One Symbol Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I remember a heated debate about the bootlegging issue last year, with Evster & others (Hi Ev! ) Personally I love collecting pressed silver boots, although recently my eyes have been opened more to file sharing & downloading for free. Led Zeppelin's reputation is largely built on their reputation as a live act. The bootlegs circulating today (and other recording continuing to trickle out) continue to add to this. Very astutely Jimy selected the recordings issued on How The West was Won for official release, because he knew that those run of shows would be highly regarded by fans. There ARE some really sh*tty sounding Zep bootlegs, and we've all been caught out by those sonic turkeys. However, I would say that an overwhelming amount of the Zep boots I have collected are perfectly listenable to my ears. The issue of someone making a profit on boots is obviously one which will run and run. I understand Page's point of view (particularly when he had tapes nicked from his house), but the Japanese bootleggers still serve a purpose IMO. Quite often it's the likes of Empress Valley who turn up new recordings, and it takes money to be able to do that. Equally, the infamous Robert Langley was responsible for putting together some of the best Zep boots of all time - like Silver Rarities' Listen To This Eddie & many releases on the great Antrabata label...and now everyone downloads them (and their upgrades) for free. Just my twopenneth on the subject! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Hopper Posted April 21, 2008 Author Share Posted April 21, 2008 I see I pissed a lot of people off by starting this topic! I guess I should have been more clear. The main reason I started this thread was because the band makes no money from bootleg sales, and I understand that they are allready filthy rich but to me it's just stealing art from the artist. Having said that, you can all go back to hating me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Symbol Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 I see I pissed a lot of people off by starting this topic! I guess I should have been more clear. The main reason I started this thread was because the band makes no money from bootleg sales, and I understand that they are allready filthy rich but to me it's just stealing art from the artist. Having said that, you can all go back to hating me now. Nope, no hating here. We're all adults, and this is a discussion forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purrcafe Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Could someone please give me a clue! THANK YOU Two words: Bit Torrent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 ...the band makes no money from bootleg sales, and I understand that they are allready filthy rich but to me it's just stealing art from the artist. Having said that, you can all go back to hating me now. We don't hate you - we just disagree. As a number of people have tried to get across, for the most part no-one makes money off boots - they're circulating the net for free to download. Stealing from the artist? Perhaps if it was something the artist had released themselves. If someone mass produces copies of LZIV & sells them, then that is stealing from the artist, plain & simple. I doubt anyone on the site would disagree with that. Money that should go to the band is going to the counterfitters. But a Mike Millard tape from 1977? That's a different type of thing altogether. It was never an official release, so there is no "official" revenue that is being diverted away from the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audacity Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 It would be nice to know what bootlegs of the hundreds the band has out there were "liberated" because of a cash incentive. And how many more, especially the holy grails, that would be put out if the money was right. I'm not an advocate, just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvis56 Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 The reality of it is that bootleg recordings are illegal. They are unauthorized by the band, their management and their record company. Having said that, I'm glad they're out there free these days, so the pirates can't profit off of the artists work. Led Zeppelin fans have been trading tapes and cdr's for ages, in effect, taking money out of the bootleggers hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ro_a Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I cannot imagine my 28 years of Led Zeppelin appreciation having been sustained by the studio LPs alone. The studio band is a different band. My estimation of Zep is half based on bootlegs. I'm not losing an minute of sleep over the guilt of denied treasure. Bootlegs are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIBLY Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I think I'm right in saying that it's not illegal to own a bootleg but it is illegal to produce and sell them. I'd love to see the band putting out 'official' bootlegs in the style of The Dead's Dick's Picks series. Putting out concerts with little or no overdubbing/production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant McBane Posted April 23, 2008 Share Posted April 23, 2008 I think the fact that they are unauthorised or unlicensed by the band and its management make them legal to posess, though i could be wrong (and probably am). The internet is a new means of bootleg distribution that is what the world has been waiting for, with the internet instead of buying crappy copies off people who are ripping us off we are getting even better generation (even masters in alot of cases), and higher quality due to fan re-mixing, its really a win-win, and because nobody makes a cent out of it, i dont see why anybody has a problem with it (not referring to the theft from Jimmy's home, that is a different story) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audacity Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I knew a record store owner who was aware that selling bootlegs was illegal so anyone who wanted to "buy" one had to sweep the floor, clean the windows, toilets and take out the trash. The barter system worked well. He had the cleanest store in town. No problem seeing inside when you walked by either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*I*LOVE*JIMMY!! Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 If you can get a bootleg that the sound is all distorted and clear then you have yourself a great find. I have more good ones than bad and I don;t have very many. I love the live music. That's the way the guys wanted us to hear their music. Not from a studio where everything is controlled. Sure the sound quallity is better but you miss so much of the song. I would rather have that little annoying hum in my bootleg rather having a studio copy. Just my opinon. I love my bootlegs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gollum6668 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Ok everyone has good points. In Zeppelin's heyday Peter Grant went out of his way to destroy anything/anyone who he thought was trying to record/rip-off the band. Very smart move. At the time I guess him and the band thought that the albums would speak for themselves..which they do..but then in '80 with no more 'zep..fans wanted more..so what do they do? listen to boots..some boots should be washed down the toilet for very bad sound quality..i for one love half of the 4-27-69 show (the other half is not listenable by "official" standards) and the first knebworth show and the 1980 shows.. i am currently trying to hear some good quality friends/four sticks from the bombay sessions. curious as to why those were not released..even as a 2 track single.. anyway..this is my theory..if jimmy page stopped wasting time putting out all these compilation albums of greatest hits and actually put out some "live unreleased" tracks such as sitting and thinking, money, train kept a rolling..then fans would be more respectful and receptive. even how the west was won was edited..perhaps because of copyright issues with the encores? whoever broke into his home and took these master tapes were prob. a/zep fan(s) who got tired of waiting on page to deliver and took it into their own hands..just a theory..and perhaps knowing the $ gain from doing so..which is why these master tapes are still missing..hmmm BBC, HTWWW and TSRTS remasters are all very welcome..but perhaps a complete 4 disc BBC set (inc. everything; zep. has enough $ to buy out copyrights/pay royalities?), earl's court '75, knebworth '79, 80's show with train and money..)...bombay sessions of the 2 tracks.. page did a wonderful job with baby come on home! Would he have done it by himself or did the record company/remastering engineer give him that inspiration to do it? I'm sure the final product was all his say. just wish he'd suck up whatever he's going through and give us some true, fine "new" zep. I think he needs to team up with a young, motivated engineer who wants to keep the recordings real but put out some new material not only for the fans but for the band and their legacy. Otherwise, bootleggers will keep producing n putting out some very fine records without his control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant McBane Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 BBC, HTWWW and TSRTS remasters are all very welcome..but perhaps a complete 4 disc BBC set (inc. everything; zep. has enough $ to buy out copyrights/pay royalities?), earl's court '75, knebworth '79, 80's show with train and money..)...bombay sessions of the 2 tracks.. Train Kept A Rollin, Money and other songs won't be included for the same reason that songs such as Louie Louie and Long Tall Sally were not included on official releases, that is why at times bootlegs are the only place to turn to see Zep in fullness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Jimmy said it himself (and I'm paraphrasing cause I don't have the exact quote handy) "Free trading of bootlegged shows among fans is fine. It's just when you package them up and present it as product for profit, that's wrong." So don't fucking pay for them. Don't line people's pockets trading on Led Zeppelin's name. Download a torrent or do a postage and blanks, or just share it freely. No harm. No foul. Sounds like he's okay with that. Bravo Jimmy! But the shit about stuff being stolen by the people watching his house? Well, he'll turn you into a toad! Bitches! Share and enjoy! But never pay! It's out there for all to relish in (or discern), but why let some asshole make a dollar on it? We're all enthusiasts, and we share. And we should! Freely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Jimmy said it himself (and I'm paraphrasing cause I don't have the exact quote handy) "Free trading of bootlegged shows among fans is fine. It's just when you package them up and present it as product for profit, that's wrong." So don't fucking pay for them. Don't line people's pockets trading on Led Zeppelin's name. Download a torrent or do a postage and blanks, or just share it freely. No harm. No foul. Sounds like he's okay with that. Bravo Jimmy! But the shit about stuff being stolen by the people watching his house? Well, he'll turn you into a toad! Bitches! Share and enjoy! But never pay! It's out there for all to relish in (or discern), but why let some asshole make a dollar on it? We're all enthusiasts, and we share. And we should! Freely! A challenge to all those collectors out there. If you want to make someones day and if you are able to make copies. How about sending one to a member of this forum, gratis? I did and damn I feel good! I've shipped about three so far, two locally and one as far away as Seattle Washington USA, they know who they are. It cost me about $20.00 for the discs, packaging and postage, best money I ever spent. Hey somebody originally sent them to me so share the wealth brothers and sisters! Do it, it's good for the soul! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No1ZeppelinFan Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I've been burning on average 10 Cd's a night for my own collection. Purely for me. Great collecting them all, all fo Free and All Zeppelin. Bought a nice case as well. Have about 120 shows so far some ranging to 4 cd's per show. I'm such a geek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One Symbol Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 A challenge to all those collectors out there. If you want to make someones day and if you are able to make copies. How about sending one to a member of this forum, gratis? I did and damn I feel good! I've shipped about three so far, two locally and one as far away as Seattle Washington USA, they know who they are. It cost me about $20.00 for the discs, packaging and postage, best money I ever spent. Hey somebody originally sent them to me so share the wealth brothers and sisters! Do it, it's good for the soul! A good post, there. I'm a collector of pressed Zep silver CDs (Oi! Stop throwing rocks at the back there ). I guess the collecting mentality dies hard - plus I'm not the biggest fan of CD-R. As I said in an earlier post, I am coming around to the idea of downloading, but I do have a soft spot for some of those Jap productions (particularly Empress Valley & Tarantura), even if the whole thing is a bit elitist and a rich man's game now. However, I have happily made copies for free to other forums users. I'm in the UK, and have sent stuff to other forum members in the USA, canada & South America. You're right, it's good for the soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evster2012 Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 A challenge to all those collectors out there. If you want to make someones day and if you are able to make copies. How about sending one to a member of this forum, gratis? I did and damn I feel good! I've shipped about three so far, two locally and one as far away as Seattle Washington USA, they know who they are. It cost me about $20.00 for the discs, packaging and postage, best money I ever spent. Hey somebody originally sent them to me so share the wealth brothers and sisters! Do it, it's good for the soul! Hell mate, I was the boots moderator on another forum for a time! I must have burned a thousand cds, gratis of course, for friends during that time! Hell, I've got a bag of probably 100 shows I haven't even got to yet! And no people, please don't PM me for any more of them. I'm retired. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Bootlegs aren't bad for those of us who never got the chance to see them live...and don't want just two DVDs to see them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrbjorn Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Hell mate, I was the boots moderator on another forum for a time! I must have burned a thousand cds, gratis of course, for friends during that time! Hell, I've got a bag of probably 100 shows I haven't even got to yet! And no people, please don't PM me for any more of them. I'm retired. Sorry. Ah yes, and very good you were too. Obviously now that you are retired you wouldn't be interested in the Empress Valley Complete BBC Sessions Set? Not that I have it, so don't PM me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3hrsoflunacy Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 A challenge to all those collectors out there. If you want to make someones day and if you are able to make copies. How about sending one to a member of this forum, gratis? I did and damn I feel good! I've shipped about three so far, two locally and one as far away as Seattle Washington USA, they know who they are. It cost me about $20.00 for the discs, packaging and postage, best money I ever spent. Hey somebody originally sent them to me so share the wealth brothers and sisters! Do it, it's good for the soul! Reggie, you know you are right. Sharing is caring. I will send 1 boot for the 1st 5 people that pm me. Maybe next month I'll do another 5. Here is my list: My List Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Reggie, you know you are right. Sharing is caring. I will send 1 boot for the 1st 5 people that pm me. Maybe next month I'll do another 5. Here is my list: My List 3HOL, that's what I'm talking about! Cheers, Champ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdh Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Lets see.....Page rips off the old black bluesmans and makes a ton of money but someone gets pissed because bootleggers want to release the music that Page played that he ripped off. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audacity Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 It's so insignificant in the scheme of sales anyway. The bootleg manufacturers make 300, 500 maybe 1,000 total copies of each bootleg. That's not even pennies in the piggy bank of sales compared to even the least selling legitimately released cd or dvd by Led Zeppelin. It's all to do over nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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