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ZoSo88

Who is better than Jimmy Page?

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Since quite a few people have intentionally or unintentionally knocked Jimmy Page, I'm coming to his defense. Now perhaps alot of you are very much Zep and Page fans, and like other stuff to, thats great. Not everyone has to pick an overall favorite. Some people do not believe Jimmy is the greatest or the best, and thats fine, but I want to know why you think that. But here is why I think Pagey is the best...

He is the greatest, most accomplished, successful, renowned, diverse, and skilled Guitar player in the history of modern music. It can be argued that Jimmy Page contributed more to the development of Rock & Roll then any other musician in history. It all began when Page first picked up a guitar when he was 12 years old. During a two year period, Page advanced at an abnormal level. He was largely self taught, took few lessons during this period, but would advance past the level of his teacher in a week or less on average. By the time he was 14 years old, he was on television performing. Throughout his high school years, he was known for bringing a guitar to school ever day, having it confiscated and given back when he would leave. By the time Page turned 18, he had began a steady music career. He breifly had a stint with the band "The Crusaders" untill he became increasingly ill and had to drop the band. About a year later, Page jammed in public places, and even played along side Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton. It was during one of these jams that he was discovered and hired to begin sessions work. The first record he played on was a single entitled "Diamonds" which rose to the top of the charts hitting number 1. It is estimated that between 1963-1965, Page played on 50-90% of all records recorded in London. He played with everyone from "The Rolling Stones" to "The Who" and so on. During this time be became the most sought after sessions guitarist in the world. He was offered to replace Eric Clapton in the band "The Yardbirds" but declined due to his friendship with Clapton, and he favored sessions work which was more lucrative at the time. He suggested that his friend Jeff Beck replace Clapton, and he did. Page would later also join The Yardbirds. In time, each member of the band left for various personal reasons, and Page was left with full creative control. He still had a tour obligation, and needed to push out a studio album, he went out in search of creating a "Super Band". There was a time when Page wanted to team up with Keith Moon (of The Who), John Entwistle (of The Who), and John Paul Jones. But lack of finding a proper lead vocalist put the project at a hault. At this point Page had to reform The Yardbirds. John Paul Jones who worked with Page before volunteered and Page accepted. Page then followed a tip about an 18 year old named Robert Plant. He saw Plant perform and signed him immediatly. Plant then suggested former bandmate John Bonham and after some negotiation, Bonham joined. Page, Plant, Jones, and Bonham formed "The New Yardbirds" and finished off their tour. They then hit the studio to create their first studio album. Keith Moon said this band would blow up like a lead zeppelin, and so...Led Zeppelin was formed. Page served as the bands lead songwriter, producer, and guitarist. He is credited as being "The Godfather of Rock & Roll" for various reasons. He changed what the sound of Rock would come to be known as by not only turing up the acceptable volume, but pioneering the ways in which music would be heard. He is credited as having invented "Reverse Echo" a technique in which the echo that comes from the result on an instrument being played, is placed before the note is actually hit, creating a feeling of unsual suspense. He toyed around with various recording techniques, putting amps in toilet bowls, odd room structures, even had drummer John Bohman play at the bottom of a stairwell and record the echo as heard from the top. Page played songs often too complicated to be played on his signature "Gibson Les Paul" and sometimes requiring the use of double and triple neck guitars, to perform the songs while in concert. His performance was second to none, often playing in a highly intoxicated state, without any negative effect impacting his performance. He wipped out Violen Bows to be used on guitars, and was inovative not only in his recording techniques, but in the way he performed his music. He had a stage precense unlike that of his contemporaries. His style in and of itself was so diverse, Zeppelin's music ranged from hard rock, to folk, blues, classical, soul, indian, arabian, country, and any other concievable musical style. He credited this to the high demand put on him when playing as a sessions musician. He had to adapt to every style they had because he had no choice of preference being a guitarist for higher. The years of sessions worked led to Page being able to fuse all the styles together in order to create his own distinctive sound. Led Zeppelin became the most successful Rock band in music history, selling over 300 Million albums world-wide. Page is the only pure guitarist to be inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, multiple times, as he was inducted as both a member of "The Yardbirds" and "Led Zeppelin". His style inspired countless future guitarists to adopt many of his methods and techniques by incorporating them into their own music. It is for these reasons that I concider Jimmy Page to be the greatest Rock Guitarist.

