The Next President of the USA will be?

[Del Zeppnile]

With all the problems this country is facing, overturning Roe v. Wade should not be on anyone's priority list.

As a woman, i of course feel it's my right to decide.

You mean decide to terminate the life of another human being... or a "developing human being" if you are more comfortable with that term.

But make no mistake, ending the murder of 1.5 million innocent lives IS at the top of the list. No greater cause since the abolition of slavery.

McCain answered that question correctly. While Obama seemed almost uncomfortable in his own skin to try and answer it.

Of course why wouldn't he. Killing babies isn't exactly anything to be proud of.

[Medhb]

You mean decide to terminate the life of another human being... or a "developing human being" if you are more comfortable with that term.

But make no mistake, ending the murder of 1.5 million innocent lives IS at the top of the list. No greater cause since the abolition of slavery.

McCain answered that question correctly. While Obama seemed almost uncomfortable in his own skin to try and answer it.

Of course why wouldn't he. Killing babies isn't exactly anything to be proud of.

I respect your opinion Del but would you vote for a presidential candidate on that issue alone? It's already a given right for women to make these decisions for themselves. In a world that is already overpopulated and where children are starving, uneducated, and not cared for properly because their parents aren't prepared to take care of them I think abortion is a valid choice. If you don't want one...don't get one. But don't infringe on anyone elses rights to get one...people will just be doing it in backstreet clinics and underground again, that's all.....

[Medhb]

You don't think strength of character, loyalty, honor, and sense of duty were displayed by Biden in how, as a 30 year old, he dealt with the tragic deaths of his wife and infant daughter?

Puh-lease.

He doesn't? What campaign are you following, TypO?

You havent noticed the John "Can I tell you a POW story?" McCain trend.. or the

John "He's a POW how dare you question or doubt him!" McCain trend lately?

I have. And I'm not alone. -->

"can't remember how many homes he has."

The house issues reveals McCain's hypocrisy and his dishonesty. He allowed his campaign

to portray Obama as an "elitist" when in fact he himself is the TRUE ELITIST candidate.

"He makes mistakes and he's old."

I think the fact that he might be showing signs of senility is quite relevant to the election, TypO.

"he makes inappropriate jokes."

After 8 years of Bush buffoonery I think it's releveant to consider if we want another POTUS

who makes jokes that embarrass our nation, disrespect our troops, and mock us as citizens.

Having said all that, your point of attack is really nothing but a red herring. You act as though I haven't criticized McCain on substantive policy issues. If you're "objective" (something you've indicated is important to you, right?), you'll acknowledge that I've criticized McOld's positions on a wide range of policy issues, domestic, economic, and with regard to foreign relations. In addition to criticizing McAncient policy positions, I've also pointed out his shortcomings of personal character. You gotta admit, my friend, that my criticisms of John McGoo have been rather comprehensive.

Yeah,.. Barack Obama, a Harvard Law School magnum cum laude graduate; President of the Harvard Law Review; Illinois state senator; US Senator; and democratic nominee for the office of POTUS.. needs "adult supervision" to have a chance of winning the presidency.

Cute.

Totally asinine, but cute.

...coming from you.

Btw,.. fwiw,.. I didn't see Barack doing any squiriming today

during the introduction of Joe Biden as his VP nominee.

Don't you think McCain is probably squirming a bit over who he's gonna nominate? Can he really afford (figurately speaking, of course) to nominate a guy way younger than he is, way better looking tha he is, way more rich than he is, and who instead of wearing adult diapers like he does, wears magic underwear?

McCain-Romney.. the adult diaper-magic underwear ticket!

Ya know Earth MiMi? You haven't been here that long but I'm growing quite fond of you!!

[Electrophile]

I respect your opinion Del but would you vote for a presidential candidate on that issue alone? It's already a given right for women to make these decisions for themselves. In a world that is already overpopulated and where children are starving, uneducated, and not cared for properly because their parents aren't prepared to take care of them I think abortion is a valid choice. If you don't want one...don't get one. But don't infringe on anyone elses rights to get one...people will just be doing it in backstreet clinics and underground again, that's all.....

