The Next President of the USA will be?

[zosodude13]

I hope you're not holding your breath, friend.

Uncle Billyboy and Pb don't support Obama or Clinton; they're just nattering naybobs who enjoy validating overthehillsandouttolunch's rabid Hillarymania and otherwise demeaning democrats and liberals. Overthehillsandouttolunch is so out to lunch that he thinks Uncle Billyboy and Pb are on his side. Overthehillsandouttolunch is also so out to lunch that he doesn't realize that Clinton and Obama espouse values and political policy ideas/plans that are very similar.. so much so that they're essentially running on the same platform. Outtolunch doesn't get it that if he supports Clinton, which he clearly does, he ought to also be willing to support Obama in the general election against the republican candidate.

Outtolunch's support for, and preference for, Clinton is politically reasonable enough (though his rationale most often isn't presented very reasonably), and I'm sure that you don't begrudge him his preference for Hillary any more than I do, zosodude. It's unfortunate though that he's so rabidly Pro-Clinton that he's become just as rabidly anti-Obama. He doesn't realize that (his) anti-Obama diatribe is harmful to the democratic party and is helpful to the republican party. He doesn't realize that his anti-Obama ravings and smears undermine the political agenda that he, as a Clinton supporter, shares with Barack Obama and other democrats at large.

We'll see if Outtolunch is able to identify any specific (and significant) differences between Clinton's and Obama's policy ideas. When he comes up empty handed, maybe he'll start to realize that there's really no need for him to keep demonizing Obama. Maybe. Unfortunately, I think the chances of his even trying to identify significant policy differences between Clinton and Obama is about as mathematically unlikely as Hillary's mathematical chances of winning the nomination via pledged delegates. Which brings me back to..

..I hope you're not holding your breath, friend.

this thread is logic vs. ignorance... just giving the other side a chance, thats all we have nothing to lose by asking, and your last paragraph is the reason why

aside from the fighting, we SHOULD be talking about the impact of John Edwards in less then 2 weeks... he is the last major dem still not taking a side and a fair amount of edwards supporters wont take a side untill he has something to say...

I said it before, if john takes barack's side... hill wont have undecided voters to go after... instead, she'll have to convice Obama people to join her... and this thread proves that us obama people are rather subborn and soild in their support, arnt they?

[Hermit]

this thread is logic vs. ignorance... just giving the other side a chance, thats all we have nothing to lose by asking, and your last paragraph is the reason why

Indeed.

It would be nice if we could bring Overthehills on board. I'm not asking, or expecting, him to give up his hope and support for Hillary, but it would be nice (and good for the democratic cause.. a cause that Hillary, one would think, supports) if he would open up to the possibility of toning down his anti-Obama/Obama-is-a-racist diatribe and maybe even start to consider the possibility of supporting Obama in the general election against McCain.. should, that is, Obama get the nomination and Clinton not get it. I don't know why Outtolunch sees us and Obama as political enemies. Our candidates have very different personalities and styles, but they do espouse similar political values and political policy ideas/plans. Our friend's demonizing of us and Obama doesn't make a Whole Lotta sense.. political or otherwise.. does it?

aside from the fighting, we SHOULD be talking about the impact of John Edwards in less then 2 weeks... he is the last major dem still not taking a side and a fair amount of edwards supporters wont take a side untill he has something to say...

You probably don't remember this but,.. John Edwards was my preferred candidate to get the nomination. It wasn't until he dropped out of the race that I threw my support behind Obama. I've been waiting and hoping (such audacity! LOL!) that Edwards would also throw his support behind Obama, and I've been a little disappointed in him for not having done so yet. That time, as you suggest, may be coming.*

We may see a split Edwards endorsement: Elizabeth for Clinton, and John for Obama.

I'd be okay with that.

* Edwards knows as we do that the math is clearly on Obama's side; and he knows the supers aren't gonna go against the pledged delegate results. In other words, he knows Obama has practically locked up the nomination. In that regard he may not endorse at all; he may stand by and simply watch the process work itself out (while thinking about what position he hopes he'll be considered for in Obama's administration *wink*AG*wink*). If however, the campaign gets uglier and starts to appear that irreparable damage may be done to the party, he'll step in and endorse before the party dooms itself in the general election. I'm guessing he'll endorse Obama. If he does, he'll be able to outright choose his position in the Obama administration.

