TSRTS Soundtrack!

[petehnek]

That's a lot of thought you've put into the re-issueing of LZIV.

I merely applied the same philosophy towards remixing that was used in TSRTS to a possible remix of Zep IV, just to demonstrate the absurdity of the idea. The ones putting all the "thought" into remixing classic Zeppelin releases are Page and Shirley.

[kirchzep27]

As far as live material, there is a cd single off of -unledded with -when the levee breaks as an extra track, they put an effect on plant's vocals on one short section there. Speaking of -lz 4 and effects... -when the levee breaks! , that little vocal effect on -rock and roll/ let it, part,synth/four sticks,echo/going to california. I couldnt imagine them altering an original album, but they always originally altered stuff in the studio. I guess -page couldnt help himself with the current -tsrts.

[petehnek]

Speaking of -lz 4 and effects... -when the levee breaks! , that little vocal effect on -rock and roll/ let it, part,synth/four sticks,echo/going to california. I couldnt imagine them altering an original album, but they always originally altered stuff in the studio. I guess -page couldnt help himself with the current -tsrts.

Yeah, in the studio or live, do whatever you want to make it sound the way you want. Then you release it and it's done. If you want to change stuff, put out an alternate version but leave the original alone. The mixes themselves are also a performance that can't really be recaptured. They could never go back and make Levee Breaks the same with all the panning and stuff.

I think with live stuff, revisiting a previously released live album and changing stuff is acceptable

as long as you add in stuff that had been edited out before. Making the songs longer is nice. Getting rid of stuff stinks because at some point, that ONE NOTE that Plant hits or that roll or the lick makes the song for somebody, so why take that chance? If you want to present an alternate version with edits or a new solo, put out an alternate version CD that accompanies the original or expanded version of the song. Dazed is great example: all they needed to do was add that build at 24 minutes that had been edited out originally. The rest, leave it alone. You want to have another version of it with the different rhythm during San Francisco, then make TSRTS a 3CD set and put that stuff on the extra CD. It's not hard or uncommon.

[dazedcat]

Well, edits and all, I find myself enjoying the soundtrack release a lot. I was never a very big fan of the original double LP, but I find myself listening to this and enjoying it very much. No Quarter never sounded so good..............

For me at least the remastering worked wonders.

Regards;

[kirchzep27]

^-petehnek, I understand what your saying, but i'm not totally bummed out by it. I used to blast the section in -wll that was edited out, but i can still blast the old copy. In regards to other options, unfortunately i don't think -the song remains the same will ever be revisited at this point. -page/jones/plant signed off on this and thats what they want to put out. I am impressed by the sound and its a good example of what they could do on other live releases in the future.

[rushzep]

Something I found kind of disappointing is the new solo for "Celebration Day". I thought the original soundtrack version was amazing!

[gperkins151]

First of all, Stu, you don't know what you're talking about. No one ever even hinted from the Zep camp or Kevin Shirley that this would be the old soundtrack revamped. Shall I re-post the original press release or the interview with Mr. Shirley?

Could you please?

It is the soundtrack to the film. Hello? That's what soundtrack means. If anything, the original soundtack was the dupe as it wasn't true to the film. As for cuts, the original soundtrack had hundreds of them. You're just used to hearing it a certain way. I have boots of all three nights. Everything ever officially issued has been a massive edit fest from all three nights. I hear this bitching about the beginning of the NQ solo being cut, yet I don't hear any whining about the original soundtack have the last minute of the very same solo cut. Do your homework before crying "scamming" "fucking retards". If you don't like the result, you're entitled to your feelings, but accusing Page and Shirley of pulling a bait-and-switch is bullshit, plain and simple. The bottom line is that they worked to make the music better fit the edits in the film, which they couldn't alter for legal reasons,

I have read this elsewhere. If Page had wanted to, could he have altered the soundtrack to include the complete songs that folks have been complaining about (NQ, etc.), or were they tied by legalities to make it match the DVD exactly? I am fairly certain that they weren't limited by legalities for the soundtrack, as I believe that there are some small differences between it and the DVD.

Thanks for your post, at any rate. I think that including the extra songs this time around was an effort to give the fans more. By editing many of the other tracks, they gave us less. They know that the die-hard fans would buy both and if the audio is almost the same, how can they not expect us to feel a little ripped off? The first time around, we got two different audio accounts of the show(s). I just think it would have been great if they did that this time as well.

Also, has Page explained anywhere why he chose to present the new soundtrack as he did? I can't help but figure he would be the best person to describe the reasons why for the edits or the reasons why the soundtrack and the movie audio had to be almost identical.

[Stu]

Still waiting on that Press Release!

[Symphonictank]

As usual, not everyone can be pleased by this, but it's unfortunate to see so much criticism of the release.

I, for one, am very thankful to get the sound upgrade on the movie and the soundtrack. It was much needed and long overdue.

