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the piper

Meanings in Led Zep songs

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And it's whispered that soon, if we all call the tune, then the piper will lead us to reason.

If I told you that I am the piper that Plant sang about, you would ask me what is "reason." I submit that reason is the Oneness of God. And in my thoughts I have seen, rings of smoke through the trees.......... but some may attribute that to my state of mind.

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And it's whispered that soon, if we all call the tune, then the piper will lead us to reason.

If I told you that I am the piper that Plant sang about, you would ask me what is "reason." I submit that reason is the Oneness of God. And in my thoughts I have seen, rings of smoke through the trees.......... but some may attribute that to my state of mind.

I submit that reason is self-awareness. We're the only species on this planet who possess self-awareness, both of our existence and our mortality. Your definition of

reason requires the acceptance of an external, monotheistic God. For many, such a belief would be seen as a cultural, if not personal imposition.

Edited by SteveAJones

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There are undoubtedly many pipers, in addition to the thread starter. This is another:

Pan - The Piper at the Gates of Dawn

The Greek God Pan is perhaps the most familiar form of the Horned God/Wild Man archetype. The classical imagery of this country-dwelling deity is derived from the Homeric Hymn to Pan. He is an ancient god indeed, harkening back to the old hunter/gatherer societies with their horned or antlered shamanic gods. But with animal domestication Pan became the herdsman's god associated with goats. His original worship was in Arcadian Greece.

The ancient scholars of Alexandria believed that Pan personified the Natural Cosmos, and the word Pantheism is derived from this idea, that all Nature is God and that God is All Nature. He is described as the son of Hermes by the Arcadian Nymph Dryope: "goatfooted, two-horned, noisy, and laughing..." He was also said to possibly be the son of Zeus by Amalthea the Cretan goat-goddess, nursemaid to Dionysus. The attributes of hooves and horns along with a prominent phallus merged together and this association, particularly, gave them their popular identification as the male symbols of sexuality. Many ancient people had no shame around sex and considered it a vital sign of health and divine blessing. Pan had many lovers, both female and male, quite apart from His constant pursuit of the anonymous nymphs of His woodlands.

Pan had a positive side that was portrayed as the laughing, lusty lover and musician; this side of Pan was called "pangenitor" the all-begetter. But like all the Gods of Nature He had a shadow side as well. In this form He is called "panphage" the all-devourer and as such He was perceived as a dangerous protector of the Wilderness. The word "panic" itself derives from Pan; for in this form He could cause sudden irrational wild fear. This dark side of Pan and his rampant sexuality were looked on with such horror and disgust by the Medieval Christian Church that some of their images of the devil were given the horns, hooves and ithyphallic appearance of the Greek God. Nevertheless, images of Pan in His European guise of Robin Goodfellow continued to be the focus of joyous rural celebrations well into the 16th century CE.

For more, read The Wind in the Willows by Kenneth Grahame, Chapter 7, "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn.

Edited by SteveAJones

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I submit that reason is self-awareness. We're the only species on this planet who possess self-awareness, both of our existence and our mortality. Your definition of

reason requires the acceptance of an external, monotheistic God. For many, such a belief would be seen as a cultural, if not personal imposition and as such not reason.

The lyrics of Zeppelin cannot be taken in isolation, but must be studied along with other musicians of the time. Jon Anderson of Yes sang about the insane teacher in "And You and I" and Daltry sang about the man who spurred us on in "Won't Get Fooled Again." Clearly, Yes was referring to an external Diety and Daltry was referring to movement of epic proportions. I submit that the three individuals together are the same, and that the laughter that will echo in the forests are the realization that there is a God, and that his Kingdom is upon us.

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The lyrics of Zeppelin cannot be taken in isolation, but must be studied along with other musicians of the time. Jon Anderson of Yes sang about the insane teacher in "And You and I" and Daltry sang about the man who spurred us on in "Won't Get Fooled Again." Clearly, Yes was referring to an external Diety and Daltry was referring to movement of epic proportions. I submit that the three individuals together are the same, and that the laughter that will echo in the forests are the realization that there is a God, and that his Kingdom is upon us.

In my OPINION, the lyrics aren't meant to be STUDIED at all.

The thing is all spiritual beliefs are self-referential. Why don't I pray to Buddha? I'm

gonna guess because Buddha was not a part of my cultural and personal experience

during my formative years and as an adult I chose not to. Do you really think there's

gonna be laughter in Bangladesh, Riyahd or Beijing because three Western World rock

lyricists said this is the way, if in fact that's what they said? I doubt it, my man. In

fact, I'm willing to bet there's gonna be a lot of pissed off rabbi's too. All those years

of study when the answer was always there on an old eight-track tape.

If anything, and again OPINION, most of the references in their lyrics are Luciferian.

