5 Dead in College Shooting...

[Hermit]

There are licensing laws already

Here ya go slappy

http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html#apply

obtaining a permit is simply a matter of filling out an application form and paying a fee.

that misses the point of licensure, which would would require education, training and testing.

..slappy.

[Electrophile]

For someone who knows nothing about America, our laws or our way of life......you seem to post like you do.

[Dzldoc]

obtaining a permit is simply a matter of filling out an application form and paying a fee.

that misses the point of licensure, which would would require education, training and testing.

..slappy.

Well slappy it's obvious you didn't Read the whole page because there IS a safety training course,finger printing and FBI back ground check as well as medical back ground check REQUIRED BEFORE you get the permit.

I know because "I" went through it

[the queen without a king]

What gets me upset in these situations is the media/news.

I'm not suggesting they not report such horrible stories, (cause that's never going to happen) but what I am suggesting is perhaps less coverage. Something like this happens and for 3 days straight that's all we see or hear about. The picture of the killer flashed every few seconds accomplishing the killer's mission of becoming somewhat of a celebrity for the terrible act they've commited....or maybe painting them the victim because of how society's injustices drove them to do it....it's always the same crock of shit.

I think back to the Columbine shooting....it seems like after that, these 'massacres' have become more frequent.

The excessive coverage of these school shootings need to be limited. And it's not just the weapons used that we should be worried about. Maybe in places where guns aren't as accessible some troubled kid is going to use a knife. All it takes is a troubled, lost kid seeing the impact these school shootings have and perhaps this may encourage them into becoming a martyr themselves as a solution.

[Hermit]

Well slappy it's obvious you didn't Read the whole page because there IS a safety training course,finger printing and FBI back ground check as well as medical back ground check REQUIRED BEFORE you get the permit.

I know because "I" went through it

You're right slappy, I didn't scroll all the way down the

page.. and as such didn't see the training requirement.

I'm glad to see that Louisiana requires training as part of

the permit process; that's certainly not the case in my state.

When I applied for a concealed weapons permit many years ago (I've never owned a gun, btw), a background check, fingerprinting, medical history (self-reported, non-verified), ID, and payment of a fee were all required, but there was absolutely no training requirement.

I think we should acknowledge the difference between obtaining a permit and obtaining a license. As you peruse the info further down in this post you'll see that the distinction is not merely one of semantics.. at least not as far as WA state gun laws go. In WA state people can buy and use firearms without having a permit; a permit is required when someone wants to carry a concealed weapon. There is no licensing requirement.

In King County, WA state..

When you apply the following is required:

•You must be 21 years of age or older.

•You must be a citizen of the United States

•You must live in King County

•You need to have picture ID

•There is a fee of $55.25.

[source: www.metrokc.gov/sheriff/services/gun_permits/]

"Washington is one of the original "shall issue" states, in which a concealed pistol permit must be issued to any applicant, age 21 or older, who meets certain requirements, including no felony convictions, no misdemeanor domestic violence convictions, and no outstanding warrants." [source: wikiped.]

State Requirements

Rifles and Shotguns:

Permit to purchase rifles and shotguns? No.

Registration of rifles and shotguns? No.

Licensing of owners of rifles and shotguns? No.

Permit to carry rifles and shotguns? No.

Handguns:

Permit to purchase handgun? No.

Registration of handguns? No.

Licensing of owners of handguns? No.

Permit to carry handguns? Yes.

[source: about.com]

[kirchzep27]

Back in the 90s there were alot of record conventions before the crackdown on bootlegs, havent seen them advertised in years. So, why is there still gun conventions all across the country, with this obvious school shooting problem.

Maybe there will be a law passed on military weapons/hand guns soon, or after the next trajedy.

[Dzldoc]

You're right slappy, I didn't scroll all the way down the

page.. and as such didn't see the training requirement.

I'm glad to see that Louisiana requires training as part of

the permit process; that's certainly not the case in my state.

When I applied for a concealed weapons permit many years ago (I've never owned a gun, btw), a background check, fingerprinting, medical history (self-reported, non-verified), ID, and payment of a fee were all required, but there was absolutely no training requirement.

I believe one of the reasons for the training requirement, is the piss poor public education systems that have been systematical robbed by local leadership.

Denying our children a basic education and the sheer lack of everyday common sense in our society. The Dumbing down of America if you will.

