Why bootlegs are bad

[Mountain Hopper]

My problem with the bootlegs besides the obvious shitty audio quality, is that Jimmy spoke of a lot of his recordings being stolen from him while going through his divorce. If he had been able to keep the original tapes, we could all be listening and possibly watching in glorious 5.1 surround sound. They would also be much easier to access and wouldn't cost so much. So thanks a lot to all the assholes trying to make a quick buck.

[Rock Action]

You've got some valid points there, but the other side of the coin is that Jimmy may never had intended on releasing any of it.

Not that I condone Jimmy getting ripped off- I don't. I think it sucks. But it is nice to hear the material.

On the other hand, most boots I have are audience recordings anyway. The Millard recorded shows are very listenable at worst, fantastic at best. And nobody really got ripped off. Zep wasn't going to release the shows anyway.

The bottom line is: As long as there's the demand, bootleggers WILL find the product out there to distribute. And I also think that the live shows has helped Zep's career immeasurably. Do you think they'd still be this huge if nobody ever heard a lot of their legendary shows? I think not.

Anyway, not gonna get into another moral argument over boots. Just saying my piece.

[NickZepp]

Depends on the bootleg. There are some with shitty quality. But there are a lot of good quality boots that were never in Jimmy's possession. Zeppelin was the best live band ever and those boots show it. And it's usually the audience recordings that are the bands best sounding. Yes there are a lot of shitty ones. But the sound of the best soundboards are never as good as teh audience recordings which weren't done by Zeppelin. The Knebworth shows are a perfect example of this.

[birdoffire]

All the soundboards we have (and which maybe got stolen) are mono or stereo. That means that nobody, not even Jimmy Page, could make a proper live album let alone a 5.1 mix out of them.

[Wolfman]

God bless the bootleggers....without them, I don't think Zep would be as legendary as they are...they are statements in time on why they are the greatest band ever!

[Mattmc1973]

There's a big difference between bootlegged live shows, and stolen material from an artist's possession. Many of the soundboards were likely not even in Jimmy's possession, they were simply a situation where someone plugged into the board and made a tape. But yes, shows and studio material that belonged to Jimmy and were stolen, those situations are obviously bad and wrong.

And like Wolfman said, without bootlegs their legend of being an incredible live band wouldn't be near what it is. For years, TSRTS was the only live recording we had to go on, and while good, didn't come close to showing the true scope of their live prowess. It's only through bootlegs that we know how awesome they were in the early days, how their shows evolved, how Plant's voice changed, how Jimmy's playing grew, etc.

[huw]

My problem with the bootlegs besides the obvious shitty audio quality, is that Jimmy spoke of a lot of his recordings being stolen from him while going through his divorce. If he had been able to keep the original tapes, we could all be listening and possibly watching in glorious 5.1 surround sound. They would also be much easier to access and wouldn't cost so much. So thanks a lot to all the assholes trying to make a quick buck.

Shitty audio - you haven't heard many boots - there are many great sounding ones

Stolen tapes - yes, that sucks, but IIRC many of those were rehersal/demo tapes rather than gigs.

5.1 sound - I doubt it - relatively few multitracks were recorded. Most non-audience tapes are soundboards - ie monitor mixes, FOH mix, in stereo, not multi.

Cost? - Are you ****ing serious?! They are free, thanks to this new thing called the internet...

[KidLed]

If it werent for boots I would never have seen the 02, and I cant live like that!!!! worth the $16!!!!

[Cactus]

There's a big difference between bootlegged live shows, and stolen material from an artist's possession. Many of the soundboards were likely not even in Jimmy's possession, they were simply a situation where someone plugged into the board and made a tape. But yes, shows and studio material that belonged to Jimmy and were stolen, those situations are obviously bad and wrong.

This isn't really true - I know for a fact that on the '77 tour, soundboards were recorded for every show, I believe by Benji le Fevre, and these tapes were all given to Jimmy.

As others have pointed out, many of the SBDs are not releasable as they are not multi-tracks.

But there are several multi-tracked shows, Southampton 73, for example.

