FREE TIBET ! !

[wanna be drummer]

It's still a dictatorship though. IMHO all that has changed with the party is , they've realized that there is a whole lot more money to be made in a so called, free market system. Hell, they can even alow a little bit of the extra cash to filtre into general population. I hope I'm wrong, but personally I think we're being led down the garden path on this one. I can't see how you can have a true free market system without a true democracy It still boils down to absolute power with these guy's and we all know that absolute power corrupts , absolutely. Hopefully they are on the correct path but I just don't trust they're intentions or they're patience at this point in time

What's gonna happen?

Revolution

[wanna be drummer]

Socialism and Communism are also economic/social models, but there is not economy without politics, and there is not politics without economy, it's like chicken and egg, there is no one without the other...

I agree with you strongly. But I think people get too caught up in the economy of countries. It's the government that is usually screwed up. China's a prime example. It's got a jacked up government, that decided to go a little capitalist. The government is still bad. Even if it became Socialist, I think the Chinese government would treat its people like dog shit.

Or you look at Nazi Germany. Its government was (obviously) one of the most brutal and violent regimes the world has come to know. But its economic policies worked surprisingly well (for non-Jewish Germans of course). It wasn't its form of economy that needed to be stopped, it was the government itself.

[ally]

What's gonna happen?

Revolution

Possibly or/and expantion. I'm not sure that they are in a position to handle a major downturn in the economy. If that happens then, look out. Again, I hope I'm wrong about this

[wanna be drummer]

IMO they'll have a revolution within 10-15 years. Expansion...well I don't know. What are they gonna annex? Mongolia? Vietnam? Japan?

I think they're smart enough to mind their own territory, but methinks the people don't like having the ability to buy everything from Wal-Mart, and not be able to vote for anything but the Communist Party. It's starting to make people already. I hope I'm wrong as well...but something needs to be done. Tianamen Square was just the beginning. China needs more heroes

[ally]

IMO they'll have a revolution within 10-15 years. Expansion...well I don't know. What are they gonna annex? Mongolia? Vietnam? Japan?

I think they're smart enough to mind their own territory, but methinks the people don't like having the ability to buy everything from Wal-Mart, and not be able to vote for anything but the Communist Party. It's starting to make people already. I hope I'm wrong as well...but something needs to be done. Tianamen Square was just the beginning. China needs more heroes

I can agree with that. Seems to me they've put the cart before the horse. Free market's should benifit the people and the Chinese government has no history of doing so. Let's hope they do get it together at some point. Untill then I'll be hopeful but, guarded

[GioBrasil]

I can agree with that. Seems to me they've put the cart before the horse. Free market's should benifit the people and the Chinese government has no history of doing so. Let's hope they do get it together at some point. Untill then I'll be hopeful but, guarded

The question is, WTF means "free market"?

If this axis of capitalistic logical is so good (at least since Adam Smith), why USA, the biggest country of "free market", needs, sometimes, the govt. hand to save its economy, for example?

[wanna be drummer]

The question is, WTF means "free market"?

If this axis of capitalistic logical is so good (at least since Adam Smith), why USA, the biggest country of "free market", needs, sometimes, the govt. hand to save its economy, for example?

Its also the one jacking it up. It has to reverse its mistakes

[dragster]

Communism may have died but the Party and it's power brokers are sadly still alive and kicking. Horse of a different colour IMO

Yeah, but it's not even called Communism anymore.....I have the feeling many peeps love to bash the word Communism more than the contents......go figure :)

[wanna be drummer]

Yeah, but it's not even called Communism anymore.....I have the feeling many peeps love to bash the word Communism more than the contents......go figure :)

People bash Communism because it's never worked...ever

Nowhere on the planet has a Communist Revolution worked out. Thats why everyone laughs at it.

One could argue Cuba is somewhat successful but Cuba isn't even Communist really. In Communism a family isn't supposed to dominate politics...but then whats with the Castros?

[dragster]

People bash Communism because it's never worked...ever

Nowhere on the planet has a Communist Revolution worked out. Thats why everyone laughs at it.

One could argue Cuba is somewhat successful but Cuba isn't even Communist really. In Communism a family isn't supposed to dominate politics...but then whats with the Castros?

