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The Rover

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you're right. all americans are not fat. we have emaciated anorexic aids infested crack addicted people as well. i see them and have to deal with them and their even more sick personas every time i have to go into town or work in a public place or on rare occasion when i turn my television on. there are a few left who do not fit the stereotypes i mentioned in this thread. but it's getting harder and harder to find the exceptions. open your eyes and look around. we have long been rotting from the core outward we are now feeling the beginnings of the collapse inward into that void.

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Zero, be quiet.

Actually, he speaks sense now.

I agree Zero, that we're becoming fat, lazy, and stupid. I won't use this forum as an example as I don't reall knwo these people, I simply know what I read. But in real life, I see it everyday.

The country is indeed rotting from the inside out, and I don't see a turnaround anytime soon...unless we get our asses in motion and do something. But with this trend of late of doing nothing...only time will tell what the hell happens to this country

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The country is indeed rotting from the inside out, and I don't see a turnaround anytime soon...unless we get our asses in motion and do something. But with this trend of late of doing nothing...only time will tell what the hell happens to this country

You're going to have to do something, otherwise in 20 years time, countries like China will start to rival the USA in economic and political power. The USA has to stay on the ball if it doesn't want to be marginalised by a country with a billion people, hundreds of millions of them highly motivated and very educated.

God help you if your cultural influence starts to slip and the English language fades as the global lingua franca

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You're going to have to do something, otherwise in 20 years time, countries like China will start to rival the USA in economic and political power. The USA has to stay on the ball if it doesn't want to be marginalised by a country with a billion people, hundreds of millions of them highly motivated and very educated.

God help you if your cultural influence starts to slip and the English language fades as the global lingua franca

Thats the whole point of the boycott. We can't let comminism grow. I don't want a military fight becasue they have nukes too, but we can kill them on the money front. Im not sure it would change their ways, but it will set them back.

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Thats the whole point of the boycott. We can't let comminism grow.

Oh please :D

There aint nothing Communist about China anymore, except for the name of the ruling party. China is almost completely capitalist, a free-wheeling market economy. There's just no democracy.

But The Chinese, like the Jews, have a very big diaspora. And this has instilled in them a lot of knowledge on how to make money and do business. The Chinese are extremely entreprenurial, and any 'Chinese expansion' would be a purely economic one. I believe there is a little chance for a nuclear war or any sort of war, as it would be bad for business.

The Mao days and the Red Terror are long gone.

But I'm sure the USA would not like to be economically subserviant to China, the way Britain is to America.

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China is not almost 100% capitalist by any means. It still has a fairly decent Communist vibe about it

Personally, I think the stage has been set in China for a revoluition...one within the next decade. The players are set, the only thing missing is a lead actor. And whoever it is needs to read Mao's books and learn to be as great a military leader he was

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I don't believe boycotting Olympic Games...

It achieves nothing, as seen by the boycotts of '76, '80, and '84

And all you're doing is hurting the atheletes. They spend years training for specific olympic games.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion; and I don't begrudge you that opinion one bit. You wanna watch the Olympics, you go right ahead and do that. Just don't lose sight of the fact that while you're watching the games, behind the scenes the Chinese government is systematically wiping out the culture of a country it has brutally occupied since 1950.

I'm not gonna be watching the Olympics. I'm not gonna participate in an event being hosted by a country whose government is systematically decimating the people and culture of Tibet. For me, it's as simple as that. Will my actions have an affect? Of course they will. Every action leads to a corresponding reaction (an affect).. at some point in time. Does that mean my action will lead to a change in the way the Chinese government deals with Tibet? No, it doesn't necessarily mean that. The affect from my action is beyond my control and is beyond my ability to know. But I do know there will be an affect; there always is. I also know that it's out of a sense of compassion for and solidarity with the Tibetan people that I won't be participating in the Beijing Olympics.

:hippy:

"Whether intentionally or unintentionally, some kind of cultural genocide is taking place."

~ The Dalai Lama, March 16, 2008.

I think His Holiness is being rather gracious is suggesting that the genocide

taking place may not be intentional on the part of the Chinese government.

What a wonderful, wonderful example of compassion, humility, and graciousness he is.

Nay, he is not "an example of" those qualities, he is an emanation of those qualities.

Eh Ma Ho! (How wondrous!)

Namaste,

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China is not almost 100% capitalist by any means. It still has a fairly decent Communist vibe about it

Personally, I think the stage has been set in China for a revoluition...one within the next decade. The players are set, the only thing missing is a lead actor. And whoever it is needs to read Mao's books and learn to be as great a military leader he was

Look, just stick to what you know about. ;)

I studied Chinese history and politics for 4 years at University, and have been a frequent visitor to the country so my understanding of this crap is pretty bloody good.

The "Communist vibe" you refer to has absolute no economic effect or even a political effect, it is just simply rolled out to keep justifying why it's still called The Communist Party and to keep the reigns on Chinese nationalism.

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ah good ol' Dopey Del....

