What Do You Guys Believe Exists?

[JohnOsbourne]

1 hour ago, 1975NQ said:

This is a bit random, but have you head of Victor Davis Hanson? I have a feeling you might enjoy his work and viewpoints (Bob, if you're reading, I think you'd like him too). Here's an interview of him on YT. It's pretty long, but there are others online that are shorter. I agree with just about everything he says and think he'd be a huge bestseller if he could keep politics out of his books. Sharp, sharp guy. 

https://youtu.be/UKe_U6QSpi4

 

Sure, he's written some good stuff.  He's kind of a recovering neocon, still supports our stupid wars in the Middle East.  But, he does seem to be slowly coming around, so better late than never.  Like many on the mainstream right, he's definitely been "red-pilled" by the government response (world-wide) to covid and the rise of woke capitalism.

[JohnOsbourne]

1 hour ago, 1975NQ said:

This is a bit random, but have you head of Victor Davis Hanson? I have a feeling you might enjoy his work and viewpoints (Bob, if you're reading, I think you'd like him too). Here's an interview of him on YT. It's pretty long, but there are others online that are shorter. I agree with just about everything he says and think he'd be a huge bestseller if he could keep politics out of his books. Sharp, sharp guy. 

https://youtu.be/UKe_U6QSpi4

 

He's actually been writing good stuff for the Independent Institute, a libertarian think-tank run by Robert Higgs, author of the seminal Crisis and Leviathan, documenting how government power grows during crises (and is never relinquished):

Is America Heading for a Systems Collapse?: News: The Independent Institute

[1975NQ]

1 minute ago, JohnOsbourne said:

He's actually been writing good stuff for the Independent Institute, a libertarian think-tank run by Robert Higgs, author of the seminal Crisis and Leviathan, documenting how government power grows during crises (and is never relinquished):

Is America Heading for a Systems Collapse?: News: The Independent Institute

Very cool! I'll have to check that out. And yeah, I don't know if he's a recovering neocon or just hiding it better to reach a wider audience lol. He does a lot of apologizing for Trump in his books which is why I decided to not buy/read them. I saw some of his interviews on YT and was super impressed, but when I read some reviews on his books, I found out about the Trump stuff. It sounds like he can't help himself lol. I just wanted to read a good book without any political agenda attached. But a free article? Yeah, I'll read that for sure. 🙂

[1975NQ]

22 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

He's actually been writing good stuff for the Independent Institute, a libertarian think-tank run by Robert Higgs, author of the seminal Crisis and Leviathan, documenting how government power grows during crises (and is never relinquished):

Is America Heading for a Systems Collapse?: News: The Independent Institute

Just read the article. He's firmly entrenched with the right, that's for sure. Still, he has a lot of relevant things to say. I was gonna say something like he needs to dial down the rhetoric, but I think he's playing to his audience so can't find fault with that. Salesmen gonna sell. This passage in particular made me chuckle:

"Between 2009 and 2016, a once relatively stable Greece nearly became a Third World country. So did Great Britain in its socialist days of the 1970s. "

Great Britain had serious problems in the mid to late 70's - basically 74 - 83ish. But nearly becoming a Third World country? That's just crazy talk. The unemployment rate was under 6% for crying out loud. Lots of conflict, violence, polarization, "winter of discontent", for sure. But jeez he is really reaching with that one. 

The stuff he says regarding Cali (in other interviews and articles) really hits home as I've lived here since I was 13 and seen it change so much over the decades.

[Plant77]

On 1/20/2022 at 7:41 PM, 1975NQ said:

Just read the article. He's firmly entrenched with the right, that's for sure. Still, he has a lot of relevant things to say. I was gonna say something like he needs to dial down the rhetoric, but I think he's playing to his audience so can't find fault with that. Salesmen gonna sell. This passage in particular made me chuckle:

"Between 2009 and 2016, a once relatively stable Greece nearly became a Third World country. So did Great Britain in its socialist days of the 1970s. "

Great Britain had serious problems in the mid to late 70's - basically 74 - 83ish. But nearly becoming a Third World country? That's just crazy talk. The unemployment rate was under 6% for crying out loud. Lots of conflict, violence, polarization, "winter of discontent", for sure. But jeez he is really reaching with that one. 

The stuff he says regarding Cali (in other interviews and articles) really hits home as I've lived here since I was 13 and seen it change so much over the decades.