I won't get dragged into a political debate here....EVER! . If you notice the other politically (un)correct threads here on the forum, NO-ONE has ever managed to drag me into one....it's hopeless with me!! . Having said that, actually they bash Communism without ever having understood it :). Only a madman would not agree that nowhere in the world has it worked out...true! ........BUT neither has the more warmongering RIGHT-WING Fascism......and, if you may: the bloodiest wars on the planet, WWI and WW II, were caused ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY by MORONIC RIGHT-WING ideals.....NEVER has such a bloody planetary war been started by a "Communist" country.....or am I wrong??...hmmmmmmmmmm???! . Unless we get rid of those ideals....no matter how moderate they might SEEM....we will all be in DFEEP trouble or if you like, history repeating!

Robert.

[keepitcoolinbaby]

I won't get dragged into a political debate here....EVER! . If you notice the other politically (un)correct threads here on the forum, NO-ONE has ever managed to drag me into one....it's hopeless with me!! . Having said that, actually they bash Communism without ever having understood it :). Only a madman would not agree that nowhere in the world has it worked out...true! ........BUT neither has the more warmongering RIGHT-WING Fascism......and, if you may: the bloodiest wars on the planet, WWI and WW II, were caused ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY by MORONIC RIGHT-WING ideals.....NEVER has such a bloody planetary war been started by a "Communist" country.....or am I wrong??...hmmmmmmmmmm???! . Unless we get rid of those ideals....no matter how moderate they might SEEM....we will all be in DFEEP trouble or if you like, history repeating!

Robert.

Your biggest mistake is thinking history repeats itself. If it werent for England and other countries during WWII you would have a hard German accent instead of that cute little Aussie one. Plus every time you saw a mustache you'd be yelling "Hi Hitler."

Because of opines such as yours, being whatever the f@@k it is you believe in, there will never be any one true religion or government it the world.

[wanna be drummer]

I won't get dragged into a political debate here....EVER! . If you notice the other politically (un)correct threads here on the forum, NO-ONE has ever managed to drag me into one....it's hopeless with me!! . Having said that, actually they bash Communism without ever having understood it :). Only a madman would not agree that nowhere in the world has it worked out...true! ........BUT neither has the more warmongering RIGHT-WING Fascism......and, if you may: the bloodiest wars on the planet, WWI and WW II, were caused ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY by MORONIC RIGHT-WING ideals.....NEVER has such a bloody planetary war been started by a "Communist" country.....or am I wrong??...hmmmmmmmmmm???! . Unless we get rid of those ideals....no matter how moderate they might SEEM....we will all be in DFEEP trouble or if you like, history repeating!

Robert.

Of course Fascism has never worked. I'm not arguing it has.

More than plenty wars and deaths have been casused at the hands of a Communist country. Hell, look at all the violent Marxist revolts that have taken place in the world. The only reason the Communists haven't started a world war is because they haven't had the oppurtunity. Russia and China hated each other, and thus wouldn't team up against the West (Mao once argued that him and Stalin could beat the US, and Stalin never took him seriously from that point forward).

WWI was based on extreme nationalism and of course, imperialism/colonialism. The latter are not exactly conservative. Also, any history book will tell you that from the French Revolution and Napoleon on, Euopre began taking major liberal strides. More power was being given to the people, less of it in the hands of monarchs. There were leftist revolts in Franch (as mentioned), Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. Britain voluntarily became more liberal to avoid a major conflict (thank you Ben Disraeli). Point being, Europe was actually becoming more liberal and leaving its conservative roots behind. Marxism and classical liberalism and liberalism was beginning to make an impact on the continent, clear as day.

World War I started because Austria and Russia couldn't keep their hands off the Balkans. Austria allied itself with Germany, hoping to deal with the situation, while France and Britain came to Russias aid. Italy and the Ottoman Empire soon rushed to join the German/Austrian forces. Then you had the arms race. Then Archduke Ferdinand was assassniated. This is one of the major sparks.

Where in those causes are you seeing "MORONIC RIGHT-WING IDEALS?"

Benito Mussolini and Hitler were both right-wing in terms of social matters, not however, were they right-wing in economic issues, so Fascism is difficult to place on the political spectrum. World War II started as a war to restore the honor of Germany/Italy and for Japan to begin expansion. I guess I don't see where these right-wing ideals are playing out..neither war was over the political spectrum, nor were the ideals (colonialism, expansion, etc.) were truly as right-wing as you say.

Care to elaborate?

[keepitcoolinbaby]

Of course Fascism has never worked. I'm not arguing it has.

