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hippylove

lord of the rings and led zeppelin

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I have a few pages from another site that covers the LotR references that are directly related to the songs of Roberts. The three that are used are; Battle of Evermore, Misty Mountain Hop, and Over the Hills and Far Away. The first is obvious. The second refers to The Hobbit and the Dwaves with Gandalf represented by the policeman. The third is related to The Hobbit again about frodo's stay in Rivendale (Ilmaldries) while the councl of Elrond is deciding the fate of the Ring. There maybe more subtle references to Tolkiens' works but they can be vague and similaities only.

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Hi all,

I have been reading this topic and now feel like a dumbass as have posted a topic that could not be any more similar about a week ago. It's called Led Of The Rings.

Your no dumbass,boyo. :)

KB

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Hi Arohtar,all,

I have a few pages from another site that covers the LotR references that are directly related to the songs of Roberts. The three that are used are; Battle of Evermore, Misty Mountain Hop, and Over the Hills and Far Away. The first is obvious. The second refers to The Hobbit and the Dwaves with Gandalf represented by the policeman. The third is related to The Hobbit again about frodo's stay in Rivendale (Ilmaldries) while the councl of Elrond is deciding the fate of the Ring. There maybe more subtle references to Tolkiens' works but they can be vague and similaities only.

Sorry, they are not Roberts songs.Please don't take offense to that. :)

Battle of Evermore,there are a few references,but the only Tolkien one is Ringwraiths.

Misty Mountain Hop,no Tolkien,only the title.

Over the Hills and Far Away,none.

Ramble On,lots-Rivendale,Gollum,Evil One.

KB

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Hi Arohtar,all,

Sorry, they are not Roberts songs.Please don't take offense to that. smile.gif

Battle of Evermore,there are a few references,but the only Tolkien one is Ringwraiths.

Misty Mountain Hop,no Tolkien,only the title.

Over the Hills and Far Away,none.

Ramble On,lots-Rivendale,Gollum,Evil One.

KB

Oh yeah?

What about the Dark Lord rides in force tonight?

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Not all Dark Lords and Evil Ones are necessarily Tolkien-related, though.

But in the context of the theme of BOE, in this instance they are.

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Hi Reg,all,

Oh yeah?

What about the Dark Lord rides in force tonight?

True,it could be.But Aq,has a point and wasn't BOE,about Scottish border wars?

Any who,good discussion!

KB

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Hi Reg,all,

True,it could be.But Aq,has a point and wasn't BOE,about Scottish border wars?

Any who,good discussion!

KB

Hi Kev,

Sorry mate, I cant find a reference to Aq 's point about BOE being about Scottish border wars? But it is more likely that it is about Welsh Border Wars than Scottish ones, as Robert has an affinity to Wales, and those Welchers can be really mean bastards you know?

"Dance in the dark of night, sing to the morning light." Now that could be a reference to the "Druids", a group of scantily clad Welsh Wood Nymphs and Randy Old Religious Sods who liked to party all night long. ;)

With some verses i get an Ancient Briton/Welsh feel and with others i''m transported back in time and space to Middle Earth, wherever i end up i know Robert had been there before me. ;)

Kind Regards, Danny

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My point was about the Dark Lord refs, etc.--Anjin-san was the one who mentioned that the song was about the Scottish border wars (as Robert has said, I believe).

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It's obvious that none of the Tolkien-related lyrics have any other meaning beyond Plant having lifted from what he was obsessed with at the time. None of his usage was in any way actually related to the books themselves. Ringwraiths, Mordor, blahblahblah. Let's not forget the "all that glitters" line in Stairway which is also a lift from Tolkien. I think fans of LotR really want there to be a deeper connection between Zep and the whole Tolkien fantasy thing, but there really isn't one. Much like Plant singing about "Kashmir" has nothing to do with the actual geography or landscape of Kashmir. Which, by the way, is a place that Plant himself even acknowledged that he'd never even been to when he wrote the song. It just sounded cool.

So, even with the Gollum/Mordor references in "Ramble On", they don't even make any sense. Nor should they. The song's about being in a rock band and traveling the world meeting chicks. It draws parallels to the theme of travelling, like was used in the Hobbit, but has nothing to really do with anything Tolkien. Nearly every book uses the theme of travelling at some point. As for the specific Tolkien references, Plant could've easily replaced "Gollum" with "The Dark Dragon" and "Mordor" for "The End of the Earth" and it would've had the same effect, since Plant didn't even use those items in any correct context to what those characters/places actually were in the Tolkien book. Gollum didn't steal anyone's lover in the books, and no one met a girl in Mordor and fell in love. So, that he used those specific fiction items only speaks to the fact that he was a 20 year old kid when he wrote those lyrics in the first place, and he was living in a time when the hippies were bringing all that fantasy stuff back into the mainstream. He just used them because he thought they sounded cool. It's since turned into (and perpetuated) this silly connection between Zep and those books. "Gollum, the evil one..." and "The ringwraiths ride in black" are EASILY his worst lyrics ever.