I am a life long Cali Bay Area native. We certainly have seen the changes. The interesting thing I took from the article was that the once revered agencies that have lost public support in my estimation was completely torn apart from the previous administration. I have never seen or heard any other administration prior to his that simply went against them, told as many blatant lies, and actively tried to tear them down. The other was the reference to jailing opposition/opponents. I have also never heard any other political party, President, or presidential hopeful  in my 45 years have rallies where they start, with “ lock her up! Lock him up chant’s “. At least not any that I can remember. There is no doubt we are in the middle of some very trying times, neither party is innocent. But to just simply lay it at the feet of one or the other party is ridiculous, and incredibly naïve. Perhaps dangerous. As a proud American, I really hope that we can all do a little better, bridging some gaps, mending fences, and truly start looking at ways to help all of us. Not just the Red or Blue team/gang that someone wants to be identified with. It seems as if it has done a tremendous amount of damage. 
 

It’s awesome to have convictions, beliefs, and to want to see your ideas and agendas pushed forward, but to do so at the at the expense of others is just not a viable system. As an independent I personally want to see us have some growth, and elect people that are for all of us. Not one or the other. It’s destroying our way of life. Or maybe destroying what our country stood for. I will also say this Woke Generation is becoming or is beyond my ability to understand. I think that’s how I know I’m getting old. 
 

Cheers, and I enjoy your contributions to the site. Cool to read your thoughts on all kinds of shit/stuff. 

[1975NQ]

30 minutes ago, Plant77 said:

I am a life long Cali Bay Area native. We certainly have seen the changes. The interesting thing I took from the article was that the once revered agencies that have lost public support in my estimation was completely torn apart from the previous administration. I have never seen or heard any other administration prior to his that simply went against them, told as many blatant lies, and actively tried to tear them down. The other was the reference to jailing opposition/opponents. I have also never heard any other political party, President, or presidential hopeful  in my 45 years have rallies where they start, with “ lock her up! Lock him up chant’s “. At least not any that I can remember. There is no doubt we are in the middle of some very trying times, neither party is innocent. But to just simply lay it at the feet of one or the other party is ridiculous, and incredibly naïve. Perhaps dangerous. As a proud American, I really hope that we can all do a little better, bridging some gaps, mending fences, and truly start looking at ways to help all of us. Not just the Red or Blue team/gang that someone wants to be identified with. It seems as if it has done a tremendous amount of damage. 
 

It’s awesome to have convictions, beliefs, and to want to see your ideas and agendas pushed forward, but to do so at the at the expense of others is just not a viable system. As an independent I personally want to see us have some growth, and elect people that are for all of us. Not one or the other. It’s destroying our way of life. Or maybe destroying what our country stood for. I will also say this Woke Generation is becoming or is beyond my ability to understand. I think that’s how I know I’m getting old. 
 

Cheers, and I enjoy your contributions to the site. Cool to read your thoughts on all kinds of shit/stuff. 

Hi Plant77, good to hear from you. I think we're in agreement on the basics. Lifelong independent here, as well. When I mentioned his thoughts on Cali, it was more in reference to other interviews he's done, not the link John shared with me. Sorry for the confusion. Steering this away from anything political. he has some very legit things to say about the deterioration of the middle class and how Cali - especially the Bay Area - has turned into a feudal system. But yeah, because he attaches himself to the far right, it either devalues his argument (if you're someone who isn't aligned lol) or strengthens them (if you're someone who is),. Regardless of political affiliation, I think it's ok to take someone's ideas and absorb/assimilate them into your own processing mechanism without any emotional attachment to political ideology. I mean, I made a choice not to put money in his pocket, you know what I mean lol?

I def appreciate your respectful comments on here and like reading what you have to offer as well. We probably have a lot in common. I think most people are fed up with the woke bullshit haha. It's more touted in the Bay Area, NYC, etc ... but just go a tiny bit inland and you will find that most people are in full agreement! Even in the liberal hot spots, I think a lot of people agree it's out of hand but keep their mouths shut in social situations (unless that person is someone with zero filter like ME haha).

Have a great weekend, my friend. It's 64 degrees and sunny! Gotta love our winters out here 😛

Edited January 22, 2022 by 1975NQ

[JohnOsbourne]

It pure, delusional fantasy (it goes way beyond denial) to think that the collapse in trust of public institutions around the western world is because of Russian hackers or Trump's mean tweets.   The situation faced by the US and western Europe is exactly akin to the Soviet Union 30 years ago.  The system has failed, and pretending otherwise won't make the illusion keep going.

