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Jimmy vs. Eddie


Tadpole in a Jar
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What's up with these "vs" threads? Hendrix, Page, Van Halen are all incredible in their own right. When you get as good as these guys were/are, it's just a matter of opinion, and that's it.

there ya go. well said. fun to talk about but this could never be a serious conversation. i've had a great time EVERY time i've seen page, van halen, clapton, beck (jeff), srv, blackmore, vai, satch, buddy guy, hubert sumlin, the edge, b.b., towshend, zappa, prince, gilmore, blah, blah, blah. sometimes they have played better than others and sometimes i have been moved to tears.

the first time i saw TSRTS, i thought jimmy page was the fastest thing ever, and zeroing in on that made me miss a ton of other great stuff he did in the very same film. the passion.....i must say: jimmy page is the most passionate guitar player i have ever seen.

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Bullshit. Tapping and wang bars proved to be an evolutionary dead end in music, but the innovations of Page still make up the backbone of hard rock. So that refutes the innovation claim. EVH may have speed and cleanliness to his playing, but in terms of improvisational composition Page is better than EVH. Dexterity, you might have a point, but imagination around the guitar and the guitar solo itself? Bullshit. Once you've heard Eruption you've heard all of Eddie's tricks really. Compared to Page, EVH has a grey withered husk of an imagination.

When Franz List and Chopin played together, List had more complex technique, but Chopin moved the audience to tears. Emotion and idiosyncracy count at least as much as speed, and they are why Page will ALWAYS trump EVH. Shred rock guitarists with no grounding in roots music went out with acid washed jeans; but Page never goes out.

What's more, with a single well placed gig in London, Page's one concert reunion upstaged EVH's whole reunion tour. What does that tell you?

I always love this argument. Comes up by every newbie on a Zeppelin board who heard that comment by EVH. Same old opinions, Page could do this, Eddie could do that. Truth be told they all looked to the past and then developed techniques for themselves to be used within their own idiom.

The real reason Zeppelin fans don't like VH is simply because they were the pretenders to the throne of Zeppelin in the US, punk never even entered into the equation back in 1977. It was the end of an era.

Personally I say thank God for EVH, he dragged rock guitar playing kicking and screaming out of the dead end that was the blues. It's hardly his fault we got RATT, Warrant, and the rest is it?

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Bullshit. Tapping and wang bars proved to be an evolutionary dead end in music, but the innovations of Page still make up the backbone of hard rock. So that refutes the innovation claim.

Not really. Just because it isn't used anymore by today's crappy bands doesn't mean it wasn't an innovation. The steam engine was still an innovation even if we moved to other kinds of power.

Dexterity, you might have a point, but imagination around the guitar and the guitar solo itself? Bullshit. Once you've heard Eruption you've heard all of Eddie's tricks really.

Aw, c'mon the "Secrets" solo is really melodic. Most of them are, even if some of the same "tricks" are employed in each one. As I say, you gotta check out his earliest years.

Shred rock guitarists with no grounding in roots music went out with acid washed jeans; but Page never goes out.

It's all fashion. Bands like Dragonforce (not that I like them) and the G3 tours show Eddie's star shines on. Also, give me five Ratts over one White Stripes any day.

What's more, with a single well placed gig in London, Page's one concert reunion upstaged EVH's whole reunion tour. What does that tell you?

It tells me that with one well placed gig in London, Page's one concert reunion upstaged EVH's whole reunion tour. No doubt about that one.

By the way my post count might be low, but I've been on Sam's boards since the late `90's, and have been a mega Led Zeppelin fan for 20 years now. Or is it 21?

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Not really. Just because it isn't used anymore by today's crappy bands doesn't mean it wasn't an innovation. The steam engine was still an innovation even if we moved to other kinds of power.

Aw, c'mon the "Secrets" solo is really melodic. Most of them are, even if some of the same "tricks" are employed in each one. As I say, you gotta check out his earliest years.

It's all fashion. Bands like Dragonforce (not that I like them) and the G3 tours show Eddie's star shines on. Also, give me five Ratts over one White Stripes any day.

It tells me that with one well placed gig in London, Page's one concert reunion upstaged EVH's whole reunion tour. No doubt about that one.

By the way my post count might be low, but I've been on Sam's boards since the late `90's, and have been a mega Led Zeppelin fan for 20 years now. Or is it 21?

And if you were a real bitch you could point out that in 2008 EVH can still play like he did in 1977. Unfortunately so can Page. :D

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The real reason Zeppelin fans don't like VH is simply because they were the pretenders to the throne of Zeppelin in the US, punk never even entered into the equation back in 1977. It was the end of an era.