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No question by me that Jimmy Page is the single greatest living guitarist. We were talking about bands as a whole when not putting Zeppelin on top of that list. But again, I never thought for a second Page wasn't the best that there is, and certainly don't need any convincing of it personally. Page is IT. Left of Heaven and just right of Hell (via Crowley)...

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One of the best, but not the best. Actually, there is no "best' guitarist. There is such a wide range of criteria one would have to judge by, one could make a good argument for "best" with a large number of guitarists. If we're putting a heavy emphasis on technique for example, you couldn't make as strong of a case for Page against lets say, Steve Vai. But at the same time if we put a heavy emphasis on feel, someone like Hendrix IMHO blows Vai out of the water. And so on.... It all depends on how you lok at it. I perfer to simply have my favorites, and leave the who's best debates for the rock magazines when they're looking to fill a few empty pages.

B)

Edited by Killing Floor Blues

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The most skilled? No. One of the most creative? Yes. As was said, however, there is no single best musician for any instrument.

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It's a matter of taste. You cannot say one is better then the other. You can say it as your opinion. And we all know what opinions are like. :D

BTW, imho, no one is better. :)

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I'm with a couple of folks above.

'Best' is subjective. It can't be quantified.

'Favorite', 'Of the greatest', 'Legend', 'Innovative', 'Rock God', 'Superstar', etc., ... these can always apply to Pagey.

Edited by Led Zeppelin

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It's a matter of taste. You cannot say one is better then the other. You can say it as your opinion. And we all know what opinions are like. :D

BTW, imho, no one is better. :)

i agree. MrZoSo is right. you cant campare guitarists that play different genres. you can have your opinion, but it should be like best blues guitarist: so-and-so. best metal guitarist: so-and-so

Edited by JimmyPageZoSo56

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Page's greatest strength was having excellent musical ideas and getting those ideas recorded, everything else he did, including his guitar playing comes after that. He's a great guitarist and part of what makes him great is he always kept it interesting but his playing was often marred by messy technique and bad tone. Personally I feel good musical ideas trump technique every time but as a guitarist it's easy for me to see why people would see flaws in his playing. He's my personal favourite but I often have trouble explaining why to other guitarists, who tend to think Jimmy's propensity for sloppiness make him overrated. He's my "best" but I don't try to push that on to others, everyone likes and appreciates different things.

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Agreed, it's all taste. Page is indeed an incredible guitarist and has proved his mark at the top of the heap.......but there are a few that IMO stsnd obove and beyond. Page,Gilmoure, others are all guitarists that have been copied verbatim by thousands of guitarists around the world, but I can't think of many that can actually do the things Jeff Beck does on a guitar. Plus ....he's getting better with age. Page would even agree.

But then there is another matter of just pure genius on a six string. Saw him once at the Birchmere in Alexandria Va. His name was Danny Gatton and he was the Paganini of the guitar. I've never been blown away by a guitarist like I was w/ him......and I've seen Page and Beck plenty of times.

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i agree. MrZoSo is right. you cant campare guitarists that play different genres. you can have your opinion, but it should be like best blues guitarist: so-and-so. best metal guitarist: so-and-so

Even then, taste is still subjective no matter how you narrow down the categories or generes. The is no "best", period.

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The most skilled? No. One of the most creative? Yes. As was said, however, there is no single best musician for any instrument.