[BobDobbs]

1 hour ago, JohnOsbourne said:

It pure, delusional fantasy (it goes way beyond denial) to think that the collapse in trust of public institutions around the western world is because of Russian hackers or Trump's mean tweets.   The situation faced by the US and western Europe is exactly akin to the Soviet Union 30 years ago.  The system has failed, and pretending otherwise won't make the illusion keep going.

Oh FFS

 

[JohnOsbourne]

Since Neil Young made an ass of himself recently (see the covid vaccine thread), we might as well bump this one, the CIA infiltration of the counterculture:

Laurel Canyon | The Center for an Informed America

Laurel Canyon - David McGowan report (mygen.com)

[BobDobbs]

On 1/25/2022 at 7:42 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

Since Neil Young made an ass of himself recently (see the covid vaccine thread), we might as well bump this one, the CIA infiltration of the counterculture:

Laurel Canyon | The Center for an Informed America

Laurel Canyon - David McGowan report (mygen.com)

The CIA infiltrated every group at one point or another while the FBI was doing the same. Everyone bitches about it, while no one does anything about it.

Just continuous screaming to the wind, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, if it were not for my great Saviour J.R. Bob Dobbs who has shown me the divine path of Slack and Frop, I would be a Nihilist. Scuse me, Connie's calling 😉 

[1975NQ]

27 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

The CIA infiltrated every group at one point or another while the FBI was doing the same. Everyone bitches about it, while no one does anything about it.

Just continuous screaming to the wind, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, if it were not for my great Saviour J.R. Bob Dobbs who has shown me the divine path of Slack and Frop, I would be a Nihilist. Scuse me, Connie's calling 😉 

So THAT's where your name/avatar comes from. Weird, wild stuff. Just read an article on it. The two founders of The Church of the Subgenius "were fascinated with all kinds of extreme beliefs and outsider art. They bonded over a common love of the psychedelic music of Captain Beefheart." Ok, where do I sign up??? 😛

[1975NQ]

41 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

The CIA infiltrated every group at one point or another while the FBI was doing the same. Everyone bitches about it, while no one does anything about it.

Just continuous screaming to the wind, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, if it were not for my great Saviour J.R. Bob Dobbs who has shown me the divine path of Slack and Frop, I would be a Nihilist. Scuse me, Connie's calling 😉 

I gotta put that movie into the queue. Also, since that's of interest, and you're a fellow Kubrick nut, check out Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master if you haven't already seen it. The movie is both about Ron L. Hubbard as well as the director's love letter to Kubrick. There's Kubrickian stuff all over the place. It's a really nice tip of the hat from PTA to his hero (and his best movie imho).

[cryingbluerain]

On 1/24/2022 at 9:53 PM, JohnOsbourne said:

It pure, delusional fantasy (it goes way beyond denial) to think that the collapse in trust of public institutions around the western world is because of Russian hackers or Trump's mean tweets.   The situation faced by the US and western Europe is exactly akin to the Soviet Union 30 years ago.  The system has failed, and pretending otherwise won't make the illusion keep going.

Except people in the USSR were trying to escape tyranny while we are rushing right into it, damn the torpedoes full speed ahead.  

[BobDobbs]

10 hours ago, 1975NQ said:

I gotta put that movie into the queue. Also, since that's of interest, and you're a fellow Kubrick nut, check out Paul Thomas Anderson's The Master if you haven't already seen it. The movie is both about Ron L. Hubbard as well as the director's love letter to Kubrick. There's Kubrickian stuff all over the place. It's a really nice tip of the hat from PTA to his hero (and his best movie imho).

I love The Master, great movie. Supposedly, Scientologists assassinated PSH as a result of his participation in the movie as it was essentially a bio pick of L. Ron Hubbard. Not sold on the assassination part but damn PSH was IMO the greatest actor of our generation. Guy was clean for something like 20 years then BAM, dies from a heroin overdose.

[1975NQ]

1 hour ago, BobDobbs said:

I love The Master, great movie. Supposedly, Scientologists assassinated PSH as a result of his participation in the movie as it was essentially a bio pick of L. Ron Hubbard. Not sold on the assassination part but damn PSH was IMO the greatest actor of our generation. Guy was clean for something like 20 years then BAM, dies from a heroin overdose.