Who knows for sure what he'll do? Not me; I'm just expressing a hunch.

I said it before, if john takes barack's side... hill wont have undecided voters to go after... instead, she'll have to convice Obama people to join her... and this thread proves that us obama people are rather subborn and soild in their support, arnt they?

You're absolutely right,.. an Edwards endorsement would be extremely significant. It would essentially seal the deal for Obama. Not only would Hillary be left with nobody but Obama supporters to win over (aint gonna happen), but once Edwards endorses he would also give his 18 pledged delegates to Obama and, more importantly, the flood gates of superdelegate endorsements would open for Obama. If Edwards endorses Clinton, she would get his 18 pledged delegates and he would lend her campaign a badly needed turbo-boost. She'd still have an uphill battle to fight (she still wouldn't likely catch Obama in the pledged delegate race), but she would definitely get an appreciable boost.

You're very astute, zosodude,.. people should keep an eye on Edwards.

[zosodude13]

I'm not sure if you've seen this or not, hermit, but its a great clip!

edWORDs

[Hermit]

I'm not sure if you've seen this or not, hermit, but its a great clip!

edWORDs

That was great!

Thanks for posting that; I hadn't seen it.

Hmmm.. that clip makes wonder..

I remember when people jumped all over Edwards over *the "preening" incident*. In retrospect, I cant help but wonder if Edwards wasn't really preening; maybe he was looking into his spy camera-phone-computer-GPS thingamajig. ..eh? ..maybe?

Thanks again for posting the link, zosodude.

[zosodude13]

That was great!

Thanks for posting that; I hadn't seen it.

Hmmm.. that clip makes wonder..

I remember when people jumped all over Edwards over *the "preening" incident*. In retrospect, I cant help but wonder if Edwards wasn't really preening; maybe he was looking into his spy camera-phone-computer-GPS thingamajig. ..eh? ..maybe?

Thanks again for posting the link, zosodude.

after you said you liked edwards, I decided you had to see that! nice to know he cares about the america people

and a jet ski

-------------

I liked edwards too, and I was gonna be happy with him or obama... originally, I thought he could be obama's VP, but since he was part of the "3rd America", AG would be a good position for him in barack's administration

I like Kathleen Sebelius for Barack's VP... she is a democratic governor in a "red state" (Kansas) so she has more crossover appeal to add to Barack Obama's appeal... you heard anything about a possible VP, besides her?

[zosodude13]

all because I live "out in the sticks" doesnt mean I bleed GOP red... just like your view on barack obama, your being rather judgemental over one thing, and not taking all things into consideration

I share some more conservative views then your average dem, but I am not a dem or a GOP or any party... I just choose the candidate who is the best... that this election, it happens to be Barack Obama (obviosuly you dont think that, but we'll see in the end who the amercain people choose)

adding:

and, if you didnt notice, a few pages back, hermit and I were butting heads over mccain... im not some mindless drone... sure I respect what he has to say and he always listens to WHAT WE ALL SAY but i can think for myself and still associate with someone I agree with

[zosodude13]

XXXXXXXOOOOOOOO

for some reason, this doesnt belong in the Other Band forum... unless you meant you love King Crimson so much, that you want to hug and kiss them... keep your shit in one thread... if you have a problem with me and hermit, keep it between me and hermit

[wanna be drummer]

Ok Mr Hilton. By the way, only two things come out of Hilton. Steers and queers. I dont see no horns. So what is it dude??

You Democrats are supposed to be about equality. Why do you hate gay people?

You've lost the argument, you've been made a fool of, and so you resort to personal attacks? Grow up

[zosodude13]

I already PMed the mods about you a few days ago... i can go get them at anytime...

fyi, they told me to PM them if you do something worth being banned for...

I know you said you know how to get back on, but being banned for a 3rd time should be a record or something... right?