I spent a good part of my teens watching this flick at midnight movies every month or so, but I listened to the soundtrack weekly (sometimes daily, since I was playing my guitar along with the soundtrack learning all the licks I could and enjoying myself trying to emulate Page). I basically know the original soundtrack release note for note as many of you do, and have always been jerked back to consciousness when watching the movie on VHS or DVD as an adult by the differences between the soundtrack and actual film.

We should all be thankful for the sonic upgrade here in spite of the new film-based edits. There's a thousand things to nitpick on releases of this nature, but if you're spending that much time nitpicking isntead of enjoying the excitement of the release, you may need to find out what's really bothering you about life.

How can you not enjoy hearing the "san francisco" part of D&C and realizing it's the seed of the bridge part in Achille's Last Stand? Does the different edit really lose that much in the translation? Was the build to it nearly as important as the segment itself?

No Quarter is a little harder for me to take because it is one of the finest guitar solos ever put together, but will it be unlistenable because of the different edit? Not for me. I have the original soundtrack release of this song, but more importantly, the original is in my head. The new release edit won't take that away and is quite enjoyable on the remaster/re-release.

Come to realize that one of the great things about Zeppelin was that they experimented on-stage, continuously developing new material and therefore, almost never performed a song quite the same from one performance to another. It's a beautiful curse to be so tight and talented.

I can't help but smile! Thanks!!

[gperkins151]

Why there are any cuts at all in the soundtrack is inexcusable. BD is cut like the movie, and they've got the full version on the 2003 DVD! What's up with that? I realize due to some legalities they had to keep the movie the same, but why try to make the soundtrack match? Why keep the horrible edits, even add some in?

cheers

Pete

Can someone clarify which release has the unedited No Quarter? I know the original soundtrack had it, but was it edited for the 2007 release of the film or only the 2007 soundtrack?

George

[Stratcat]

My Best Buy in Southern Florida had the CD's, but not the DVD's... When I asked about it, the employee looked it up and it showed a December release date.

So I'll be at Circuit City tomorrow... thank you all for the info.

And the CD's are brilliant!!!

Me Too! Rock on.

[xZOSOx]

...alot of young kids are gonna hear led zeppelin for the first time with these two cds...

i feel bad for them that they have to hear the edited TSRTS soundtrack first, NO QUARTER! WHY!

[kirchzep27]

i feel bad for them that they have to hear the edited TSRTS soundtrack first, NO QUARTER! WHY!

Really? if thats a problem for a young kid -led zep listener today then they should be happy w/those problems. I love the sound of the cd soundtrack...listened to it too much and am now in massive -other artist listening mode.

[selection7]

We should all be thankful for the sonic upgrade here in spite of the new film-based edits. There's a thousand things to nitpick on releases of this nature, but if you're spending that much time nitpicking isntead of enjoying the excitement of the release, you may need to find out what's really bothering you about life.

I, for one, appreciate the DVD. As I said earlier, the question is the CD. By getting this version it means we'll likely never get the proper version...that is, the version that Page himself once said (many years ago) that they took great care to edit based on musical quality rather than video edits since it was an audio-only medium. It's beside the point that there are edits on both. The point is that the edits on the live audio-only release were based on the quality of the performance, not unrelated video edits.

[petehnek]

but if you're spending that much time nitpicking isntead of enjoying the excitement of the release, you may need to find out what's really bothering you about life.

What's really bothering me about life today are the hideous edits in NQ and WLL and clearing out the best solo Page ever played in CD. That's it really. Life would be perfect if they hadn't edited these for no reason.

How can you not enjoy hearing the "san francisco" part of D&C and realizing it's the seed of the bridge part in Achille's Last Stand? Does the different edit really lose that much in the translation? Was the build to it nearly as important as the segment itself?

How is the new edit in San Francisco any more or less ALS than the old one? Surely you didn't need a new release to notice that? It's always been obvious that that is where ALS came from.

No Quarter is a little harder for me to take because it is one of the finest guitar solos ever put together, but will it be unlistenable because of the different edit? Not for me. I have the original soundtrack release of this song, but more importantly, the original is in my head. The new release edit won't take that away and is quite enjoyable on the remaster/re-release.

Having the solo ingrained in my head is the reason NQ is impossible to listen to now with that hideous minute and a half guitar solo edit. If I didn't know it was there, I wouldn't miss it, yeah? What a bad joke. So is WLL.

The new songs are nice but most of them you heard on the 2003 DVD, so it's not particularly new. They're not really doing you any favors here, especially when BD is available in full form on the 2003 DVD while it is cut here.

If they wanted to showcase different versions of the songs, there are things called Bonus Tracks or Bonus CDs where they could have issued alternate versions. Every other re-release does it: you remaster the old stuff as it was and then add the alternate takes in afterwards. How difficult would that have been to do?

