The Next President of the USA will be?

[icantquityoubabe]

I'm sorry for you that you've hurt in the past, icqyb. But your bigotry and generalized hatred for Muslims (and African Americans too, it sounds like to me) is a sign of ignorance. Your logic is flawed; you draw conclusions that are warped; and you lack any sense of clarity, discernment, or good judgment.

And if you think DRUNK is a man of good sense, you are truly awash in confusion.

DRUNK went to war as a blind Bush supporter; a flag waving, irate about 9/11 self-proclaimed American patriot. Before he enlisted in the military I disagreed with virtually all of his political points of views, but because he was willing to risk life and limb to fight for a cause he believed in, he earned my respect (for that much, anyway). And even though I oppose the war in Iraq, DRUNK did don the American uniform and served our country in combat, and for that I am grateful to him as I am to all who serve honorably in the military.. regardless of my feelings about any particular mission they may be assigned to.

The experience of going to war disillusioned DRUNK. He saw the reality of war; the brutality of war; and he lost his romantic vision of what it means to go to war. For a while he even realized that America is not above reproach and is far from being perfect. But unfortunately he returned from Iraq having traded in one ignorant and extreme point of view ("America is in every way the greatest country on earth") for another ignorant and extreme point of view ("America totally sucks and I'm moving to Europe where they've figured it all out"). He went from blindly following Bush to questioning him, which seemed like a good thing. Unfortunately he has since developed the opinion that Bush is a "genius" who has "fooled everyone", and he thinks that he alone recognizes the true brilliance of George W Bush. What further evidence does one need to know that DRUNK is not a man of good sense right now, eh?

Unfortunately, it seems, DRUNK was not made wiser by his experience in war, instead he was made even more angry and hateful than he was before he went off to war. My heart goes out to DRUNK for what I cant even imagine it was that he experienced, witnessed and did in Iraq, and for the struggles he's going through right now. I sincerely hope he's able to recover from his experience; that he's able to be healed so that his heart is not always filled with such anger and hatred; and that he finds a sense of inner peace. His generalized and irrational bigotry for all Muslims (including children, apparently) is evidence that he does not have inner peace right now.

Icqyb, I hope that you too will someday be healed of your emotional wounds and that you find inner peace. I hope that someday your anger, hatred will be replaced with a balanced, reasoned assessment of who poses a risk to you, your loved ones and your country,.. and who does not. Not every man, woman, and child who practices the religion of Islam poses a risk to you; nor does every African American man. Nor, for that matter, is every Jewish woman going to be unfaithful to their partner.. like yours unfortunately was to you.

Its pretty ironic that while you decry what you perceive (and misperceive) as other people being racist, at the very same time you openly proclaim your own racist beliefs and feelings. What's up with that, brother? You oppose Obama not based on his personal character or his qualifications, but rather because you mistakenly believe him to be a Muslim, and because he's African American. You cling to beliefs and attitudes about race and religion that wiser Americans.. and wiser people of the world at large.. are consciously trying to shed and move beyond. You sir, are a perpetuator of hatred, something the world needs less of not more of. Imho.

And btw,.. fwiw, I support peoples' right to burn the American flag. Does that make me an enemy of the state in your eyes? Imho, flag burning is a form of free speech, and I support peoples' right to freely express themselves in non-violent, non-harmful ways. I support peoples' right to burn the American flag every bit as much as I support your right to freely express your bigoted and hateful points of view and beliefs.

In my experience, the degree to which people feel hate is proportional to the degree to which they feel hurt. Clearly you feel very hurt, and for that you have my sympathy and empathy. I am truly sorry that you've had the negative, frightening personal experiences that you've had. I hope that you find relief from your suffering and from your hatred. I sincerely hope that your heart and spirit will mend some day. It is possible. It can happen today.. it can even happen right now.. this very moment.. if you choose it.

Peace to you, friend.

For the sake of ending this post on thread topic:

Go Obama!!

Hermit, you are a very intelligent dude. I respect your view but do not agree. but at least you have the maturity to talk about this unlike the little drummer boy. I cant deny I will never look at them the same after 9/11. How did the world view Japan in the days after Pearl Harbour? Simiiar Id say. But 9/11 makes Pearl Harbor look like a "Teddy Bear picnic" in the words of memeber here that I havent seen in a long time. The Musliims hate us. Drunk is correct on that one. They are our enemy. Make no mistake about it.

