Zep in 77

[Levee]

Here is a quote from a guy who was Zeppelin's laser operator from 1977 thru 1980.

He was asked if he felt that when TSRTS was played in theaters did it sound like it did when actually at a live Zeppelin show? Remember now, this guy knew nothing about Zeppelin or their music before he started working with them on the 77 tour.

Here is his reply:

"Soundwise, there was no comparison. Live - they were awesome and so loud it was frightening.

I can understand why Grant didn't want any live bootleg recordings in circulation. There is an energy in a live Led Zeppelin concert that doesn't come across in any recordings and more than makes up for any performance imperfections."

Maybe this will help put things into perspective, it does for me.

Sweet Jesus thank you snapper! I'm so tired of the 77 bashing! Especially from people who were not there......as I was 31 years ago today and tomorrow.

[sparks1]

Yea, I love the 1977 tour. One of my favorites. I just got a master clone of Baton Rouge 1977 and I have to say that not only is it the best sound quality tape ever (even better than Eddie), but is the best show of the tour too...

[IluvJimmyPage]

Sweet Jesus thank you snapper! I'm so tired of the 77 bashing! Especially from people who were not there......as I was 31 years ago today and tomorrow.

I completely agree with that - great post snapper!! I was at the first show on June 7th at Madison Square Garden and to me it was just beyond amazing. Led Zeppelin to me is the best band that there is and seeing them live, being there amongst all of the fans, just will never come across anywhere near the same on some bootleg tape (IMHO).

[Fresh Garbage]

Yea, I love the 1977 tour. One of my favorites. I just got a master clone of Baton Rouge 1977 and I have to say that not only is it the best sound quality tape ever (even better than Eddie), but is the best show of the tour too...

are you kidding? kind of strange for a first post talking about an uncerculated show like that.

tell us some more please....

[Jiri]

To set things straight: (I think) nobody wants to doubt the stories of people who actually saw them in ´77. I´m sure it was an amazing expierence.

Still, listening to the recordings, watching the footage of that time makes it clear that (with a few exceptions) the ´77 pales in comparison to the tours before. I´m not talking about the sound quality or the lasers=the show. I am referring to the actual musicianship. Jimmy and Bonzo´s playing became unreliable and sometimes Jimmy completely lost it.

This is no bashing. Just a fact. Even Jonesy (the greatest Bonzo fan of all times) agreed on that.

Come on, guys! There was this show when Jimmy´s pants fell down, at one point he had to change them (one wonders why).

[Roxie]

Especially from people who were not there......as I was 31 years ago today and tomorrow.

That's very cool. I love the '77 tour from what I've heard. Obviously I can see how it would differ from the early years, but what an experience it would have been to witness ANY year live.

[Strider]

I have often wondered over the years if I would have grown up

to be as big a Led Zeppelin fan as I am, if I had been born and

raised somewhere other than Southern California...say somewhere

like Tempe, AZ or North Carolina perhaps.

You see, there are two criteria I use to decide whether a band is

worth my devotion...their albums and their live shows.

There have been many bands that put out albums I liked but didn't

deliver the goods in concert.

Conversely, there are the bands that can put on a good show, but

then always seemed to have a hard time translating that live

energy to a studio album.

It is the bands that can do both, put out great albums and play

cracking live concerts, that make my all-time best list and earn

my eternal devotion.

Now Led Zeppelin put out great albums, no question, and it was first

hearing those albums on the radio and then buying them that made

me a fan in the first place.

But it was seeing them in concert that really etched the band as "GODS"

in my heart and mind and put them in the pantheon of greats along

with the Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Velvet Underground,

James Brown, Lynyrd Skynyrd and a few others at that time.

To recap for those of you who don't know me, here are the Zeppelin concerts

I was lucky enough to see:

1972 Tour

6.25.72 LA Forum

6.27.72 Long Beach Arena

1973 Tour

5.31.73 LA Forum

6.2.73 Kezar Stadium, SF

6.3.73 LA Forum

1975 Tour

3.12.75 Long Beach Arena

3.24.75 LA Forum

3.25.75 LA Forum

3.27.75 LA Forum

1977 Tour

6.21.77 LA Forum

6.23.77 LA Forum

6.25.77 LA Forum

6.26.77 LA Forum

6.27.77 LA Forum

By any objective measure, I think you could fairly say that I saw some

of the best concerts Zeppelin would ever play anywhere...some of those

shows were fairly mind-blowingly orgasmic...especially to a young lad like

me; my ages during my Zep concert run spanned from 10 to 15 years old.

