The Next President of the USA will be?

[icantquityoubabe]

No one said it will be easy for a black man or a woman to beat an established repub. It wont be easy. But right now the national polls show that Obama would beat McCain by a larger margin than Hillary would. Both margins are small. But you still seem to be in denial of the fact that if Hillary is the dem nominee (or is even on the ticket), republicans will come out in droves to vote against her on election day. They wont be voting for McCain, they'll be voting against Hillary. Republicans simply cannot stomach the idea of Hillary being POTUS or VP, but many can at least stomach the idea of Obama being POTUS. Stop denying that fact and start considering it, bud. It's reality. There's a reason repubs (like Rush Limbaugh for example, who's encouraging repubs to vote for Hillary in their states' primaries) want Hillary to get the nomination. Think about it.

"If Hillary wins some that supported Obama may just sit it out. If Obama wins many will either sit or cross party lines", you say. I totally disagree. When it comes to the dem nomination, I think you and your "I'll sit it out or crossover if my preferred candidate doesn't get the nomination" mentality is incredibly short-sighted (and insane) and not representative of how most democrats feel. Most democrats what a democrat to be the next POTUS, whether its Obama or Clinton. Both have strong support, and both have said they'd support the other if he/she gets the nomination. Both candidates have emphasized that we need a "unified party" going into the general election, and thats what we'll have... if Hillary's low brow campaign tactics dont totally fuck that up for the party, that is.

I've not heard any (well, ok,.. not many anyway) Obama supporters say they'd sit it out if Hillary gets the nomination. However, Hillary is doing a really good job of alienating Obama supporters in general, and black voters in particular. If she doesnt disavow Geraldine Ferraro's race-based comments about Obama and fire Ferraro from the Clinton campaign, Hillary may in fact lose the African American vote and thus doom her chances of ever winning in the general election, should she get the nomination, that is.. which it looks more and more is not gonna happen.

Are you connecting all the dots, bro?

btw,.. I was just kidding when I said "and insane". But the "sit it out or vote for McCain (instead of Obama)" mentality of a Clinton supporter such as yourself is so lacking in any sense or logic that it's truly.. .. mind boggling.

For one thing. Admit it or not, Obama is a mystery to us. We know what we are getting with Hillary. And as for the black vote, they are voting for skin only. The Mississippi numbers say it all. 91 % of blacks voted for Obama. that number shows a racist vote. Absolutley! Is it fair to vote for a man becuase he is black only and to have the metality that its time for a black president? I am much happier to see this new blind black governor in my state of NY, because this guy has been around. (Spitzer is another disapoionting story in himself). Im so pissed at him for f--cking up and making us Dems look bad AGAIN. I wanted Hillary long before I ever heard of this Obama, so yes I am a Clinton supporter. Ill wait and see how it unfolds. As many have said before, never count a Clinton out. And dont believe these exit polls too much. Remember the announcement that Gore was going to win and in fact had won? And that Kerry was going to win?

[Bonham]

For one thing. Admit it or not, Obama is a mystery to us. We know what we are getting with Hillary. And as for the black vote, they are voting for skin only. The Mississippi numbers say it all. 91 % of blacks voted for Obama. that number shows a racist vote. Absolutley! Is it fair to vote for a man becuase he is black only and to have the metality that its time for a black president? I am much happier to see this new blind black governor in my state of NY, because this guy has been around. (Spitzer is another disapoionting story in himself). Im so pissed at him for f--cking up and making us Dems look bad AGAIN. I wanted Hillary long before I ever heard of this Obama, so yes I am a Clinton supporter. Ill wait and see how it unfolds. As many have said before, never count a Clinton out.

Why Clinton, man? Can't you see she's a psycho?

I'd rather have Obama over her and that's saying a lot.

[icantquityoubabe]

Why Clinton, man? Can't you see she's a psycho?

I'd rather have Obama over her and that's saying a lot.

Dude. You are on the other side of the Pond! Hillary will take better care of the Brits than this Obama guy. she already knows them.

[Hermit]

I have read Obama on Obama. I read, my friend.

I want you to answer me this. Why does he want the war in the Middle East to continue, but vows to end it if he gets Presidency?

Why not vow to end it now? Do you think if that's how he feels that he'd really end it if he does become President?

Edit: I understand that unless he is President, then he can't really end the war there. But he should support his claim by wanting to end the war now.

Where has he said he "wants war in the middle east to continue"?

I'm fairly sure he'd prefer peace, stability, and security in the middle east.

Obama has said very clearly that he'll end the war in Iraq. And he will. And yet, there is still an ongoing war being waged in Afghanistan, remember? [And afghanistan is in the middle east, ya know?] Its a war that under GWB's (mis)leadership we're losing. We were winning that war before Bush decided to turn his attention to Iraq, remember? The Taliban is regaining control, and it was under the Taliban rule that Al Qaeda had free reign to establish training camps in Afghanistan, remember? Do you remember 9/11? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but Afghanistan did, remember? Do you think any POTUS (other than Bush) would allow that to happen again by allowing the Taliban and Al Qaeda to regain control of Afghanistan? Under Obama that war would get the attention and resources it requires.

