The Next President of the USA will be?

[The Rover]

Is Obama's Pastor of all these many years, merely a Louis Farakhan, by another name ? ? ?

Is Obama really a "George Wallace" Candidate, by another name ? ? ?

If John McCain's pastor had been a "David Duke", by another name, would not the "Press" be ALL OVER IT ? ? ? ?

A Black Pastor called in to Ingram's tak show today to express his disgust as these "Black Liberation Theology" Preachers, who he said "want us all to beleive that we're still 'on the plantation'".

He said that "Asians aren't bellyaching about whites.... the Asians are putting int he hours of study, and getting good educations, and moving up....."

He also said, "Our Mexian brothers are not complaining.... They are working hard and moving up.... for the most part they're just trying to get legal."

I do not have the definitive answer, but this is something to think about...

[Hermit]

Well Hermit, I will say that you are very well schooled on politics. I will admit I was more up to date in the last two and they left a very bad taste in my mouth (Gore and Kerry getting robbed-litterally). I am not giving up on Hillary. I believe she can still win it. I know she can. Another guy that Im sure you love, named Pat Buchanan, now dont laugh, said the other night she can still win the popular vote. She is expected to win Pennsylvania. And Florida will count eventually. Once they tally Florida, you Obama's lead will dwindle. And that will give the Superdelegates something to hang their hats on to be morrally correct in chosing Hillary in a virtual tossup. By the way, how do you seperate these quote sentences? Do you highlight and then hit the qoute button and then reply?? I dont want to wipe out everything I type, it aggravates me almost as much as this damn election. I really do believe that many right wing Bush republicans are probably thinking McCain will lose. They are hoping he wont but realistically they probably think that someone will have to pay for Bushs mistakes so let it be someone that is old, and expendable to the party. They then will hope that either Dem candidate makes more of a mess of Iraq and will come back and hammer us with it in 2112. Hillary won big in Florida. And that should count. It is only fair that it counts. So I will sit back and hope to God that Hillary pulls this out. It looks like you have a right winger on the thread to deal with also. A bigger fish to fry than me??? Have a nice day.

You keep expressing your preference for Hillary, but you still have not given any substantive argument that supports your claim that Hillary would be a better POTUS than Obama.

I hear that you prefer Hillary.

I acknowledge that you prefer Hillary.

I still have no idea why you prefer Hillary over Obama other than you've "always supported Hillary" and you prefer her healthcare plan over Obama's. Other than that, you've given no substantive argument to support your preference between the two candidates. Your claim that she has more experience has been debunked. Your rationale that she is known and Obama is unknown has been exposed as being flawed and specious.

You refuse to acknowledge that Obama was right about Iraq and Hillary was wrong.

The only thing you've been right about is that neither Obama nor Hillary will reach "the magic number" of pledged delegates required (2025) to secure the nomination outright (and as such Hillary is not mathematically out of the race yet). But the math of the election shows that she is far enough behind that she aint gonna catch up. She is NOT going to win every one of the remaining primaries by 60+ %, which is what she would have to do to catch Obama. It aint gonna happen.

Obama is the frontrunner; he has the momentum; he has won many more states; he has garnered more popular votes; he will finish the race with more pledged delegates (he currently has 1400 to Hillary's 1251). If the primaries end and those factors (momentum, states won, pledged delegates, popular vote) remain the same, Obama will have earned the nomination and the superdelegates will fall in line to support him. Heck, they may even start falling in line behind him before the primaries have concluded. Obama's been slowly gaining supers and Hillary's been losing supers.

The writing is on the wall.

Having said that, I dont expect you to give up on your candidate.

Remember the audacity of hope and.. hope away, friend!

But while you're hoping, maybe you can come up with some substantive

arguments for why you think Hillary would be a better POTUS than Barack, eh?

Because as you know.. hope alone doesn't get anything done; hoping and doing are two different things. Lets see you do something while you're hoping.. something like come up with a substantive argument in support of your preferred candidate.

C'mon, dammit,.. convince me I should hope Hillary gets the nomination!

Fwiw.. I'm not holding my breath.

This has been a fun discussion, icantquityou,... but until you come up with

something more substantive, there's nowhere left for this discussion to go.

---------

btw.. regarding the quoting thing..

for each part of someone's post you want to quote, simply put (quote) at the beginning of the quote, and (/quote) at the end of the quote,.. using brackets [ ] instead of parentheses ( ). That'll get it done.