Furthermore, I'm tired of people thinking that because it's in the Bible (or because religions prohibit it) it should be in the Constitution. This isn't Iran, religion does not dictate our laws, nor should it ever. This is not a theocracy.

[~tangerine~]

You mean decide to terminate the life of another human being... or a "developing human being" if you are more comfortable with that term.

But make no mistake, ending the murder of 1.5 million innocent lives IS at the top of the list. No greater cause since the abolition of slavery.

McCain answered that question correctly. While Obama seemed almost uncomfortable in his own skin to try and answer it.

Of course why wouldn't he. Killing babies isn't exactly anything to be proud of.

I have never been uncomfortable with the abortion issue. I have ALWAYS felt it's my body, and god forbid i get pregnant when i'm not ready, i want to have the option available to me. I'm not saying i would have chosen that option, but it was a comfort to know it was one. I was however, fortunate, very fortunate, that i was educated (more by my best friend than my mom, but mom tried) on "BIRTH CONTROL" and used it wisely. IMO, education to prevent unwanted pregnancies should be at the top of the priority list. If education in schools isn't enough then public service organizations should be getting out into the community. Prevent the event. Best way to go.

This may sound harsh but I think it's more humane sometimes to end an unwanted life than to bring one into the world when the mother isn't fit to raise it. If you have ever seen a baby born prematurely and addicted to crack or a similar scenario, you might agree just a little with what i just said. Not to mention all the unwanted children born into a life of abuse.

[Electrophile]

What if the woman is on birth control but it fails for some reason and she gets pregnant? She was obviously on birth control to avoid pregnancy, but it happened anyway. Should she be shackled to a 9 month gestation period even though she clearly doesn't want to be pregnant?

Edited August 24, 2008 by Electrophile

[Medhb]

Elizabeth - spot on!

Tangerine - I couldn't have said it better, thank you!!

[allthekingshorses]

You mean decide to terminate the life of another human being... or a "developing human being" if you are more comfortable with that term.

But make no mistake, ending the murder of 1.5 million innocent lives IS at the top of the list. No greater cause since the abolition of slavery.

McCain answered that question correctly. While Obama seemed almost uncomfortable in his own skin to try and answer it.

Of course why wouldn't he. Killing babies isn't exactly anything to be proud of.

What about the 2 year old child who is killed and considered a Casualty of War? How is that any different? It's an innocent life taken by a choice.

And then there are those who say they are pro-life and then shame a woman and her child when the mother has a child out of wedlock or as a teen.

[~tangerine~]

I respect your opinion Del but would you vote for a presidential candidate on that issue alone? It's already a given right for women to make these decisions for themselves. In a world that is already overpopulated and where children are starving, uneducated, and not cared for properly because their parents aren't prepared to take care of them I think abortion is a valid choice. If you don't want one...don't get one. But don't infringe on anyone elses rights to get one...people will just be doing it in backstreet clinics and underground again, that's all.....

I agree with everything you have said Medhb, but the point that i didn't mention in my response to Del, i just read from you. Really great point, women going to backstreet clinics or god forbid i remember hearing about "self abortions" when i was a teenager.

[Electrophile]

Republicans would have no problem with millions of women and teenage girls dying every year in underground abortion clinics, just so long as Roe v. Wade is overturned. That's the priority. Outlaw abortion so that the mothers die getting them in back alleys with bicycle spokes, like in the good old days. My mother's best friend died in 1969 from a back-alley abortion after she couldn't face the shame of being an unwed mother. That's the ticket. Just exchange one for the other.

Is that this so-called "Compassionate Conservatism" we hear so much about?

[Electrophile]

After Roe VS. Wade, abortion was only legal in the first trimester. Then it went to the second trimester. And now, while a woman is on her way to the hospital in labor if she decides she no longer wants the baby it can be killed when she gets there.

If you really believe that, I have some swampland in Florida I'd like to sell you. Save the hyperbole for someplace else, no one here is interested in your story-telling skills.

I am as pro-choice as they come and even I think if you're at about 6 months and you don't know whether or not you want to be pregnant, tough shit. You had plenty of time before then to make that decision. Past that time, the only way I would approve of abortion is if there is mortal danger to the mother. I would venture to say that about 100% of the people who are pro-choice, believe the second paragraph. Abortion is never always the BEST choice, but it should always be A choice. We are past the stage in this civilization where women are forced to remain pregnant whether they want to be or not.