There is so much Luciferian imagery in Tommy (the film), and even TSRTS, it's unreal.

But there's no boogey man under the bed, I'm quite sure of that. I think. No, wait.

Yes, I'm sure. :D

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In my OPINION, the lyrics aren't meant to be STUDIED at all.

The thing is all spiritual beliefs are self-referential. Why don't I pray to Buddha? I'm

gonna guess because Buddha was not a part of my cultural and personal experience

during my formative years and as an adult I chose not to. Do you really think there's

gonna be laughter in Bangladesh, Riyahd or Beijing because three Western World rock

lyricists said this is the way, if in fact that's what they said? I doubt it, my man. In

fact, I'm willing to bet there's gonna be a lot of pissed off rabbi's too. All those years

of study when the answer was always there on an old eight-track tape.

If anything, and again OPINION, most of the references in their lyrics are Luciferian.

There is so much Luciferian imagery in Tommy (the film), and even TSRTS, it's unreal.

But there's no boogey man under the bed, I'm quite sure of that. I think. No, wait.

Yes, I'm sure. :D

Before I sign out for the day, know that the piper is calling you to join him. But even if you choose not to, know that in the end, we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize. "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." It was nice talking with you, Steve.

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Before I sign out for the day, know that the piper is calling you to join him. But even if you choose not to, know that in the end, we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize. "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." It was nice talking with you, Steve.

...well now, there's a Thread "ender"...

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Before I sign out for the day, know that the piper is calling you to join him. But even if you choose not to, know that in the end, we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize. "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." It was nice talking with you, Steve.
Oh dear. Better not say what i really think about that one. edit. I just read in a news forum that a teacher has been arrested in the Sudan for naming a teddy bear mohammed................ Scary. Edited by johnthomasmoby

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Before I sign out for the day, know that the piper is calling you to join him. But even if you choose not to, know that in the end, we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize. "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." It was nice talking with you, Steve.

:unsure:

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http://www.michaelklassen.com/understandin...heaven#stairway

Stairway to Heaven

R. Plant & J. Page

© 1971 Superhype Music Inc.

There's a lady(1) who's sure all that

glitters is gold(2).

And she's buying a stairway

to heaven(3).

And when she gets there she knows

if the stores are closed.

With a word(4) she can get

what she came for.

There's a sign on the wall

but she wants to be sure.

Cause you know sometimes

words have two meanings(5).

In a tree by the brook

there's a songbird

who sings sometimes(6).

All of our thoughts are misgiven.

There's a feeling I get when

I look to the west.

And my spirit is crying for leaving.

In my thoughts I have seen

rings of smoke

through the trees(7).

And the voices of those who

stand looking.

And it's whispered that soon

if we all call the tune.

Then the piper will lead us to reason.

And a new day will dawn

for those who stand long(8).

And the forests will echo

with laughter.

And it makes me wonder(9).

If there's a bustle in your hedgerow

don't be alarmed now(10).

It's just a spring clean for

the May-Queen.

Yes there are two paths

you can go by.

But in the long run.

There's still time to change

the road you're on(11).

Your head is humming and

it won't go- in case you don't know(12).

The piper's calling you to join him(13).

Dear lady can you hear

the wind blow.

And did you know

your stairway lies on the

whispering wind(14).

And as we wind on down the road.

Our shadows taller than our soul.

There walks a lady we all know.

Who shines white light

and wants to show.

How everything still turns gold(15).

And if you listen very hard

the tune will come to you at last.

When all are one and one is all(16).

To be a rock(17) and not to roll.

And she's buying(18) a stairway

to heaven.

The Lyrics Interpreted

By Michael Klassen

1. Erma Rees-Gwynn, a Welsh divorcee intent on starting her own carpenter contracting business. She was recommended (some say as a joke) by the castle's previous owner, actor Richard Harris, who fled to the Bahamas to avoid the taxman.

2. This is a bit of Plant's irony. In other words if it didn't glitter, it probably wasn't worth much. Erma and her assistants reportedly broke and scratched a lot of valuables carrying lumber through the residence.

3. This means "building" a stairway to heaven, or, more likely, buying the materials for the stairway. Erma was contracted to build a deck in back of Page's castle, three stories high. The plans were for a 2nd floor landing, and steps leading up from the back vegetable patch. Plant once described Lelawcge-an-bryn as "heaven." The staircase when completed would be a stairway to view heaven if you climbed up it, or going down, a stairway to carrots and peas.

4."Foreclosure." The small Welsh town in the district had only one hardware store in the area, and the owner was on a picnic with his family. Erma complained to Jimmy about not being able to get screw nails. So Jimmy called a couple of local aldermen he had in his back pocket, so they could get the damn store open. The store owner soon received the politicians' threats, and cut short his picnic.

