the wheel until you're 17 and have passed a written test on the highway code. Then you have to have lessons to pass a driving test which is pretty comprehensive and is getting more dificult. Lots of people fail it at least once - I did first time. I don't speak from experience of how you Americans buy your guns but if it's relatively easy to get lawful guns it must be relatively easy for those same guns to appear on the black market. It seems sensible that less legal guns would mean less ilegal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 No - I'm English. You can,t even get behind the wheel until you're 17 and have passed a written test on the highway code. Then you have to have lessons to pass a driving test which is pretty comprehensive and is getting more dificult. Lots of people fail it at least once - I did first time. I don't speak from experience of how you Americans buy your guns but if it's relatively easy to get lawful guns it must be relatively easy for those same guns to appear on the black market. It seems sensible that less legal guns would mean less ilegal ones. "When Guns are Outlawed=Only Outlaws will have guns" http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp...mp;showAll=true God Bless America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIBLY Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Now that's just plain crazy and very scarey - although I see they aren't sold on line. Why the hell does a private citizen need a semi automatic rifle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Now that's just plain crazy and very scarey - although I see they aren't sold on line. Why the hell does a private citizen need a semi automatic rifle? They don't need a semi-automatic rifle at all, They just still have romantic notions that they're cowboys on the prairie or wherever the fuck they are, and they imagine themselves armed and walking around like Gary Cooper or John Wayne, threatening to shoot up anybody who done them wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Now that's just plain crazy and very scarey - although I see they aren't sold on line. Why the hell does a private citizen need a semi automatic rifle? Time to Get Real! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QGon3B0FJc...feature=related Actually My weapon of choice is a Mossberg pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spats Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 In a perfect world, maybe. In today's world, that's simply the stupidest thing I've ever heard Well, as long as everyday people have guns then gang shootings will continue and shooting sprees will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Bonnie~ Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Well, as long as everyday people have guns then gang shootings will continue and shooting sprees will continue. It's not "everyday people" doing the gang shootings, though..... Perhaps it's different out here in the Dakotas, but I know A LOT of people who own guns. Because they are hunters, and it's kinda hard to get a deer with a sling shot. I don't think the right to own guns should be taken away. Because how the hell are you supposed to defend yourself when Joe Burglar or Joe Rapist breaks into your home and they have a gun? What're you going to do?? Unless you're Chuck Norris, perhaps.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I don't think the right to own guns should be taken away. Because how the hell are you supposed to defend yourself when Joe Burglar or Joe Rapist breaks into your home and they have a gun? What're you going to do?? Unless you're Chuck Norris, perhaps.... Nobody in my country owns guns, how come we don't need them, but you do? The majority of Police Officers in England don't even carry guns while on duty, how come it's not a problem for them? You'd think Cops at least would need guns, so if guns are so necessary how can the British have a police force where most of the officers don't have guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mangani Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I don't think the right to own guns should be taken away. Because how the hell are you supposed to defend yourself when Joe Burglar or Joe Rapist breaks into your home and they have a gun? What're you going to do?? Unless you're Chuck Norris, perhaps.... That's the chicken and egg situation in America. I agree that people there should have the right to have guns if so many others already have them. With 300 million guns in the U.S, I'd want one too if I lived there. However, that's not the case with other countries. In England, we don't need a 'right' to have firearms and nobody cares anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joelmon Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Nobody in my country owns guns, how come we don't need them, but you do? The majority of Police Officers in England don't even carry guns while on duty, how come it's not a problem for them? You'd think Cops at least would need guns, so if guns are so necessary how can the British have a police force where most of the officers don't have guns? Do you guys not even have squirtguns ? I don't own a real gun, never have, but when i was a kid...EVERYONE had play guns...some that actually SHOT plastic bullets that could poke your eye out ! I'm glad we got to play with those before the overprotectionist society took over. And squirtguns !! YEEHAA !!! They were a rite of passage ! It is in the culture of America to be surrounded by guns from an early age. This is pretty much the last 'frontier' that was conquered and it WAS done at the end of a gunbarrel, right or wrong. Somehow as I aged into my teens...I lost interest in toy guns, even though I had a BB gun, and never became interested in hunting, target shooting or firearm protection. I've even be 'held-up' by a rifle toting robber..but that didn't even make me think I should carry a gun. We all react differently to the availability and desire for guns. I DO like the way a well crafted piece feels in my hand...but I doubt I'll ever own one. I've never felt the NEED or really wanted one. Yeah...we can't get rid of them now...there are just too many. No matter what kind of mandantory laws would go in effect..or whatever kind of 'recall' to turn in arms is proclaimed, the ones who claim it's their absolute RIGHT to bear arms...will NEVER give them up. But many of them are the same ones who'd condemn others, when laws are passed to 'turn them into outlaws'......and they proudly proclaim they'd 'go to their grave gripping onto their guns'......We're full of hypocracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 No - I'm English. You can,t even get behind the wheel until you're 17 and have passed a written test on the highway code. Then you have to have lessons to pass a driving test which is pretty comprehensive and is getting more dificult. Lots of people fail it at least once - I did first time. I don't speak from experience of how you Americans buy your guns but if it's relatively easy to get lawful guns it must be relatively easy for those same guns to appear on the black market. It seems sensible that less legal guns would mean less ilegal ones. That makes no sense...the firearms that black market dealers sell are not bought from legitimate American gun shops. They're imported. Marijuana is illegal and yet look how much is on the streets, and believe me dealers don't get from the "medical marijuana" caches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Nobody in my country owns guns, how come we don't need them, but