Jimmys lack of intrest in the occult.

[SteveAJones]

Repressed people really fuckin' freak out on stuff and create amazing things.

[Suz]

[nirvana]

No, I don't want to let it stand. I want to wonder. Mainly, I want to wonder if I missed out by being the first generation of "Free to be You and Me" kids......with nothing to rebel against. Because I read somewhere that AC had a hardass, fundamentalist upbringing. People like that fascinate me. Repressed people really fuckin' freak out on stuff and create amazing things. Look at Maynard from Tool. Damn, I wanna be pissed off at something, but when I am it's only a mood swing.

How do we know he was totally depressed and lost at the end? Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. Maybe being a worn out old junkie had something beautiful in it that none of us will ever know. I love to wonder.

If A.C. had a "sane" message, It was "know thy-self". And, if being that, makes you wonder...fine. It is a start. Know thy-self and rejoice....and wonder.

[Suz]

If A.C. had a "sane" message, It was "know thy-self". And, if being that, makes you wonder...fine. It is a start. Know thy-self and rejoice....and wonder.

Well, that's just common sense. Damn, is that it? Shit.

[Suz]

Well, that's just common sense. Damn, is that it? Shit.

A little bit o humor, there. I don't know how to edit my posts.

[nirvana]

Well, that's just common sense. Damn, is that it? Shit.

It may be to you and I , BUT surprisingly, millions have no clue as to "knowing" themselves. They are so caught up in what everyone says they should be or do....magazine covers, tv, internet, iPods, etc.

So, although a simple theory, knowing oneself, is harder today than ever.

[Suz]

It may be to you and I , BUT surprisingly, millions have no clue as to "knowing" themselves. They are so caught up in what everyone says they should be or do....magazine covers, tv, internet, iPods, etc.

So, although a simple theory, knowing oneself, is harder today than ever.

Now yer talkin! Answer me this: why is it that in the most priveleged cultures on earth, people seem to be personally miserable, spending a bazillion dollars on stuff to make them happy, or teach them to be happy. People who have never starved, been tortured or oppressed. Do you think it's just actually believing that all that crap's gonna make you happy? Is it not having a purposeful life? And why would people with so much fredom still be worrying about what everyone else says they should do?

[nirvana]

Now yer talkin! Answer me this: why is it that in the most priveleged cultures on earth, people seem to be personally miserable, spending a bazillion dollars on stuff to make them happy, or teach them to be happy. People who have never starved, been tortured or oppressed. Do you think it's just actually believing that all that crap's gonna make you happy? Is it not having a purposeful life? And why would people with so much fredom still be worrying about what everyone else says they should do?

My theory - "More is Less" and "freedom means responsibility". Most people think that more is better and they don't want the responsibility of being "free". Happiness is found within and yet we've been trained to think "outside" of ourselves. Happiness is here, there, from him or her, this or that...never from oneself!

Remember the "poor" of this world have less access to the very things that have programmed the rest of us. They are closer to the Key than any of us.

[Suz]

My theory - "More is Less" and "freedom means responsibility". Most people think that more is better and they don't want the responsibility of being "free". Happiness is found within and yet we've been trained to think "outside" of ourselves. Happiness is here, there, from him or her, this or that...never from oneself!

Remember the "poor" of this world have less access to the very things that have programmed the rest of us. They are closer to the Key than any of us.

Having to bust your ass to put food on the table kinda makes you wonder what the hell you ever worried about before. That's how it was for me when I became a single mom. Now my friends are already starting to have their inevitable mid life crises over stupid shit, and I just shake my head.

My grandma was the happiest person I've known, and she was dirt poor all her life. It didn't take much to make her happy at all. Is that what you mean by the KEY?

[SteveAJones]

Nirvana has apparently confused his personal theories with Crowley's. More is less? Know thyself?! The Key?! ROTFLMAO! These sentiments are not funny in and of themselves, but

hilarious (and I do mean laugh out loud funny!) when projected onto Crowley. Let me let

folks in on a little secret - money can't buy you happiness but it sure as hell don't hurt!

"For everything else, there's Master Card" -- Aleister Crowley

[Misty]

Now yer talkin! Answer me this: why is it that in the most priveleged cultures on earth, people seem to be personally miserable, spending a bazillion dollars on stuff to make them happy, or teach them to be happy. People who have never starved, been tortured or oppressed. Do you think it's just actually believing that all that crap's gonna make you happy? Is it not having a purposeful life? And why would people with so much fredom still be worrying about what everyone else says they should do?

