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TULedHead

The Next President of the USA will be?

Who will win the Presidency in 2008?  

282 members have voted

  1. 1. Who Wins in 2008?

    • Hillary Clinton
      47
    • Rudy Giuliani
      9
    • John Edwards
      7
    • Mike Huckabee
      7
    • John McCain
      42
    • Barack Obama
      136
    • Ron Paul
      21
    • Mitt Romney
      9
    • Bill Richardson
      1
    • Fred Thompson
      3


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I am suprised that you would say such a thing and then support Obama. Obama is the one that is the "Same old politics" of voting straight down the old party line. McCain has been reffered to as a "Maverick", one that will not sell himself out, one that has worked with both sides of the isle on many occasions. Even to the point of offending his party many times. Now that is "Change", not just a empty talking point. McCain has done "Change" with actions, unlike Obama who has just done it with empty words.

You can make the argument that the McCain of 2000 was a "Maverick" one that would go against his party on a view issues. However, McCain in this Campaign has not had the courage to stand by previous positions for the simple fact that he needed the support of the republican base. He sold out for personal ambition. Example would be his opposition to the bush tax cuts where McCain said in 2003 that in a time of war a President of the United States has never cut Taxes and that it was morally irresponsible, McCain of 2008 has changed his mind and now supports those tax cuts for the wealthest Americans instead of rolling back those tax cuts and giving them to the poor and middle class who by the way are struggling in this country. Barack Obama proposes this plain, McCain does not. A clear indication of where his alliegance is and who he will looking out for.

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Example would be his opposition to the bush tax cuts where McCain said in 2003 that in a time of war a President of the United States has never cut Taxes and that it was morally irresponsible, McCain of 2008 has changed his mind and now supports those tax cuts for the wealthest Americans instead of rolling back those tax cuts and giving them to the poor and middle class who by the way are struggling in this country. Barack Obama proposes this plain, McCain does not. A clear indication of where his alliegance is and who he will looking out for.

This is an often repeated but incorrect assertion.

Progressivity and the Tax Burden

Our tax system, however, is highly progressive, meaning that as one's income rises, a higher proportion of that income is taxed. Thus, those in the highest tax brackets contribute more to the overall tax burden even though there are far more people in lower tax brackets.1

* According to data from the IRS, the bottom 50 percent of income earners pay approximately 4 percent of income taxes.

* The top 25 percent of income earners pay nearly 83 percent of the income tax burden, and the top 10 percent pay 65 percent.

* The top 1 percent of income earners pay almost 35 percent of all income taxes.

* The top 400 richest Americans paid 1.58 of total income taxes in 2000.

The Myth of Spending Cuts for the Poor and Tax Cuts for the Rich

During the 2005 budget reconciliation debate, critics claimed that Republi­cans were cutting spending for the poor to pay for tax cuts for the rich; however, the facts simply do not support these overheated claims and the accusation that poor families are shouldering more of the tax burden while receiving less of the spending is empirically false.

* From 1979 through 2003, the total federal tax bur­den on the highest-earning percentage of Americans -- who earn 52 percent of all income -- rose from 56 percent to 66 percent of all taxes.

* Their share of individual income taxes jumped from 65 percent to 85 percent.

* On the spending side, antipoverty spending has leaped from 9.1 percent of all federal spending in 1990 to a record 16.3 percent in 2004.

The data clearly show that the tax burden is shifting annually up the income scale while spending continues to move down the scale; the people with the highest incomes are paying more of the tax burden while the poor are receiving more of the spending.

Moreover, the persistent increase in federal antipoverty spending fosters an unhealthy depen­dence on government. For example:

* From 1990 to 2005, the Medicaid caseload doubled to 55 million participants, meaning that the government increas­ingly is taking over the health care system from pri­vate companies and from community and charitable organizations, thus eroding self-reliance, independence, and local community responsibili­ties.

* The measure of the effectiveness of government antipoverty programs is not how many people are trapped into financial dependence on the govern­ment, but how many people succeed in freeing themselves from dependence on the government.

Furthermore, the mathematically impossible principle that income tax relief should be concentrated among families who pay no income tax pre­vents any consideration of legitimate tax relief or tax reform. Additionally, the misperception that higher tax rates induce substantially higher tax revenues among upper-income taxpayers trans­lates into pressures for tax increases that harm eco­nomic growth without substantially increasing tax revenues.

source

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Hiya dude! :wave:

Welcome back. How was your fishing trip?