Edited by cookieshoes

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It's obvious that none of the Tolkien-related lyrics have any other meaning beyond Plant having lifted from what he was obsessed with at the time. None of his usage was in any way actually related to the books themselves. Ringwraiths, Mordor, blahblahblah. Let's not forget the "all that glitters" line in Stairway which is also a lift from Tolkien. I think fans of LotR really want there to be a deeper connection between Zep and the whole Tolkien fantasy thing, but there really isn't one. Much like Plant singing about "Kashmir" has nothing to do with the actual geography or landscape of Kashmir. Which, by the way, is a place that Plant himself even acknowledged that he'd never even been to when he wrote the song. It just sounded cool.

So, even with the Gollum/Mordor references in "Ramble On", they don't even make any sense. Nor should they. The song's about being in a rock band and traveling the world meeting chicks. It draws parallels to the theme of travelling, like was used in the Hobbit, but has nothing to really do with anything Tolkien. Nearly every book uses the theme of travelling at some point. As for the specific Tolkien references, Plant could've easily replaced "Gollum" with "The Dark Dragon" and "Mordor" for "The End of the Earth" and it would've had the same effect, since Plant didn't even use those items in any correct context to what those characters/places actually were in the Tolkien book. Gollum didn't steal anyone's lover in the books, and no one met a girl in Mordor and fell in love. So, that he used those specific fiction items only speaks to the fact that he was a 20 year old kid when he wrote those lyrics in the first place, and he was living in a time when the hippies were bringing all that fantasy stuff back into the mainstream. He just used them because he thought they sounded cool. It's since turned into (and perpetuated) this silly connection between Zep and those books. "Gollum, the evil one..." and "The ringwraiths ride in black" are EASILY his worst lyrics ever.

Yes. To all of it, except I'm not about to debate worst lyrics! :D

(But I admit the first few times I heard the song I was unclear whether Gollum=the Evil One, or whether these were two separate characters, "Gollum and the Evil One". Either way, as you said, only the name has anything to do with Tolkien.)

Edited by Aquamarine

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Hi all,

It's since turned into (and perpetuated) this silly connection between Zep and those books. "Gollum, the evil one..." and "The ringwraiths ride in black" are EASILY his worst lyrics ever.

Mr. Plant,being the lyricist for the band and having read LOTR,used those influences in his writings.He was quoted as saying; "After I read Tolkien,I had to live in the country."

Have you read the book?The Ring wraiths were clocked in black,...see FOTR.

KB

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Hi all,

Mr. Plant,being the lyricist for the band and having read LOTR,used those influences in his writings.He was quoted as saying; "After I read Tolkien,I had to live in the country."

Have you read the book?The Ring wraiths were clocked in black,...see FOTR.

KB

Yes, I've read all the books. The fact that Plant mentions characters' names or traits is ultimately outweighed by the fact that the songs he makes those references in have nothing whatsoever to do with any real connection to Tolkien's plot or character lines. Which I think is what makes it silly, because Plant comes off as a pretty poor lyricist in those moments, given that he had to borrow awkwardly from a famous fantasy trilogy and then mis-use the references. You can't sing a song and mention "Clark Kent" and "Superman", and then have the song actually be about the life of a plumber. It just comes off as corny. Nothing in the Zep songs has any real connection to Tolkien's characters, other than Plant having apparently been such a fan that he decided to create his own "fan fiction" by using the character references in songs that had nothing to do with them. If he was such a fan, why not use them correctly?

IMO, Ramble On would be exponentially more awesome than it already is if it didn't have those nonsense Tolkien references. Every time I hear it still to this day I cringe. The rest of the lyrics are wonderful. Page's playing, Jones bass lines, Bonhams' rhythm... everything. Plant just HAD to taint it by throwing in Gollum and all that.

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Yes, I've read all the books. The fact that Plant mentions characters' names or traits is ultimately outweighed by the fact that the songs he makes those references in have nothing whatsoever to do with any real connection to Tolkien's plot or character lines. Which I think is what makes it silly, because Plant comes off as a pretty poor lyricist in those moments, given that he had to borrow awkwardly from a famous fantasy trilogy and then mis-use the references. You can't sing a song and mention "Clark Kent" and "Superman", and then have the song actually be about the life of a plumber. It just comes off as corny. Nothing in the Zep songs has any real connection to Tolkien's characters, other than Plant having apparently been such a fan that he decided to create his own "fan fiction" by using the character references in songs that had nothing to do with them. If he was such a fan, why not use them correctly?

IMO, Ramble On would be exponentially more awesome than it already is if it didn't have those nonsense Tolkien references. Every time I hear it still to this day I cringe. The rest of the lyrics are wonderful. Page's playing, Jones bass lines, Bonhams' rhythm... everything. Plant just HAD to taint it by throwing in Gollum and all that.

Says you.

I've been listening to Ramble On & BOE for 40 years and they reek of Tolkien influences and the lyrics are brilliant as most of Robert's are.

The road goes ever on.......

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