you do? You don't have 300 million people in your country. You don't have the problems we already have. And you clearly don't understand that guns are here to stay. Gangs are armed, burglars are armed, every baddy in the country is already armed. Stopping future sales wouldn't do a whole lot of anything because most of the criminals in the country already have everything they need to pop a hole in the crown of your head. Stopping those sales would simply take away the right of the masses to protect themselves from those already armed. The majority of Police Officers in England don't even carry guns while on duty, how come it's not a problem for them? You'd think Cops at least would need guns, so if guns are so necessary how can the British have a police force where most of the officers don't have guns?Just because they aren't necessary in your country doesn't make it the same for other areas of the world. America has armed bad guys. How can the good people expect to protect themselves if they aren't allowed to even the playing field? Maybe we should take up shuriken throwing classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 You don't have 300 million people in your country. You don't have the problems we already have. And you clearly don't understand that guns are here to stay. Gangs are armed, burglars are armed, every baddy in the country is already armed. Stopping future sales wouldn't do a whole lot of anything because most of the criminals in the country already have everything they need to pop a hole in the crown of your head. Stopping those sales would simply take away the right of the masses to protect themselves from those already armed. Just because they aren't necessary in your country doesn't make it the same for other areas of the world. America has armed bad guys. How can the good people expect to protect themselves if they aren't allowed to even the playing field? Maybe we should take up shuriken throwing classes. Only an idiot says: "You don't have 300 million people in your country. You don't have the problems we already have." Population has nothing to do with it. We still have crime in this country, we still have violent crime, except the violent crimes aren't carried out with guns... Why did your bad guys have to be armed in the first place? Why do you have 'special problems' that other countries don't have? Maybe your Governments haven't been terribly good at managing your country... Maybe the "every man for himself" mentality that America was built on created the slums and the violence you now currently have? Maybe the horror of anything 'socialized' (because you stupidly thought it meant Communism) has also resulted in a country that's failed to look after a section of its people, leading to poverty and gangs and crime? Maybe America has made a lot of money out of its corporate achievements, but what else have you got to show for it? Hmm? You've got millions of people living in abject poverty. Millions of people with no access to any health care. You've got other people too scared to walk around without a gun. You may as well be living in South Africa or Colombia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 That makes no sense...the firearms that black market dealers sell are not bought from legitimate American gun shops. They're imported. As was pointed out *HERE*,.. the guns used in this recent college campus shooting rampage, as well as in the Virginia Tech shooting rampage, were not obtained on the black market; they were obtained legally.. over the internet. It's also legal, as you know, to sell guns out of the trunks of cars. I don't understand why non-criminal gun nuts are so opposed to stricter gun control laws. I don't buy the slippery slope argument that stricter gun control laws will lead to the eventual abolishment of the right to bear arms. I think it comes down to the fact that rabid gun fanatics (represented en masse by the NRA) are simply willing to tolerate any number of senseless gun-related deaths so long as they can still have their unfettered access to guns.. purchased over the internet.. out of car trunks.. etc. It's pure selfishness I think. It wasn't lost on me, btw, that Del,.. he who denies the existence of a gun culture in America ().. avoided answering the question put to him about a licensing requirment for gun ownership. What about you, wannabe,.. do you support or oppose a licensing requirement for gun ownership? Obviously licensing wouldn't prevent the occasional (or not-so-occasional as it seems to be these days) nutcase from going on a shooting rampage, but that doesn't mean licensure for gun ownership shouldn't be an integral part of responsible firearm policy in America, should it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 avoided answering the question put to him about a licensing requirment for gun ownership. What about you, wannabe,.. do you support or oppose a licensing requirement for gun ownership? Obviously licensing wouldn't prevent the occasional (or not-so-occasional as it seems to be these days) nutcase from going on a shooting rampage, but that doesn't mean licensure for gun ownership shouldn't be an integral part of responsible firearm policy in America, should it? Holy fucking shit, Americans don't even require a licence to buy a gun??? Fucking hell, no wonder you guys have so much gun violence. Holy shit, that's completely unbelievable. So any bastard can just walk into a shop and buy a gun? I think that's the most insane thing I've ever heard. In Australia you can't even work with kids unless you've got a licence. You have to have criminal history and personal background checks. If anybody can just walk into a shop and buy a dangerous weapon, man, you're just asking for trouble. You gun lovers have really gotta start thinking of other people instead of just yourself all the time. At least introduce gun licensing... And anyway if you're so righteous, then having a gun licence shouldn't be a problem, should it? I mean if you're the respectable safe people you claim you are, then what problem would there be obtaining a gun licence? And if the nice suburban folk just want a gun to keep them safe from the bad guy, then it should be perfectly fine for people who have no criminal record to obtain a gun licence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Holy fucking shit, Americans don't even require a licence to buy a gun??? Fucking hell, no wonder you guys have so much gun violence. Holy shit, that's completely unbelievable. So any bastard can just walk into a shop and buy a gun? I think that's the most insane thing I've ever heard. In Australia you can't even work with kids unless you've got a licence. You have to have criminal history and personal background checks. If anybody can just walk into a shop and buy a dangerous weapon, man, you're just asking for trouble. You gun lovers have really gotta start thinking of other people instead of just yourself all the time. At least introduce gun licensing... And anyway if you're so righteous, then having a gun licence shouldn't be a problem, should it? I mean if you're the respectable safe people you claim you are, then what problem would there be obtaining a gun licence? And if the nice suburban folk just want a gun to keep them safe from the bad guy, then it should be perfectly fine for people who have no criminal record to obtain a gun licence... There are licensing laws already Here ya go slappy http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#apply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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