I don't have an answer. All i can comment on is what I have seen a little too closely....too many people with charmed lives turning to alcohol to distort the view of what they are so lucky to have. if its not Jack Daniels its Xanax, or both. how did so many people miss that old saying...happiness comes from with in? i know it sounds like a cliche, but it could not be a truer statement.

[Suz]

That was a good read, Steve.

[Rock Historian]

In 1971, Jimmy Page bought Boleskine House, Crowley's former hunting lodge and Scottish retreat.

Jimmy Page's daughter was named Scarlet Lilith Eleida Page, born March 1971. The Scarlet Woman was, "a technical term complementary to that of the Beast for the office held by any directly inspired female medium of the gods." [from the editor's notes, _The Confessions_.] Furthermore, Crowley used one of the names "Lilith" for his first child.

Vinyl etching on _Led Zeppelin III_ (1970) - side a - "Do What Thou Wilt", side b - "So Mote Be It"

Crowley wrote a poem entitled "The May Queen". this was referred to in the track _Stairway To Heaven_ off of _Led Zeppelin IV_ .

In a W. Someret Maugham's novel, _The Magician_, the character, Oliver Haddo was based on Aleister Crowley. The opening scene takes place in the "Chien Noir" [French for Black Dog]. The Black Dog in this novel is a take-off on the real "Chat Blanc" [White Cat], a small restaurant in Montparnasse [France]. track _Black Dog_ was supposedly inspired by a real, old Black Labrador who wandered on the scene. On the IV album, inner gatefold cover, put Barrington Colby work _View in Half or Varying Light_ up to a mirror and view the "Black Dog".

In 1973, Jimmy Page outbid Kenneth Anger for an Aleister Crowley book, _The Scented Garden of Abdullah the Satirist of Shiraz a.k.a. Bagh-i-Muattar_ (1914).

Page suggested "Swang Song" as the title of Led Zeppelin's record company. Aleister Crowley sometimes called himself Paramahansa (the divine Swan). Aleister wrote "and the wild swan sings ever; and my heart sings ever." [The Electric Silence] The Swan is the spirit of ecstasy and symbolizes the eternal self.

In 1976, Jimmy Page opened a bookshop and named it The Equinox. The bookstore sold Crowley paraphernalia and had the Stele of Revealing in tapestry form in the window.

Led Zeppelin's album, _Presence_ (1976), featured a strange object of the cover— an obelisk that many wondered what it was, and what it was supposed to symbolize. In the 'of the Furnishings of the Temple' section in _Magick and Theory and Practice_, an obelisk is mentioned. When speaking about what should be on the altar, Aleister states, "on each side of it should be a pillar or obelisk, with countercharges in black and white." [p.345]

The Old Absinthe Bar in New Orleans (located at 400 Bourbon Street) was rumored to have been the set-up or at least the inspiration for the cover scenes of _In Through the Out Door_. Led Zeppelin was known to be fond of New Orleans' French Quarter. Crowley also held a certain fondness for the Old Absinthe House as he recalls, "I took a room convieniently close to the Old Absinthe House, where one could get real absinthe prepared in fountains whose marble was worn by 90 years' continual dripping." The Old Absinthe House inspired Aleister Crowley's essay "The Green Goddess". Today, if you go to the Old Absinthe Bar there is a picture on the wall of Jimmy and his ex-wife, supposedly accompanied by a story of how they met there.

Jimmy Page's solo album was titled Outrider. There is a mention in Crowley's Diary of a Drug Fiend, "Oh Thou Outrider of the Sun, that spurrest the bloody flanks of the wind! I adore Thee, Evoe! I adore Thee, IAO!" [p.27 Diary of a Drug Fiend]. [iAO stands for Isis, Apophis, and Osiris... Egyptian gods].

My thanks to Theolyn Brock.