But what if my only Zeppelin concert experience was the 1977 Tempe, AZ show;

a show I have never heard, but from all accounts is stunningly bad...I dare say

my view of Led Zeppelin would have dropped a few notches.

Same if the only shows I had to go by were the Landover, MD shows...now those

I have heard from various boots, and I was amazed at the disparity in playing

between Landover and LA.

So, that is why I stopped having knee-jerk reactions to people who dissed

the 1977 Zeppelin tour, or even the 75 tour.

Before, whenever a poster would complain about the 77 tour, I would rush to

Zeppelin's defense, asking people "What are you talking about, they were great in

77, just listen to 'Listen to this, Eddie' or any other LA boots!"

But gradually I realized that my 1977 Zeppelin concert experience was probably

different to about 90% of others, due simply to the luck of being able to attend

the LA shows.

If I had been stuck out in the sticks somewhere...chances were more likely

I got a sub-standard show, if they even toured anywhere near where I lived

to begin with. I mean, think about the poor folks in Montana or the Dakotas;

did they ever get a Zeppelin tour coming thru their state?

As for the specific question that began this thread...ie, why the Seattle show

was so bad.

Consider that there was a huge gap between the end of the LA leg of the tour

and the start of the next leg in Seattle...from June 27 to July 17, nearly a month.

Whatever momentum the band had built up from the MSG and LA Forum shows

seems to have dissipated...I mean, listen to Plant! What did he do during the

interim to cause his voice to suffer so? He sounded so good in LA, then BAM,

first show back and he sounds like it was 1975 all over again.

I remember being shocked at how skinny Jimmy had become...yes, he had

always been thin, but on the 1977 tour, he was positively wraith-like. Even so,

he still danced like a demon, which is why I was amazed to hear one poster

comment how he spent one show(was it the Tempe one?) stock still by the

drum riser...I couldn't imagine a Zeppelin concert without the charismatic

sight of Jimmy tripping the light fantastic around the stage, his whole body

a conduit thru which he transmitted his music.

It is obvious that none of the band members were taking good care of themselves;

and Peter Grant was mired in the depths of his marriage pains/divorce to be

able to focus on getting the band in good shape, and we all know that Richard

Cole, by this point, was more of an enabler than any kind of responsible road

manager.

The whole enterprise was straining under the load of all the drugs and egos and

ennui...it seems it took special circumstances(like a show in the band's home

away from home, LA) for the beast to get itself together and play near to its

once formidable capabilities.

It is funny, and you'll think me insane, but I once used to take Zeppelin concerts

for granted; I mean, they ALWAYS toured LA and always, well mostly, played

great...and I assumed that they played that way everywhere.

But after hearing some of the boots from the rest of 77...and even some of the

non-LA shows of 73 and 75, I thank my lucky stars that my parents had the

good sense to move to Southern California when they did.

Now, when I think how I saw Led Zeppelin 14 times...I wished I had realized

then how good I had it compared to other kids.

And I kind of feel bad for those of you who lived elsewhere and maybe got

a not-so-great concert, especially if it was your one and only chance to see

Led Zeppelin.

[BillyMacQ]

Look, I mean don't get me wrong, Robert is a wonderful singer and has a great voice, but I don't listen to Led Zep for him, I can't understand anything he sings, I think his lyrics are a bit crappy, I just listen to Led Zep for the incredible music and musicianship being presented by Messers Page, Jones and Bonham...

You just topped yourself, and provided further proof that you are the biggest and most clueless tool of anyone who posts to any Zep-related message board. All in one post. Congrats.

Love,

Billy

[Bonzoghost]

He's entitled to his opinion, Billy..

I'm quite fond of "Plant free" instrumental Zep too...

[ZeppFanForever]

Hi i recently got a copy of a seattle 77 show and i was shocked, jimmy is hit and miss, and robert sounds uh, not so good. What the hell happened between 75 and 77 that shook them so bad? Was is too much drugs or what.

Dont get me wrong i love Zep, i am hoping it was just a bad night...

Believe it or not, Zeppelin had some great days and they had some bad days. I saw Zeppelin at the Forum on 23 June 1977 and that concert was the best that I ever saw despite Pagey and Bonzo pretty smacked out on heroin. The Seattle show that you saw that was recorded on 17 July 1977 (I have this concert on DVD) was not their best performance. I do feel that Kashmir from the Seattle Kingdome 17 July 1977 should be ranked as one of their best live versions ever. I also saw the Oakland Coliseum show from 23 July 1977 and that show, in my opinion, was just about as worse as the Seattle show. From the Seattle 1977 up to the Oakland 1977 show, Pagey and Bonzo must have really done extreme amounts of heroin. Their timing was really off due to the partying. But that's Rock n' Roll! The Rolling Stones did it for years (Or should I say decades) and they're still going strong. Please don't get me wrong, I am truly a loyal die hard hard core Zeppelin fanatic like all of you are and I will always love them no matter what. I also do not mean any disrespect to any of the Zeppelin members. I do not feel that any of the Zeppelin members would ever deny that some of their past performances were not up to par. (If they could still remember GIVE OR TAKE A BRAIN CELL!) HA! ROCK ON!