I think it's a damn shame that the "Bootleg Queen" stole all that stuff from Jimmy - including the demos for Outrider, which was supposed to be a double album. Who knows what official releases we have been deprived of because of that act. If only someone - somewhere who has those masters could return them to Jimmy now. It's not like they need them any more.

And while you're at it, bring back the Black Beauty?

[tyedye]

Keith Richards once said; "If you're not being bootleged, then you should be worried about your career."

I think we would probably still be waiting for most of those Led Zeppelin concerts to be released anyway.

I'm sure if they officially released those concerts, they would sell, even if fans already have boots of them.

The Stones could never make the argument that boots keep them from releasing that stuff officially. Most of their live albums, (as good as some of them are), are so prosessed.

Maybe the bootlegers charge those high prices because, if they get busted, they will need the money for their defence. Ha, Ha!

Nice quote.

[3hrsoflunacy]

My problem with the bootlegs besides the obvious shitty audio quality, is that Jimmy spoke of a lot of his recordings being stolen from him while going through his divorce. If he had been able to keep the original tapes, we could all be listening and possibly watching in glorious 5.1 surround sound. They would also be much easier to access and wouldn't cost so much. So thanks a lot to all the assholes trying to make a quick buck.

As others pointed out, there are some fantastic sounding audience recordings of the group. Perhaps you should get some more to judge the quality. Actually, in a few cases (e.g. 1970.03.07 Montreux) the AUD recording sounds better than the SBD. I don't condone the theft of Jimmy's property, and I have never paid for a bootleg (and I have a lot). I had heard in an interview it was a worker at a storage facility near Heathrow that actually stole them, but I don't know if that is the actual truth. Lastly, I do not believe for a second that if any of the tapes had remained in his possession that he would have released more live material than what has already been released. Jimmy is a perfectionist, and is have rumored to have erased some of the '71 or '72 Japanese shows (don't recall which year), which many feel are some of the best, because he didn't like them. Based on that, I don't think much of latter tours would meet his expectation either. That is my opinion, others may disagree.

[Audacity]

[tyedye]

As others pointed out, there are some fantastic sounding audience recordings of the group. Perhaps you should get some more to judge the quality. Actually, in a few cases (e.g. 1970.03.07 Montreux) the AUD recording sounds better than the SBD. I don't condone the theft of Jimmy's property, and I have never paid for a bootleg (and I have a lot). I had heard in an interview it was a worker at a storage facility near Heathrow that actually stole them, but I don't know if that is the actual truth. Lastly, I do not believe for a second that if any of the tapes had remained in his possession that he would have released more live material than what has already been released. Jimmy is a perfectionist, and is have rumored to have erased some of the '71 or '72 Japanese shows (don't recall which year), which many feel are some of the best, because he didn't like them. Based on that, I don't think much of latter tours would meet his expectation either. That is my opinion, others may disagree.

That's kind of sad if it's true, but you can't hardly blame him. He has had so many stuff stolen from him.

[alwizard03]

I like my boots hope to get more.I support Led Zeppelin I own every offical cd,lp,dvd etc and a lot of boots if I have it and they do a offical release I will buy it again.I have bought tickets between Zep ,and solo indeavors to over 60 shows .Hell I am 50 years old and wear Led Zeppelin pj's and underwear.

Also just like the Waterboy I have some high quality bootleg material .

[crizman]

I used to have a ton of bootleg L.P.'s some were great -some were so-so.But in a moment of no cash I sold them as well as a 1968 tour book.In 1992,Ibought a 5 c.d. box set called UNCENSORED. It's ok ,but not as good as some of the old stuff i had. I am not sure how to find bootlegs.Could someone please give me a clue! THANK YOU

[Cactus]

I had heard in an interview it was a worker at a storage facility near Heathrow that actually stole them, but I don't know if that is the actual truth.

I read on here recently that it was a babysitter for Scarlet?

Obviously Jimmy's security wasn't very good - they should have been in a safe or something. But everyone has a right to think that their house is secure.