One thing for sure is I'm greatful for the freedom to freely debate issues like this.

That's what makes America great.

There's no way to stop someone with criminal intent from harming you if your caught off gaurd and I've never drawn my weapon on anyone.

But it's comforting to know that if someone enters my home uninvited with the intent of harming my family, if he gets out it won't be in the same condition he came in with.

Lawful gun owners are responsible for securing their weapons it's not a damn cell phone.

[spats]

It's not "everyday people" doing the gang shootings, though.....

Perhaps it's different out here in the Dakotas, but I know A LOT of people who own guns. Because they are hunters, and it's kinda hard to get a deer with a sling shot.

I don't think the right to own guns should be taken away. Because how the hell are you supposed to defend yourself when Joe Burglar or Joe Rapist breaks into your home and they have a gun? What're you going to do?? Unless you're Chuck Norris, perhaps....

But if they didn't have a gun then you wouldn't have to worry about it. Get rid of guns.

I don't agree with hunting. Unless a person is starving to death they should not be killing innocent animals.

[Electrophile]

Rapists and burglars don't always use guns. Some use knives, bricks, lead pipes, baseball bats.....you want to outlaw all those things too? What kind of hippie utopia are you living in?

[spats]

Rapists and burglars don't always use guns. Some use knives, bricks, lead pipes, baseball bats.....you want to outlaw all those things too? What kind of hippie utopia are you living in?

well there is a major problem with gun related deaths. and it's the only way to end it or at least cut it down. If it saves just a couple lives then it is worth it.

[Electrophile]

If you take away one weapon, they'll use another. That's how criminals work. If they want to do wrong, they'll do it, even if they have to get creative. Hell, you could beat someone to death with a frozen pot roast.....want to make those illegal? As long as there are things on this planet that can kill, criminals will use them. Outlawing guns will not stop crime.

There's no way to patently outlaw guns. Not as long as we have a 2nd amendment right to use them. Unless you're advocating changing the Bill of Rights.

[Dzldoc]

But if they didn't have a gun then you wouldn't have to worry about it. Get rid of guns.

I don't agree with hunting. Unless a person is starving to death they should not be killing innocent animals.

Yea that's like saying get rid of termites and I won't have to treat my house.

Good! Don't hunt, I eat what I hunt and it's well regulated and you have to have a license.

What I don't eat I give to Little Sisters of the poor. They've never told me I was going to hell.

Are you a vegan?

This is my last post here it's gone way off base

[Hermit]

If you take away one weapon, they'll use another. That's how criminals work. If they want to do wrong, they'll do it, even if they have to get creative. Hell, you could beat someone to death with a frozen pot roast.....want to make those illegal? As long as there are things on this planet that can kill, criminals will use them. Outlawing guns will not stop crime.

You gotta admit though.. it would be considerably harder to kill a dozen people in a

college campus rampage using a frozen pot roast than it would be using firearms.

[Hermit]

This is my last post here it's gone way off base

Yeah, sure.

Thats what they all say.

You'll be back.

..you hell-bound killer, you.

[Gainsbarre]

Look, America is just a Gun Culture country. To take away guns would be to take away a quintessential aspect of American culture. And what's the point of being into guns if you can't use them? Gun lovers aren't interested in guns laws, because the less bad guys with guns means less opportunity for the gun lovers to use theirs.

America can't shake that Cowboy and Indian mentality.

[Del Zeppnile]

Your whole argument is "we gotta have guns to keep us safe from the bad guys". And as long as you continue to think that way, then you'll always live in violence. Maybe you enjoy that though.

I don't need to make an arguement for gun ownership because it is already a constitutional right. Being that you come from a pion nation that was basically bitch slapped by the British royals for hundreds of year... I don't expect you to understand the concept of individual rights. Many of which were not only won, but have been guaranteed by the very tools you are wetting your pants over now.

Guns probably make you feel powerful and somewhat invincible, which is how the gang leaders feel, so I think you're probably occupying the same sort of mental territory that they are.

Do you know a lot of gang members or something? Ever been to Compton or East Los Angeles? I mean since you seem to be an expert on American street gangs why don't you tell us about it?

Hell, I'd like to take you to a few of those neighborhoods and watch the girls kick your ass.

