ally Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I didn't detect anything wrong with Jimmy in 98. He played brilliantly and seemed more inspired then I'd seen in years. 23yrs to be exact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Plant has taken the rap for the end of that project ever since it happened. This is the first time he's even suggested there was more to it than his own decision--acknowledging that Jimmy's health, which he rightly doesn't go into, was also a contributing factor. I think he handled that situation better than anybody could be expected to, frankly, yet it seems he's still the scapegoat. (Your characterization of the Priory is a topic for another time.) I believe Robert deserves the rap he's taken. Christ, he bailed out of tour commitments AND the partnership! Ten years later he intimates "health issues"? Well, I saw Jimmy several nights throughout the tour and from the front row on the last night in Frankfurt. Fine form each step of the way and looking forward to the Japanese leg. Apparently, had new material in the bag for the next album, but I guess Robert couldn't be bothered with it anymore. Just once I wish RP would own up over this -- hey, I had another should I be doing this moment in Paris (the week after the end of the tour), wasn't interested in Jimmy's new music and preferred to run off with my girlfriend that Spring instead of doing the tour. I'd love to discuss Priory of Brion sometime. It's formation spoke volumes about Robert's headspace at the time. Hell, even the working title for 'Dreamland' was 'Head First'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninelives Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I believe Robert deserves the rap he's taken. Christ, he bailed out of tour commitments AND the partnership! Ten years later he intimates "health issues"? Well, I saw Jimmy several nights throughout the tour and from the front row on the last night in Frankfurt. Fine form each step of the way and looking forward to the Japanese leg. Apparently, had new material in the bag for the next album, but I guess Robert couldn't be bothered with it anymore. Just once I wish RP would own up over this -- hey, I had another should I be doing this moment in Paris (the week after the end of the tour), wasn't interested in Jimmy's new music and preferred to run off with my girlfriend that Spring instead of doing the tour. I'd love to discuss Priory of Brion sometime. It's formation spoke volumes about Robert's headspace at the time. Hell, even the working title for 'Dreamland' was 'Head First'. There are two sides to every story and without being there or knowing them personally, it's really not fair to place all the blame on Robert. His being mum about the whole thing shows a great deal of respect for Jimmy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I believe Robert deserves the rap he's taken. Christ, he bailed out of tour commitments AND the partnership! Ten years later he intimates "health issues"? Well, I saw Jimmy several nights throughout the tour and from the front row on the last night in Frankfurt. Fine form each step of the way and looking forward to the Japanese leg. Apparently, had new material in the bag for the next album, but I guess Robert couldn't be bothered with it anymore. Just once I wish RP would own up over this -- hey, I had another should I be doing this moment in Paris (the week after the end of the tour), wasn't interested in Jimmy's new music and preferred to run off with my girlfriend that Spring instead of doing the tour. I'd love to discuss Priory of Brion sometime. It's formation spoke volumes about Robert's headspace at the time. Hell, even the working title for 'Dreamland' was 'Head First'. I can't perform a medical diagnosis on someone who's right here in the room with me, and I don't suppose you can either. (My apologies if you're a physician in your other life.) Thus the attempt ten years later to perform a definitive diagnosis of Jimmy's physical condition, as perceived from a distance, seems less likely to be accurate than the view of someone who shared the stage and the tour with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 There are two sides to every story and without being there or knowing them personally, it's really not fair to place all the blame on Robert. His being mum about the whole thing shows a great deal of respect for Jimmy IMO. I must admit I once placed all the blame on Robert, but having taken into consideration some of Knebby's inputs some time ago my stance has softened considerably. There are two sides and perhaps the truth is found in the middleground. It was a difficult time for Robert Plant and a devestating consequence for Jimmy Page but it's just water under the bridge now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I can't perform a medical diagnosis on someone who's right here in the room with me, and I don't suppose you can either. (My apologies if you're a physician in your other life.) Thus the attempt ten years later to perform a definitive diagnosis of Jimmy's physical condition, as perceived from a distance, seems less likely to be accurate than the view of someone who shared the stage and the tour with him. Oh, I agree Robert's a credible source insofar as what was going on at the time but he, like each of us, experiences life through a personal bias. All beliefs are self-referential. Ultimately, whatever the reasons for the dissolution of their partnership they reached a reconciliation over it long ago. Friends to the end as schoolchildren say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquamarine Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Oh, I agree Robert's a credible source insofar as what was going on at the time but he, like each of us, experiences life through a personal bias. All beliefs are self-referential. Ultimately, whatever the reasons for the dissolution of their partnership they reached a reconciliation over it long ago. Friends to the end as schoolchildren say! Very true--and Jimmy Page's beliefs are equally self-referential, of course, which is why laying sole responsibility at Plant's door seems unfair. However, it's enough for me that they remain friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrZoSo Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 He's been discreet about the whole topic for ten years, in my book that's handling it well. Especially as he wasn't the one with the health issues. Jimmy was well enough to Tour with the black crowes (back