When I do it, I copy and paste the entire first quote tag from the person's quote.. [you know, the part at the beginning that reads " (quote name='icantquityoubabe' date='Mar 14 2008, 05:54 AM' post='142396') " that you see after you first hit the "reply" button].. at the beginning of each part of the post that I want to quote, and I insert (/quote) at the end of each part of the post that I want to quote. When you do it that way, the quote header retains its function as a hotlink back to the original post from whence the quote came.

cheers.

[edited for typos]

[Hermit]

What say ye to this Hermit? Or have you given up the fight?

Spoken like a true Clintonista!

The one losing asking the one winning if he's given up yet.

Chill out, bucko. I'm not sitting at my computer waiting for your posts so I can

reply asap. I'll reply to your posts when I get around to replying to your posts.

..if you should henceforth say anything worth replying to, that is.

[Electrophile]

Why do you think he'd follow that up with a nasty response? To my recollection, he's been nothing but pleasant in his posts to you on this subject.

[Hermit]

Well Hermit, I know you will have a nice nasty response to this, but here goes. If Hillary wins, you get two for the price of one. ie you get Bill Clinton again and I think Bill Clinton is as smart a guy that has ever walked this damn Earth. Never mind that he cheated on his wife, that has nothing to do with how he ran the country. And the country did fine when he was in. so I will argue this piece by piece, as I dont like to bombard people with long drawn out posts as they are less likely to take the time to read it. Will continue later, unless you chose to ignore me which is what it seems you have chosen to do.

I haven't chosen to ignore you at all. I simply challenged

you to come up with something that's worth replying to.

And by golly you have!

I appreciate your candor about your "two for one" reason for supporting Hillary.

I thought Bill was a great POTUS,.. but his time in government has come and gone. He's doing some really fantastic things outside of politics.. and I hope after this election is over he'll continue putting his attention and effort into his *Clinton Global Initiative* project.

It seems to me the "two for one" rationale undermines the claim that Hillary deserves to be POTUS in her own right. Fairly or unfairly, that rationale raises the question: without "two for one".. without Bill there to guide her and support her and influence her.. would she be able to handle being POTUS on her own?

I think she would be to handle it, and I think she would make a fine POTUS

in her own right,.. which is why I wouldn't put forth the "two for one" argument.

Ive said it a hundred times in this thread: I think Hillary would make a fine POTUS.

[i'm not now gonna make your argument for you though as to why that is. ] [however,.. if you read back on the thread you may find that I've made that case several times over already. ]

Anyway,.. at this juncture I'm convinced that Obama would be even

better POTUS than Hillary. ..and even better than "Hillary and Bill".

Thanks for giving it your best shot, icantquityou.

Btw.. just because you didn't get a nasty response from me over your "two for one"

rationale, that doesn't mean you wont get hit by others for that rationale.

Btw 2.. what took you so long to reply?

j/k.

gotta run. catch ya later, friend.

[MadScreamingGallery]

Interactive timeline of Obama's life and career:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/12...A_TIMELINE.html

[Hermit]

Interactive timeline of Obama's life and career:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2007/12...A_TIMELINE.html

awesome interactive, MSG!

but.. uhh.. it seems they skipped over the part about him being a Muslim.

Thanks for posting that link!

[MadScreamingGallery]

awesome interactive, MSG!

Thanks for posting that link!

You're welcome, Hermit!

There is a related and very interesting article about Obama's mother and the important role that she played in shaping the man he is today. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/14/us/politics/14obama.html

Before finally settling back in the U.S. on a semi-permanent basis, my husband and I (along with our children) spent many years living and working abroad so the experiences of and worldview held by Obama (and his mother) resonates with us.

but.. uhh.. it seems they skipped over the part about him being a Muslim.

[Hermit]

Yeah. That will get him lots of votes! Being a Muslim. Why not just say he is related to Hitler.

Sarcasm is stating the opposite of an intended meaning especially

in order to sneeringly, slyly, jest or mock a person, situation or thing.

Facetiousness is treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor.

oh yeah,.. and..

The question mark (?), also known as an interrogation point, question point, query,

is a punctuation mark that replaces the full stop at the end of an interrogative sentence.

used as in.. "Why not just say he is related to Hitler?"

know what I mean, Vern?

[Matthew!]

Well that makes me want Hillary more than ever. After all is there not language in the Muslim Koran saying it is there job to get rid of all the christians and jews? I think so. After 9/11, Im sorry, I dont trust them at all. Look at what those bastards went through to kill our people. Acted like our friends and took flying lessons. I dont trust them. You can-not me.!!!!