And for that matter you really don't know me either do you peckerhead? My guns don't make me feel 'invincible' or any other way. In fact, I probably don't even think about them half as much as you obviously do. To me they are no different than any number of tools or personal items that I own. But that's the way it is in a free society.

regarding your car analogy: as a society we collectively recognize that cars are potentially very dangerous pieces of machinery and that operating a car is a serious responsibility; and as such we require people who wish to operate a car to get a license and to register their cars. Similarly, guns are potentially very dangerous pieces of machinery/equipment too and gun ownership/use is a serious responsibility, right? I'm sure you oppose gun registration, but do you oppose or support a licensure requirement for gun ownership?

Of course it is a serious responsibilty. But is also one that the vast majority legal gun owners have demonstrated that is not a problem. But what made you think I was against gun registration? Most of my guns are registered... although I don't see the need for licencing unless you are lucky enought to live in a state that allows you to carry a concealed firearm.

In Britain, I don't know ANYBODY who has a gun and I don't know ANYBODY who knows ANYBODY who has a gun.

Nobody has hunting rifles or shotguns? I find that hard to believe because I know several Brits who hunt.

THAT is the difference between the two countries. In America a large proportion of the population knows somebody who has a gun. That is NOT the case in Britain. Guns just aren't that important to us. We don't have right to bare firearms. Guns aren't a big deal and aren't all that important to us here.

And that is the way your ruling elite always wanted it. They learned their lesson after the American Revolution.

Look, America is just a Gun Culture country. To take away guns would be to take away a quintessential aspect of American culture. And what's the point of being into guns if you can't use them? Gun lovers aren't interested in guns laws, because the less bad guys with guns means less opportunity for the gun lovers to use theirs.

America can't shake that Cowboy and Indian mentality.

You watch too many movies.

[Mangani]

Nobody has hunting rifles or shotguns? I find that hard to believe because I know several Brits who hunt.

I didn't say nobody has rifles or shotguns. I said nobody I personally know or have known. Obviously people like farmers and pheasant hunters etc etc do have guns. But they are very very much in a tiny minority and the majority of the population doesn't actually know any of them or ever come into contact with any of them.

You talked about being a teenager and going up into the hills to shoot with all kinds of guns. Here, people would talk about being a teenager and going to the park to kick a football around. Or, to bring it up to date, a person would talk about being a teenager and hanging around bus stop wearing a hoody and throwing a beer can at an innocent passer by.

And that is the way your ruling elite always wanted it. They learned their lesson after the American Revolution.

'Ruling elite'? An elected government and elected politicians rule the country now. Sorry to have to tell you but royals and wealthy landlords haven't been the 'ruling elite' for donkey's years.

Being that you come from a pion nation that was basically bitch slapped by the British royals for hundreds of year... I don't expect you to understand the concept of individual rights.

Hang on, Australia is/was a bitch slapped country with no individual rights? If that was the case then surely they would have had a revolution and stood up for themselves?? Yet there they were, the average Australian was happy to stand by Britain in times of crises....and they DID. Why, even relatively recently the Aussies turned down the chance to become a republic. Not the mark of a 'bitch slapped pion nation'. Next thing you'll be telling me Canada was a bitch slapped country oppressed by the nasty Brits for hundreds of years with no rights or freedoms.

Now, I don't agree with our Aussie friend's analysis of America and Americans but I'm baffled at your insistence that only Americans know the concept of individual rights just because they are allowed to own guns. As I pointed out previously, you aren't allowed the right to enjoy a cold beer on a hot summer's day while strolling down the road so it's swings and roundabouts fella. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

[wanna be drummer]

As was pointed out *HERE*,.. the guns used in this recent college campus shooting rampage, as well as in the Virginia Tech shooting rampage, were not obtained on the black market; they were obtained legally.. over the internet. It's also legal, as you know, to sell guns out of the trunks of cars.

Of course they weren't bought illegally. Buying illegally takes more time, especially if you don't have contacts available, but it is simple enough. Those guys had mental problems and should've had to take a course in firearms training or simply not been allowed guns because of their stability. However, for the majority of America, so long as your in good mental health and don't have a history of violence or crime in your life, why should you be denied protection from those who would cause you or your family harm?

I don't understand why non-criminal gun nuts are so opposed to stricter gun control laws. I don't buy the slippery slope argument that stricter gun control laws will lead to the eventual abolishment of the right to bear arms. I think it comes down to the fact that rabid gun fanatics (represented en masse by the NRA) are simply willing to tolerate any number of senseless gun-related deaths so long as they can still have their unfettered access to guns.. purchased over the internet.. out of car trunks.. etc. It's pure selfishness I think.