[bigstickbonzo]

If you know anything about Islamic terrorism, you would then know what is happening to our economy is and WAS their # 1 goal from day 1. They knew bleeding our economy dry would be the only way to actually crush the United States.

I'm sure edumacated folks like yourselves would have picked up on that, you know, having college degrees and all.

[wanna be drummer]

Hermit, you are a very intelligent dude. I respect your view but do not agree. but at least you have the maturity to talk about this unlike the little drummer boy. I cant deny I will never look at them the same after 9/11. How did the world view Japan in the days after Pearl Harbour? Simiiar Id say. But 9/11 makes Pearl Harbor look like a "Teddy Bear picnic" in the words of memeber here that I havent seen in a long time. The Musliims hate us. Drunk is correct on that one. They are our enemy. Make no mistake about it.

Where have I proven to be immature? I've kept compsoure this entire time, wheras you've simply said moron and dumbass.

Look into that mirror dude

Well you guys have a good old time. I have to go to church then I'm out for the night. Peace out nubs

[icantquityoubabe]

Where have I proven to be immature? I've kept compsoure this entire time, wheras you've simply said moron and dumbass.

Look into that mirror dude

Well you guys have a good old time. I have to go to church then I'm out for the night. Peace out nubs

These are matters that people feel very strongly about. Cant always control emotion. sorrry about that.

[Hermit]

.

Rather than continue to hijack (pardon the pun) this presidential election campaign thread, perhaps this racism, bigotry, terrorism discussion can continue in the *POL-Pourri: general political discussions* thread, eh?

[Nathan]

wanna be, I left Christianity. I am now Jewish.

icantquityoubabe, I'm angry at you and DRUNK. You two have absolutely no idea. None. You base your opinions on one group of people, not even admitting that they do NOT represent their entire religion. I'm justified in calling you bigoted, IMO.

DRUNK... yes, I absolutely trust my friends. If they truly support the terrorists, they would say so, because the terrorists have made their stance quite clear, and my friends have very big mouths. They are VERY vocal in what they believe. You always, always, always know what's on their minds. I believe my friends because they come to synagogue often. I believe my friends because I have no reason, and I mean NO reason, not too.

[icantquityoubabe]

.

Rather than continue to hijack (pardon the pun) this presidential election campaign thread, perhaps this racism, bigotry, terrorism discussion can continue in the *POL-Pourri: general political discussions* thread, eh?

Perhaps you are right Hermit. But it wont change the heated tone that will emerge with this these very emotional topics.

[Hermit]

Hermit, you are a very intelligent dude. I respect your view but do not agree. but at least you have the maturity to talk about this unlike the little drummer boy. I cant deny I will never look at them the same after 9/11. How did the world view Japan in the days after Pearl Harbour? Simiiar Id say. But 9/11 makes Pearl Harbor look like a "Teddy Bear picnic" in the words of memeber here that I havent seen in a long time. The Musliims hate us. Drunk is correct on that one. They are our enemy. Make no mistake about it.

In the interest of not continuing the hijacking of this thread,..

you'll find a response to your post.. *HERE*

[bigstickbonzo]

Perhaps you are right Hermit. But it wont change the heated tone that will emerge with this these very emotional topics.

The tone is heated because you're a racist jackass.

I do second the nod to get this bullshit outta this thread.

[bigstickbonzo]

Fuck off you New Jersey Devil!!!

Spoken like a true Christian.

[Hermit]

^^

*ahem*

Perhaps you are right Hermit. But it wont change the heated tone that will emerge with this these very emotional topics.

A heated discussion/debate/argument doesn't have

to be a disrespectful discussion/debate/argument.

The subject matter does not dictate the tone.

Each person is responsible for his or her tone.

[bigstickbonzo]

He is a horses ass.

For the last time, I'm not a Democrat.

[zosodude13]

so Hermit...

they is a little more then 5 weeks untill Penn, and it's Hillary's State to lose. In your opinion, what do you think Barack Obama needs to do to secure a win?

[Hermit]

Bob Graham: Iraq War Vote Was Commander In Chief Test

March 14, 2008

Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound eerily similar to Barack Obama's.