How many trout did you catch.. and release? :D

My son and I caught about 35 fish in two days. Probably released ten of them (too small to cook) and then kept the rest to eat and give away to friends.

Mind you that these were all stocked fish caught in a lake, no natives and none caught in breeding streams. Just because I am a hunter of animal protien, does not mean I am irresponsible. :D

Yes Del, we know you righties favor "simple, decisive and unrealistic" over "complex, thoughtful and realistic". I bet you got erect (you know, stood up) and cheered when John "Can I tell you a POW story" McCain promised to "chase Osama to the gates of hell!", huh? :lol: And I bet John "I've got 10-homes and I'm worth $100 million" McCain even managed to convince you that you're "rich", huh? You know, cuz you have "a home, a good job and an education". :D Haha! You righties are so gullible. :P

Actually I like the clear decisivness in both his answers and his convictions. He reacted like I would expect from a fighter pilot. Knowing what was in front of him, and how he needed to respond. Obama's "complex reflective style" really just seemed like he was searching for answers that he thought the listeners wanted/need to hear. While at the same time trying to play a balancing act so as not to jeapordize his own followers. Not a way for a politician to convince the undecided voters (which is really what these forum/debates must be about for a canidate).

Obama's answers were quite frankly a bit weak, even if he also made some correct replys. For example: Obama's answer to what it meant to be a Christian was both theologically correct and direct. Obama proffessed to be "saved by faith through Jesus Christ" -- Something that McCain either feels uncomfortable with saying in those terms, or may not even be able to define as concisley (in theological terms) as Obama did. But that's okay, because McCain then when on to tell his anecdotal story about finding another Christian, a North Vietnamese guard, and sharing his understanding about being Christian in those terms. For a man who has been at odds with Evangelicals for a long time, I can tell you that McCain's style of answering those questions scored points where he need to. And then add to that his clear stand on abortion and supreme court judges, and McCain in one hour effectively put a major part of the Republican constituents at ease... (at least until he announces a running mate).

I personally saw a bit of Ronald Reagan's direct style the other night in McCain's answers. Something that I'm sure you don't appreciate, but you can't deny what that effect is with conservative/traditional independent voters in the battleground states.

Obama went into the viper's den on Saturday and he did pretty well I thought. He stayed true to his beliefs, and he gave thoughtful replies to difficult questions regarding complex issues. I was impressed with how Pastor Rick conducted the forum. Kudos to them both. And yes, McCain did seem to have a more black-and-white view of things (what you call "decisive").. and he seemed more simplistic.. and unrealistic.

I wouldn't exactly call it a vipers den --- at least not like the one McCain saw when speaking before the NAACP. But like you said, Obama was treated very well by Warren and the people in attendence. Quite warmly too you should admit.

But unfortunatly for Obama he really isn't very good in these types of forums. Whenever he is asked to go outside his prepared speeches, Obama comes off as lost in trying define who he is and what he stands for. Where McCain was quick to point out his moral failure with his first marriage in a clear and decisive answer, Obama missed the oppourtunity to do the same with his 'Revernd Wright fiasco.' What Obama could have done was at least admit to a small lack of moral judgement, just a small abount, with a reference to being part of a "misdirected" preacher. If Obama would have seized that opportunity the other day, he might have effectively taken any chance for others to use that against him in the coming months. Just as McCain STOLE any potential for his detractors to use his ugly divorce for negative comments.

Yep, Obama missed a big chance with his sort of 'weasle speak' reply.

So far in this campaign John McCain has made "jokes" about bombing Iran, about domestic violence, and about bestiality (the latter during a forum in a church amongst evangelicals). In the past he's made jokes about rape. And about Corsi's smear book, McCain says "you gotta keep your sense of humor". Apparently a vote for McCain is not just a vote for four more years of failed Bush foreign and domestic policies, it's also a vote for four more years of inappropriate jokes and a president with a sub-sophomoric sense of humor.

Since when does "sub-sophomoric" humor make a difference? Just look at Bill Clinton!

Oh sorry....

That was not "sense of humor" that was actual sub-sophomoric BEHAVIOR.

Sorry, but I won that last round

:D

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I see all this bickering over these two candidates that should be running for dog catcher rather than president. I can\'t believe the country has come to this. We will be laughing stocks to other nations. McCain is the lesser of two evils in my book. The guy that said people are figuring out this Obama dude is right on the money. He will lose. How about that dumb comment on conception? He really got caught with his pants down on that one.