More than plenty wars and deaths have been casused at the hands of a Communist country. Hell, look at all the violent Marxist revolts that have taken place in the world. The only reason the Communists haven't started a world war is because they haven't had the oppurtunity. Russia and China hated each other, and thus wouldn't team up against the West (Mao once argued that him and Stalin could beat the US, and Stalin never took him seriously from that point forward).

WWI was based on extreme nationalism and of course, imperialism/colonialism. The latter are not exactly conservative. Also, any history book will tell you that from the French Revolution and Napoleon on, Euopre began taking major liberal strides. More power was being given to the people, less of it in the hands of monarchs. There were leftist revolts in Franch (as mentioned), Greece, Italy, Spain, etc. Britain voluntarily became more liberal to avoid a major conflict (thank you Ben Disraeli). Point being, Europe was actually becoming more liberal and leaving its conservative roots behind. Marxism and classical liberalism and liberalism was beginning to make an impact on the continent, clear as day.

World War I started because Austria and Russia couldn't keep their hands off the Balkans. Austria allied itself with Germany, hoping to deal with the situation, while France and Britain came to Russias aid. Italy and the Ottoman Empire soon rushed to join the German/Austrian forces. Then you had the arms race. Then Archduke Ferdinand was assassniated. This is one of the major sparks.

Where in those causes are you seeing "MORONIC RIGHT-WING IDEALS?"

Benito Mussolini and Hitler were both right-wing in terms of social matters, not however, were they right-wing in economic issues, so Fascism is difficult to place on the political spectrum. World War II started as a war to restore the honor of Germany/Italy and for Japan to begin expansion. I guess I don't see where these right-wing ideals are playing out..neither war was over the political spectrum, nor were the ideals (colonialism, expansion, etc.) were truly as right-wing as you say.

Care to elaborate?

You cannot argue with a pascifist.

[wanna be drummer]

You cannot argue with a pascifist.

Who says he's a pacifist?

If he thinks Communism can work (as he seems to be dropping hints...which he'd spend more time on his posts with real ideas and words) then he'd believe that violent revolution is inevitable, for Marx and Engels did say so.

[The Rover]

London Police fear Olympic torch protests after China shootings in Tibet

Jane Macartney in Beijing and Ashling O’Connor

Fears that tomorrow’s Olympic flame relay through London could be disrupted by violence intensified after it emerged that eight Tibetan protesters had been shot dead by Chinese police.

Campaigners vowed to redouble their protests after hearing of the deaths yesterday during one of the bloodiest clashes since pro-independence protests began last month.

They said that they would target the Chinese Ambassador to London, Fu Ying, who is scheduled to take her turn carrying the torch as it makes its way from Wembley Arena to Canary Wharf. Last night the Chinese Embassy declined to confirm whether she would take part. A number of celebrities have withdrawn from the event or made themselves unavailable in protest at China’s heavy-handed crackdown on Tibetan protesters who are demanding independence.

Police fear that there will be clashes between Tibetan demonstrators, who plan to gather at strategic points along the 31-mile route, and Chinese students, who are being mobilised to defend China’s stance.

Chinese police shoot dead eight Tibet protesters

Protesters aim to snatch torch in Olympic parade

Tensions are likely to be high following the latest clashes. Chinese paramilitary police opened fire on a protest by Tibetan monks and villagers in Sichuan province, near the border with Tibet. The state-run Chinese media said that the police used force as a last resort.

Witnesses said that the clash, in which dozens were wounded, erupted after an inspection team entered the ancient monastery trying to confiscate pictures of the Dalai Lama. As many as 1,000 paramilitary police were deployed. The dead were said to include a 27-year-old monk and two women.

Tomorrow’s torch relay, part of an 85,000-mile global tour before the Beijing Games, is expected to draw more than 80,000 spectators.

Gordon Brown is due to have his photograph taken with the torch in front of No 10.

[Del Zeppnile]

Yeah, but it's not even called Communism anymore.....I have the feeling many peeps love to bash the word Communism more than the contents......go figure :)

I'm sure I could bash the "contents" if you like.