Why are you upset with Obama for taking a wise and responsible position about Afghanistan? Why do you think that makes him unfit to be POTUS? How on earth is it that you think that makes him inconsistent with regard to his position on ending the war in Iraq?

[icantquityoubabe]

Where has he said he "wants war in the middle east to continue"?

I'm fairly sure he'd prefer peace, stability, and security in the middle east.

Obama has said very clearly that he'll end the war in Iraq. And he will. And yet, there is still an ongoing war being waged in Afghanistan, remember? [And afghanistan is in the middle east, ya know?] Its a war that under GWB's (mis)leadership we're losing. We were winning that war before Bush decided to turn his attention to Iraq, remember? The Taliban is regaining control, and it was under the Taliban rule that Al Qaeda had free reign to establish training camps in Afghanistan, remember? Do you remember 9/11? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but Afghanistan did, remember? Do you think any POTUS (other than Bush) would allow that to happen again by allowing the Taliban and Al Qaeda to regain control of Afghanistan? Under Obama that war would get the attention and resources it requires.

Why are you upset with Obama for taking a wise and responsible position about Afghanistan? Why do you think that makes him unfit to be POTUS? How on earth is it that you think that makes him inconsistent with regard to his position on ending the war in Iraq?

How can you be so sold on a man of so little experience? This world is in bad shape. This is not a job for a rookie. the two saddest days of my life (well two of) were when I had to wake up and find out Gore and Kerry had the fucking elections stolen from them from Bush. Said Id never vote again. But my record with elections is about as good as with Super bowls. Dont be so hard on Hillary. She has been through much and is a tough cookie. Why do you people hate her so much??

[Bonham]

Where has he said he "wants war in the middle east to continue"?

I'm fairly sure he'd prefer peace, stability, and security in the middle east.

Obama has said very clearly that he'll end the war in Iraq. And he will. And yet, there is still an ongoing war being waged in Afghanistan, remember? [And afghanistan is in the middle east, ya know?] Its a war that under GWB's (mis)leadership we're losing. We were winning that war before Bush decided to turn his attention to Iraq, remember? The Taliban is regaining control, and it was under the Taliban rule that Al Qaeda had free reign to establish training camps in Afghanistan, remember? Do you remember 9/11? Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but Afghanistan did, remember? Do you think any POTUS (other than Bush) would allow that to happen again by allowing the Taliban and Al Qaeda to regain control of Afghanistan? Under Obama that war would get the attention and resources it requires.

Why are you upset with Obama for taking a wise and responsible position about Afghanistan? Why do you think that makes him unfit to be POTUS? How on earth is it that you think that makes him inconsistent with regard to his position on ending the war in Iraq?

Umm.. how did Afghanistan have anything to do with 9/11? All I seem to remember is Bush and his cronies accusing arabs who live in caves. Did we see a drop of evidence?

I'm quite sure Obama means Iraq by the way. It is called the "War in Iraq", I mean there is a "War on Terrorism" going on there. Although, I know it isn't a war and you can't wage war on terrorism, it's impossible.

[icantquityoubabe]

Umm.. how did Afghanistan have anything to do with 9/11? All I seem to remember is bush and his cronies accusing arabs who live in caves. Did we see a drop of evidence?

I'm quite sure Obama means Iraq by the way. I mean it is called the "War in Iraq", I mean there is a "War on Terrorism" going on there. Although, I know it isn't a war and you can't wage war on terrorism, it's impossible.

Someone needs to tell Hermit that both sides have been nasty. Not just Hillary. I mean, bringing up the Monica thing? Like that was her fault. Get real.

[Bonham]

Someone needs to tell Hermit that both sides have been nasty. Not just Hillary. I mean, bringing up the Monica thing? Like that was her fault. Get real.

Have I said anything about Hillary or Monica? I think you have me confused, mate. Obviously, you thought I was "Canadien".

[icantquityoubabe]

Have I said anything about Hillary or Monica? I think you have me confused, mate. Obviously, you thought I was "Canadien".

I wouldnt do that to you!!

[wanna be drummer]

Dude. You are on the other side of the Pond! Hillary will take better care of the Brits than this Obama guy. she already knows them.

And we care about the Brits...why?

Someone needs to tell Hermit that both sides have been nasty. Not just Hillary. I mean, bringing up the Monica thing? Like that was her fault. Get real.

Wheres my popcorn smiley?

I'm looking forward to a response of your nature Hermit, don't let me down

[redrum]

I found it kinda funny that Letterman was harping that Spitzer resign and that if his wife 'had any brains' at all she would dump his ass in a minute, yet he kowtows to Hillary and pretty much kisses her butt most of the time.