Yeah, it was really sad when he passed away. I agree, he was absolutely in the top tier of actors of our generation. I think his acting (and Joaquin's) in that movie is some of his best work. Regarding the assassination theory .. I wouldn't rule it out. It's really easy to take someone out if a person or org has the right resources. Sad, but true.  They're a bunch of crazy f--kers with a lot of money on the line (and dwindling power each year) so I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility at all. Same goes for Kubrick (tying this all back to conspiracy theory and the main topic of the thread lol) .. the technology to kill someone and make it look like a heart attack has been around since the 80s if not earlier. Didn't need to be a CIA play, just a group that had the resources to hire the right people for that kind of objective.

Kubrick having "underlying health problems" is dubious storytelling from what I've been able to piece together so far. There is seriously conflicting information on that subject out there. Warner Studios wanted a critical 20 minutes of film cut from the movie. Those 20 minutes showed some stuff happening at the mansion that was a little too questionable. Or, more accurately, WB were told by individuals we're not aware of, to make the changes. Kubrick told them to F right off. He had a sweetheart deal with the studio (now how did he swing that deal, I wonder) that said he had final say with any production questions over any film he made with them, period. He wouldn't budge. So, the film studio was stuck with his version. Except - he died less than 48 hours after his meeting with them. So, they got to make any changes they wanted. What a lucky break for them! He was killed. Just my opinion. Yes, it's a conspiracy theory, but to me it's not only plausible but the most likely thing that happened when you do all the math (lots of other factors I'm not touching on to avoid this post becoming a novel lol).  

Fun fact - Kubrick and the guy who invented the MKUltra program, Sidney Gottlieb, died on the exact same day of a heart attack. Crazy.

[BobDobbs]

5 hours ago, 1975NQ said:

Yeah, it was really sad when he passed away. I agree, he was absolutely in the top tier of actors of our generation. I think his acting (and Joaquin's) in that movie is some of his best work. Regarding the assassination theory .. I wouldn't rule it out. It's really easy to take someone out if a person or org has the right resources. Sad, but true.  They're a bunch of crazy f--kers with a lot of money on the line (and dwindling power each year) so I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility at all. Same goes for Kubrick (tying this all back to conspiracy theory and the main topic of the thread lol) .. the technology to kill someone and make it look like a heart attack has been around since the 80s if not earlier. Didn't need to be a CIA play, just a group that had the resources to hire the right people for that kind of objective.

Kubrick having "underlying health problems" is dubious storytelling from what I've been able to piece together so far. There is seriously conflicting information on that subject out there. Warner Studios wanted a critical 20 minutes of film cut from the movie. Those 20 minutes showed some stuff happening at the mansion that was a little too questionable. Or, more accurately, WB were told by individuals we're not aware of, to make the changes. Kubrick told them to F right off. He had a sweetheart deal with the studio (now how did he swing that deal, I wonder) that said he had final say with any production questions over any film he made with them, period. He wouldn't budge. So, the film studio was stuck with his version. Except - he died less than 48 hours after his meeting with them. So, they got to make any changes they wanted. What a lucky break for them! He was killed. Just my opinion. Yes, it's a conspiracy theory, but to me it's not only plausible but the most likely thing that happened when you do all the math (lots of other factors I'm not touching on to avoid this post becoming a novel lol).  

Fun fact - Kubrick and the guy who invented the MKUltra program, Sidney Gottlieb, died on the exact same day of a heart attack. Crazy.

That is pretty wild and I have heard most of that as well. I believe it was Kubrick's editor who came in after his death and made the requested edits. But to play devil's advocate, those cuts may have been necessary to ensure an R vs. NC-17 rating for release. Not saying that was the case but just say that hour of film had some seriously crazy, disturbing shit which would make a certain group look bad. So what? As a great man once said, "let those with eyes see and those with ears hear." The problem is very few people would understand such occult references even if shown and those that do would think Kubrick was just well versed in occult practices and the like and shrugged them off. I guess my big questions would be, what is the point of people with all the power in the world to engage in such activity? Just to get their kicks? It's not going to bring them greater power or wealth so what would be the point? I am sure there are some very powerful people who believe such practices and rituals can safeguard their power and position however from my own experiences with the occult and with rather questionable groups and practitioners in the past, most is 99% bullshit. The people who can actually affect change with these rituals need months of extremely intense focus with forces not to be trifled with and even then it's near impossible to pull off and even if successful it's always on a rather small scale anyway. I love all of Kubrick's movies BTW, not a stinker in the bunch.