I like it when people whine about racist voting and then condemn others for their religion. Please do that.

After all, isn't there language in the bible suggesting that women should submit to their husbands? Naturally, this means all Christians are sexist.

[Suz]

Your argument is not valid. Tell that to the people who lost their loved ones in 9/11! Tell that to the Muslim bitch who cheered on television when our firefighters and police lost their lives. Tell me that you fool. And when blacks vote black just for the sake of a candidate being black they are racists. 91% -the numbers dont lie. Take a statistics class and you will know what that says. If they can constantly use the race card when they shouldnt, then why cant I when the facts are clear as day. The muslims hate us. Why dont you fucking realize that. 9/11 guy!!

ALL of them? Wow, not my neighbors...not the kids my kid goes to school with....not my Muslim congressman...

p.s. I thought Obama wasn't a Muslim.

[Hermit]

Well that makes me want Hillary more than ever. After all is there not language in the Muslim Koran saying it is there job to get rid of all the christians and jews? I think so. After 9/11, Im sorry, I dont trust them at all. Look at what those bastards went through to kill our people. Acted like our friends and took flying lessons. I dont trust them. You can-not me.!!!!

here's a little clue for you, friend:

The sarcasm and facetiousness of the Muslim comment

is rooted in the fact that Barack Obama is NOT a Muslim.

You are entitled to your anti-Muslim bigotry, but at least don't compound

your ignorance with yet more ignorance by drawing Barack Obama into it.

Om Mane Padme Hung.

May all beings be free..

..from ignorance and hatred.

[The Bomber]

here's a little clue for you, friend:

The sarcasm and facetiousness of the Muslim comment

is rooted in the fact that Barack Obama is NOT a Muslim.

You are entitled to your anti-Muslim bigotry, but at least don't compound

your ignorance with yet more ignorance by drawing Barack Obama into it.

Om Mane Padme Hung.

May all beings be free..

..from ignorance and hatred.

Nice stuff Hermit,and btw,the only way to stop Hilary is to drive a stake through her *Ahem* 'heart',unless she gives up soon she will destroy the democratic party.

[Hermit]

And when blacks vote black just for the sake of a candidate being black they are racists. 91% -the numbers dont lie. Take a statistics class and you will know what that says.

If the Black candidate is the better candidate.. or is at least a very solid, entirely qualified candidate.. as Barack Obama is.. why does his getting 91% of the African American vote in Mississippi necessarily indicate racism?

Blacks in the south have a long history of racial oppression. The fact that they're voting in droves for a qualified Black candidate is not de facto indicative of racism. They're not voting against Hillary because she's White; they're voting for Barack because he's qualified and, yes, because he's Black. That is not racism. This is a rare opportunity for an African American to become the first ever African American POTUS. He is qualified. The fact that African Americans support him does not mean they are being racist.

Racism is about hatred, prejudice, and and bigotry. I'm guessing those 91% who voted for Barack do not hate Hillary on account of her being White (the Clintons have historically had wide support among the African American community, right?); they simply prefer Obama.. who is undeniably qualified for the job and deserving of their vote.

Your cry of racism.. and Geraldine's cry of racism (and sexism).. smacks of the sour grapes of two people whose candidate is losing. Not to mention the fact that your cry of racism is patently hypocritical given your bigoted comments about Muslims.

Well,.. ok,.. so I mentioned it.

Open your heart, friend. Rid yourself of hatred and

discover the love that that hatred is obscuring.

[Suz]

Pass the popcorn, please!

[Suz]

Tell me once and for all. What is this mans religious belief? Is he a christian, jew, muslim, or atheist or agnostic. Tell me!!

I've never given a rats ass, but I heard he was Christian.

[Hermit]

Well what is his current religion??? Is he a christian? an atheist?

Good lord, man.

Yes, he's a Christian. United Church of Christ. [*source*]

"The United Church of Christ (UCC) is a mainline Protestant Christian denomination principally in the United States, generally considered within the Reformed tradition, and formed in 1957 by the union of two denominations, the Evangelical and Reformed Church and the Congregational Christian Churches." [*source*]

That good enough for you?

and btw.. I'm done being your fact lackey.

From now on, look things up for yourself.

..your brain needs the exercise.