[petehnek]

Can someone clarify which release has the unedited No Quarter? I know the original soundtrack had it, but was it edited for the 2007 release of the film or only the 2007 soundtrack?

George

The original TSRTS album/CD. Both the TSRTS DVD and the CD released this year are horribly edited. The movie always had a minute and half cut out from Page's solo but now they arbitrarily made the CD match it. The part that is missing is the transition from JPJ's keyboard solo to Page's solo, including the signature lick that Page uses to start off his solo.

[gperkins151]

Having the solo ingrained in my head is the reason NQ is impossible to listen to now with that hideous minute and a half guitar solo edit. If I didn't know it was there, I wouldn't miss it, yeah? What a bad joke. So is WLL.

I've had some luck with editing tracks on itunes recently and I will soon try my hand at inserting that missing stuff, as well as elsewhere. I would appreciate some help in getting a complete list of missing stuff form the first release so that I can assemble a complete one using as much of the ]

new remastered set as possible. I plan to put The Ocean at the end where it belongs, include the songs not used in the original release and then insert the missing edits. Originally, I was going to just use the tracks from the old version in their entirety, but I think it would be better to retain as much of that new, glorious remastering as possible. I'd hate to start yet another thread, with so many existing at the moment, but I see no other way. Once I get started, I will start a thread, called "The Song NOW Remains the Same"

[solar]

QUOTE (gperkins151 @ Dec 2 2007, 04:18 PM)

Can someone clarify which release has the unedited No Quarter? I know the original soundtrack had it, but was it edited for the 2007 release of the film or only the 2007 soundtrack?

George

The original TSRTS album/CD.

Untrue. Per The Garden Tapes (http://www.thegardentapes.co.uk/):

"No Quarter

The later versions of "No Quarter", such as those performed on the 1977 tour, contained some of the band's most fascinating and exciting instrumental improvisations. Many of these versions are masterpieces, of course, but some of the eerie quality of the original arrangement was sacrificed. To hear "No Quarter" at its most intense and atmospheric, look no further than the 1973 American tour, where it made its live debut.

The version in the film is made up of three sections, one from each night. The album version only uses material from the first two nights, but in four different sections.

Film first, with DVD timings in brackets:

(NTSC 0:30:47-0:33:31, PAL 0:29:33-0:32:11) The opening instrumentals and most of the first verse, up to immediately after "to build a dream for me and you" - 27th.

(NTSC 0:33:31-0:34:27, PAL 0:32:11-0:33:04) From there to the end of the verse, and the first few bars of Jonesey's solo where he's still playing the main theme - 29th.

(NTSC 0:34:27-0:41:08, PAL 0:33:04-0:39:29) From the beginning of the keyboard solo proper to the end of the song, but with a rather unpleasant cut in the instrumental section - 28th.

The cut in section 3 is at NTSC 0:35:57, PAL 0:34:31 and results in a loss of 1 minute 34 seconds of music. Presumably the reason for this cut had something to do with fitting in the music around the footage of Jonesey's fantasy sequence, but it's a tragic loss. We miss out on some vital and masterful tension-building, as the guitar joins the keyboard and drums, subtle at first, gradually becoming more prominent, until the signature nine-note motif announces a turning point, after which Pagey will begin to dominate the proceedings. Led Zeppelin could fit a lot of magical brilliance into 1 minute 34 seconds in 1973. Fortunately, all this is intact on the album. Speaking of which:

We start the same as the film, and actually continue for a little longer before the first edit, at the very end of the first verse/chorus (00:05-03:27) - 27th.

From Bonzo's crash as Jonesey starts the keyboard solo, through to quite near the end of the instrumental, including the section that was cut from the film (03:27-08:56) - 28th.

The last part of the instrumental is easy to spot as being very different from the film. This and the return of the main keyboard theme (08:56-09:51) - 27th.

From the return of the vocal, just as Robert sings "Walking side by side with death", to the end of the song, we're back in synch with the film (09:51-12:10) - 28th.

Timings here are from the CD, of course.

On the album, as usual, the edits are perfectly executed. Curiously, though, there are a couple of moments towards the end of the track, at 10:58 and 11:38, where slightly jumpy sounds from the cymbals give rise to suspicions of cuts or edits that do not actually exist! I really don't know what has caused these odd glitches but this whole passage unmistakably matches the recording from the 28th.

The first edit in the film is flawless but the second one (at NTSC 0:34:27, PAL 0:33:04) and the cut (at NTSC 0:35:57, PAL 0:34:31) result in slight loss of timing. Nothing too serious, but a little off-putting.

The fragments from the 27th, particularly the syncopated, slightly funky section at the end of the instrumental (album, section 3) leave me with an overwhelming desire to hear the complete version from that night. That is unfortunately not possible, as no boot tape has yet surfaced of the first part of the first night."