There is the old mantra of the Wiccan, "you only get back what you put out and if your intent is ill will or negative, it will come back on the practitioner seven-fold." Such forces are not to be summoned and if they are only a fool thinks they can be controlled as those forces are never controlled, they control you, always.

On the positive front Scientology is suffering a pretty big decline in membership and revenue over the past decade due to exposure. I sincerely doubt it will survive another 20 years at this rate and good riddance.

[1975NQ]

1 hour ago, BobDobbs said:

That is pretty wild and I have heard most of that as well. I believe it was Kubrick's editor who came in after his death and made the requested edits. But to play devil's advocate, those cuts may have been necessary to ensure an R vs. NC-17 rating for release. Not saying that was the case but just say that hour of film had some seriously crazy, disturbing shit which would make a certain group look bad. So what? As a great man once said, "let those with eyes see and those with ears hear." The problem is very few people would understand such occult references even if shown and those that do would think Kubrick was just well versed in occult practices and the like and shrugged them off. I guess my big questions would be, what is the point of people with all the power in the world to engage in such activity? Just to get their kicks? It's not going to bring them greater power or wealth so what would be the point? I am sure there are some very powerful people who believe such practices and rituals can safeguard their power and position however from my own experiences with the occult and with rather questionable groups and practitioners in the past, most is 99% bullshit. The people who can actually affect change with these rituals need months of extremely intense focus with forces not to be trifled with and even then it's near impossible to pull off and even if successful it's always on a rather small scale anyway. I love all of Kubrick's movies BTW, not a stinker in the bunch.

There is the old mantra of the Wiccan, "you only get back what you put out and if your intent is ill will or negative, it will come back on the practitioner seven-fold." Such forces are not to be summoned and if they are only a fool thinks they can be controlled as those forces are never controlled, they control you, always.

On the positive front Scientology is suffering a pretty big decline in membership and revenue over the past decade due to exposure. I sincerely doubt it will survive another 20 years at this rate and good riddance.

All good points, for sure. They did the infamous CGI silliness for the mansion scenes (thankfully removed from current versions) to get the rating to drop to an R, it had nothing to do with what was cut out. Although, I'm sure the studio's official response if pressed would be to say exactly that - "we needed to shorten the length and keep it to an R rating". That's the thing with conspiracy theory speculation - we will just never know the truth. At least, not likely in our own lifetimes. I think some occult stuff may have been going on, as one of the main "keys" for the whole movie in terms of unlocking visual symbology has to do with the Freemasons, specifically their sacred tome (sarcasm) The 33 Degrees of the Scottish Rite.  A guy on reddit finally cracked the code last year and made a killer post about it, God bless him. 

However, if Kubrick was wacked (and I really think he was), I think it had more to do with him being a little too cutesy with the "powers that be". He basically let them know in his unedited film version that he was dropping hints - for posterity's sake - to the public at large about the mind control sex slave pedophilia bullshit that he witnessed with his own two eyes. There was already a huge amount of stories/disinformation/controversy out there regarding this stuff by that point in 1999 - and how some of these women were naming very, very powerful people with their stories. One could argue this was a plan he came up with back in the early 60s. Lolita (a movie about pedophiles) starts off with Peter Sellers (one of the pedos) rambling on about a party he was at and strange goings on, including one man on all fours acting as a table for others to do their dirty business (we see all this acted out in EWS mansion scene). Just my own theory.

But yeah, he's touching on all kinds of stuff in the movie from the Masons to Jungian archetypes to Wiccan (as you touch on) beliefs to Scientology ... it's exhaustive. That guy was one of a kind.

In terms of why rich, powerful people would engage in this evil shit  .. your guess is as good as mine. Scientologists certainly love their closeted actor ambassadors. They have those guys on a very tight leash indeed (i.e. threat of exposure). So, there's a hint at methodology right there - as far as any other groups or individuals hypothetically bringing in people they want to influence/control to their nasty little inner circle. If one witnesses pedophilia and does not report it, that person faces serious charges - maybe just as serious as those who perpetrated the act. They are now under your thumb. Ugh, just talking about this stuff is creeping me out. It's so damn fascinating but exposes (if true) so much ugliness.