I have never at any time said that people who are opposed to abortion should change their minds. What I am opposed to is their thinking that one's religious beliefs should dictate the law. People who are opposed to abortion and want Roe v. Wade overturned or want there to be an amendment banning it (same with gay marriage), want them to exist because GOD doesn't like it. Tough shit. Separation of Church and State, pal. The comeback they always give is that by allowing these things, it takes away their right to practice their religion. No it doesn't. No one is forcing you to have abortions or marry gay people, or whatever the hot-button issue of the day is. It's giving EVERYONE ELSE that option. There's a big difference between the two things. Allowing women the access to safe abortions doesn't mean diddly-poo to you, unless you want one. If you don't want one, don't get one. Easy peasy.

[Electrophile]

There is no way a hospital will perform an abortion on a woman who is 8 months pregnant unless her life is in danger. Just. Will. Not. Happen. It doesn't "substantially" remain anything.

And again, thank you for completely dodging everything else I said, which BTW, were responses to things YOU asked me. WTG.

[Electrophile]

Hey, I know who you are now! That whole "curse mouth" thing gave it away. Oooh, I said the word "shit" and your puritan little prudish ears just couldn't handle it.

Go cry some more.

[Electrophile]

You can't possibly be so deluded as to think anyone who is pro-choice would support something that would be more likely to have abortion rights taken away. You really can't be that nuts.

Besides, what is to talk about? I don't support what those underground clinics do, and neither does anyone else who is pro-choice. That is not what we fight for, or what we support. We pushed for Roe v. Wade for SAFE abortions in real hospitals/clinics, not that underground shit. Oh oops, I said shit. Will that make your prudish ears bleed again? What those underground clinics do doesn't help this case at all, in fact it is quite detrimental. So again......what is there to talk about? I don't condone what people outside of a safe medical setting do, never have and never will. I don't think I can say this any other way that your clearly obstinate self will read.

I already gave my stance on abortion, if you're unwilling to read it, that's not my problem. What you want is someone to get into a flamewar pissing match with you, and I won't do it. So you'll keep saying "cop out" this and "you won't answer" to try and bait me, but like I said.....won't work. You're no different than the raving nutters I have to deal with in the town I live in and most people just don't give in to what they want. Still need some Kleenex?

[Del Zeppnile]

I respect your opinion Del but would you vote for a presidential candidate on that issue alone?

Yes. I will never vote for any canidate who is not pro-life. If there are no pro-life canidates then I will not vote. I am not a McCain fan, but I'm glad that he answered that the way he did. However, if McCain were to select a pro-choice canidate as a VP running mate. Then no, I would not vote for that ticket.

And I don't think my view on this is rare among social conservatives whether they are Republican or otherwise.

It's already a given right for women to make these decisions for themselves.

It was also a right to own slaves at one time too. Just because there is a law making abortion on demand legal, does not make it right in my view. Laws change as people become more enlightened, they may have a change of view on the killing of a fetus. Even the woman who the Roe V. Wade case was filed for, Norma L. McCorvey, decided not to have the abortion afterall and even later became a Christian and member of Operation Rescue.

In a world that is already overpopulated and where children are starving, uneducated, and not cared for properly because their parents aren't prepared to take care of them I think abortion is a valid choice. If you don't want one...don't get one. But don't infringe on anyone elses rights to get one...people will just be doing it in backstreet clinics and underground again, that's all.....

Just because of all those issues you mentioned, it still does not make it right to kill an innocent human life. I believe that qualifying the conditions in which a child should be born into is dangerous. Just as dangerous as it is to qualify the value of an elderly person living in a retirement home, no matter what that quality of that life is.

Human life is either special or it is not. Human life/human developement either begins at conception or it does not. In all respect, the debate begins there in my mind. Not in whether or not a child will be educated or have a nice house to live in.

[Del Zeppnile]

*click*, Del.

We all know you admire Archie Bunker.

You frequently channel Arch, don't you?

Nice performance with the faux anger though, bud.

You probably had some people convinced. (nah)

--------

"If I were to insult people and mean it, it wouldn't be funny."