What's with the personal attacks Gansbarre? Didn't you get a copy of the posting rules here? You want I should send you the link? You looking to get banned or something? Because just say the word and I'll have your account pulled and you sent to the nether region of cyber-space faster than you can say "member of the dissenters."

Fair enough bud?

Let's try to keep this discussion on track and leave out the personal rancor and follow the rules around here.

First of all, the USA boycotted the 1980 games in Moscow, because of the USSR's military foray into Afghanistan. What did it achieve? Nothing. The war in Afghanistan dragged on til 1989 before the Soviets pulled out...

In 1979, NBC paid $100m for the television rights for the Moscow games, the highest amount of money ever paid at that time for Olympic television rights. But NBC had insurance, so when the USA pulled out, NBC got their money back and the USSR kept the cash.

And another thing you don't realise (obviously):

40% of all advertising money, television rights money and corporate sponsorship actually goes to the IOC...that's the International Olympic Committee, so a boycott will probably hurt the IOC more than China.

Another thing you don't know: 75% of all tickets to the Olympic are reserved for Chinese nationals. These Olympic Games are more geared towards showing the achievements of the CPC to the Chinese people than attracting foreign tourists. The Olympics are more important to the Chinese Goverment as a propaganda statement to their own people.

You know, buisness doesn't care. The big corporations like McDonalds don't care about Tibet. They're not going to risk losing a foot in the door to one of the world's largest consumer markets. With all that money at stake. Their sponsorship of the Beijing games is also more about getting their message across in China.

You are missing the point, obviously. China regards these Olympics as a political advertisement for their nation. They as always are hoping to shine a rosey picture on life in China and all of their 'new free-market policies.' Unfortunatly however China at it's heart is still the same oppressive regime that has murdered thousands and thousand of it's own people under the flag of Marxism. It matters not wether the financial impact on the games is significant to me. The psychological affect on the powers that be there will me huge. For example; remember last year when the Dali Lama was invited to Washington D.C. and given special recognition by President Bush? That one small act rattled the Chinese government's cage nearly as much as sending an aircraft carrier of of their coastline.

You have to understand the China sees nearly all actions and opinions which are in contrast to their stated policies in Tibet, Tiawan and other regions as a direct assault on China's soverienty. Like I said, we are not likely to ever willfully use militiary power to oppsose China and it's brutal regime. But at least we can destroy them in the world of ideas and the very thought of freedom and liberty.

Boycott the Olympics and show your support for Tibet. Show your support for Liberty and Democracy both of which do not exist in China.

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Oh please :D

There aint nothing Communist about China anymore, except for the name of the ruling party. China is almost completely capitalist, a free-wheeling market economy. There's just no democracy.

But I'm sure the USA would not like to be economically subserviant to China, the way Britain is to America.

Well im not as inform as you are in China Goverment, there still are some things there that i don't agree with. And yes the whole point is to be the money capital of the world. With jobs leaving america, we have to make sure money is coming back.

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You are missing the point, obviously. China regards these Olympics as a political advertisement for their nation. They as always are hoping to shine a rosey picture on life in China and all of their 'new free-market policies.' Unfortunatly however China at it's heart is still the same oppressive regime that has murdered thousands and thousand of it's own people under the flag of Marxism. It matters not wether the financial impact on the games is significant to me. The psychological affect on the powers that be there will me huge. For example; remember last year when the Dali Lama was invited to Washington D.C. and given special recognition by President Bush? That one small act rattled the Chinese government's cage nearly as much as sending an aircraft carrier of of their coastline.

You have to understand the China sees nearly all actions and opinions which are in contrast to their stated policies in Tibet, Tiawan and other regions as a direct assault on China's soverienty. Like I said, we are not likely to ever willfully use militiary power to oppsose China and it's brutal regime. But at least we can destroy them in the world of ideas and the very thought of freedom and liberty.

Boycott the Olympics and show your support for Tibet. Show your support for Liberty and Democracy both of which do not exist in China.

All around.. very well said! :thumbsup:

Cheers, Delbert! :beer:

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Well im not as inform as you are in China Goverment, there still are some things there that i don't agree with. And yes the whole point is to be the money capital of the world. With jobs leaving america, we have to make sure money is coming back.

Maybe the best thing would be to whip their asses in all the events. You know how they hate to 'lose face'.

:D

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All around.. very well said! :thumbsup:

Cheers, Delbert! :beer:

Isn't it funny how when it comes down to brass tacks we Americans all know what it means to be free. And wether or not we are conservatives or liberals, christian or other, we all know bare naked oppression when we see it. And I for one am confident that with our backs up against the wall you would see wild eyed Obama loving liberals and rapid conservative hawks like me standing toe to toe against a regime like China. And I think it's important that other people here on this forum know that WE AMERICANS are like that despite our many differences.

But of course just boycotting and speaking out is the first step and the correct thing to do right now. We can't put an athelete's personal goals above the life and death struggles that people in China go through everyday. For God's sake that is just about as pathetic as denying the Nazi holocaust. Why people don't get that simple fact is beyond me.

Cheers to you Hermit... you stand up guy!