And yeah, that is good news about Scientology! Kubrick would be happy about that, as he lost his daughter to it and she's still wrapped up in it to this day.

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by 1975NQ

[JohnOsbourne]

21 hours ago, BobDobbs said:

The CIA infiltrated every group at one point or another while the FBI was doing the same. Everyone bitches about it, while no one does anything about it.

Just continuous screaming to the wind, blah, blah, blah. Honestly, if it were not for my great Saviour J.R. Bob Dobbs who has shown me the divine path of Slack and Frop, I would be a Nihilist. Scuse me, Connie's calling 😉 

Not sure what you mean by "everyone bitches about it", I would say it's not generally known (even here) that the security organs of the western governments have controlled many groups typically regarded as "opposition".  So by posting about it, I am in fact "doing something about it".  But serious question:  what else would you suggest doing here?  Heading to the hills is a perfectly acceptable response.  Open confrontation with the US government (say) is ... less so, I'd hope you agree.

[BobDobbs]

1 hour ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Not sure what you mean by "everyone bitches about it", I would say it's not generally known (even here) that the security organs of the western governments have controlled many groups typically regarded as "opposition".  So by posting about it, I am in fact "doing something about it".  But serious question:  what else would you suggest doing here?  Heading to the hills is a perfectly acceptable response.  Open confrontation with the US government (say) is ... less so, I'd hope you agree.

I think the best disinfectant is sunlight, truth. All this shit needs to be taught in schools, warts and all because if the truth is hidden we are doomed to make the same mistakes. Teach about the bullshit crimes against the citizenry of this nation, from the Tuskegee Experiments to MKUltra, to COINTELPRO, to Iran-Contra, to Critical Race Theory. Teach all that shit side by side with the first truly modern representative government since the Roman Republic, freeing the slaves and fighting a just war over the issue, spearheading the industrial revolution and some of the greatest discoveries in history. There is just as much, if not more good to talk about as bad but when you leave the bad out you cannot present a true picture and in fact, you rob the past of its accomplishments and what we have overcome to get where we are. Any fool can build on the success of the past, its when we overcome and build anew that we become visionaries and hero's.

[Plant77]

5 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

I think the best disinfectant is sunlight, truth. All this shit needs to be taught in schools, warts and all because if the truth is hidden we are doomed to make the same mistakes. Teach about the bullshit crimes against the citizenry of this nation, from the Tuskegee Experiments to MKUltra, to COINTELPRO, to Iran-Contra, to Critical Race Theory. Teach all that shit side by side with the first truly modern representative government since the Roman Republic, freeing the slaves and fighting a just war over the issue, spearheading the industrial revolution and some of the greatest discoveries in history. There is just as much, if not more good to talk about as bad but when you leave the bad out you cannot present a true picture and in fact, you rob the past of its accomplishments and what we have overcome to get where we are. Any fool can build on the success of the past, its when we overcome and build anew that we become visionaries and hero's.

Awesome! Well said Sir. 

[BobDobbs]

3 hours ago, 1975NQ said:

All good points, for sure. They did the infamous CGI silliness for the mansion scenes (thankfully removed from current versions) to get the rating to drop to an R, it had nothing to do with what was cut out. Although, I'm sure the studio's official response if pressed would be to say exactly that - "we needed to shorten the length and keep it to an R rating". That's the thing with conspiracy theory speculation - we will just never know the truth. At least, not likely in our own lifetimes. I think some occult stuff may have been going on, as one of the main "keys" for the whole movie in terms of unlocking visual symbology has to do with the Freemasons, specifically their sacred tome (sarcasm) The 33 Degrees of the Scottish Rite.  A guy on reddit finally cracked the code last year and made a killer post about it, God bless him. 

However, if Kubrick was wacked (and I really think he was), I think it had more to do with him being a little too cutesy with the "powers that be". He basically let them know in his unedited film version that he was dropping hints - for posterity's sake - to the public at large about the mind control sex slave pedophilia bullshit that he witnessed with his own two eyes. There was already a huge amount of stories/disinformation/controversy out there regarding this stuff by that point in 1999 - and how some of these women were naming very, very powerful people with their stories. One could argue this was a plan he came up with back in the early 60s. Lolita (a movie about pedophiles) starts off with Peter Sellers (one of the pedos) rambling on about a party he was at and strange goings on, including one man on all fours acting as a table for others to do their dirty business (we see all this acted out in EWS mansion scene). Just my own theory.

