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I'm so sick of bootlegs...but why doesnt -led zep release more live stuff? their not gonna...even plant only had several live tracks on his -ninelives box set. Why not more live material, so many great shows...you'd think it would be a great thing to release more live material.

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With the re release of -tsrts movie, i could understand the soundtrack...it'll probably be a very, very slow release of material from here on out. But being that -page,jones and jason are playing...it just seems strange that there wasnt more material released.

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Hi All,

I've always thought that the Bands like Led Zeppelin were there own worst enemies when it comes to bootlegs anyway. They create this great interest in themselves and make there fans hungry for more, then fail miserably to deliver the goods. I mean in Live albums not Studio ones.

I also think that Mr Page should also look at the amount of material he "borrowed" from other artist and never credited them with their share of the royalties, to me that is no different to bootlegging.

Check out the " Thieving Magpies" site to see what I mean.

Regards, Danny

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Jimmy is a perfectionist and doesn't want the audience stuff or the non multitracked soundboards released. But there are some shows Zeppelin should just release, but they probably won't. If Zeppelin did start releasing boots they would probably make more money than anyone even the Beatles or Elvis do.

Edited by NickZepp
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I agree wholeheartedly that people should freely distribute as many recorded shows as possible and that the crime is in selling these recordings.

Let`s bootleg the bootleggers!

This may be one good reason for Zeppelin themselves to house some of these types of things on their site just like the new Youtube video stuff.

...as an aside their paranoia over bootlegs in the past has hurt them as much as the actual bootlegging did as they destroyed video and audio recordings back in the seventies that I bet they wish existed now.....I know I certainly wish they were around now....

"bootleg the bootleggers!" That's funny. when pink floyd released pulse DVD they actually had a special menu such as that..ripped off the bootleggers (decent quality!) and added it to their official release..

back in the 70's, 80's and 90's..BEFORE file sharing..bootlegs was a way for record shops and people to make $$$..but Jimmy has to realize..now Zep can put out some kick ass music and make $$$! Even if he puts out a whole box set of live rarities (from '69 Train to '80 Money) like he did the DVD, the people who already have the stuff and the ones who don't will still BUY the music..because we so respect Zep and the music. I'd rather have the official copy than a copy.

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Jimmy is a perfectionist and doesn't want the audience stuff or the non multitracked soundboards released. But there are some shows Zeppelin should just release, but they probably won't. If Zeppelin did start releasing boots they would probably make more money than anyone even the Beatles or Elvis do.

*sigh* Damn I remember buying the BBC Sessions in '97 when it was first released..and the first time i popped it in my CD player I loved the music..but thought something was wrong with my copy..It didn't sound anything like the studio albums or even TSRTS, which is all we had until this point. But the second time i listened to it..the more i liked it because it was very raw and powerful. The dynamics are not perfect but who cares? It's good sound quality and very enjoyable over and over again. The radio stations played "The Girl I Love" over and over again to the point that I was like hey wait a min..that's the beginning of moby dick! Very nostaligic.

But Jimmy is too much of a perfectionist! I can see his point of not wanting to release BAD sound quality (like my step-dad Blimp LP Live on Blueberry Hill - which he still has - I can see why he never bought another bootleg again!) recordings, but I'm cool with a 3rd DVD with 2.0 Stereo from '77. Or even live songs from diff. songs..perhaps '69 on 1 disc, '70, 72 bombay, etc. etc..If it's LISTEN ABLE ala BBC than so be it..why cheat the fans on here Jimmy?

HHmmm..wasn't this post for Why Bootlegs are Bad..Ooops...wrong one my BAD...If Bootlegs were so bad then we weren't know half of what the Zep is hiding!

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But Jimmy is too much of a perfectionist! I can see his point of not wanting to release BAD sound quality (like my step-dad Blimp LP Live on Blueberry Hill - which he still has - I can see why he never bought another bootleg again!) recordings, but I'm cool with a 3rd DVD with 2.0 Stereo from '77. Or even live songs from diff. songs..perhaps '69 on 1 disc, '70, 72 bombay, etc. etc..If it's LISTEN ABLE ala BBC than so be it..why cheat the fans on here Jimmy?