[LedMan]

Another excellent boot that comes to mind is September 14th, 1971. One of the reasons that Zep is still my all time favorite band is because of all the excellent AUD and SB recordings that have surfaced. As much as I enjoy the official releases I know I would have burned out on them many years ago.

[Suz]

I like my boots hope to get more.I support Led Zeppelin I own every offical cd,lp,dvd etc and a lot of boots if I have it and they do a offical release I will buy it again.I have bought tickets between Zep ,and solo indeavors to over 60 shows .Hell I am 50 years old and wear Led Zeppelin pj's and underwear.

Also just like the Waterboy I have some high quality bootleg material .

Zepp UNDIES???

[Suz]

Another excellent boot that comes to mind is September 14th, 1971. One of the reasons that Zep is still my all time favorite band is because of all the excellent AUD and SB recordings that have surfaced. As much as I enjoy the official releases I know I would have burned out on them many years ago.

Wow. I don't have any bootlegs (yet), but I'm still not burnt out

[ally]

Nothing wrong with sharing the music. Christ, the boots have been around as long as the band. Believe me, they're legacy will stay intact. However, I would rather that nobody else profited from the material.

[Ramci]

I like how civilized this discussion is. Good work. Now, perhaps i am just repeating everyone else's opinion but here's mine:

--

I love bootlegs and i listen to them much. Hell, LZ bootlegs were what hooked me to the band itself! I love both their live and studio material.

Especially what i like is their studio-material. Some brilliant songs and moments there - Swan Song comes in my mind! A great song, butchered for The Firm. I couldn't understand why Page thought that it wasn't "ready" yet!

---

Now after two - three years of studying of Page's and Rodger's comments and listening to most of LZ material, my opinions have matured.

Or rather, i started to understand Page after i started recording my own material.

I thought, "Hell, i don't want anybody to listen to this unfinished shit!", and reliazed that Jimmy must have been thinking the same.

For example - Swan Song is really just some nice two-piece accoustic jamming. All the jamming and melodies he had been jamming and figuring out for it... should he just throw them to a trashcan? There should be more to the song...

So instead, he kept it for himself and recorded it later, when he felt it was ready.

--

So yeah, nowdays i kind of condemn the burglary of the Page's house. Not only did the burglar steal much of the tapes (a whole lot being stuff he would never wanted to anybody hear about, ie. studio rec & jammings) but that bastard also stole one of his guitars.

Now, that's a criminal in my eyes. No wonder Page is pretty critical to bootleggers these days!

Don't get me wrong: Like you people, i love their bootleg stuff. Even so, i would be ready to undo the events of the burglary should i be given such a chance.

Reluctantly, of course.

[alwizard03]

Zepp UNDIES???

yep I keep threatning to post pictures

[SIBLY]

In the pre digital age I longed for LZ bootlegs but could only ever afford a realy shity Knebworth one. But now, I've got hundreds. P2P file sharing is wrong for copyrighted material but if your ripping off the ripping off bootleggers who'll complain!!!

I'd still like to see a LZ live show release program in the style of The Dead's Dick's picks releases because I'd buy those and the money would go to the right people.

Buying the shows from to 2009 tour would be particularly enjoyable!

[tyedye]

In the pre digital age I longed for LZ bootlegs but could only ever afford a realy shity Knebworth one. But now, I've got hundreds. P2P file sharing is wrong for copyrighted material but if your ripping off the ripping off bootleggers who'll complain!!!

I'd still like to see a LZ live show release program in the style of The Dead's Dick's picks releases because I'd buy those and the money would go to the right people.

Buying the shows from to 2009 tour would be particularly enjoyable!

[SilverVishnu]

Christ, the OP's view is so black and white it's ridiculous. My personal view is that sharing recordings of shows is fine so long as there's no money involved. Fans of bands have wanted to share their recordings for a long time, and it so happened that buying bootlegs was the most convenient distribution method. Now we have the internet and BitTorrent, you can acquire all the shows quickly and with no dirty money. But before this century, that didn't exist, and fans had to utilise a more commercial distribution model.