[3hrsoflunacy]

Yea, I love the 1977 tour. One of my favorites. I just got a master clone of Baton Rouge 1977 and I have to say that not only is it the best sound quality tape ever (even better than Eddie), but is the best show of the tour too...

You must have blown Freezer a long time, or found one of those Doors SBD's he wants. I highly doubt it is a master clone, and if you didn't get it from Freezer, I can pretty much guarantee it. The lowest gen he has stated giving out for that show was a 2nd gen.

[ZeppFanForever]

To set things straight: (I think) nobody wants to doubt the stories of people who actually saw them in ´77. I´m sure it was an amazing expierence.

Still, listening to the recordings, watching the footage of that time makes it clear that (with a few exceptions) the ´77 pales in comparison to the tours before. I´m not talking about the sound quality or the lasers=the show. I am referring to the actual musicianship. Jimmy and Bonzo´s playing became unreliable and sometimes Jimmy completely lost it.

This is no bashing. Just a fact. Even Jonesy (the greatest Bonzo fan of all times) agreed on that.

Come on, guys! There was this show when Jimmy´s pants fell down, at one point he had to change them (one wonders why).

I agree with you considering that I saw two shows from the 77 Tour. I did read that Pagey was so thin during the 77 Tour (The thinnest that he has ever been) that he could not eat or hold anything down as a result of his heroin abuse. Bonzo was so smacked out of his mind due to really hanging around a lot with Pagey which didn't help the timing or the music at all. I also remember reading that Bonzo's drug and alcohol abuse came about as a result of missing his family and hated being away from home.

[jimmy page66]

TDOLZ are labels I don't particularly care for.

why??????

[Trashbag]

I did read that Pagey was so thin during the 77 Tour (The thinnest that he has ever been) that he could not eat or hold anything down as a result of his heroin abuse.

And he was really skinny in the first place. Whenever he lifted the double-neck up for Stairway, I always found it surprising that his arms didn't snap in half from the sheer weight of the guitar.

[BillyMacQ]

He's entitled to his opinion, Billy..

I'm quite fond of "Plant free" instrumental Zep too...

Glad to hear he's got company in the tool box.

Seriously, his opinions suck, and suck on a consistent basis in this forum and over at jpj.com. He's a pompous windbag with nothing constructive to add to any discussion.

Back to the topic at hand. The '77 tour is noteworthy for one major reason - the return of Robert's voice. He still had some god awful nights - the aforementioned Seattle gig is one example - but compared to the utterly pathetic shape he was in for most of 1975, he sang like a champ during the '77 tour, especially, but not exclusively, on either coast.

Listen to the high extended note he hit on a nightly basis during his entrance to SIBLY, or at end of NFBM. Think that's easy? You try it.

Love,

Billy

[One Symbol]

You know the last person I saw knock the 1977 tour this bad was....

So what price my original Empress Valley silver of Destroyer?

Could you not just employ the discs as functional drinks coasters?

[ZeppFanForever]

And he was really skinny in the first place. Whenever he lifted the double-neck up for Stairway, I always found it surprising that his arms didn't snap in half from the sheer weight of the guitar.

It broke my heart and I was even scared for him and dreaded it when he was holding the doubleneck. Oakland 77 from 23 July 1977 was the worse that I ever saw Pagey as far as health wise. But he did set the record straight for KNEBWORTH 1979 and the recent 02 Arena reunion concert on 10 December 2007. What do you think? ROCK ON!

[Killing Floor Blues]

It broke my heart and I was even scared for him and dreaded it when he was holding the doubleneck. Oakland 77 from 23 July 1977 was the worse that I ever saw Pagey as far as health wise. But he did set the record straight for KNEBWORTH 1979 and the recent 02 Arena reunion concert on 10 December 2007. What do you think? ROCK ON!

Set the record straight with his playing or his health? Regarding Knebworth, while the 4th was decent, the 11th was absolutely awful. IMHO some of Pages worst playing. Jimmy in no way looked in good health at Knebworth either.

I will agree that he looks to be in great health presently. He seems to still have that youthful energy from Zeppelin's early days.