I'm not convinced Jimmy is a perfectionist at all, if he was there would be even less released than already. He certainly has high standards, and while this adversely effects the number of official releases, it means that when something official is released, you automatically know it will be good. That is a rare gift.

The reason that many shows won't be officially released is not even about the sound quality you may be getting on your bootlegs. The key is whether the show was multi-track recorded or not. If all Jimmy has is a stereo FOH soundboard/monitor recording, there is very little he can do to increase the sound quality. Sure, it can be mastered and have a little reverb added to take out the dryness, but if the guitar is a little too loud in parts, or Plant's vocals a little quiet or whatever, there is nothing he can do about it. For a soundboard to be releasable it would have to be VERY good in it's original form.

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I'm not convinced Jimmy is a perfectionist at all, if he was there would be even less released than already. He certainly has high standards, and while this adversely effects the number of official releases, it means that when something official is released, you automatically know it will be good. That is a rare gift.

The reason that many shows won't be officially released is not even about the sound quality you may be getting on your bootlegs. The key is whether the show was multi-track recorded or not. If all Jimmy has is a stereo FOH soundboard/monitor recording, there is very little he can do to increase the sound quality. Sure, it can be mastered and have a little reverb added to take out the dryness, but if the guitar is a little too loud in parts, or Plant's vocals a little quiet or whatever, there is nothing he can do about it. For a soundboard to be releasable it would have to be VERY good in it's original form.

That's true. I noticed the other day though driving home that the "studio track" Baby Come On Home is not 100% studio. Plant's voice seems to crackle just a tiny bit when he reaches his first high note, but nothing to call it trash. You can tell it's been cleaned up.

This is the thing..To put out a box set with the best SB recordings available..IMO..is not too much to ask..considering how long it's been since any "new" music. No one bitched about Travelling Riverside Blues and White summer being of lesser sound quality when released on the original 4 disc Box Set.

Sitting and thinking from 4'27'69 is very good..I love it because the guitar seems loud and plant sings, then it's in the background..once it's just music the loudness picks back up..very unique!

I Gotta Move from the pre-FM '69 is great.

Soundboard from '80..Train Kept A Rollin' (So rocking!) and Money..great stuff..I'm in love with Zep all over again..

'07 Reunion..very good.

These few examples are not perfect, but I feel very a waste to be left in the can. Friends from '72 was decent. I know it's hard but I feel like they're leaving out some very good gems. I'm sure they would make some $ putting them out just as singles, but a good box set or EP would be good..as long as it's good sound quality in its original form. Def. a bad bootleg will turn people off from an artist. I think that's Jimmy's point. He doesn't want to put anything out that's BAD. And the rest of the band also.

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This is the thing..To put out a box set with the best SB recordings available..IMO..is not too much to ask..considering how long it's been since any "new" music. No one bitched about Travelling Riverside Blues and White summer being of lesser sound quality when released on the original 4 disc Box Set.

Sitting and thinking from 4'27'69 is very good..I love it because the guitar seems loud and plant sings, then it's in the background..once it's just music the loudness picks back up..very unique!

I Gotta Move from the pre-FM '69 is great.

Soundboard from '80..Train Kept A Rollin' (So rocking!) and Money..great stuff..I'm in love with Zep all over again..

'07 Reunion..very good.

There might be copyright issues with releasing officially a bootleg recording. While it was an unauthorised recording to begin with, there could be claims to percentages of sales by tapers and distributors of bootlegs too. Hmmm

The 02 was multi-tracked and if there is no tour or other activity from the band, I think is a likely DVD release, if not CD as well.

It's also unfortunate that the tapes stolen from Jimmy havn't showed up again. These tapes could have been the key to more official releases, as while there are copies of those tapes around, they are not in master condition and have been mixed down to stereo/mono in some cases.

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There might be copyright issues with releasing officially a bootleg recording. While it was an unauthorised recording to begin with, there could be claims to percentages of sales by tapers and distributors of bootlegs too. Hmmm

The 02 was multi-tracked and if there is no tour or other activity from the band, I think is a likely DVD release, if not CD as well.