I think so to actually. They want to be able to purchase those fully automatic weapons themselves.

It wasn't lost on me, btw, that Del,.. he who denies the existence of a gun culture in America ().. avoided answering the question put to him about a licensing requirment for gun ownership. What about you, wannabe,.. do you support or oppose a licensing requirement for gun ownership? Obviously licensing wouldn't prevent the occasional (or not-so-occasional as it seems to be these days) nutcase from going on a shooting rampage, but that doesn't mean licensure for gun ownership shouldn't be an integral part of responsible firearm policy in America, should it?

Licenses should be put in place definitely. Not only would it help police officers to catch murderers (being able to find someone with the exact gun used in the case or something), but it would help cut down on giving firearms to mentally unstable civilians. More licenses would help cut down on rampages, but I highly doubt that any kind of gun restriction would

[wanna be drummer]

Look, America is just a Gun Culture country. To take away guns would be to take away a quintessential aspect of American culture. And what's the point of being into guns if you can't use them? Gun lovers aren't interested in guns laws, because the less bad guys with guns means less opportunity for the gun lovers to use theirs.

America can't shake that Cowboy and Indian mentality.

Let me start by repeating Electrophile: For someone who doesn't live in America or (apparently) know a whole hell of a lot about America, you sure post like you do. I have an idea, how about you keep your mouth shut before you post these ridiculous generalizations about a country you doon't live in.

Secondly, you're "Gun lovers aren't interested in guns laws, because the less bad guys with guns means less opportunity for the gun lovers to use theirs." argument is retarded. Nobody really wants to have to pull out a weapon to protect their very life. Gun lovers here want them for protection or hunting. Simple as that. We're not John Wayne gung-ho like you, for some odd reason, think we are. The majority of America (most of whom Mangani is familiar with ) is as regular as you Australians. We're not looking or asking for trouble, but a way in which to protect ourselves fropm those who would harm us.

[~Bonnie~]

some fun weekend reading

[Gainsbarre]

I don't need to make an arguement for gun ownership because it is already a constitutional right. Being that you come from a pion nation that was basically bitch slapped by the British royals for hundreds of year... I don't expect you to understand the concept of individual rights. Many of which were not only won, but have been guaranteed by the very tools you are wetting your pants over now.

The only reason you have that as a constitutional right is because your founding fathers wanted to make sure your country had an armed militia of civillian ready to fight whoever.

And, AGAIN, what you have failed to appreciate in your arrogance, is that we have all the individual rights as you do, and full independence as a country, except we didn't need guns to achieve them. We got it all through peace.

You see we kept what we liked of our British Colonial History, which meant keeping the Westminster System of Government under a constitutional Monarchy, which is far and away the best system of government in the world.

You Americans devised some crazy method of government which doesn't really work as we saw in the 2000 election.

[Mangani]

The majority of America (most of whom Mangani is familiar with ) is as regular as you Australians.

No when it comes to guns. A large proportion of Americans are familiar with, own and use guns. A large proportion of Americans at least know somebody who has a gun.

That is completely different in Australia (and England).

This, and the other thread, has PROVEN it. Very few Americans have posted in either thread but what was blatantly obvious in both thread is that a large proportion of the American members who did post either have guns themselves, have experience of guns, or they know people who have guns.

If you are suggesting that proportion wise the amount of Americans who are unfamiliar with guns and don't know anybody who has a gun is about the same as Australia and Britain then I'm afraid you are way off beam.

Now, I'm not saying you guys are wrong and have to stamp it out. You can't do much about it as you are well beyond the turning point. Just pointing out your gun culture unfortunately makes the kind of massacres this thread opened with inevitable. When so many people can easily get hold of and have access to these weapons then these kind of incidents are just going to keep on and on happening. A fruitcake with a gun is a lot more dangerous than just a fruitcake.

[Florian]

i'm really chocked about people who do this.........but why did they do this??? i don't know........

i really feel sorry for the who do this and for the people who died..... i hope we never have to see thoose scenes ever again......

[Del Zeppnile]

I didn't say nobody has rifles or shotguns. I said nobody I personally know or have known. Obviously people like farmers and pheasant hunters etc etc do have guns. But they are very very much in a tiny minority and the majority of the population doesn't actually know any of them or ever come into contact with any of them.