[wanna be drummer]

How can you be so sold on a man of so little experience? This world is in bad shape. This is not a job for a rookie. the two saddest days of my life (well two of) were when I had to wake up and find out Gore and Kerry had the fucking elections stolen from them from Bush. Said Id never vote again. But my record with elections is about as good as with Super bowls. Dont be so hard on Hillary. She has been through much and is a tough cookie. Why do you people hate her so much??

How can you be sold on a woman with so little experience? Hillary has next to none. She's served, what, two terms in Congress? Whoopty fuckin do. She didn't do a damn thing while she was in there anyways. And please don't consider her little stay in the White House as "experience". If that were the case, Eleanor Roosevelt should've been president as much as FDR was!

The reason most people hate her is because she's extremely polarizing, and has been considered, from people who personally know her, a bitch. Plain and simple.

What, pray tell, do you like about her? You personally, have yet to really go in-depth why she's so much better than any other candidate. And please don't ignore this question like the other ones you've ignored

[Dzldoc]

If ANY candidate tells you that they will take us out of the middle east they are full of shit! There is NO way in hell we will do that. Think about it for a moment, if the flow of crude oil is interupted our economy WILL collapse! It will never happen period.

I wish there was another way but this is just the reality of it folks.

It has come to the end game us against them WAKE UP!

[The Rover]

Here's a Hillary Ticket your're not likley to see:

Hillary Clinton / Geraldine Ferraro

[sammygee]

Obama baby... let's hope so anyway... for all our sakes!

[zosodude13]

Obama baby... let's hope so anyway... for all our sakes!

welcome aboard the good-ship... USS Obama!!!

this is something I'm interessted in, how much does Australia care/discuss the election in the United states? that is something I've always wanted to know more about... how the election is viewes across the globe

[Wesley]

I found it kinda funny that Letterman was harping that Spitzer resign and that if his wife 'had any brains' at all she would dump his ass in a minute, yet he kowtows to Hillary and pretty much kisses her butt most of the time.

It only cost Bill a fat stogie or two. Letterman understands Hillary's thriftiness.

[Dzldoc]

Obama baby... let's hope so anyway... for all our sakes!

I've asked this several pages before and never recieved any more than sound bites for an answer so I'll ask again. "WHY"?

[Bonham]

And why would you say that? How ignorant.! Obama who?? You are blind. How do you think this new inexperienced so called polotician can lead this country to improvement over someone experienced like Hillary? Hillary is the right choice. If she does not win, we all lose. Especially on the home front. And I mean with medical. The war in Iraq-none of them can solve this with total certainty. Cantn you comprehend this Hermit and all you Obama bandwagon fans? His plan in Iraq is just as uncertain as anyone's. Wake up and smell the coffee.

I'm pretty sure that Hillary and Barack are both for the same cause ultimately. So what does it matter?

[Bonham]

Ask Hermit. And experience does matter. and Hillary can defeat the Republican machine!!

Ask Hermit what?

I don't really think Hillary is all that experienced either. The only way you can get experience from being a President is being the President.

[Dzldoc]

The Democratic Montra: If you want to live like a Republican, Vote for a Demacrat.

The Republican Montra: If you want to live like a Republican get off your ass and earn it

[Suz]

Ye bloody well meaning well intended englishman: she has been there. been through the battles. do I dare say who should rule England? not. Damn it man, you dont live here. This Obama is trouble. He is the devil in blue swead shoes. We need Hillary. Or let the damn Republicans win again. Obama is too much of a gamble.

Trouble? Come on Even though my mom is STILL not speaking to me for letting down all of womankind by not voting for Hilary....I am still not voting for Hilary.

[zosodude13]

well... this where my Obama support was decided...

this speech:

------------------------------------------------

Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances. The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don't oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton's army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain. I don't oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this administration's pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such tragedy from happening again. I don't oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism.

What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other armchair, weekend warriors in this administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income - to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression. That's what I'm opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics. Now let me be clear - I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity. He's a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history. I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda. I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the President today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's finish the fight with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let's fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe. You want a fight, President Bush?

Let's fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells. You want a fight, President Bush? Let's fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn't simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil. Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not -- we will not -- travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Barack Obama made this speech... against going into Iraq... on October 2nd

oh... by the way... that was October 2nd, 2002

so, dispite the "lack of experience"... he had the sense and judgement to know to not go into Iraq...

we know what Hillary felt then... and what she feels now regarding Iraq... her "experience" didnt help her judgement of the situation...

[Suz]

Fool

Oh, for Pete's sake.

[The Rover]

I found it kinda funny that Letterman was harping that Spitzer resign and that if his wife 'had any brains' at all she would dump his ass in a minute, yet he kowtows to Hillary and pretty much kisses her butt most of the time.

Hillary's got Letterman......

Obama's got Ophra