It's also unfortunate that the tapes stolen from Jimmy havn't showed up again. These tapes could have been the key to more official releases, as while there are copies of those tapes around, they are not in master condition and have been mixed down to stereo/mono in some cases.

By default all bootlegs are "Intellectual Property" belonging to the band and its composers / writers.

In most cases they are recorded in concert without the bands knowledge of whom are

recording them whether internally or externally or, stolen.

In a court of law it would not be hard to prove it was actually the band playing,

bootleggers even credit the band and admit they are unauthorised recordings.

As for whinging about the "cost to produce the boots", bootleggers should remember that business legal or otherwise is all about taking risks.

The risk you take is getting caught for piracy and not beng able to sell them.

I read somewhere on here someone had a "very rare" boot that was worth $500.

Well anyone here who would spend that kind of money deserves what they get, good or bad.

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By default all bootlegs are "Intellectual Property" belonging to the band and its composers / writers.

That's not true, by 'default' an intellectual property resides with it's author unless specifically and expressly transfered (by agreement or court order).

If I go to a concert and take a photo, I own the copyright on that photo. If I go to a concert and record the audio, whether unauthorised or not, I still own that recording. A musician would have to take me to court and sue me if they wanted control over the recording (ie an injunction to prevent me from selling it) but that does not mean they could then take control of the recording and sell it for themselves.

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That's not true, by 'default' an intellectual property resides with it's author unless specifically and expressly transfered (by agreement or court order).

If I go to a concert and take a photo, I own the copyright on that photo. If I go to a concert and record the audio, whether unauthorised or not, I still own that recording. A musician would have to take me to court and sue me if they wanted control over the recording (ie an injunction to prevent me from selling it) but that does not mean they could then take control of the recording and sell it for themselves.

We're not talking about photos but recorded music stolen and sold for profit.

No offence but I doubt there would be much of a market for your photos.

There may be if you recorded the performances to sell.

Performance is part of a professional musicians copyright just as the original being recorded.

Consult legal advice.

Do you know anything about copyright law?

Next time you watch a video read what constitutes international copy infringement, it applies to ALL piracy including CD's.

A good lawyer would crush a bootlegger because the bootlegger can't prove ownership of the music and if he admits he was the one who made the recording he is saying he is guilty of audio / video piracy.

Ask the bloke who took on Jimmy Page (or vice versa), see what he has to say about it.

Any one without counsel who represents themselves in court has a fool for a client.

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No offence but I doubt there would be much of a market for your photos.

Hey careful buddy, I'm a published photographer myself so yes, there is a market for my photos. :thanku: But I understand the point you are making B)

Performance is part of a professional musicians copyright just as the original being recorded.

Consult legal advice.

Do you know anything about copyright law?

I know enough to get by in my field. There are several copyrights in play when you are dealing with a 'bootleg' recording - the songwriter's rights, the performer's rights and the recording rights. I am suggesting that an unauthorised taper could stake a claim to their rights in regard to the recordings.

A good lawyer would crush a bootlegger because the bootlegger can't prove ownership of the music and if he admits he was the one who made the recording he is saying he is guilty of audio / video piracy.

I am not suggesting that a bootlegger would have any leg (get it???) to stand on when it came to being able to sell their recordings. All I am suggesting is that it would not be so simple as for an artist (Jimmy Page) to simply seize and subsequently distribute a fan's recording. I'm not saying he couldn't go through the courts to have legal ownership and of all rights transferred to him, all I am saying is, I don't think it would be so simple as for him to take an existing recording and re-packaged it without legal wrangling.

The worst case scenario for Zeppelin would be that they release a bootleg recording officially and they get sued by the taper, leading to injunctions, stock being pulled (see the recent TSRTS legal issues). I have no doubt that Zeppelin would win, but in the mean time it could get messy.

Edited by Cactus
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My problem with the bootlegs besides the obvious shitty audio quality, is that Jimmy spoke of a lot of his recordings being stolen from him while going through his divorce. If he had been able to keep the original tapes, we could all be listening and possibly watching in glorious 5.1 surround sound. They would also be much easier to access and wouldn't cost so much. So thanks a lot to all the assholes trying to make a quick buck.