[wanna be drummer]

I already PMed the mods about you a few days ago... i can go get them at anytime...

fyi, they told me to PM them if you do something worth being banned for...

I know you said you know how to get back on, but being banned for a 3rd time should be a record or something... right?

Joelmon (on the old board) was under like...15 different names so it's gonna be hard to beat. But seeing as how quick to insult in debates ICQYB is, it won't surprise if he does indeed, break the record

[wanna be drummer]

You are a little weasle rat fink Piss off you Hilton cow fucker.

You're a sad, sad little man ya know that?

Grow up and get a job you bum

[wanna be drummer]

You silly piece of shit know it all! You make me laugh with your tough guy pics and such. I wish you and that little prick zoso13 who has nothing better to do but run to mommy (mods) were here. Id show you what a little man I am. By punching your fucking lights out you prick.

Yes, I'm sure an older man who has nothing better to do than argue with people 1/4 his age is strong enough and has the skill enough to kick my ass

You ever even been in a fight? I'd bet my life you've never won one

Anywho, my "tough guy pics" are simply characters, nothing more. If it pleases Your Buffness I'll make them bunnies and carrots, not like I give a damn or anything. They're pictures. They can change. Your intelligence on the other hand...

[Pb Derigable]

I still find it funny that hermit is still trying to prove that he his right. Maybe he cried wolf too many times.

[wanna be drummer]

I still find it funny that hermit is still trying to prove that he his right. Maybe he cried wolf too many times.

Fact of the matter is Pb, Obamas got the numbers and he's got the support. Bills gonna lose the nomination and as it stands right now, she's gonna lose by a significant chunk.

[Mattmc1973]

Nobody likes crybaby little rat fink teeny boppers like you. You have seen how many elections in your life? Your mommy was changing your diapers when Clinton was in office wasnt she? Lose the fag look with that dumb ass hat you little prick.

Actually, nobody likes dickheads like you. It's like having a private treehouse club, and all the kids kick "Bob" out for being an asshole. And Bob keeps coming back to the treehouse wearing disguises trying to get back in. First it's a wig, and he says "uh, him, I'm....uh, Joe". "Nice try Bob, get the fuck out of here". Then Bob comes back with a fake mustache..."hi, I'm Tom, I'd like to get into your club". "Take a hint Bob, you're not fooling anyone, asshole". One might look at Bob, and think he's kinda pathetic, eh?

[Mattmc1973]

Ooooo, "Neanderthal", someone's been readin' a text book! Probably found it on the side of the dirt road, eh? You are clearly more advanced than me, being as enlightened and educated as you clearly are, so you must be a homo sapien?

[Electrophile]

You are a dumb ass Neanderthal arent you? As for you zosodude13 you are a mammas boy. and Wanna be a Drummer, I never thought you were only 17 based on your "pics". You are all a bunch of weasles that cant stand it when someone disagrees with your views. Go crying to the mods, help! Save me from this! Babies. You are a boring bunch. But Im not surprized by you Mr Neanderthal coming from Detreat. Worthless fucking city overun by criminals. Right where you belong.

"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain

[overthehillsandfaraway]

"Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt." - Mark Twain

Oh come on Lizzy. Why shall I be silent. You are all out to get me. Admit it. You want this forum all to yourselves and your little clique of youngsters, Forget us older members who have listened to Led Zeppelin and seen them in their prime. We dont count do we? You think you have special rights to this band dont you? You want to rat in everyone that does not agree with you. Eliminate and get rid of them? Then you can go back to your little world of Spats discussions and make this place so boring that nobody in their right mind would want to come back. Go ahead Liz, make my day.

[Electrophile]

You're paranoid. Seek help. Immediately.

[overthehillsandfaraway]

You're paranoid. Seek help. Immediately.

Paranoid? When you all try your hardest to get me banned? I wanted to pm the mods but cant find a link to do it. But zoso13 did his best to try and get me out of here a few days ago as he admitted. Why so? Because Im not voting for Obama? Or I dont agree with every thing you members of the clique say? I am a life long fan of Led Zeppelin. None of you have the right to them or to just get rid of people that disagree with your agendas.

