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Whas up with all the bootlegs!


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You were the one who earlier said that's the way of the world...greed.

I was just saying if I had something someone was going to make money off of, I'd want a piece of the pie. Nobody should make money, but they do. WRONG doesn't stop it.

Exactly my point - from a moral/idealistic point of view, I believe that taping a band is not so bad, so long as it is not used for profit. Sure, the band might not like it, but I believe that the enjoyment people will get from a new recording outweighs the band's unhappiness about it.

However from a pragmatic point of view, there will always be unscrupulous types out there who will try to make a buck in any way they can. It's a shame but you can't change it.

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I think its kinda a tricky issue to address because its hard to lay the blame on one person. I mean really your not supose to video tape these proformances they dont let you in the movies, Why do it at a concert. If they let you do it at movies then everyone you know can see the movie for free. I feel that if there was supose to be video content of the show Zeppelin should be the one to release it and all parties that were invaulved in making the video including the taper should be either fine or taken up with legal action. I say this having the bootlegs but i mean i have a band to and if someone taped me on stage and made money off of it id be pissed. Not so much that their making money off of it which is a big issue but for the fact that video might be released with out the artists consent and not in its full form either in quality or presence.

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  • 1 month later...
I think its kinda a tricky issue to address because its hard to lay the blame on one person. I mean really your not supose to video tape these proformances they dont let you in the movies, Why do it at a concert. If they let you do it at movies then everyone you know can see the movie for free. I feel that if there was supose to be video content of the show Zeppelin should be the one to release it and all parties that were invaulved in making the video including the taper should be either fine or taken up with legal action. I say this having the bootlegs but i mean i have a band to and if someone taped me on stage and made money off of it id be pissed. Not so much that their making money off of it which is a big issue but for the fact that video might be released with out the artists consent and not in its full form either in quality or presence.

I get your point but hear me out.

Concerts are a little more rare than movies at a theatre. Even the people who had enough money to buy tickets to the shows couldn't get them because there was such a limited amout available. (In effect, the limited seating takes potential money away from the band).

This is highly unlike the movies which have unlimited amounts of tickets for shows playing at thousands of theaters worldwide simeultaneously for months on end.

Sure bootlegging may initially rob some money from the band - but I guarentee you that the money that is robbed is payed back to them a few times over .

Think about it. Say for instance, the 3-CD How the West Was Won album hits the shelves - live performance right? Some people may not be into live music (I know I've heard my fair share of sh1tty ones), but think about all the people with the "all live performances suck, I'm not going to risk buying this" mentality. They may have never went out and purchased this release had it not been for the fact that they were able to hear a few awesome performances from bootlegs beforehand at no cost to them. All the sudden, a couple hundred thousand more people are running to the stores to pick it up. (It goes without saying that this theory will not hold true for bands that suck)

I had the perfectly good bootlegs of those performances before How the West Was Won was officially released, but I still went out and bought a copy anyways just to see how it was edited and mastered and such and to support my favorite band. The same holds true for the Royal Albert Hall performance that was released on the official DVD - I had the audio bootleg from that performance some 5 years ago, but I still went out and bought it anyways because the bootlegs brought me that much closer to the band.

I don't think its too big of a stretch to say that bootlegs really are worth their weight in gold in terms of expanding a band's fanbase Its like an insurance policy - a form of free advertisment for the band

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I don't think its too big of a stretch to say that bootlegs really are worth their weight in gold in terms of expanding a band's fanbase Its like an insurance policy - a form of free advertisment for the band

You need to provide data to back up the outrageous claim that bootlegs actually increase revenue. To say that the number of people who collect illegal recordings multiplied by the number of recordings they have is equal to the number of people who purchase official albums is ridiculous.

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You need to provide data to back up the outrageous claim that bootlegs actually increase revenue. To say that the number of people who collect illegal recordings multiplied by the number of recordings they have is equal to the number of people who purchase official albums is ridiculous.

Such a thing is impossible to prove. (And by the way, I never said this times this equals that). But don't lie to yourself, what I said is within the realm of possibility if nothing else.

What I should have said is that bootlegs are FREE, so as long as there is just ONE PERSON who is provoked to buy an official live album upon hearing a bootleg, the band's revenue would increase. (Of course I realize that this only holds true as long as bootlegs themselves are free, which I realize isn't always the case) but the theory works for what I was trying to do - I was merely trying to vouch for the side that believes that bootlegging isn't bad as long as theres no money involved.

Either way, the major point that I was trying to make is that it is pretty much free advertisment for the band, and that bootlegging does numbers in expanding and diversifying the fanbase.

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I see no problem with people making money from doing a job...bootlegging. They are taking time, effort and money to produe, market and sell this stuff. It's considered illegal but what are they really doing? Promoting the bands they're bootlegging as said earlier. (they will benefit from people receiving a free boot and then buying an official studio album. My thoughts are even if they paid for the boot they could still buy the official album and the band will still benefit from the "unauthorized sale" of a bootleg.

If bands don't want it to happen then they should consider releasing every show they play. In this day and age someone will be there to do it. They should do it themselves(especially if they're worried about quality).

Another thought is that bands could do "special shows" with rarer songs, incredible stage shows, special guests, etc. for the shows that they "officially" release while the bootlegger only get the regular show. That would be a way to guarantee that people will still buy the official version. Personally i believe that many people would still buy the official version regardless of if they get a bootleg for free or pay for it.

Another thought if bootlegging was legal and you could charge for it wouldn't most people want the best version which would be the officially released version and not the bootleg version. Would they not be able to increase the price of the discs since they would be "better"?

And I just have to add to the record: I have never sold any bootlegs...never.