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"srplane",.. are you unable to answer the questions I asked of you -->

If you will though,.. please clarify for me:

Do you think Barack Obama is a Muslim.. or a Christian?

Do you think he's "anti-America".. or a patriotic American?

Do you think he and Michelle Obama are racists?

And while you're at it, perhaps you might clarify for me your seemingly contradictory beliefs about Barack Obama. You rail against him as being a "party-line liberal" (or some version thereof), and yet at the very same time you rail against him for "not standing for anything at all". Which is it? Does he stand for the left wing agenda, or for nothing at all? :whistling:

..or are you simply avoiding them? :rolleyes:

You've read Corsi's "scholarly" book, right? (well, you've looked at the pictures anyway, I figure). You oughta be able to answer these few simple questions. Is Obama a Muslim or a Christian? ..is he anti-America" or a patriotic American? ..are he and Michelle racists? ..is he a party-line liberal or does he not stand for anything at all?

C'mon man, what say you?! :cheer:

Edited by Trouble-Free Transmission

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Answers:

I think that he has been both Muslim and Christian.

The only proof you have is a spam email you got 3 months ago.

Is he Anti American, no but I would feel a lot better with McCain running our armed forces. I think that Obama would let our military fall back into the shambles that it was when Carter was in office.

Are he and his wife racist? I do not have a crystal ball to say if they are, but there is an old saying that goes, " If you really want to know about someone, look at who their friends are". Rev. Wright is bad news, and Obama had this guy marry him, baptise his children, and treats him like family.

And you think McCain stands with better company? Perhaps you should dig up some of his old buddies and his families friends eh?

is he a party-line liberal?

YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, YES, !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed

Does he stand for anything at all? Yes, just for about everything that I am against. And, it really makes me sick now that McCain is looking like "The comeback Kid" (A little Clinton refference for you libs out there) how Obama is trying to act like a conservative. After his latest foolish "non answer" about when life begins, he will probably now become Pro Life for a few weeks. Next we will see him at a shooting range telling everyone that he is a gun collector. I'm sorry hermit, I think the guy is a phony.
You stand against everything that he's for? :huh:

Thats actually quite impossible since you claim to be such a big Billary fan...she and Obama have very similar political stances so how can he "stand for everything you are against"? Thats contradictory

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And you think McCain stands with better company? Perhaps you should dig up some of his old buddies and his families friends eh?

If McCain had any friends such as Rev. Wright the liberal media would have dug it up and we would have heard it by now, believe me.

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McCain would have had to drop out of the race. But there is your old double standard of the hypocritical major media. They, like many around here are Obama groupies.

They sure swept John Edwards under the carpet didn't they? :lol:

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If McCain had any friends such as Rev. Wright the liberal media would have dug it up and we would have heard it by now, believe me.

Not true whatsoever. How many times did you hear about George Bush's friends Osama Bin Laden or the House of Saud in 2000 or 20004...not a whole lot eh?

hermit claims this, not I. And yes, I am proud to say that I dissagree with at least 95% of what the old ultra leftist liberal Obama has said over his short unqualified political career. Now that he is becoming conservative it is back firing on him at all cylinders. The libs are mad and the conservatives know better.

First of all "Hermit" is here about as much as "Overthehillsandfaraway" is ok? You and your buddy SteveAJones made sure of that.

Secondly, Hillary Clinton (your goddess) is as liberal, if not more so, than Barack Obama is. Also, I'd say that he and Hillary agree on 95% of everything politics, so I guess you hate Hillary almost as much no?

Edited by wanna be drummer

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Not true whatsoever. How many times did you hear about George Bush's friends Osama Bin Laden or the House of Saud in 2000 or 20004...not a whole lot eh?

His relations with the Saudis was well known by 2004 I would say. If it was such a big issue it sure didn't help the dems any in that election did it?

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His relations with the Saudis was well known by 2004 I would say. If it was such a big issue it sure didn't help the dems any in that election did it?

Thats my point. Every politician has skeletons. Obamas is in the postlight. Why aren't McCains? Why weren't Bush's (before 2004 if you really think it was so well-known then)? Friends don't make the person, nor do they wreck or save them (usually). Wright will not destroy Obama just as the Saudis and bin Laden did not take down Bush

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Thats my point. Every politician has skeletons. Obamas is in the postlight. Why aren't McCains?