[Electrophile]

Why do you think that people are just going around PMing moderators all the time over the shit you say? We all have jobs and families and lives outside this board that take up more valuable time.

No one here gives a rat's ass who you're voting for or who you're not voting for. You can say we do, but we really don't. You could do a write-in vote for Teddy Roosevelt if it floats your boat. We don't care.

And quit acting like because you've seen Led Zeppelin live or have been listening to them for X number of years, somehow you're a better fan. Along with not giving a shit who you're voting for, we don't give a shit how long you've been listening to them. It doesn't matter to anyone else but you. No one here has ever tried to "claim" Led Zeppelin. You're paranoid. Absolutely paranoid.

[Hermit]

overthehills,..

I've been civil with you throughout our debates in this thread and I've enjoyed our back and forths.. even though you're not very open-minded and seem to be rather.. bitter. Given your totally unnecessary and totally inappropriate personal attacks on people in this thread, it seems to me that you're determined to get yourself banned (again). So I figure I better take this opportunity to say good bye. For now, anyway. And if I might, I'd like to suggest a name for you to use upon you return. You'll leave as overthehills, but perhaps you'll return as 'offthedeepend', eh? You like? Tis an apt name, won't you agree?

Anyway..

Its too bad you let your angry impulses get the better of you.

Arrivederci.

Go Obama!!

[Hermit]

Fact of the matter is Pb, Obamas got the numbers and he's got the support. Bills gonna lose the nomination and as it stands right now, she's gonna lose by a significant chunk.

Pb's not interested in the FACT of the matter, bro. In his mind Hillary

Clinton has "a good mathematical chance" of winning the nomination.

You know,.. according to Pb Hillary's got a "must sweep the remaining 10 primaries by victory margins of 20%-40% (or more) even though she's won only 2 of the previous 40 primaries by margins of 20% or more and Obama's won 20 of the previous 40 primaries by margins of 20% or more" kind of "good mathematical chance" of winning the nomination.

Don't you get it?

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt,.. eh?

[Del Zeppnile]

Why not Del?

..becuz he's Black?

..becuz you think Americans are eager for "More Of The Same"?

..or just becuz you say so?

Please,.. do elaborate.

No, not because he's black. Someday there will be a Black presidient, but not this guy.

Obama is just too liberal in his views. Even more liberal than Hillary in fact. And most of middle America is not as liberal as he is. That's the reason. The country may be unhappy with the conservatives, but that only means they want more moderate canidates. Obama just isn't a fit this time around.

And that whole thing with his Pastor and his Obama's inability to distance himself from all of that is going to be a bigger 'swift boat' than anything that haunted John Kerry.

[Hermit]

No, not because he's black. Someday there will be a Black presidient, but not this guy.

Obama is just too liberal in his views. Even more liberal than Hillary in fact. And most of middle America is not as liberal as he is. That's the reason. The country may be unhappy with the conservatives, but that only means they want more moderate canidates. Obama just isn't a fit this time around.

And that whole thing with his Pastor and his Obama's inability to distance himself from all of that is going to be a bigger 'swift boat' than anything that haunted John Kerry.

I get where you're coming from,.. and I disagree.

Most Americans are more accepting of homosexuality these days.

Most Americans (ok, half anyway) want universal healthcare.

Most Americans want our troops out of Iraq.

Most Americans believe Global Warming/Climate Change Crisis is real.

Most Americans (ok, half anyway) support Roe v. Wade.

Most Americans feel Social Security/Medicaid are worthwhile social programs.

Most Americans realize No Child Left Behind is an abject failure.

Most Americans support stem cell research.

Most Americans want America to be on the cutting edge of the energy revolution.

Most Americans believe in science, particularly as pertains to evolution vs creationism.

Many Americans feel America is ready for a Black and/or a woman POTUS.

Many Americans support some form of gun control.. that respects the right to bear arms.

Most Americans feel that gov't policies should be rooted in a sense of social conscience.