issues later on in the tour) and do a few live performances with Poof doody. Robert left the tour, and other commitments with almost no notice, or reason. Jimmy made it known publicly he was not happy. These are the only facts I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Jimmy was well enough to Tour with the black crowes (back issues later on in the tour) and do a few live performances with Poof doody. Robert left the tour, and other commitments with almost no notice, or reason. Jimmy made it known publicly he was not happy. These are the only facts I know of. The original plan was for Page/Plant to perform at the Tokyo Dome in April 1999, to be followed by an Australian tour. So far as I know this was never promoted or advertised publicly (perhaps encouraging Robert to opt out) but Jimmy enthusiastically discussed a return to Japan while backstage in Tupelo, MS on 5/30/98. The 1998 Page/Plant World Tour ended at Festhalle in Frankfurt on December 3, 1998. On December 10th 1998 Page/Plant performed at the Paris Amnesty International Concert:The Struggle Continues (50th Ann. Universal Declaration of Human Rights) at Bercy. According to Robert Plant, on this night he had what I call another "should I be doing this" moment brought on by being surrounded by celebrity musicians, papparazzi and what not. I apply that particular phrase because it is the one he used in regards to the onstage doubts he felt in Philadelphia during the Live Aid performance in 1985. Soonafter, Jimmy learned of Robert's disinterest in continuing the tour. "There are only so many springtimes" was the cryptic statement made at the time. The Japanese and Australian dates were cancelled, with the understanding they would reconvene in May 1999 to begin writing new material. In Feb 1999 Jimmy took a brief holiday to the Caribbean. He also went to New York to attend the RIAA Awards and accepted, along with John Paul Jones, Led Zeppelin's Diamond Award for sales of 'Led Zeppelin IV'. He also attended the 14th Annual Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction ceremony hosted by Ahmet Ertegun. Come May 1999, Robert cancelled at the last minute and counter-offered with August. Come August 1999, Robert remained non-committal. Jimmy had already recorded a number of instrumentals with Michael Lee by this point in time. In addition to his ongoing studio work with Michael Lee, Jimmy had also teamed up with The Black Crowes at Ross Halfin's suggestion for a one-off charity gig in London in June. Coincidentally, he received a call from Black Crowes manager Pete Angelus two months later to inquire if he would be interested in a touring collaboration. Given that Jimmy was getting nowhere with Robert he readily agreed. Jimmy, Michael Lee and The Black Crowes performed at the huge Net Aid benefit in NJ on 10/9/99 before Jimmy went on rehearse and perform a series of six shows with TBC that month. This led to the release of a live album and additional touring with them in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myledzep Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 The original plan was for Page/Plant to perform at the Tokyo Dome in April 1999, to be followed by an Australian tour. So far as I know this was never promoted or advertised publicly (perhaps encouraging Robert to opt out) but Jimmy enthusiastically discussed a return to Japan while backstage in Tupelo, MS on 5/30/98. The 1998 Page/Plant World Tour ended at Festhalle in Frankfurt on December 3, 1998. On December 10th 1998 Page/Plant performed at the Paris Amnesty International Concert:The Struggle Continues (50th Ann. Universal Declaration of Human Rights) at Bercy. According to Robert Plant, on this night he had what I call another "should I be doing this" moment brought on by being surrounded by celebrity musicians, papparazzi and what not. I apply that particular phrase because it is the one he used in regards to the onstage doubts he felt in Philadelphia during the Live Aid performance in 1985. Soonafter, Jimmy learned of Robert's disinterest in continuing the tour. "There are only so many springtimes" was the cryptic statement made at the time. The Japanese and Australian dates were cancelled, with the understanding they would reconvene in May 1999 to begin writing new material. In Feb 1999 Jimmy took a brief holiday to the Caribbean. He also went to New York to attend the RIAA Awards and accepted, along with John Paul Jones, Led Zeppelin's Diamond Award for sales of 'Led Zeppelin IV'. He also attended the 14th Annual Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Induction ceremony hosted by Ahmet Ertegun. Come May 1999, Robert cancelled at the last minute and counter-offered with August. Come August 1999, Robert remained non-committal. Jimmy had already recorded a number of instrumentals with Michael Lee by this point in time. In addition to his ongoing studio work with Michael Lee, Jimmy had also teamed up with The Black Crowes at Ross Halfin's suggestion for a one-off charity gig in London in June. Coincidentally, he received a call from Black Crowes manager Pete Angelus two months later to inquire if he would be interested in a touring collaboration. Given that Jimmy was getting nowhere with Robert he readily agreed. Jimmy, Michael Lee and The Black Crowes performed at the huge Net Aid benefit in NJ on 10/9/99 before Jimmy went on rehearse and perform a series of six shows with TBC that month. This led to the release of a live album and additional touring with them in 2000. And if I recall correctly, wasn't this tour eventually postponed/cancelled because Jimmy was having health problems....i.e. his back? Or is that just rumor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 And if I recall correctly, wasn't this tour eventually postponed/cancelled because Jimmy was having health problems....i.e. his back? Or is that just rumor? Not a rumor. That is just the explanation that was given at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 And if I recall correctly, wasn't this tour eventually postponed/cancelled because Jimmy was having health problems....i.e. his back? Or is that just rumor? It was not a health problem. He accidentally injured his back offstage while on the tour. The North American tour began on June 26, 2000 and they completed all twelve shows. On August 12th 2000 they opened the second leg of their North American tour in Albuquerque, NM and returned to Los Angeles afterward, with August 13th an off day. As I understand it, on the off day he injured his back (public