My point was that despite your limited exposure to hunters, farmers and ex-military; the UK has a "gun culture." It's just that the British experience is much different than that of the United States. While the Americans were fighting to form a nation on the vast expanse of our own continent. The British were forming an empire on the vast expanses of the globe. Obviously guns were part of that experience... and in fact the British have always been made some of the finest quality guns ever. Just talk to any retired British soldier and they will tell you all about those guns. And what about the long history of big game hunting with the British in Africa and Asia? I honestly don't buy that just because YOU are not exposed to those people, that they don't exist. I believe the same perspective might apply to some Americans who have lived their entire lives in the big cities... not having been exposed to hunting and the outdoor lifestlye.

You talked about being a teenager and going up into the hills to shoot with all kinds of guns. Here, people would talk about being a teenager and going to the park to kick a football around. Or, to bring it up to date, a person would talk about being a teenager and hanging around bus stop wearing a hoody and throwing a beer can at an innocent passer by.

We 'throw' our footballs around here in America. But that being said, I also believe that the more exposure a young person has to guns, the less likely that they are going to be an object for abuse or misuse. For Americans living in rural areas or who are avid outdoorsmen, the familiarity with guns is no big deal.

'Ruling elite'? An elected government and elected politicians rule the country now. Sorry to have to tell you but royals and wealthy landlords haven't been the 'ruling elite' for donkey's years.

The system of loyalists worked very well for the British crown. Favoritism in exchange for loyalty kept a small minority in positions of power at the expense of the individual freedom for the majority. Northern Ireland stands as a good example of that system. We here in America were able to defeat that system and the armies sent to enforce it.

And we did it with our guns.

Hang on, Australia is/was a bitch slapped country with no individual rights? If that was the case then surely they would have had a revolution and stood up for themselves?? Yet there they were, the average Australian was happy to stand by Britain in times of crises....and they DID. Why, even relatively recently the Aussies turned down the chance to become a republic. Not the mark of a 'bitch slapped pion nation'. Next thing you'll be telling me Canada was a bitch slapped country oppressed by the nasty Brits for hundreds of years with no rights or freedoms.

Don't expect to impress an American with the history of Britain's dominance over her empire. We personaly found it to be intolerable and offensive to our very nature. Which is probably why we view Canadians and Austrailians as being 'weak sisters' to some extent. If Canadians and Aussiesareokay with bowing down to Britian that is there problem.

Now, I don't agree with our Aussie friend's analysis of America and Americans but I'm baffled at your insistence that only Americans know the concept of individual rights just because they are allowed to own guns. As I pointed out previously, you aren't allowed the right to enjoy a cold beer on a hot summer's day while strolling down the road so it's swings and roundabouts fella. Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

In your country how would you protect your individual rights against a goverment who might choose to over step it's mandate? Without the right to your own arms you will always be at the whims of your government.

The only reason you have that as a constitutional right is because your founding fathers wanted to make sure your country had an armed militia of civillian ready to fight whoever.

Our constitution guarantees the rights of 'individuals' to have guns. Not just the states or the states's militias.

And, AGAIN, what you have failed to appreciate in your arrogance, is that we have all the individual rights as you do, and full independence as a country, except we didn't need guns to achieve them. We got it all through peace.

How can you say you have all the individual righs as we do if aren't trusted to have guns?

You see we kept what we liked of our British Colonial History, which meant keeping the Westminster System of Government under a constitutional Monarchy, which is far and away the best system of government in the world.

You Americans devised some crazy method of government which doesn't really work as we saw in the 2000 election.

What didn't work?

[wanna be drummer]

The only reason you have that as a constitutional right is because your founding fathers wanted to make sure your country had an armed militia of civillian ready to fight whoever.

And, AGAIN, what you have failed to appreciate in your arrogance, is that we have all the individual rights as you do, and full independence as a country, except we didn't need guns to achieve them. We got it all through peace.

You see we kept what we liked of our British Colonial History, which meant keeping the Westminster System of Government under a constitutional Monarchy, which is far and away the best system of government in the world.

You Americans devised some crazy method of government which doesn't really work as we saw in the 2000 election.

Says who?? There are hundreds of different governments out there bud, how in the hell can you make a huge generalization like that?

Oh wait...you've been doing it throughout this whole thread. Guess I shouldn't be surprised