~ Don Rickles.

Cheers to that, Don!

No, there is no place for racist comments from people running for President and Vice President. Archie was a TV comedy...

Joe Biden is a horror film.

[Rorer714]

I am not a McCain fan, but I'm glad that he answered that the way he did. However, if McCain were to select a pro-choice canidate as a VP running mate. Then no, I would not vote for that ticket.

And I don't think my view on this is rare among social conservatives whether they are Republican or otherwise.

Human life is either special or it is not. Human life/human developement either begins at conception or it does not. In all respect, the debate begins there in my mind. Not in whether or not a child will be educated or have a nice house to live in.

....but it's just fine and dandy to send our kids to Iraq and Afghanistan and take human lives.

Whats the difference between a fetus and an Iraqi,Del?

Sounds a bit like a contradiction to me.Apparently,you hold a fetus in a higher regard than an Iraqi.

[Del Zeppnile]

....but it's just fine and dandy to send our kids to Iraq and Afghanistan and take human lives.

Whats the difference between a fetus and an Iraqi,Del?

Are you talking about enemy combatants? If you are, the there is a big difference in my mind. Otherwise we could have never fought a war against Nazi Germany either.

I never said that all "killing" is evil or should not be allowed. It may not be pleasant, but I'm sure that you would "kill" to defend your life or the lives of those you love. Obviously murder is wrong, because it is the killing of the innocent. And if there are innocents being murdered in Iraq, or anywhere else, then that is wrong too.

But in a war somethimes civilians are killed, it can't completly be avoided. During the allied invasion of Normandy and the push inland, nearly 70 thousand French civilians were tragically killed (mostly by Allied bombbers). But that being said, it still wasn't "murder" no matter how tragic it was.

Sounds a bit like a contradiction to me.Apparently,you hold a fetus in a higher regard than an Iraqi.

Not really. But do you hold innocent human fetuses of all nationalities in lower regard than enemy soldiers?

[Dzldoc]

*click*, Del.

We all know you admire Archie Bunker.

You frequently channel Arch, don't you?

Nice performance with the faux anger though, bud.

You probably had some people convinced. (nah)

--------

"If I were to insult people and mean it, it wouldn't be funny."

~ Don Rickles.

Cheers to that, Don!

http://members.aol.com/Al5010/sounds/wise.wav

[Rorer714]

Are you talking about enemy combatants? If you are, the there is a big difference in my mind. Otherwise we could have never fought a war against Nazi Germany either.

I never said that all "killing" is evil or should not be allowed. It may not be pleasant, but I'm sure that you would "kill" to defend your life or the lives of those you love. Obviously murder is wrong, because it is the killing of the innocent. And if there are innocents being murdered in Iraq, or anywhere else, then that is wrong too.

But in a war somethimes civilians are killed, it can't completly be avoided. During the allied invasion of Normandy and the push inland, nearly 70 thousand French civilians were tragically killed (mostly by Allied bombbers). But that being said, it still wasn't "murder" no matter how tragic it was.

Not really. But do you hold innocent human fetuses of all nationalities in lower regard than enemy soldiers?

So you are saying that there's a need for "necessary killing" of innocents?

Who has the power to make that decision for me?

[Medhb]

No, there is no place for racist comments from people running for President and Vice President. Archie was a TV comedy...

Joe Biden is a horror film.

I don't see that as a racist comment at all! It was a statement of fact that a LOT of Indian immigrants open convenience stores. To pretend that is not true is almost racist...by trying to NOT be racist in actuallity you ARE being racist. "Oh, don't discuss the ways the Indian population is integrating into our society. "

The great thing about our Indian friends is that they are legal, they learn our language and they are intelligent and resourcefull people.

[Medhb]

Yes. I will never vote for any canidate who is not pro-life. If there are no pro-life canidates then I will not vote. I am not a McCain fan, but I'm glad that he answered that the way he did. However, if McCain were to select a pro-choice canidate as a VP running mate. Then no, I would not vote for that ticket.

And I don't think my view on this is rare among social conservatives whether they are Republican or otherwise.