Personally I say thank God for EVH, he dragged rock guitar playing kicking and screaming out of the dead end that was the blues. It's hardly his fault we got RATT, Warrant, and the rest is it?

i love vh and i'm a zeppelin zonko.

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jimmy for sure. i never thought "technical" playing was all that impressive. anyone can learn to play really fast if they try hard enough. all these guitar players that i hear being labeled "technical" players really seem to do is play really fast and loud, where's the sense in that? wow, you can play really fast, can you play something melodic? something that makes sense? something that sounds different than every solo you've ever done? technical can be impressive and all, but without emotion it's just a kid with a guitar who thinks he can play music.

Nicely said..

Ahhh, the age old argument, I've been defending Mr Page on this for as long as I can remember. It's very easy really. EVH plays a lot of notes really fast, JP plays music, simple as that.

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The only thing I hate worse than tapping is 'horse noises', or wait,

make that 'elephant noises', or wait, playing the guitar with a powerdrill...now thats something to be despised.

Other than that bullshit, EV is a great fucking guitarist, but he could never touch people with his music in the manner that Jimmy Page has, not even close.

Edited by snapper
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Just wanted to let everyone know that Eddy and Jimmy were not the ones who invented tapping. I've seen old footage of Les Paul who was tapping the strings......way before Eddy and Jimmy were born.

Page never claimed to nor has he been attributed with inventing tapping. The Heartbreaker solo, which inspired EVH to finger tap, was played with traditional hammer-on pull-off techniques of the left hand.

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Not really. Just because it isn't used anymore by today's crappy bands doesn't mean it wasn't an innovation. The steam engine was still an innovation even if we moved to other kinds of power.

That's all well and good, but we aren't talking about whether or not EVH was innovative, but if he was more innovative than Page. And I still say BULLSHIT to that idea.

Aw, c'mon the "Secrets" solo is really melodic. Most of them are, even if some of the same "tricks" are employed in each one. As I say, you gotta check out his earliest years.

I was a Van Halen fan, my favorite album of theirs is Van Halen II. So I know the earlier years. But quoting "Secrets" at me doesn't change the fact that EVH works in an extremely limited palette, and Page works from one of the widest palettes of any rock musician EVER.

It's all fashion. Bands like Dragonforce (not that I like them) and the G3 tours show Eddie's star shines on. Also, give me five Ratts over one White Stripes any day.

God, we differ on that. If you said I could save either Jack White OR every hair metal guitarist on the planet from certain death . . . let's just say the bottom would fall out of the spandex and hairspray industries. Eddie's solos sound like Page's, but Jack's RIFFS sound like Page's- and in the end, that's better.

It tells me that with one well placed gig in London, Page's one concert reunion upstaged EVH's whole reunion tour. No doubt about that one.

How much or little of the credit for that do you give his guitar playing? What can I say. To me, Jimmy is Led Zeppelin, and EVH is Van Halen. (not that Plant and Roth aren't great, they are. But somebody's got to be the man, and in these cases IMHO the guitarist is the man.) Therefore, if you like LZ better than VH, you like Jimmy better than you like Eddie.

By the way my post count might be low, but I've been on Sam's boards since the late `90's, and have been a mega Led Zeppelin fan for 20 years now. Or is it 21?

Well, good. But if you think EVH is a better guitarist, all I can say is . . . ding dong, you're wrong!

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most certainly not. and I don't see a lovely stream of high quality official live releases either.

though i don't recall Trey ever whipping out the old violin bow either, so Jimmy's got that on him at least ;)

:D just imagine a guyute with trey on the bow...now imagine bonham on a vacuum

it's also too bad jimmy never thought of an 'it' festival....or even setlist opener pie graphs

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jimmy for sure. i never thought "technical" playing was all that impressive. anyone can learn to play really fast if they try hard enough. all these guitar players that i hear being labeled "technical" players really seem to do is play really fast and loud, where's the sense in that? wow, you can play really fast, can you play something melodic? something that makes sense? something that sounds different than every solo you've ever done? technical can be impressive and all, but without emotion it's just a kid with a guitar who thinks he can play music.

Yeah, I agree completely. There's thousands of guitar shredders and the like. People who can play very fast and technical. That is not a great guitarist. That is just a competent player. It is one thing to shred and play fast, but it's another thing to create great tunes, riffs, melodies and solos. It's also another thing to play creatively and with feeling. This is why I love Tony Iommi of Black Sabbath. Now for sure, he can play loud and fast and do his share of shredding. But I love the feeling he puts into his solos.