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What I should have said is that bootlegs are FREE, so as long as there is just ONE PERSON who is provoked to buy an official live album upon hearing a bootleg, the band's revenue would increase. (Of course I realize that this only holds true as long as bootlegs themselves are free, which I realize isn't always the case) but the theory works for what I was trying to do - I was merely trying to vouch for the side that believes that bootlegging isn't bad as long as theres no money involved.

What about the case of HTWWW. Bootlegs of the shows that album came from have existed for years, then an official release comes out. How many people declined to pay for the official release because they already had a free bootleg? If even one person didn't buy the official version, the band has lost revenue.

There are also other non-monetary issues. How many official releases have been put off by the fact that a decent bootleg exists, therefore there is a reduced market for an official recording?

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You raised a good point about the non-monetary issues.

BBC Sessions, How the West Was Won, the official DVD, all out there before release, and really, the end-all be-all of Zeppelin performances in terms of quality. There aren't really many shows left in quality such as those above that haven't been released, other than Earls Court perhaps, which I'm sure will come some time down the line (and I'll be the first in line, even though I've played those concerts so many times that even my neighbors know the lyrics by heart).

But really, be their releases delayed or not, they still came out eventually. You could argue that they had to be delayed in order to build up a demand for the product that was taken away by the bootlegs being available, but then again you could argue that the delay was good in terms of crossing generation gaps and keeping the memory of such a great band fresh for years and years, so that the next generation might run out and get the studio albums and such. Its really an endless cycle, and you could argue either side and sound perfectly resonable

As far as Zeppelin is concerned, they are probably happy as hell that theres even still a market for material they did 30 some years ago.

But really, I understand your views. I guess this is like political parties.. you're either for one side or the other, and its relatively impossible to change peoples views on things.

I do respect you opinion, and thank you for pointing out the faults in my claims and giving a valid argument for the other side, the key to any good debate.

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You raised a good point about the non-monetary issues.

BBC Sessions, How the West Was Won, the official DVD, all out there before release, and really, the end-all be-all of Zeppelin performances in terms of quality. There aren't really many shows left in quality such as those above that haven't been released, other than Earls Court perhaps, which I'm sure will come some time down the line (and I'll be the first in line, even though I've played those concerts so many times that even my neighbors know the lyrics by heart).

But really, be their releases delayed or not, they still came out eventually. You could argue that they had to be delayed in order to build up a demand for the product that was taken away by the bootlegs being available, but then again you could argue that the delay was good in terms of crossing generation gaps and keeping the memory of such a great band fresh for years and years, so that the next generation might run out and get the studio albums and such. Its really an endless cycle, and you could argue either side and sound perfectly resonable

As far as Zeppelin is concerned, they are probably happy as hell that theres even still a market for material they did 30 some years ago.

But really, I understand your views. I guess this is like political parties.. you're either for one side or the other, and its relatively impossible to change peoples views on things.

I do respect you opinion, and thank you for pointing out the faults in my claims and giving a valid argument for the other side, the key to any good debate.

:thanku::cheer::thanku:

AT LAST!!! Someone who understands, justifies, and makes bootlegging respectable! I'm not alone! YAY! Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to back up docron. There is no real right or wrong side to this issue, but I'm casting my name in for the pro-bootlegging side. It's not like I've never done it myself. I personally audio bootlegged the O2 (purely for my own, personal use, naturally!). Am I ashamed? NO! And, depending on how you feel about the music, the band either loses or gains revenue. Even if you own no bootlegs, the band still aren't going to make any profit if you hate their music so you don't buy the official releases. I think, in the end, it all balances itself out.

:mellow::hippy:

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Bootleg recordings kept me into Zep for all the years after ITTOD (1979), that's good for the band. It's bad when people make money off bootlegs, but who's to blame? That's simple: the knuckleheads who buy them. The darn things are available for FREE on the internet, both by download and trade with your friends. Don't give crooks your money!

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IMHO it's very ez 2 create a new eBay ID and that is what one should do when it comes to shitz that are trying to make money on LZ.

If you see a shitz that is trying to sell LZ Bootz on eBay then create a new (bogus) id and buy the damned thing for as much as it can go for...never pay of course because it is an illegal copy anyway.

There are plenty of good LZ tunes available for a better price (aka 0) that are more or less condoned by most...

NEVER PAY FOR BOOTLEGS BECAUSE LZ DOESN'T GET A PENNY FROM THEM ANYWAY.

The boots that look non-professional are almost condoned, I think.

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If you have a good LZ bootleg, pass it on.

Post it on Usenet for all to have.

Please don't think that you deserve to make a profit on something just because you happen to have a copy of it.

Share the recording and feel good about it.

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IMHO it's very ez 2 create a new eBay ID and that is what one should do when it comes to shitz that are trying to make money on LZ.

If you see a shitz that is trying to sell LZ Bootz on eBay then create a new (bogus) id and buy the damned thing for as much as it can go for...never pay of course because it is an illegal copy anyway.

There are plenty of good LZ tunes available for a better price (aka 0) that are more or less condoned by most...

NEVER PAY FOR BOOTLEGS BECAUSE LZ DOESN'T GET A PENNY FROM THEM ANYWAY.

The boots that look non-professional are almost condoned, I think.

Pay attention young person...for every one who trades, there are hundreds who sell. Kinda like how drugs promotes terrorism. It's a thread in a continuum

:rant: :rant: :rant: Promoting bootlegs is illegal and violatess personal property laws. This thread should be deleted and so should posts and or sig directly linking to illegal trading, selling, sharing. If persons didn't think they would make some type of profit, in whatever form you choose, you pick. They probably wouldnt go stealing Led Zeppelins music. This is not an attack on the poster. Apparantly you have no idea of the level of complexity this involves.

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