Del

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Isn't it funny how when it comes down to brass tacks we Americans all know what it means to be free. And wether or not we are conservatives or liberals, christian or other, we all know bare naked oppression when we see it. And I for one am confident that with our backs up against the wall you would see wild eyed Obama loving liberals and rapid conservative hawks like me standing toe to toe against a regime like China. And I think it's important that other people here on this forum know that WE AMERICANS are like that despite our many differences.

But of course just boycotting and speaking out is the first step and the correct thing to do right now. We can't put an athelete's personal goals above the life and death struggles that people in China go through everyday. For God's sake that is just about as pathetic as denying the Nazi holocaust. Why people don't get that simple fact is beyond me.

Cheers to you Hermit... you stand up guy!

Del

And wearing T-shirts!

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Me in a Free Tibet shirt. (OK, you gotta look close.)

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Isn't it funny how when it comes down to brass tacks we Americans all know what it means to be free. And wether or not we are conservatives or liberals, christian or other, we all know bare naked oppression when we see it. And I for one am confident that with our backs up against the wall you would see wild eyed Obama loving liberals and rapid conservative hawks like me standing toe to toe against a regime like China. And I think it's important that other people here on this forum know that WE AMERICANS are like that despite our many differences.

But of course just boycotting and speaking out is the first step and the correct thing to do right now. We can't put an athelete's personal goals above the life and death struggles that people in China go through everyday. For God's sake that is just about as pathetic as denying the Nazi holocaust. Why people don't get that simple fact is beyond me.

Cheers to you Hermit... you stand up guy!

Del

Again,.. very well said, Del. :thumbsup:

Cheers to you too, brother! :beer:

I will add the caveat though that we should not deign to think that non-'WE AMERICANS' are any less able to recognize bare naked oppression when they see it, nor are they any less able to appreciate freedom than we are, nor do they value freedom any less than we do. In the cause of Tibet.. and the cause of oppressed peoples everywhere.. along with the "wild eyed Obama loving liberals and rapid conservative hawks like me standing toe to toe against a regime like China", we should open our arms to anyone.. despite our many differences.. who holds freedom as the highest principle and invite them to stand side by side with us in this cause and in causes like it. This particular cause is not an America vs China issue, this a Freedom vs Oppression issue; this is a Humanitarian vs Despotism issue; this is a World Community vs Chinese Regime issue; this is Freedom for Tibet issue.. this is a Save the Tibetan Culture From Genocide issue!

:hippy:

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Most people forget that China was largely behind the US stalemate in the Korean Conflict 1950-53. US and allied forces, under the auspices of the UN, had driven the Nork Korean forces all the way to the Yalu River, the border between China and NK. Almost immediately, hundreds of thousands of Chinese "volunteers" counter-attacked across the border and threw the "allies" back. China never admitted involvement, saying only that volunteers had joined NK forces to "help them". We were pushed back to roughly the 38th Parallel, where the lines have been relativelly unchanged since 1953.

Also, most people like to forget that the real player during the Vietnam "conflict" was of course, China. What else was stopping us from heading north across the DMZ and generally flattening Hanoi? Oh, I would profer a little scenario called "nuclear conflict" between China and U.S.

In fairness, I liken this theoretic scenario: What if China went to war with (gulp) Mexico! Not likely, obviously, but imaginge if Chinese troops or weapons were rapidly advancing towards Tijuana (spelling incorrect?)...wouldn't it make sense that the US would be, ugh, freaking-the-fuck-out!

My whole rambling point being that China wants to (obviously) further their agenda, which in this case so happens to be, uh, communism...I truly believe that this whole free market "experiment" for the communist party is to see if they cant beat us at our own game. Hmmm, let me see. Let's take a chinese farm collective who generally earn their "income" from the 3 hots and a cot they receive at the end of a productive day! Now lets pit them against say, an American or British worker who earns say, 10 dollars an hour (and that's a low wage these days). Who do you think is going to win that match-up? It costs the American business how many workers it utilizes times, say, 10 bucks an hour per employee. Now take that sum and pit it against the number of comparable workers it takes to accomplish the same relative tasks. Now multiply how many workers the Chinese use in this theoretical situation and multiply their amount of workers times 3 bowls of rice/Top Raman. No matter how you slice or dice it, the "free" worker who by the way, lives and works in a true democracy is getting screwed by the Chinese govt who continues, like alway, to want the best of both worlds. True capitalism and communism dont work together for the same common goal. One is for the greater good of the capitalist and the other is for the common good of the "whole". These seem, to me at least, irreconcilable.

To boycott the Olympics would just be the start. I would personally boycott them just for the simple fact that "sports" is a fucking game! Sports have never eliminated poverty, aids, homelessness, genocide, etc, etc, etc...the list could go on ad-infintum. It has been said that sports, the arts, religion is the drug of the masses. Something to let you escape from your reality instead of doing something positive to help change the "status quo".

As long as we look to "competitive competiions" to "bring us together" we are perpetuating the very illusion we are trying to dispel.

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