"I don't believe there is a school you can go to, to train to be commander-in-chief," Graham said in an interview with the Huffington Post. "I think the qualities you are looking for would include, judgment, the willingness to surround yourself with strong people, listening to a diversity of ideas and then forming a conclusion. I think curiosity is important.

"If there had been a little more curiosity in the fall 2002 -- if the questions had been asked -- [it] would have raised a lot of suspicions," he said, referencing the Iraq war authorization vote. "I think you have to look to see whether those qualities exist. And if they do, you have reason to believe that the person who has those qualities would become an effective commander-in-chief."

Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of America's armed forces.

"If you look at recent presidents, certainly George W. Bush didn't have any commander-in-chief experience, neither had Bill Clinton," he said. "George H. W. Bush had served in the military. Reagan didn't serve in the military. Carter was an Annapolis graduate. He was probably as close to what you would consider prepared to be commander-in-chief of the recent presidents."

*source*

---------

Barack Obama's pre-war position about Iraq:

"I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars," he said. "What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."

"He’s a bad guy," Obama said, referring to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. "The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him. But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences," Obama continued. "I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda."

*source*

If there is a Commander-in-Chief "test".. as Hillary Clinton suggests and as defined by Senator Graham.. it seems to me Barack Obama passed the test with flying colors, and is in fact the ONLY candidate who took the test and passed.

Congrats, Barack.. you've earned

your Commander-in-Chief degree!

[bigstickbonzo]

Barack Obama's pre-war position about Iraq:

"I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars," he said. "What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."

"He’s a bad guy," Obama said, referring to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. "The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him. But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences," Obama continued. "I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda."

*source*

Imagine if State of the Union Addresses were spoken like this..ie they made sense.

[zosodude13]

Barack Obama's pre-war position about Iraq:

"I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars," he said. "What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."

"He’s a bad guy," Obama said, referring to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. "The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him. But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences," Obama continued. "I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda."

Love that speech

its nice to see someone with foresight step into the political spotlight!

the truth is... Barack Obama is not change becasue he is bi-racial or because all 43 presidents have been white men... he is change becasue of this political beliefs and the ideas he brings to the table!

[zepyep]

Hi all,

Does the Middle_East need a flame up its arse? Sure it does! Right,it hasn't had one for,....a few thousand years.Remember folks,before you and everyone you know was born?

KB(Happy St Paddy's day!)

[zosodude13]

Hi all,

Does the Middle_East need a flame up its arse? Sure it does! Right,it hasn't had one for,....a few thousand years.Remember folks,before you and everyone you know was born?

KB(Happy St Paddy's day!)

please, unless your talking about the presidential election... please keep thses kinds of posts out this specific thread

thank you

[Hermit]

so Hermit...

they is a little more then 5 weeks untill Penn, and it's Hillary's State to lose. In your opinion, what do you think Barack Obama needs to do to secure a win?

Hi zosodude!

Given the delegate math, Barack doesn't have to actually win the Penn primary in order to come out the winner in the bigger picture. In order to catch up to Obama in the delegate race toward the nomination, Hillary has to win each and every remaining primary by garnering approx 60% of the vote. Each time she falls short of that percentage, the percentage goes up in the remaining state primaries.

Hillary is widely expected to win Penn. If she doesn't win by garnering 60% of the vote, it will be as good as a loss... though she will obviously tout it as a "big win" no matter how far short of 60% she falls. But based on the numbers, there's no pressure on Barack to outright win Penn, but in the game of perception (and in the popular vote race), its obviously in his best interest to get as many votes as he can.

fyi.. the ONLY contest so far that Hillary has won by garnering 60% or

more of the vote is.. (her home state of) Arkansas, where she got 70%.

Rhode Island 58%

NY (the state she represents in the Senate) 57%

Massachusetts 56%

Oklahoma 55%

Michigan (she was the only dem on the ballot) 55%

--

and a few others where she's been in the low 50's.