forum so never mind how) and returned to the Sunset Marquis hotel. The decison was made to proceed with the August 14th 2000 taping of 'The Wanton Song' before an audience at NBC Studios around 5pm PST for 'The Tonight Show with Jay Leno' which aired that night, and they accomplished this without incident. However, further live performances were deternmined to be out of the question. The next concert set for Irvine on August 15th was immediately postponed and then ultimately cancelled, as well as all 39 remaining dates scheduled through December, to include Europe, the UK and Japan. As I understand it, as a result of the tour cancellation Jimmy was encouraged/forced to undergo an extended hiatus for his own sake and and to keep the tour insurance underwriters satisfied. As 2000 came to a close Jimmy left England for Brazil and then on to his rented home in Florida. He continued to receive care for his back there until at least March 2001. Unfortunately, since then he has only given six public performances with the 02 Arena being his only full concert performance. I have often heard the rumor he cut and ran from The Black Crowes. In the unlikely event I have not sufficiently outlined enough details above to dispel that, I will simply add if a cut and run was his intent why would he have had all his gear shipped to the US for the second leg? Why would he have flown from England to California and on to New Mexico for the opening night? Would it not have been simpler to execute a cut and run during the mid-tour break which lasted roughly 30 days from July to August? Jimmy did not cut and run! He hurt his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Usually a back injury is considered a health problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzfan715 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It was not a health problem. He accidentally injured his back offstage while on the tour. Injuring yourt back constitutes a health problem. As I understand it, on the off day he injured his back (public forum so never mind how) and returned to the Sunset Marquis hotel. So all of a sudden you've decided to stay out of there personal lives because this place is public. For SAJ: I'm just curious, how did Jimmy hurt his finger before the O2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Usually a back injury is considered a health problem. Not to get into a semantic debate but IMHO chronic back pain is a health problem. Back pain stemming from a one time incident which subsides with care/treatment is an injury. We don't refer to his three-fingered technique on the '75 tour a health problem, nor his broken finger last year. These are injuries. I do suspect "health problem" is being thrown around in the press lately as a euphemism for...never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Usually a back injury is considered a health problem. I think the distinction is being made between a disease/disorder/syndrome and an injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Not to get into a semantic debate but IMHO chronic back pain is a health problem. Back pain stemming from a one time incident which subsides with care/treatment is an injury. We don't refer to his three-fingered technique on the '75 tour a health problem, nor his broken finger last year. These are injuries. I do suspect "health problem" is being thrown around in the press lately as a euphemism for...never mind. If you check into your local emergency room with a back injury they will regard it as a health problem, however minor or temporary it may seem, and evaluate and/or treat it accordingly. There is no guarantee that future problems will not arise from a seemingly minor back injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 So all of a sudden you've decided to stay out of there personal lives because this place is public. I'm just curious, how did Jimmy hurt his finger before the O2? The Back Injury I'm honoring a specific request not to disclose how it happened. Note also it is being discussed strictly within the context of it's impact on the tour, not his personal life. The Broken Finger Jimmy was coming up the garden path that night and it's not well lit. He fell and landed awkwardly on the stone pavement. It had nothing to do with requiring extra rehearsal time or any other such nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suz Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Chiropractors are the best. I didn't believe in them for years, but boy they really know what they're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The Back Injury I'm honoring a specific request not to disclose how it happened. Note also it is being discussed strictly within the context of it's impact on the tour, not his personal life. The Broken Finger Jimmy was coming up the garden path that night and it's not well lit. He fell and landed awkwardly on the stone pavement. It had nothing to do with requiring extra rehearsal time or any other such nonsense. Another embarrassing story about a rock star climbing a palm tree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I think the distinction is being made between a disease/disorder/syndrome and an injury. Precisely. I'm not inclined to get dragged into another pointless no-win argument over semantics, particularly one in pink text. People can either recognize the difference between acute pain and chronic pain or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Another embarrassing story about a rock star Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 To sum up the semantic discussion: Both injuries and diseases are health problems. I suppose Steve's point though is that what happened on the BC tour is not related to any 'health problems' detected a while earlier by Robert Plant. That comment of Robert's does make me wonder - not sure what to think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I suppose Steve's point though is that what happened on the BC tour is not related to any 'health problems' detected a while earlier by Robert Plant. That comment of Robert's does make me wonder - not sure what to think. Steve's point is Robert used "health problems" as a euphemism. Enough said from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Steve's point is Robert used "health problems" as a euphemism. Enough said from me. Steve, I may have referred to you in the third person, but no rudeness was intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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