I would have to agree. I think there are plenty of guitarists with more skill than Page, but Page has a level of creativity that beats most others. Oh, and Page's technical ability is still ridiculously high, just in case I didn't make that impression otherwise B)

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True, and it is hard to compare, but from time to time, people do have countdowns and rankings. Like when VH! counted down the 100 top artists if heavy metal, they ranked LZ as #1. And no one said, well, Zep is so different from Sabbath, Floyd, Kiss or whatever, that they couldn't rank, they did the best trying to rank on an overall basis. No one band or artist will be the best at every single category, thats not what im saying, im saying overall. There is this over exagerated thing about Page being sloppy, he played humanistic is the best way i could describe it, listen to the records. You do not hear, out-of-tune and sloppy playing as a genral rule of thumb, its blown out of purportion. And in many ways, Page's sloppy playing and mistakes were left in, not to be lazy because no one spent more time in the studio then him, but because it had a very human feel to it, where more technical guitarists like Steve Vai sound like a computer program sometimes. Its not like Pagey couldn't play that way, it just didn't sound that good, and that is why is works are more famous and reckognizable, they were by a matter of opinion, simply better. People accuse Hendrix of playing sloppy, but that was more when he was all messed up and he'd snap strings and be carried of the stage kind of deal. But even in Hendrix's case, he was not as consitantly good as Page w/zeppelin. Yes, Page is my favorite, and yes its hard to proclaim anyone the best, but if you had to overall, you'd have to give it to him. There is a reason he's been the most successful in terms of album sales, there is a reason he was so legendary as a sessions player, and there is a reason he is the only double inductee of the Rock Hall...for guitar playing only. This stuff didn't happen by accident and there is a reason he as accomplished more then others.

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It's a matter of taste. You cannot say one is better then the other. You can say it as your opinion. And we all know what opinions are like. :D

BTW, imho, no one is better. :)

Bang on. The first bit not the BTW. Edited by johnthomasmoby

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True, and it is hard to compare, but from time to time, people do have countdowns and rankings. Like when VH! counted down the 100 top artists if heavy metal, they ranked LZ as #1. And no one said, well, Zep is so different from Sabbath, Floyd, Kiss or whatever, that they couldn't rank, they did the best trying to rank on an overall basis. No one band or artist will be the best at every single category, thats not what im saying, im saying overall. There is this over exagerated thing about Page being sloppy, he played humanistic is the best way i could describe it, listen to the records. You do not hear, out-of-tune and sloppy playing as a genral rule of thumb, its blown out of purportion. And in many ways, Page's sloppy playing and mistakes were left in, not to be lazy because no one spent more time in the studio then him, but because it had a very human feel to it, where more technical guitarists like Steve Vai sound like a computer program sometimes. Its not like Pagey couldn't play that way, it just didn't sound that good, and that is why is works are more famous and reckognizable, they were by a matter of opinion, simply better. People accuse Hendrix of playing sloppy, but that was more when he was all messed up and he'd snap strings and be carried of the stage kind of deal. But even in Hendrix's case, he was not as consitantly good as Page w/zeppelin. Yes, Page is my favorite, and yes its hard to proclaim anyone the best, but if you had to overall, you'd have to give it to him. There is a reason he's been the most successful in terms of album sales, there is a reason he was so legendary as a sessions player, and there is a reason he is the only double inductee of the Rock Hall...for guitar playing only. This stuff didn't happen by accident and there is a reason he as accomplished more then others.

The only famous guitarist I often hear getting criticized for being sloppy is Keith Richards, who is! Page gets some flack for being sloppier than players like Gilmour and such, but I don't think most of the people who make those claims are trying to say that he is sloppy in general, just not quite as tight as others. He's not a sloppy player, bottom line.

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True, but i wouldn't knock anything Page does, and even this sometimes sloppy playing i think would sound better then if he played less sloppy, i dont want to hear riffs that sound like they come out of a computer program. Listen to the riff of Heartbreaker on the album, im completely in awe of its brilliance. I've heard someone describe it as the guitar having an orgasim...and not meaning to reduce the quality of the conzo...you just don't get that feel out of other players, even ones more technically sound.

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One of the best technical players? Or skilled players? Not a chance. I judge Page as one of the greatest composers, and musical masterminds of all time. His versatility, and writing and arrangements puts him at the top of the list. His skill as a guitar player, while highly competent are not necessarily top tier, particularly compared to the virtuoso's of the 80s to the present. However, he created music that was both accessible to the masses and particular to loyal fans of Led Zeppelin.