It was also a right to own slaves at one time too. Just because there is a law making abortion on demand legal, does not make it right in my view. Laws change as people become more enlightened, they may have a change of view on the killing of a fetus. Even the woman who the Roe V. Wade case was filed for, Norma L. McCorvey, decided not to have the abortion afterall and even later became a Christian and member of Operation Rescue.

Just because of all those issues you mentioned, it still does not make it right to kill an innocent human life. I believe that qualifying the conditions in which a child should be born into is dangerous. Just as dangerous as it is to qualify the value of an elderly person living in a retirement home, no matter what that quality of that life is.

Human life is either special or it is not. Human life/human developement either begins at conception or it does not. In all respect, the debate begins there in my mind. Not in whether or not a child will be educated or have a nice house to live in.

Funny you should bring that up Del, see I think that's infringing on a persons right to a quality and meaningful life. I, personally, have made a living will to ensure that I will NOT be recesutated or put on life support sytems. AND I already have the plan for taking my OWN life if it ever comes to the point where I feel my life is no longer a 'quality' life...and I will define the term quality.

Have you ever had an old pet? My dog, who I had since he was 6 weeks old died, finally, at 17. The last year of his life I agonized daily about whether he should be put to 'sleep'. He had dementia, had lost all control of his internal functions (if you know what I mean) and couldn't eat anymore. I made him special homemade food every day, cleaned up his messes, cleaned him up and agonized...is he in pain? Is he enjoying life as it is? Thanfully, one painful night, nature took it's course and he passed. In my arms on the way to the emergency vet clinic at 3 a.m. I've also had to make the hard decision to take the life of many other pets based on their physical condition and ability to live a happy life.

Now I know I will get beat up for comparing an animals life with a persons life however...who's to say which form of life is more important?! I, personally, have more empathy for animals than people since they have no 'choice'.

By taking away 'choice' from a woman whether or not to give 'life' to a developing cell system in fact two lives may be forced to live without quality. I think a woman should have the right to determine if her child deserves to have a 'quality' life and sometimes that means not having a life at all. How many of the starving children in other countries do you think would really rather not be alive? They don't even have the energy to swat the flies off themselves....yes, let's just keep producing more and more lives....regarless of the quality becuase 'God' says so.

That aside, as Elizabeth has pointed out, it is a religious based decision. While I respect your dedication to your beliefs I'm rather disappointed in you that you can't seperate religion from government and that the abortion issue is a deal breaker for you. Why bother to even find out ANTHING about the candidates then? If you were the press, you'd have one question only for the candidates...yeah, that makes sense.

Of course you have to vote with your heart but let the rest of us who believe in seperation of religion and government vote with our brains.

[Pb Derigable]

Roe v. Wade is the worst decision ever.

To give women the right to do whatever based on whatever reason is absolutely sick to me. A better decision has to come down soon. I will allow it in some cases but not as means of a birth control measure.

Under 18 have to get parental approval.

You can't cross state lines to do it.

Married women must get approval of the husband and/or father.

Ill go 1 month since conception for women to do whatever they want after that the fetus can only be aborted for the safety of the mother and if the fetus were to be severely handicapped in his life.

Women have as much right as men do.

All abortions is murder, but like war, it's the cost we must pay to live.

[Uncle Bill]

While I respect your dedication to your beliefs I'm rather disappointed in you that you can't seperate religion from government and that the abortion issue is a deal breaker for you. Why bother to even find out ANTHING about the candidates then? If you were the press, you'd have one question only for the candidates...yeah, that makes sense.

A lot of voters are 1 issue voters, look at the % of blacks voting for nobama, 95+%.

When I've decided in the past to vote for for a major party(rarely), I've often found myself in the position of the them putting up 2 candidates I disagree with on almost all issues, so I end up picking the one issue I find most important, usually national defense.

[Pb Derigable]

A lot of voters are 1 issue voters, look at the % of blacks voting for nobama, 95+%.

When I've decided in the past to vote for for a major party(rarely), I've often found myself in the position of the them putting up 2 candidates I disagree with on almost all issues, so I end up picking the one issue I find most important, usually national defense.

Yeah thats a hell of an issue for the commander in chief.

It's wierd B. Hussien Obama can spend 20 years in a church and can't come up with an answer to a moral question, but he can spend two weeks in the senate and can give an answer on how to protect this country.