By contrast,.. Barack has garnerd 60% or

more of the votes in the following primaries:

Idaho 80%

Hawaii 76%

DC 75%

Alaska 74%

Kansas 74%

Washington 68%

Nebraska 68%

Colorado 67%

Georgia 66%

Minnesota 66%

Illoinois 65%

Mississippi 61%

N Dakota 61%

Wyoming 61%

Maryland 60%

---

Vermont 59%

Maine 59%

Wisconsin 58%

Louisiana 57%

Utah 57%

Texas (Caucus) 56%

S Carolina 55%

Based on the results so far, does it seem likely to anyone that Hillary is

going win EACH AND EVERY of the remaining primaries by 60% or more?

And remember, each time she falls short, the percentage she

needs to win by in the remaining contests goes up even higher.

[Are you getting that, icantquityoubabe?]

[zepyep]

Hi all,

please, unless your talking about the presidential election... please keep thses kinds of posts out this specific threadthank you

Sorry! Don't you think that whoever is going to be the next President of the USA will have to deal with the Middle_East?

Vote,please!For whoever you think will deal best with the worlds problems,since no one else will deal with them.

KB

[zosodude13]

great stats, hermit!

and, it doesnt help Hillary that several times, Obama has been trailing by double digets and Barcka has rallied for wins or very close loses

I just cant wait to vote for him in november! I dont know if its becasue hes the first Preisdent I could vote for, or because of the aura and excitemnt he brings to the election... but i feel like i am casting a vote for the betterment of history!

[zosodude13]

Hi all,

Sorry! Don't you think that whoever is going to be the next President of the USA will have to deal with the Middle_East?

Vote,please!For whoever you think will deal best with the worlds problems,since no one else will deal with them.

KB

sorry if my post was harsh... but the last 3-5 pages of posts have just made we wanna die... and after your post, and I didnt see anything about Barck Obama, John McCain, Hillary Clinton, Superdelegates, Pennsylvania, hope, change and ect...

I made a knee-jerk reaction...

i came back tot he thread to talk about the election... not middle east...

if you meant how the candidates will handle the middle east, i apologies for my post...

[Electrophile]

I just spent the last 35 minutes reading through the last 3 pages of this thread.

I wish I hadn't. I get home from work having to deal with idiots there, and now the Bigot Brigade took over this thread, one I had previously enjoyed reading. Wonderful. Thanks to Hermit for getting this thread back to the spirit in which it was intended.

Bob Graham: Iraq War Vote Was Commander In Chief Test

March 14, 2008

Former Sen. Bob Graham is staying neutral in the Democratic presidential race. But when it comes to defining the qualities that make a good commander-in-chief, he's espousing talking points that sound eerily similar to Barack Obama's.

"I don't believe there is a school you can go to, to train to be commander-in-chief," Graham said in an interview with the Huffington Post. "I think the qualities you are looking for would include, judgment, the willingness to surround yourself with strong people, listening to a diversity of ideas and then forming a conclusion. I think curiosity is important.

"If there had been a little more curiosity in the fall 2002 -- if the questions had been asked -- [it] would have raised a lot of suspicions," he said, referencing the Iraq war authorization vote. "I think you have to look to see whether those qualities exist. And if they do, you have reason to believe that the person who has those qualities would become an effective commander-in-chief."

Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of America's armed forces.

"If you look at recent presidents, certainly George W. Bush didn't have any commander-in-chief experience, neither had Bill Clinton," he said. "George H. W. Bush had served in the military. Reagan didn't serve in the military. Carter was an Annapolis graduate. He was probably as close to what you would consider prepared to be commander-in-chief of the recent presidents."

*source*

---------

Barack Obama's pre-war position about Iraq:

"I am not opposed to all wars. I'm opposed to dumb wars," he said. "What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne."

"He's a bad guy," Obama said, referring to Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein. "The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him. But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history."

"I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences," Obama continued. "I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda."

*source*

If there is a Commander-in-Chief "test".. as Hillary Clinton suggests and as defined by Senator Graham.. it seems to me Barack Obama passed the test with flying colors, and is in fact the ONLY candidate who took the test and passed.

Congrats, Barack.. you've earned

your Commander-in-Chief degree!

When/if he is inaugurated, I am throwing a huge party. In the words of Bob Dylan, the times, they are a-changing.

[zepyep]

Hi all,

When?

KB (i,e Congress?)

[Electrophile]

Hi all,

When?

KB (i,e Congress?)

That's right, "when". I used both words as the election has not happened yet, no one has won.