I heard an interview with him, and he said how there are many guitarists that can match him for technical proficiency, but have no feeling in their playing. And that is what a really truly great guitarist is about.

You maybe can shred like every other wannabe, but can you come up with imaginative and creative solos filled with feeling and emotion such as Zeppelin's, "Stairway to Heaven", Purples's , "Child in Time", Sabbath's "War Pigs", Hendrix's "All Along the Watchtower" or even Lynryd Skynryd's, "Free Bird".

All those songs I've quoted have 2 things in common. They are not particularly tecnical difficult pieces to play. But they are solos you can listen to again and again without getting sick of. They are the equivalent of good poetry, filled with imagination and creativity.

And that is something shredders can't do.

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They aren't even in the same league.

Jimmy is far more talented then Eddie on so many levels.

Take a look at the longevity of their music.

Take a look at record sales.

Take a look at concert records.

How many VH songs are timeless?

How many LZ songs are timeless?

I'm sorry. I like Eddie, and appreciate his ability, but on Jimmy's worst day, he outplays Eddie.

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Jimmy Page shifted gears after 1973, seemed to have took steps at getting away from a guitar virtuoso, with the bow and the solos. His song construction and riffs inspired alot more good songs from bands, where eddie van halen seems to have inspired alot of guitar virtuoso players.

I prefer jimmy 73/or earlier, to the best from eddie vh, or any type of eddie van halen inspired guitarists. Some of the fast playing gets to be like listening to fusion jazz or something, just too fast and confusing sounding.

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I always love this argument. Comes up by every newbie on a Zeppelin board who heard that comment by EVH. Same old opinions, Page could do this, Eddie could do that. Truth be told they all looked to the past and then developed techniques for themselves to be used within their own idiom.

The real reason Zeppelin fans don't like VH is simply because they were the pretenders to the throne of Zeppelin in the US, punk never even entered into the equation back in 1977. It was the end of an era.

Personally I say thank God for EVH, he dragged rock guitar playing kicking and screaming out of the dead end that was the blues. It's hardly his fault we got RATT, Warrant, and the rest is it?

Don't blame the blues dude. Without the blues, rock is nothing. Everytime Page bends a note I suggest you thank B.b. King and T-Bone Walker.

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The only thing I hate worse than tapping is 'horse noises', or wait,

make that 'elephant noises', or wait, playing the guitar with a powerdrill...now thats something to be despised.

Other than that bullshit, EV is a great fucking guitarist, but he could never touch people with his music in the manner that Jimmy Page has, not even close.

I think that's more because of what Zeppelin set out to accomplish and what Van Halen set out to accomplish. Van Halen is a party band, plain and simple, same with ZZ Top, one of my other absolutely all-time favorite bands. Zeppelin was always more serious when it came to music. So, if we're talking about "touching people" if you're saying, "HEY! LET'S HAVE A GOOD TIME!" that's going to not be considered as "touching" as being more serious.

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They aren't even in the same league.

Jimmy is far more talented then Eddie on so many levels.

Take a look at the longevity of their music.

Take a look at record sales.

Take a look at concert records.

How many VH songs are timeless?

How many LZ songs are timeless?

I'm sorry. I like Eddie, and appreciate his ability, but on Jimmy's worst day, he outplays Eddie.

Both have sold a lot of records, both have had a lot of classic songs, and a lot of people still worship at the altar of both guitarists. Both are great. Again, it's just whichever you prefer. Me, I prefer Zeppelin over Van Halen, just do, can't explain it. But does that mean I don't spin some Van Halen stuff often? Far from it. Love those guys.

Great music is great music.

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What's to argue about?

This:

probably the biggest innovator since Hendrix.

I'm sorry, I just don't agree. I was once a fan of the man, and now I'm not. Guitar playing should say something beyond 'look what I can do', and I don't really hear EVH doing that.

And again, his "innovation" was an evolutionary dead end. No one taps anymore, no one uses the wang bar anymore.

And can I just say . . . thank GOD. :rolleyes: Give me Derek Trucks seven days a week and twice on Sundays.

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Sorry,but what's the point of comparing them as artists?Even Eddie will tell you that tapping is merely an expansion of Page's Heartbreaker solo!Eddie would definately say Jimmy,the best concert of his life according to EVH was LZ in one of the gigs off HTWWW,that night the Heartbreaker solo inspired him to invent tapping,he merely took Pages template and added virtuosity in exchange for that feeling Page has,i did a school project on Eddie once,damn fine guitarist,but Page kicks his arse.

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