[petehnek]

Untrue. Per The Garden Tapes

Well yeah, there is no raw unedited version of it out there. What exists is the version that has been available since 1976 on TSRTS and now this new version that is basically the previous version minus a minute and half of killer solo. Like it says in Garden Tapes, look no further than this version for a definitive NQ. Except that this time around they mangled it for no good reason.

Gperkins: The Garden Tapes are great. When they are updated you will have all the info you could want on how the old version and the new version differ.

[solar]

Well yeah, there is no raw unedited version of it out there. What exists is the version that has been available since 1976 on TSRTS and now this new version that is basically the previous version minus a minute and half of killer solo. Like it says in Garden Tapes, look no further than this version for a definitive NQ. Except that this time around they mangled it for no good reason.

Gperkins: The Garden Tapes are great. When they are updated you will have all the info you could want on how the old version and the new version differ.

There are complete unofficial versions of NQ out there from all three MSG shows used for TSRTS.

[petehnek]

There are complete unofficial versions of NQ out there from all three MSG shows used for TSRTS.

From the Garden Tapes:

>>The fragments from the 27th, particularly the syncopated, slightly funky section at the end of the instrumental (album, section 3) leave me with an overwhelming desire to hear the complete version from that night. That is unfortunately not possible, as no boot tape has yet surfaced of the first part of the first night."<<

Anyway, unless I misread him, the guy I was responding to was asking about official releases so he could splice in the missing sections. Splicing in a boot with an official pro mixed release would sound poor, but hey, different strokes for different folks.....

Actually, if you had the boots you could just listen to them and not bother with all the splicing. Kind of moot point then.

[gperkins151]

Gperkins: The Garden Tapes are great. When they are updated you will have all the info you could want on how the old version and the new version differ.

I look forward to it, thanks!

[Jahfin]

As far as availability, I'm a little surprised that 'Target', 'Best Buy' and 'Circuit City' are the first choices for people looking to buy new music.

I've been living outside the U.S. for over 8 years now, so maybe things have changed, but, aren't there any real music stores anymore? You know, stores that sell nothing but music and employ people who are interested in and knowledgeable about music?

I'm not really surprised places like Circuit City, Best Buy and so forth don't care about the official release date. It's just another bar code to them, probably not too far away from a bar of soap or a light bulb on their inventory list. Like I said, I've been away too long, but I'd think that if you want something immediately upon release your best bet would be a specialty store. If you want the best price, then you'll probably have to wait.

Just yesterday I was just talking to my friend who owns a small record shop specializing in post-rock and other indies artists. He was telling me kids come in, listen to the CD and then go order it from Amazon or HMV so they can get free shipping or a buy 3 get Nn% off and save a little money. They had the thing in their hands at his store, but didn't buy it. They were willing to wait a few more days (or weeks! as is usually my experience with Amazon) to get the better price via free shipping.

I don't think it's realistic to expect lowest prices and up-to-the-minute products.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned.

Traditional record stores are rapidly disappearing from the landscape. I still buy from them when I can but not all of us live close to them, myself included, so they are not always an option. With a few exceptions record stores will cease to exist altogether within the next few years. Even the big box stores you mentioned are beginning to downsize their floorspace for CDs while increasing it for DVDs and games. Speciality-type record stores are taking all kinds of different measures to stay afloat including bringing in a bunch of non-music items, such as memorabilia but it's not working. Downloading is the order of the day and will soon render packaged music as we once knew it totally obsolete. As one who has lived long enough to see things go from vinyl to reel-to-reel to 8-tracks to cassettes to compact disc it's a day I dread. I have not entered the digital age yet but like when vinyl was removed from store shelves and I was forced to buy compact discs by the record industry, I will go kicking and screaming into the digital age. I am fine with the sound as long as it is not compressed as digital has come a long ways in recent years. If not, audiofreaks such as Neil Young wouldn't be prepared to finally release his long awaited box set (we hope). What I fear is the disappearance of the packaging, the physical product itself. I'm of the generation that is accustomed to sitting down with the album cover and liner notes when listening to an album for the first time. Hopefully something will be done to compensate for this in ways we can't imagine now.

[Jahfin]

Then there's the difficulty in finding these newer releases. A friend of mine in another state went to three different stores the day of release before he was able to purchase both CD and DVD. And record companies wonder why people prefer to download music these days... All in all, he said he drove around for about an hour and a half wasting gas and his time.

I didn't experience that with the latest Zep releases but I have noticed it happening more and more with major label releases. Still, I've found the best thing to do is either check online (if possible) or call ahead to be sure they have what I'm looking for first. Beats the shit out of all that driving around.

[achillestand]

can we end the duckin ndless and stupid useless discusion??

We have the old an new editiopn, stick with the one you like most or enjoy both!!