DEATHS UNDER COMMUNISM

20 million in the Soviet Union

65 million in the People's Republic of China

1 million in Vietnam

2 million in North Korea

2 million in Cambodia

1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe

150,000 in Latin America

1.7 million in Africa

1.5 million in Afghanistan

10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international communist movement and communist parties not in power

I won't get dragged into a political debate here....EVER! . If you notice the other politically (un)correct threads here on the forum, NO-ONE has ever managed to drag me into one....it's hopeless with me!! . Having said that, actually they bash Communism without ever having understood it :). Only a madman would not agree that nowhere in the world has it worked out...true! ........BUT neither has the more warmongering RIGHT-WING Fascism......and, if you may: the bloodiest wars on the planet, WWI and WW II, were caused ONLY and EXCLUSIVELY by MORONIC RIGHT-WING ideals.....NEVER has such a bloody planetary war been started by a "Communist" country.....or am I wrong??...hmmmmmmmmmm???! . Unless we get rid of those ideals....no matter how moderate they might SEEM....we will all be in DFEEP trouble or if you like, history repeating!

Robert.

Your pretty much wrong on the communism part anyway. And besides, as bad as the murders under Facism were, they still pale in numbers when compared to the RED Chinese and Stalinist Russia.

[ally]

Like i said earlier. They've got the cart before the horse. Changing your name does not absolve you of your past history. People can call the Chinese government anything they want. I'll still call them criminals

[Gainsbarre]

And we don't care what you think about it. It's not like we wake up in the morning and wonder how you are going to feel about our national policy.

But that's what really gets to you doesn't it?

Yes your 'national' policy that has implications for the rest of the world. I guess it's that old thing about the world being your backyard...

Anyway, no I don't care about your foreign policy...

You might choose to, though...

You can draft whatever foreign policy you like, it just might come back to bite you on the ass, September 11, for example...

[keepitcoolinbaby]

Yes your 'national' policy that has implications for the rest of the world. I guess it's that old thing about the world being your backyard...

Anyway, no I don't care about your foreign policy...

You might choose to, though...

You can draft whatever foreign policy you like, it just might come back to bite you on the ass, September 11, for example...

I dont trust men who will not stand up for freedom or democracy. These are the guys who will toss their women and kids to the dogs first sign of trouble.

Be a man, get a haircut and take a stand on something concrete.

[dragster]

Your pretty much wrong on the communism part anyway. And besides, as bad as the murders under Facism were, they still pale in numbers when compared to the RED Chinese and Stalinist Russia

Try telling that one to the Jews!!

[dragster]

People can call the Chinese government anything they want. I'll still call them criminals

OK.....I CALL 'EM RIGHT-WING MORONIC FASCIST PIGS...IS THAT OK??! :)

[wanna be drummer]

Try telling that one to the Jews!!

That isn't near what Communists have done

[dragster]

as bad as the murders under Facism were, they still pale in numbers when compared to the RED Chinese and Stalinist Russia.

The Holocaust (from the Greek ὁλόκαυστον (holókauston): holos, "completely" and kaustos, "burnt"), also known as Ha-Shoah (Hebrew: השואה), Churben (Yiddish: חורבן), is the term generally used to describe the genocide of approximately six million European Jews during World War II, as part of a program of deliberate extermination planned and executed by the National Socialist regime in Germany led by Adolf Hitler.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust

[dragster]

6 million!

[eternal light]

According to information published by the Tibetan Center on Human Rights and Democracy (TCHRD), 15 Tibetan monks were detained on 10 March for staging a peaceful demonstration in Barkhor, Lhasa, the capital of Tibetan Autonomous Region. There is no information of their current whereabouts or of any charges brought against them. They are at high risk of torture and other ill-treatment.

On Monday 10 March hundreds of monks began a march from Drepung Monastery towards Barkhor. Another group, which included the 15 monks now in detention, began their march from Sera Monastery, but were soon detained. The monks had been demanding that the government ease a "patriotic re-education" campaign which forces them to denounce the Dalai Lama and subjects them to government propaganda.

Protests began in other monasteries in support of those detained. Demonstrations also involving lay people then followed across Lhasa, in other parts of Tibet and in areas of the neighboring provinces of Qinghai, Gansu and Sichuan with large populations of Tibetans. On Friday the protests became violent, with some protesters specifically targeting and setting fire to Chinese-owned businesses and attacking people from other ethnic groups.

The Chinese authorities urged the protesters to give themselves in by Monday 17 March at midnight, Beijing Time, and promised that those who did would be treated leniently. As of today, the streets of Lhasa were reported to be largely quiet and empty.