Those are examples of points of view that you (and conservatives like you) feel are "too liberal", and yet the reality is that these points of view are becoming more and more mainstream throughout America. While they may be the points of view held by most "liberals" (democrats), they are not by any means "radically liberal" points of view, they are actually rather "moderate" points of view... just not in the eyes of "conservative republicans" [you know.. republicans who think George W Bush (the self-proclaimed "compassionate conservative" and "uniter, not divider") is a "moderate" republican].

The times they are a changin', Del. Nowadays in America, to most people "liberal" and "progressive" are no longer political bad words, my friend. And it's no longer meaningful when republicans like you claim a democratic candidate is "too liberal". Most people recognize that to republicans, democrats (by very nature of their being democrats) are ALL considered to be "too liberal". A democrat does not exist that a republican would say is "not too liberal"; which means then, by inference, that when you say a candidate is "not moderate enough" or "is too liberal", what you're really saying is that the candidate is "not republican enough". Right?

A majority of Americans feel that after 7 years of republican (mis)leadership America is "heading in the wrong direction". People want change. That means voting republicans out of the White House and voting in a democratic POTUS. Barack Obama represents intelligent, reasonable change and, as most polls are suggesting, he'd have a legitimate chance (ie, a "good mathematical chance") of winning the general election vs More Of The Same McCain.

Republicans like you, and rabid Clinton supporters (strange bed fellows indeed!), are the ones insisting that the Rev Wright issue will hurt Obama in the general election. You know it will subject him to swiftboat attacks/smears and you think that will be enough to give the election to McCain. Keep telling yourself that, muh-man, if that's what it takes for you to sleep somewhat soundly at night. But I know you're having nightmares about John McCain. You know full well that the Obama campaign and the DNC won't have to "swiftboat" McCain; all they'll have to do is point to his political record/policy positions (a record that even most conservative repubs find both nauseating and inconsistent) and highlight his many recent gaffes. Ya gotta admit, bro, that with each passing day McCain looks more and more like a (near-senile) buffoon. As the general election campaign wears on he's only going to look even more unappealing.. to everyone. He's not only going to look like More Of The Same in terms of Bush failed policies, he's going to look like More Of The Same in terms of Bush buffoonery. Americans, including most republicans, have been embarrassed enough by Bush; not many are gonna be eager to vote for More Of The Same. Sure, diehard repubs will hold their noses and vote for McCain; not because they think he'll be a good POTUS, but rather simply because they will not vote for any democrat for POTUS.. ever.. no matter what. I think reasonable-minded truly "moderate"-minded people (which excludes diehard repubs, obviously, and most so-called "moderate repubs") will, given the choice between Obama and More Of The Same.. vote for Obama.

I personally am looking forward with great eagerness to seeing Barack Obama and John McCain debate each other. It'll be youth, vitality, good looks, intelligence, and change vs. More Of The Same. It'll be a new vision for America, passionately and articulately expressed by political fresh blood vs. an old, broken down, incoherent, inconsistent, corporate welfare supporting, torture-supporting, war-mongering, fear-mongering good-ol-boy-wannabe.

I think Obama will do just fine in that head-to-head matchup.

You and your fellow republicans' claims of "Obama's too liberal!".. and "Obama's a radical!" and "Obama will take your guns!" and "Obama is secretly a Muslim!" and "Obama's a racist!" and "Obama's a socialist!" and "Obama supports the terrorists!" and "Obama is whatever it is you fear most!" and "Hide your White women before Obama gets em!".. aren't gonna save your flip-flopping, pandering, war-mongering, fear-mongering, vapid, geriatric, buffoon of a candidate.

Go Obama!!

btw,.. thanks for the response and welcome back to the thread, bud. Your points of view are as stale as an old cracker [pun intended, but nothing personal of course; I'm merely playfully referencing the fact that conservativism is extremely stale. *wink*], but your articulateness will be a refreshing change from the other anti-Obama/anti-democrat club members who (wannabe drummer, excluded) have been remarkably unwilling and/or unable to present anything remotely indicative of rational, logical, substantive, coherent arguments in support of (or defense of) their anti-Obama/anti-democrat diatribe/opinions. Yes indeed,.. welcome back, friend!