[ZeppFanForever]

Set the record straight with his playing or his health? Regarding Knebworth, while the 4th was decent, the 11th was absolutely awful. IMHO some of Pages worst playing. Jimmy in no way looked in good health at Knebworth either.

I will agree that he looks to be in great health presently. He seems to still have that youthful energy from Zeppelin's early days.

That first show from KNEBWORTH (4 August 1979) was one of the greatest shows ZEPPELIN ever gave because the band was nervous and tight. ZEPPELIN also had a lot to prove playing wise and health wise after being away for two years. Jimmy & company kicked ass on that first night despite the music critics saying at that time that ZEPPELIN was finished or that their career was over. The critics were even giving negative reviews on "In Through The Out Door" since it didn't even sound like the ZEPPELIN of old. As for the the second show (11 August 1979), it wasn't as great as the first show (11 August 1979) because of the technology problems during the taping of the show. It was also because the band seemed more relaxed as compared to the first show and they got a little careless. Pagey may not have looked in good health as we have seen in the earlier years, but he looked a hell of a lot better than he looked at the end of the 77 Tour. I hope that I explained it to your satisfaction. If not, I will try and explain more to you.

[snapper]

The '77 tour was plagued from the beginning. First, it was postponed because Plant was sick and then when it started, Jimmy got sick. Then, you have a rained out show/riot in Tampa. The band hasn't done a show in a full 2 years and things are not starting off well, not to mention the drug problems going on within the band at the time were obviously intensifying and diminishing the quality of the music. They managed to pull off some great concerts but by the time the tour was cancelled Plants son was dead, Bonham Grant & Cole were jailed for a vicious beating and the band had managed to churn out some of the worst shows of its career.

The vultures were obviously circling over Zeppelin at this point in time and they were never to be the same again after. The '77 tour was certainly the beginning of the end,

but thank God for Mike Millard being there when he was, otherwise, it would have been considered a complete disaster.

[NickZepp]

The end of 77 the band started to get things together. And then Robert's son dies and probably ends any momentum the band had.

[jesusmurphy]

Yea, I love the 1977 tour. One of my favorites. I just got a master clone of Baton Rouge 1977 and I have to say that not only is it the best sound quality tape ever (even better than Eddie), but is the best show of the tour too...

...You mean the one you said had the killer version of "The Wanton Song" on it????

Somehow I get the feeling that Freezer -or whoever you got this show from- has taken you, and undoubtedly several others, for a ride. Am I surprised? Not in the least, and I doubt I'm the only one...

[johnlennon696]

Been listening to a few '77 shows recently, notebly the LA Forum shows on the 21st and 23rd, of course mind-blowngly awesome, but i also like the Houston show TBH

But in comparison, i don't much like the 'Destroyer 27th' show, any more good sounding '77 shows i should get? (maybe a Landover show)

BTW, i have also got Seattle

[tom kid]

Been listening to a few '77 shows recently, notebly the LA Forum shows on the 21st and 23rd, of course mind-blowngly awesome, but i also like the Houston show TBH

But in comparison, i don't much like the 'Destroyer 27th' show, any more good sounding '77 shows i should get? (maybe a Landover show)

BTW, i have also got Seattle

Landover May 26th and 28th (both albeit, dry sounding soundboards, still worth having nonetheless.)

Landover May 30th - Maybe the best audience recording after LITE, and an awesome show to boot.

And of course, you need to get your hands on the rest of the LA shows. Every single one is absolutely outstanding!

New York 11th of June - Would be up there with the best performances of this tour, awesome version of No Quarter! Try get the SBD fragment if you can, it has full versions of NQ, TYG and Battle of Evemore on it and it isn't as dry sounding as other boards from this tour. great sounding recording too, to bad the best source is incomplete!

Cleveland April 28th - Also a very good show and recording, but it has numerous cuts and splices. I believe this was one of the first times the band played Nutrocker in NQ?

San Diego 19th of June - Just before the start of the LA run, some of Jimmy's best playing of the whole tour at this show. Great recording from Mike Millard. Bonzo was a bit under the weather during this show (hence the dropping of Over The Top from the setlist.)

[henrybonzo]

anyone know the date when Bonzo messed up ALS? found it on youtube, still pull it together though!!

be cool to have some 77 stuff on release, an official sound board thing would be cool, doubt we would see any dvds, i know thats why they were left off of the 2003 dvd but shucks boys, we know the naughty things you were getting up to so we are4 not that bothered to see you all half cut, tbh, when you were hammered you played a million times better than most of the "sober" crap we get these days, not defending drugs, just love Zep!!