As a pure guitar player, there are kids under 20 years old (albeit, very talented kids) who can play the instrument at the same level. But by itself, being a great guitar player in general doesn't get you very far, and thats where Page's musicianship puts him over the top.

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One of the best technical players? Or skilled players? Not a chance. I judge Page as one of the greatest composers, and musical masterminds of all time. His versatility, and writing and arrangements puts him at the top of the list. His skill as a guitar player, while highly competent are not necessarily top tier, particularly compared to the virtuoso's of the 80s to the present. However, he created music that was both accessible to the masses and particular to loyal fans of Led Zeppelin.

As a pure guitar player, there are kids under 20 years old (albeit, very talented kids) who can play the instrument at the same level. But by itself, being a great guitar player in general doesn't get you very far, and thats where Page's musicianship puts him over the top.

You're absolutely right.

I don't understand why people force themselves to believe that their favorite guitarist (in this case Jimmy Page) is also the best ever. It's not necessary, he is what he is and if you prefer his music over other music than great, but it doesn't make you the best at your instrument ever.

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One of the best technical players? Or skilled players? Not a chance. I judge Page as one of the greatest composers, and musical masterminds of all time. His versatility, and writing and arrangements puts him at the top of the list. His skill as a guitar player, while highly competent are not necessarily top tier, particularly compared to the virtuoso's of the 80s to the present. However, he created music that was both accessible to the masses and particular to loyal fans of Led Zeppelin.

As a pure guitar player, there are kids under 20 years old (albeit, very talented kids) who can play the instrument at the same level. But by itself, being a great guitar player in general doesn't get you very far, and thats where Page's musicianship puts him over the top.

Well said, and thanks for keeping it under dissertaion length! (I haven't even read the post that starts this thread)

The only thing I might add, is style is what seperates virtuoso's from popular musicians. Vituoso's bore me because as someone mentioned earlier, they sound as if the music they make is coming out with computer precision.

Style= personality, and that's what makes Page interesting.....Pete Townsend is not as technical a lead player as Jimmy Page, but to me, his style is just as interesting.

Notes don't change, it's how someone turns them into a personal statement that makes an artist such as Jimmy Page, and fortunately for music listeners worldwide, others have explored these same notes with their own interpretations.

Music would be boring if someone wasn't better, just as good, or worse.

It takes all to be able to recognize.  B)

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1. Jimmy Hendrix

2. Jimmy Page

3. Joe Walsh

4. Don Felder

The last 2 may not be the best, but it's their work that turned the Eagles from country musicians into Rock.

One more, I forgot - Brian May - the guy is an astrophysics doctor, can you believe it?

They are the most memorable.

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I don't like to compare, but here are two guitarists I believe are more technically and musically accomplished than pagey.

Jimi Hendrix

This guy's playing is so unbelievable. Listening to him is like elevating yourself beyond reality. It's a blend of so much and so unrestrictive to formats. His rythm part is like his solo part, and vice versa. There is so much in his playing, it's beyond just playing something to a chord structure. The little notes he adds here and there can change so much about the song.

Steve Vai

A modern genius. Just because he did not play in the 60s or make some big name from a world famous rock band does not mean that he is any less than the gods of rock. His music is much like hendrix's- without restrictions, without boundaries, and at times without a sense of intention. It's free flowing and it just works like that.

Pagey is great, he has a great sense of direction and melody, and his riff writing is some of the best.

Again, music is subjective, of course. Some people could even consider Raffi to be a "better" guitarist than Brian May.

Edited by Timboh56

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I don't like that word 'the best'! In my opinion there is no best guitarist, there are couple (not a lot) of other guitarist who kick ass just as much as our dear Jimmy. What differenciates them is their style, their band etc. Jimmy is my favourite but I'll never say that he's THE ultimate best. I'm thinking : Clapton, Hendrix, Santana, Slash, Zappa, Beck...they kick ass. :)

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first of all you cant have a "best" guitarist sure page is great however there are things you have to consider first of all pure skill and you can only judge this by what the guitarist plays i dont care if you like a band or not anyone can agree that a guitarist is so good but none can be the best.

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