The inside credits on the Outrider album also list "Succubus Music Inc." as the publisher Co. I know people who knew Page's ex-wife personally. (I'm from New Orleans) I believe she is a relative of the family that owned the Eckerd's drug stores that have since closed down. She is from Metairie, La which is just a few miles from New Orleans. He used to frequent Fat City which is sort of a strip of Bars in Metairie and he did hang out in Dino's Rock Box and McAllister's (which became The Last Stop). But that was around the time of The Firm and also The Outrider tour. I believe he still has an interest in the occult, but he is more tame about it and less involved than he was before. He's 64 now and is married with a few kids. This isn't 1974 any longer. I'm sure it's still a part of him, but in not nearly such a way.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Rock Historian

[Aquamarine]

The inside credits on the Outrider album also list "Succubus Music Inc." as the publisher Co. I know people who knew Page's ex-wife personally. (I'm from New Orleans) I believe she is a relative of the family that owned the Eckerd's drug stores that have since closed down. She is from Metairie, La which is just a few miles from New Orleans. He used to frequent Fat City which is sort of a strip of Bars in Metairie and he did hang out in Dino's Rock Box and McAllister's (which became The Last Stop). But that was around the time of The Firm and also The Outrider tour. I believe he still has an interest in the occult, but he is more tame about it and less involved than he was before. He's 64 now and is married with a few kids. This isn't 1974 any longer. I'm sure it's still a part of him, but in not nearly such a way.

Actually they just turned into CVS stores, but that's not very interesting! Unlike the occult, or at least what might be termed alternative spiritualities (because "occult" is a rather charged word), and I don't get the impression that Jimmy's involvement in Thelema has waned. But as he doesn't talk about it to the media, hard to know for sure.

[SunChild]

One solution is Self-actualization

[snippage]

8. The mystic experience, the oceanic feeling. Self-actualizing people commonly have mystic or `peak' experiences or times of intense emotions in which they transcend self. During a peak experience, they experience feelings of ecstasy, awe, and wonder with feelings of limitless horizons opening up, feelings of unlimited power and at the same time feelings of being more helpless than ever before. The experience ends with the conviction that something extremely important and valuable has happened so that the person is to some extent transformed and strengthened by the experience that has a carry-over into everyday life.

Thanks for that Steve.

Funny, I was thinking about this most of the day yesterday. First, it was along the same lines as Suz. Why is it we don't expect children who had loving, supportive, encouraging childhoods to "get over" their experiences? We just accept them for the people they are, and don't think they should change (except maybe for the spoiled ones, heh).

Don't worry Suz, you don't have to have something to rebel against, just something to be passionate about. There's a freakin' lot of noise in our culture to attempt to deal with, so that people get completely side tracked into thinking everything important is material. (Doesn't mean there aren't poor people who haven't got the first spiritual clue, either.)

I ended up where you did, Steve, jumping from Freud to Jung to... Maslow's Hierarchy! (Great minds, and all... )

The part quoted above, isn't that what Crowley attempted to codify, a way to find, record, and integrate the mystic experience?

As far as Page's interests now, I don't know and I don't really care, that's his business. I thank him for putting my feet on a different path, though.

But expecting that he's through with a lifetime's study seems incongruous to me.

[ally]

Having to bust your ass to put food on the table kinda makes you wonder what the hell you ever worried about before. That's how it was for me when I became a single mom. Now my friends are already starting to have their inevitable mid life crises over stupid shit, and I just shake my head.

My grandma was the happiest person I've known, and she was dirt poor all her life. It didn't take much to make her happy at all. Is that what you mean by the KEY?

It's called contentment. It's a wonderful way to live ones life

[SteveAJones]

The inside credits on the Outrider album also list "Succubus Music Inc." as the publisher Co. I know people who knew Page's ex-wife personally. (I'm from New Orleans) I believe she is a relative of the family that owned the Eckerd's drug stores that have since closed down. She is from Metairie, La which is just a few miles from New Orleans. He used to frequent Fat City which is sort of a strip of Bars in Metairie and he did hang out in Dino's Rock Box and McAllister's (which became The Last Stop). But that was around the time of The Firm and also The Outrider tour. I believe he still has an interest in the occult, but he is more tame about it and less involved than he was before. He's 64 now and is married with a few kids. This isn't 1974 any longer. I'm sure it's still a part of him, but in not nearly such a way.

I believe Patricia's maiden name is Ecker, not Eckerd. However, her having been a drugstore heiress is an interesting angle and I'll look into it.

On Friday, March 16 1990 Jimmy was seen at Dino's Rock Box (3619 18th St) throwing darts and this was reported on local radio station WCKW two days later. You seem to

be saying it was a bit of a haunt for him, in addition to the other locales. I find this very interesting.

Robert Plant still has an abiding affinity for New Orleans!