5. In order the secure the landing at the second floor, Erma's crew had to enter Jimmy's so-called "Guitar Room." The sign on the wall said "Keep the Fuck Out - Everyone!" These words don't have two meanings, do they? Well, Erma let herself in anyway. In fact, only two double-necked Gibsons could be found in the room, out of Page's reputed collection of 75 guitars. No, this was his Occult Room, full of red satin furnishings and things with horns on them.

6. Reportedly Jimmy was out on his property, singing in his favorite tree, when he saw Erma's helper hanging out the Guitar Room's window. His berserk ranting ("misgiven thoughts") could be heard in the next county.

7. West of Page's property, beyond a neighbour's forested grove, there was a coal-burning power plant. Apparently the tons of sulphur-rich deposits pouring from its stacks disheartened Plant. One day Percy got pretty inebriated, and schemed that they should all protest until the plant shut down. Why not get all the girls, the other lads, and large-fisted manager Peter Grant out blocking their gate? "Great idea," one of the girls responded, "but how are we going to keep the stereo going, or even have hot baths without power?" This comment silenced Plant's protest.

8. Jonesy was the true all round musician of the group. Before Led Zeppelin the bassist/keyboardist extraordinaire wrote and arranged some of Lulu's best work, including "To Sir With Love." Whilst up at Page's castle he tried to form a little choir he wished to call the Zeppettes. Singing careers could've meant a "new day" for the girls, but none could carry a tune. The neighbours watched them rehearse in vain, hence the laughter echoing in the forest.

9. It's likely Plant spend as much time wondering about things as it took for him to write this line.

10. It's said a lot of clothes were found in strange places after their infamous Victorian dress-up parties.

11. The "May-Queen" was Maytag's laundromat-sized washer/dryer combo ordered in to handle hotel-sized loads of laundry being done at Page's castle. Jimmy was promised a money-back warranty on the set if he wasn't satisfied. The "two paths" were whether to keep them or return. The warranty gave him time to change the road he was on, you see.

12. This was one of the worst hangovers Plant had ever felt.

13. Jonesy was going back to London and asked Plant to come along.

14. Actually, your stairway, and the whole damned sundeck laid on the ground. A spring torrent ripped through Great Britain that year, and destroyed Erma's shoddy work.

15. Jonesy and Plant hit the road in John Paul's Stutz Bearcat. By coincidence, they came across Erma waving a flashlight, trying to hitch out of Lelawcge-an-bryn County. After the sundeck fiasco she gave up on carpentry, and was leaving for a cousin's residence in King's Cross. "Everything still turns to gold," she promised, boasting ten thousand pounds profit on the Page job alone.

16. A sarcastic bit of advice from Percy to the Zeppettes: just keep practicing, girls.

17. Plant decided to be a rock, if not a lump of clay, and stay home with his wife and family until the next tour.

18. Last heard from, Erma was in the Bahamas. "And she's buying a ticket to Nassau."

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The lyrics of Zeppelin cannot be taken in isolation, but must be studied along with other musicians of the time. Jon Anderson of Yes sang about the insane teacher in "And You and I" and Daltry sang about the man who spurred us on in "Won't Get Fooled Again." Clearly, Yes was referring to an external Diety and Daltry was referring to movement of epic proportions. I submit that the three individuals together are the same, and that the laughter that will echo in the forests are the realization that there is a God, and that his Kingdom is upon us.

You mean Pete Townshend don't you, not Roger Daltry?

Daltry sang the song for THE WHO, but Pete Townshend wrote it.

You need to get this stuff right if you are going to even begin to understand the 'meanings' behind anything.

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Before I sign out for the day, know that the piper is calling you to join him. But even if you choose not to, know that in the end, we'll agree, we'll accept, we'll immortalize. "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah." It was nice talking with you, Steve.

:unsure:

Oh my sides.

:hysterical:

Yeah, like now I'm convinced

Edited by Del Zeppnile

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Dylan had the best answer to this.

When he was ask what his songs are about he said:-

Some are about 3 mintues long, some are about 5 minutes long and some are even about 12 minutes long.

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I love it! Everyone always acts as if three wise men knocked on the door. "Excuse us,

are your writing Stairway to Heaven in here?" That's what I like about the Hard Rock

Cafe. All those immortal rock n' roll lyrics written on the back fleabag hotel stationary

or a grease-stained Kentucky Fried Chicken menu. When I hear these "messages" should

be "studied" or people are enrolling in "university courses"...has everyone gone nuts?

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Dylan had the best answer to this.

He also said something to the effect of "every singer has six good songs, and while the

words may change he'll sing those same six songs over and over". Having looked at an

Elton John Discography, I'll submit him as exhibit A.