Police and soldiers are reported to be conducting house to house sweeps in Lhasa. Some eyewitnesses have reported individuals being dragged from their homes. There continue to be reports of unrest in neighboring Sichuan and Gansu provinces. There are also reports that some Chinese police and soldiers have used excessive force, including lethal force, against Tibetan demonstrators in Lhasa and elsewhere. With large numbers of troops now deployed in the region further human rights violations may be committed.

The Chinese authorities have imposed a near-total block on information leaving Tibet and surrounding areas. Permits for journalists to enter Tibet were stopped from 12 March. Foreign journalists have been barred or removed from districts in Gansu, Sichuan and Qinghai provinces, where the unrest has spread.

The Chinese government has the right and duty to defend all individuals and property from violence. At the same time international law requires that the authorities handle such crises in ways that uphold fundamental human rights and the principles of necessity and proportionality in the use of force. For example, firearms should only be discharged as a last resort and when lives are at risk.

TCHRD has obtained pictures of fourteen of the detained monks. The portraits are on their website at: www.tchrd.org/press.

SPEAK OUT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS!

Please send politely worded letters to the Chinese authorities, urging them to:

release the 15 monks named below, as well as all others detained for peacefully exercising their right to freedom of expression, association and assembly;

fully account for all those detained during the demonstrations, ensuring they are not tortured or otherwise ill-treated, have access to lawyers and medical care, are brought promptly before an independent court and are able to challenge their detention;

ensure that those prosecuted are charged with internationally recognizable offenses and tried in proceedings which meet international fair trial standards;

allow full and unimpeded access to Tibet and other Tibetan areas to journalists and other independent observers

allow independent UN investigation into the events of the last week, including full access to scenes of confrontation, eye-witnesses, and detainees, and allow similar access to independent observers, including journalists and human rights NGOs.

Although Urgent Actions do not typically include sample letters, because this is a Featured Urgent Action, we have provided a sample letter DOC | PDF but please be encouraged to add your own thoughts. You can also print the complete Urgent Action Sheet: PDF

15 TIBETAN MONKS DETAINED

Samten (m), aged 17, Lungkar Monastery, Qinghai Province

Trulku Tenpa Rigsang, (m), aged 26, Lungkar Monastery, Qinghai Province

Gelek Pel (m) aged 32 Lungkar Monastery, Qinghai Province

Lobsang (m) aged 15, Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Lobsang Thukjey (m), aged 19 Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Tsultrim Palden (m), aged 20 Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Lobsher (m), aged 20 Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Phurden, (m), aged 22 Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Thupdon (m), aged 24 Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Lobsang Ngodup (m), aged 29 Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Lodoe (m), aged 30 Onpo Monastery, Sichuan Province

Thupwang (m), aged 30, Darthang Monastery

Pema Garwang (m), aged 30, Darthang Monastery

Tsegyam (m), aged 22, Kashi Monastery

Soepa (m), aged 30, Mangye Monastery

WRITE TO:

President of the People's Republic of China

HU Jintao Guojia Zhuxi

The State Council General Office

2 Fuyoujie, Xichengqu

Beijingshi 100017

PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Salutation: Your Excellency

Chairman of the Tibet Autonomous Regional People's Government

Qiangba PUNCOG Zhuren

Xizang Zizhiqu Renmin Zhengfu

1 Kang'angdonglu

Lasashi 850000, Xizang Zizhiqu

PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Salutation: Dear Chairman

Minister of Public Security of the People's Republic of China

MENG Jianzhu Buzhang

Gong'anbu

14 Dongchang'anjie

Dongchengqu, Beijingshi 100741

PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Fax: 011 86 10 63099216 (it may be difficult to get through, please keep trying)

Salutation: Your Excellency

COPIES TO:

Mayor of Lasa Municipal People's Government Tibet Autonomous Region

LOBSANG Gyaincain Shizhang

Lasashi Zizhiqu Renmin Zhengfu

16 Jinjulu, Lasashi 850000, Xizang Zizhiqu

PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA

Salutation: Dear Mayor

Ambassador Wen Zhong Zhou

Embassy of the People's Republic of China

2300 Connecticut Avenue NW

Washington, D.C. 20008

Fax: 1 202 745 7473

PLEASE SEND APPEALS IMMEDIATELY. Check with the AIUSA Urgent Action office at uan@aiusa.org if sending appeals after 29 April 2008.

Tibetan Monks Arrested for Peaceful Protest