Edited April 7, 2008 by SteveAJones

[nirvana]

Nirvana has apparently confused his personal theories with Crowley's. More is less? Know thyself?! The Key?! ROTFLMAO! These sentiments are not funny in and of themselves, but

hilarious (and I do mean laugh out loud funny!) when projected onto Crowley. Let me let

folks in on a little secret - money can't buy you happiness but it sure as hell don't hurt!

"For everything else, there's Master Card" -- Aleister Crowley

Thanks Steve, I feel better now for your clarification. As usual, you have the final say...g'night folks!

[Reggie29]

"Do What Thou Wilt".

Didn't help Al.

Words to die by.

In some ways you might as well say those egotistical attention-seeking physicists are trying to impose the Law of Gravity on us all.

Nice one Sun!

Gravity is a fact of life, law or no law.

Nothing supernatural or occultist just pure natural fact.

What goes up does come down, eventually.

[SunChild]

"Do What Thou Wilt".

Didn't help Al.

Words to die by.

In some ways you might as well say those egotistical attention-seeking physicists are trying to impose the Law of Gravity on us all.

Nice one Sun!

Gravity is a fact of life, law or no law.

Nothing supernatural or occultist just pure natural fact.

What goes up does come down, eventually.

Well, everyone dies, don't they?

We disagree, is all. To me, "supernatural" just means not yet fully understood by human science, and "occult" just means "hidden". (Wisely, given how nasty established churches can be about sharing spiritual truth and power with all but a very small group.)

[The_Ninth_Scribe]

Just wondering what the story was behind Jimmys decline in interest in the occult? It seems in the days of Zep he had a great intrest and then it seemed to fall off. I know Jimmy was not into talking about it publicly and i was wondering if it still is an interest of his or did the "fade" of the 60's/70's wear off him as it seemed to do for other artists of that time?

I would guess it's because there's just way too much garbage in occult works. Word on the street was that he studied the works of Aleister Crowley. This man wrote tons of stuff on occult theology, but a lot of it was flawed because the man never bothered to learn the languages he based his work on ~ and there are some who study Kabbalah, who still claim you don't have to even know Hebrew! It's a great pity because they would learn a thing or two. For instance, the Geburhim were a Hebrew army. The Nephalhim were not "giants" (Greek error), but were rather cross breeds - offspring of inter-marriage which, according to the Torah, was forbidden, even between the tribes of Israel itself (because it caused dissent among the people). In fact, that was the first written "prenuptial agreement" that was ever recorded. The Raphahim are also mentioned. People, for reasons unknown to me, have confused the common title, Bene Elohim (sons of God) with the Malakhim (Messengers), which the western world calls Angels.

Some of these mistranslations have even caused wars, such as the dispute between the Jews and the Muslims... it's so bad that I've even had to create a special program on my computer to keep track of them all. There's a lot of this sh*t going on and it's almost bordering on rediculous!

When you come of a certain age, you realise that there is no magic pill to swallow and knowledge comes from dedicated study, not some divine bolt of lightening. More importantly, these studies are a journey, and you need to allow yourself the TIME to enjoy that journey.

Maybe that's what went missing with some of these so-called authorities. They were so focused on the end, they missed a lot of sights that were on their way. There's quite a lot to take in if given enough time.

The Ninth Scribe

Edited April 8, 2008 by The_Ninth_Scribe

[AllisonAdler]

Word on the street was that he studied the works of Aleister Crowley. This man wrote tons of stuff on occult theology, but a lot of it was flawed because the man never bothered to learn the languages he based his work on

Word from Jimmy directly, actually, and what you say here about AC is demonstrably untrue.

[FireOpal]

I believe Patricia's maiden name is Ecker, not Eckerd. However, her having been a drugstore heiress is an interesting angle and I'll look into it.

I'm familiar with the family whose patriarch founded the Eckerd drug chain: they are named Eckerd (surprise!) and they are originally from Delaware but have been based in Florida for many years now. No relation to the Eckerts of Louisiana then. Besides, if Patricia was an heiress why would she have been working as a waitress?

[SteveAJones]

If Patricia was an heiress why would she have been working as a waitress?

Hypothetically speaking, an heiress could work as a waitress. I didn't say I believed

she was an heiress, I said it was an angle I hadn't heard before but highlighted the names don't match. It's quite funny to consider though.

[eternal light]

When you come of a certain age, you realise that there is no magic pill to swallow and knowledge comes from dedicated study, not some divine bolt of lightening.

Maybe an occasional lightening bolt; there are stories.