Edited by SteveAJones

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I love it! Everyone always acts as if three wise men knocked on the door. "Excuse us,

are your writing Stairway to Heaven in here?" That's what I like about the Hard Rock

Cafe. All those immortal rock n' roll lyrics written on the back fleabag hotel stationary

or a grease-stained Kentucky Fried Chicken menu. When I hear these "messages" should

be "studied" or people are enrolling in "university courses"...has everyone gone nuts?

You obviousl ythen heard of the University course then out in sunny Cali. I think it was in USF ...

The prof tried out part of his curriculum on this forum I happen to be fond of and well, it was a very interesting time for all!!!

Oh yeah.... here was the course

http://silverinsf.blogspot.com/2007/04/spe...d-zeppelin.html

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And it's whispered that soon, if we all call the tune, then the piper will lead us to reason.

If I told you that I am the piper that Plant sang about, you would ask me what is "reason." I submit that reason is the Oneness of God. And in my thoughts I have seen, rings of smoke through the trees.......... but some may attribute that to my state of mind.

I think of the Pied Piper fable, and this song is the one to lead us away from society (i.e. the village) into someplace else thats staggering(i.e. a deep cave never to be seen again?). I don't know.... I was never very good at literature.

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You obviousl ythen heard of the University course then out in sunny Cali. I think it was in USF ...

Nech, just to remind you how sad I am: when I opened the link I immediately discounted everything except "Hey, there's a Zep-related flyer I don't have yet"

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I know there's been a lot of really profound deep songs written but some are just some pished guys looking for words that rhymn and scan acceptable enough. An aweful lot are just pleas to get laid. P & P have written their fair share of those.

Soemtimes we're looking for deep meanings that just aren't there.

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I think of the Pied Piper fable, and this song is the one to lead us away from society (i.e. the village) into someplace else thats staggering(i.e. a deep cave never to be seen again?). I don't know.... I was never very good at literature.

The Pied Piper led the rats out of the village. Pan was the God of Music. Anyway, we found out earlier today that Roger Daltrey, Robert Plant and some other guy wrote a bunch of songs in the early '70s to lay the groundwork for a pan-Islamic revolution. It can't be all bad as it might keep The Who from touring again.

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I know there's been a lot of really profound deep songs written but some are just some pished guys looking for words that rhymn and scan acceptable enough. An aweful lot are just pleas to get laid. P & P have written their fair share of those.

Soemtimes we're looking for deep meanings that just aren't there.

Reminds me of the scene in Imagine, where they find the guy camping out in Lennon's garden. Can't recall the exact quote, but something along the lines of (paraphrasing) "don't take them too seriously". However, I like to think that when someone writes "silly" stuff, his subliminal mind is working. So in that respect, the lyrics are fascinating.

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I know there's been a lot of really profound deep songs written but some are just some pished guys looking for words that rhymn and scan acceptable enough. An aweful lot are just pleas to get laid. P & P have written their fair share of those.

Soemtimes we're looking for deep meanings that just aren't there.

Amen! And I think Stairway is one of those songs.

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Amen! And I think Stairway is one of those songs.

The piper has returned: Let us look at The Battle of Evermore. You cannot tell me that there is no deep meaning in this song. "The Queen of Light took her bow, and then she turned to go. The Prince of Peace embrace the gloom, and walk the night alone.... The drums will shake the castle walls.... etc.

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The piper has returned: Let us look at The Battle of Evermore. You cannot tell me that there is no deep meaning in this song. "The Queen of Light took her bow, and then she turned to go. The Prince of Peace embrace the gloom, and walk the night alone.... The drums will shake the castle walls.... etc.

THE PIPER or the piper? Anyway, welcome back. I guess before we get started on this one I should ask how's that Daltrey-Plant inspired Pan-Islamic Revolution mentioned earlier in this thread getting on? Will there really be fighting in the streets? With our children at our feet? Will you be the one to sit in judgement of all wrong, or will you have laundry to catch up on?

Edited by SteveAJones

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While you can certainly look for meaning in every song, some songs provide more room for interpretation.

Ask any anthropologist and they'll tell you that meaning varies between cultures.

Some will even tell you that cultures vary within two people raised together.

This basically means that the smallest grain of culture is the individual and that meaning ultimately boils down to that individual.

If this individual shares his interpretations with the people around him then they are more likely to believe his interpretation than if he shared them with total strangers who don't know his culture.

All this is basically a fancy way of saying that you can and will interpret meaning for yourself. And that if your meaning strays too far from your culture's main interpretation, then you will be in disagreement with your peers.

The only truth you find is an affirmation or denial of what you already know.

There is no true meaning of this song.

But it's always fun to entertain possibilities.

...

Robert Plant always talks about how stairway is tale about hope, one that you fill in for yourself, because the meaning is ambiguous.

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