Maybe because McCain is smart enough not to associate with people who preach hate-filled anti-American sermons?

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Maybe because McCain is smart enough not to associate with people who preach hate-filled anti-American sermons?

Perhaps not anti-American, but he has had shady friends who are anti-American, same as Obama

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Hillary is a pathetic joke too. Hate is a strong word, but I do dissagree with her politics as much as Obamas. They are one in the same. Two bags of hot air. McCain, can you say "Come back Kid"? It is great to see the Dems self distructing each day. Who knows what their puppet handlers will tell them to put a spin on tomorrow. It's better then a soap opera.

Out to buy more books, are there any on E Bay?? LOL

First of all, I don't believe you at all. Who're you trying to fool...?

And about books...what the hell are you talking about?

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Maybe because McCain is smart enough not to associate with people who preach hate-filled anti-American sermons?

He's a military man...he knows how to stay under the radar B)

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He's a military man...he knows how to stay under the radar B)

Amen to that Medhb. Obama is the biggest blunder I've seen in politics in a long time.

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His relations with the Saudis was well known by 2004 I would say. If it was such a big issue it sure didn't help the dems any in that election did it?

It didn't help any HUMANS! How that guy got elected to the first term was a miracle...the second? How does lightning strike twice? Frightening! This entire country should be embarrassed of ourselves....what a boob that guy is.

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Amen to that Medhb. Obama is the biggest blunder I've seen in politics in a long time.

She's an Obama supporter...clearly you misunderstood her post

While I like President Bush, in response to your statement all that I will say Is Bill Clinton. He was elected twice.................. goes both ways.
He wasn't too terrible...a pretty conservative guy compared to most Democrats Edited by wanna be drummer

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Wanna be, in regards to if you believe me or not, do you think that I really could care less?

Yes

As far as my buying books. Your friend hermit made this rediculous statement about the new obama book:

Sooooooooooooooo, Im out trying to buy all that I can.

Pfft like I would read it. I don't like Obama by any shred of the imagination nor am I some liberal tool. But, if one is to argue against him, one must use actual means of doing so. Not "He may have been a Muslim" or some crap like that. You don't like his health care policies? Me neither. But if its for some bull shit reason, I have to call it out. The Presidency should be based on merit and policies...nothing more or less

Edited by wanna be drummer

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She's an Obama supporter...clearly you misunderstood her post

He wasn't too terrible...a pretty conservative guy compared to most Democrats

What a bunch of morons. This country was fine with Billy Clinton as it would have been with Hillary. Now you want to turn it over to this racist black? Fucking dumb youth in this country will bring us down. McCain must wiin. And I am a Dem. I hate Republicans, but hate Obama much more.

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What a bunch of morons. This country was fine with Billy Clinton as it would have been with Hillary. Now you want to turn it over to this racist black? Fucking dumb youth in this country will bring us down. McCain must wiin. And I am a Dem. I hate Republicans, but hate Obama much more.

um...why? He and Hillary are very similar..

Oh you think he's racist? Bad reason. No one has yet to really prove it. The only definite thing is his pastor probably is...still a bad reason

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Why do I feel like we've heard pageforever's shtick before? And srplane's for that matter. What really rankles me, isn't the back and forth between the Dems and Repubs on this board. It's the fact that all the Repubs (with a few exceptions) sound the same. They all have the same 10 things to say about Obama, Clinton, Americans who identify themselves as liberal/Democratic. It's like they're all reading off the same script.

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Wanna be, I just do not think that Obama is qualified to be the President of the United States. You pick one thing that I stated a few posts back as far as him being "Muslim". I did not say that I hold it against him if he ever was Muslim. I was asked a question and I gave my answer. I stated other reasons that I do not support Obama.

Please answer for me:

Who would be a better Commander in Chief?

Why did Obama spend so much time with Wright?

Who do you think would work better with both Republicans and Democrats?

Why can't Obama say when he believes life starts?

I could go on and on but it would start to look like a hermit response.

And McCain at least paid his dues. Fought in a war and was lucky to get out alive. He is more worthy than Obama. Why should I vote for Obama. Give me one good reason? There are none. The "we are due for a black guy shit doesn't sell me. We shoudl have had a women and she was shot down for what? Becuase her husband fucked around? What did she do? Nothing. Fuck Obama. He is going down.

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The country is going to hell in a hand basket and it will not matter who is President. Its the idiocy within the population of this land.

Be a part or apart from it.

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