But yeah, he's touching on all kinds of stuff in the movie from the Masons to Jungian archetypes to Wiccan (as you touch on) beliefs to Scientology ... it's exhaustive. That guy was one of a kind.

In terms of why rich, powerful people would engage in this evil shit  .. your guess is as good as mine. Scientologists certainly love their closeted actor ambassadors. They have those guys on a very tight leash indeed (i.e. threat of exposure). So, there's a hint at methodology right there - as far as any other groups or individuals hypothetically bringing in people they want to influence/control to their nasty little inner circle. If one witnesses pedophilia and does not report it, that person faces serious charges - maybe just as serious as those who perpetrated the act. They are now under your thumb. Ugh, just talking about this stuff is creeping me out. It's so damn fascinating but exposes (if true) so much ugliness.

And yeah, that is good news about Scientology! Kubrick would be happy about that, as he lost his daughter to it and she's still wrapped up in it to this day.

 

The whole pedo thing is just so far beyond my comprehension its difficult for me to really understand it and the motivations behind such behaviors. Kids are a pain in the ass, teenagers are an even bigger pain in the ass. Why anyone would be attracted to anyone under 30 is completely beyond my comprehension (or under 20 for them 20 somethings out there). There is nothing there, nothing at all, they are just needy pains in the ass but I guess I am looking at it the wrong way, who knows. Honestly, I guess the possibility of some elite pedo sex cult being out there is good as any possibility, it just seems really stupid IMO. 

[1975NQ]

Just now, Plant77 said:

Awesome! Well said Sir. 

+1 lol. You beat me to it, Plant.

It's extremely optimistic (like me) almost to the point of being naive. I think we as a young country are finally realizing that no country (group of humans) is immune to human nature. Optimism is in short supply, which is both realistic and sad. What Bob just posted reminded me of that scene in Dazed and Confused (because Hell yeah I will find a way to tie this into Zep lol) where the teacher is shouting after the kids who are leaving class for the last time to enjoy freedom from high school - she's saying all this anti-propaganda stuff and to remember the real truth about America, etc. It's a great scene and very 70s. Wish that same mindset was just as popular/prevalent today. Maybe it is, and I'm just out of the loop haha. 

[1975NQ]

6 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

The whole pedo thing is just so far beyond my comprehension its difficult for me to really understand it and the motivations behind such behaviors. Kids are a pain in the ass, teenagers are an even bigger pain in the ass. Why anyone would be attracted to anyone under 30 is completely beyond my comprehension (or under 20 for them 20 somethings out there). There is nothing there, nothing at all, they are just needy pains in the ass but I guess I am looking at it the wrong way, who knows. Honestly, I guess the possibility of some elite pedo sex cult being out there is good as any possibility, it just seems really stupid IMO. 

It is bizarre, no argument here. I'm convinced Kubrick saw something, and it absolutely haunted him. I also think he became disgusted with himself for being silent about it, and that's what drove this genius to make both those movies (Shining and EWS). Shining was about other stuff but also pedophilia. Kind of like  a warmup for EWS which he considered to be his masterpiece. No one goes through all that trouble just for funesies or the sake of "art". This guy had guilt to unload and demons to exorcise.

[1975NQ]

14 minutes ago, BobDobbs said:

 Why anyone would be attracted to anyone under 30 is completely beyond my comprehension

We will have to agree to disagree on this one 😂😂

I've dated women in their 20s who were waaaaaay more mature/sweet/humble/fun than women in their early 40s. Age really is just a number (within reason, of course). I tend to attract women in their mid 20s and up and don't think that's a problem for anyone. As long as consenting adults are honest and kind with each other, it's kinda all good imo.  

[Plant77]

13 minutes ago, 1975NQ said:

We will have to agree to disagree on this one 😂😂

I've dated women in their 20s who were waaaaaay more mature/sweet/humble/fun than women in their early 40s. Age really is just a number (within reason, of course). I tend to attract women in their mid 20s and up and don't think that's a problem for anyone. As long as consenting adults are honest and kind with each other, it's kinda all good imo.  

Yeah man, if you are in your 40’s and having success with that age group. And they are mature, and consenting, and you have a good time, and you are not hurting anyone, or being hurt. I believe 2pac said “I ain’t mad atcha! Do your thang boy”!