[Suz]

Ah. Finally an answer. Not to give a rats ass after 9/11. How did we feel 7 yrs after December 7th 1941? And the Japanese strike on Pearl Harbour was a stratgic military move rather than one of hatred like acts of Hitler and Bid Laden. How can you look at those pictures of 9/11 and hear what they say and say it doesnt matter. It matters to me. Hold it against me if you like. We shall always remember. 9/11

This is incredible. Are you saying that because I don't give a shit about someone's religion, I don't care about what happened on 9/11!? I will never forget that day for the rest of my life! I think you are confusing whole religions with the minority who are radical fundamentalists.

[The Bomber]

I would say that i'm a believer in socialism,particularly democratic socialism,but it's far too idealistic,look it up,it's a good theory.

Now,here i go:

Presidential governments suck,terribly,Parliamentary governments are far more democratic,but i could go on for ever about why the Irish parliament was actually communist until recently,the state owned EVERYTHING,there was MASS censorship,the government owned the media,transport,postal services,everything,in total,there have only ever been 5 years when Ireland was not under Fíanna Fáil rule,1973-'77,and'82-'83 were the only years that we didn't have that one party,which constitutes a one party state,it was formed by Éamon De Valera,my family has a big bone to pick with him,i'll explain later if you want,he murdered his way into power and left Ireland with only 26 of our 32 counties,now look,i've just posted a massive rant about republicans right?WE SHOULD FOCUS ON THE REPUBLICANS DAMMIT!They already have a candidate!But Hillary won't step down and let Barrack lead the party,they have already started their campaign and we are far behind!

[Suz]

Religion played its role in this day. They who did this evil act will tell you first and have already told us all. Before the planes hit the towers, what did those bastards say? I say to them, fuck alllah.

That's no different than saying fuck jesus! Remember Pat Robertson and Jerry fallwell? Those idiots said we brought it on ourselves because of gays and pagans and god knows what else!

[Uncle Bill]

Tell me once and for all. What is this mans religious belief? Is he a christian, jew, muslim, or atheist or agnostic. Tell me!!

http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian...

also from "about us":

A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.

maybe he should run for president of Africa

[The Bomber]

Religion played its role in this day. They who did this evil act will tell you first and have already told us all. Before the planes hit the towers, what did those bastards say? I say to them, fuck alllah.

DAMN YOU!Stop being racist,you just said it,fuck allah,all religion ever does is create wars,you just stereotype all Islamic peoples by the actions of one nut-job [And by the way,he's not in Iraq anymore,or ever was for that matter] What are you suggesting?Should muslims be denied access to America?One day in history is going to make you want to kill all Arabs?BULL CRAP!Everyone deserves equality,lets see,Gandhi=Hindu,Hitler=Christian,i could go on?

Look,maybe i overreacted,but you did too,Islamic people are great,for the most part.

[Hermit]

How can you look at those pictures of 9/11 and hear what they say and say it doesnt matter. It matters to me. Hold it against me if you like. We shall always remember. 9/11

Cut the melodrama, Mr Patriotism.

What happened on 9/11 matters to all of us.

----------

Following the 9/11 attacks, Obama was an early opponent of President George W. Bush's push to war with Iraq. Obama was still a state senator when he spoke against a resolution authorizing the use of force against Iraq during a rally at Chicago's Federal Plaza in October 2002.

"I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars," he said. "What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.""He’s a bad guy," Obama said, referring to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. "The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him. But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences," Obama continued. "I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda."

The war with Iraq began in 2003.

--

"We worship an awesome God in the blue states, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in the red states," he said. "We coach Little League in the blue states, and yes, we've got some gay friends in the red states. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq, and there are patriots who supported the war in Iraq. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the Stars and Stripes, all of us defending the United States of America." ~ Barack Obama, 2004 DNC

[*source of all the above material*]

---------

If those excerpts don't put to rest your doubts about Barack Obama..

If they don't convince you of his wisdom, intelligence, and sound judgment..

If that doesn't convince you that he is entirely qualified to be POTUS..

..nothing will.

But hey.. at least with Hillary you get... Bill too.

..right?

icantquityoubabe,.. I can quit you, babe.

buh-bye.

May your eyes, heart, and mind open wide, friend.

~H

[Suz]

I remember seeing a picture in the paper of an Irish man who had to carry his daughter to school, so she wouldn't be pelted with rocks by the people who didn't want them in their neighborhood, because they were a different religion. The look on that little girl's face is seared into my brain. If some Muslim girl at my daughter's school ilicits those same feelings of hatred in anyone here, we have a lot of fuckin work to do.

[The Bomber]

How about Afganistan

Low blow dude,low blow.