This was Mountainhopper's post to get this ball rolling,it has many points to ponder,most of them unqualified,sorry Mountainhopper but your argument has large holes.The previous posts prove that.Bootlegging has long been said to be "By the fans,for the fans",legal arguments aside,bootlegging will continue,usually for the postcode price.

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Hey careful buddy, I'm a published photographer myself so yes, there is a market for my photos. :thanku: But I understand the point you are making B)

I know enough to get by in my field. There are several copyrights in play when you are dealing with a 'bootleg' recording - the songwriter's rights, the performer's rights and the recording rights. I am suggesting that an unauthorised taper could stake a claim to their rights in regard to the recordings.

I am not suggesting that a bootlegger would have any leg (get it???) to stand on when it came to being able to sell their recordings. All I am suggesting is that it would not be so simple as for an artist (Jimmy Page) to simply seize and subsequently distribute a fan's recording. I'm not saying he couldn't go through the courts to have legal ownership and of all rights transferred to him, all I am saying is, I don't think it would be so simple as for him to take an existing recording and re-packaged it without legal wrangling.

The worst case scenario for Zeppelin would be that they release a bootleg recording officially and they get sued by the taper, leading to injunctions, stock being pulled (see the recent TSRTS legal issues). I have no doubt that Zeppelin would win, but in the mean time it could get messy.

Photographer eh?

What have you published?

Well you would certainly be upset with someone who photographed your photographs and sold them for profit and dudded you out of your rightful compensation.

You are dead right, it never is easy or tidy when attorneys are involved.

Is the collective noun for a group of lawyers; a brothel of solicitors?

Conflict resolution is way down on their priorities, it wouldn't pay if they all agreed from the outset.

The point is bootlegging has been around for a long time and only in recent years (much to the chagrin of bootleggers and the delight of the legal fraternity), that the problem of piracy is being addressed so agressively.

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I read somewhere on here someone had a "very rare" boot that was worth $500.

Well anyone here who would spend that kind of money deserves what they get, good or bad.

In reading, it appears you're arguing the opposite of anyone deserving a bootleg, high priced or not.

So the deserving are only the ones who spend large amounts of cash?

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In reading, it appears you're arguing the opposite of anyone deserving a bootleg, high priced or not.

So the deserving are only the ones who spend large amounts of cash?

On the contrary, My point was I don't believe any bootleg is worth $500 and (the clause found in any purchasing contract from the Latin), Caveat Emptor, Let The Buyer Beware!

Here's the rub.

The very people who buy them are the real punters who appreciate the output of the band and conversely sold to them by those who are mostly motivated by money.

An official limited edition gold CD or DVD would certainly not cost any more, yet would be more apt.

In a perfect world they should be distributed free to the fans, thus thwarting the suspect bootleggers who simply do it for profit and not for the music.

They're FREE if you know where to look.

I've shared and have had members of this forum share with me, the trading of unofficial recordings and except for a couple of vinyl and one CD bootleg purchased many years ago, I haven't been charged for them or accepted payment.

Heck we all pay for the discs and postage ourselves.

I've said it before "it's good for the soul".

The anticipation waiting for the parcel to arrive and the excitement it brings when you put it in the player for the first time.

The anxious moments until you receive confirmation that the item you sent was delivered in good condition and then discussing the show and how this or that was played, etc, etc.

What a buzz.

Just like Christmas.

What goes around comes around, in this instance good karma.

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Hahaha, this is hilarious. Unfortunately, this forum has turned into the stupidest forum I've ever joined. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Haven't seen you here in awhile, how are you?

Anyway, it has. No one is here, I heard there's another forum, for the "elite". Don't know if it's true though, just the rumour. When people are here a lot of arguing goes on.

Edited by lzfan715
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Haven't seen you here in awhile, how are you?

Anyway, it has. No one is here, I heard there's another forum, for the "elite". Don't know if it's true though, just the rumour. When people are here a lot of arguing goes on.

Can't be true, otherwise I would have been invited. lol

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