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   On 5/14/2008 at 7:25 AM,  Mattmc1973 said: 

I think it's one of Jimmy's best all-time riffs, and has a great solo. I always thought it was a great song, one of the best on LZII, and was surprised to learn the band didn't like it. Weird...

On 11/2/2019 at 11:40 PM, z1inspector said:

No disrespect and I know this is an old thread but this wasn't Jimmy's RIFF this was brought to the band by John Paul Jones's, Heartbreaker as well! However I believe Jimmy had something to do with the lyrics!   

Well how can this be, since JPJ is not even credited as a writer on LLM? Yes, Black Dog is John Paul Jones's riff, but Heartbreaker? Where did you get that from? 

I remember reading somewhere that Living Loving Maid is indeed maybe the only song where Jimmy contributed most of the lyrics, if not all.

Edited by Sandey
Addition of previous quote

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3 hours ago, Sandey said:
   On 5/14/2008 at 7:25 AM,  Mattmc1973 said: 

I think it's one of Jimmy's best all-time riffs, and has a great solo. I always thought it was a great song, one of the best on LZII, and was surprised to learn the band didn't like it. Weird...

Well how can this be, since JPJ is not even credited as a writer on LLM? Yes, Black Dog is John Paul Jones's riff, but Heartbreaker? Where did you get that from? 

I remember reading somewhere that Living Loving Maid is indeed maybe the only song where Jimmy contributed most of the lyrics, if not all.

IDK  that  he wasn't  credited for it but that's not so strange to me when it comes to Zep and song credits it's messed up all over the board! . JPJ was not credited for a lot of his creative input in Zep! I must say I still have to stand behind what I stated above somewhere by that I am still pretty sure jpj came up with that riff , I thought somewhere I read John Paul Jones said it . I was quite surprised myself to learn this at the time!. Well we really got to get to the bottom of this one don't we!

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I think JPJ was kinda ripped off on not getting credits on some songs. I always thought he should have been given credit for writing the mellotron part on the Rain Song.

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14 hours ago, EthanG said:

I think JPJ was kinda ripped off on not getting credits on some songs. I always thought he should have been given credit for writing the mellotron part on the Rain Song.

Yep, just like Mick Ronson. Bowie would have been a flash in the pan without Ronson, just as Zep would have been nothing without Jones.

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21 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Yep, just like Mick Ronson. Bowie would have been a flash in the pan without Ronson, just as Zep would have been nothing without Jones.

I would extend that to Mick Taylor as well. Half of the Stones' best songs from their most iconic era were carried by him yet he had one solo writing credit in the entire span. It was a disgrace.

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On 11/9/2019 at 7:57 AM, June72 said:

I would extend that to Mick Taylor as well. Half of the Stones' best songs from their most iconic era were carried by him yet he had one solo writing credit in the entire span. It was a disgrace.

Completely agree. The Stones have been shite since he left 

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On 11/8/2019 at 4:57 PM, June72 said:

I would extend that to Mick Taylor as well. Half of the Stones' best songs from their most iconic era were carried by him yet he had one solo writing credit in the entire span. It was a disgrace.

Yep, many of these "artists" are more inclined to be shrewd business people first, and musicians / writers second. Take, the Beatles. Yoko always gets the bum rap for breaking up the Beatles but that honor falls at the feet on one person Sir Paul, Mr. Control Freak. McCartney kept refusing Harrison's songs for the albums so he could place his songs and reap the lions share of the royalties. Did the same thing with the more experimental tunes Lennon wanted to do. Turned into the McCartney Band by the time of Let it Be. Then there are the Eagles, Don & Glen, nothing more to say there. The good thing for us as listeners is in most instances, the "second bananas" really care about the music first and foremost, are "get along" types, and thus are happy they are helping to create great music, credit or not. This is why Lennon said what he said about Ringo vs. Pete Best, "Pete was a better drummer, Ringo was a better Beatle."

Sometimes the biggest bands and musicians are just that not because of amazing songs, but because of excellent business acumen at the cost of everything else. Being a good business-person is obviously advantageous, but doing so at the expense of everything else is just sad.

Yes, I am talking to you Gene Simmons.

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On 11/8/2019 at 11:30 AM, PeaceFrogYum said:

Yep, just like Mick Ronson. Bowie would have been a flash in the pan without Ronson, just as Zep would have been nothing without Jones.

This is just as ridiculous as Keith Relf's sister saying he had plucked Jimmy Page from obscurity, or others insisting that Robert Plant would have amounted to nothing had he not joined Led Zeppelin. It's impossible to know how a JPJ-less Led Zeppelin would have evolved but amounting to "nothing" seems a stretch. 

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23 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

This is just as ridiculous as Keith Relf's sister saying he had plucked Jimmy Page from obscurity, or others insisting that Robert Plant would have amounted to nothing had he not joined Led Zeppelin. It's impossible to know how a JPJ-less Led Zeppelin would have evolved but amounting to "nothing" seems a stretch. 

 Zeppelin's own collective statement from December of 1980 proves, or at least alludes to your statement being wrong on a few levels. Zep had it right, it was the chemistry between four musicians, replace any and the chemistry would be off, it would not be Zeppelin.

Of course Relf's sisters statement is silly because Page was quite successful as a studio musician before hand and likely would have found another vehicle if he had not joined the Yarbirds. The level of Page's success through such a divergence can never be ascertained.

My point is these groups, with these musicians. You remove JPJ from the picture and the whole structure of Zep changes. Black Dog and several other songs would not even exist, or if they did would be radically different to the point where they would be completely different songs. Of course this different version of Zep could have been as successful, but it would have been different.

So my saying Zep would be "nothing" without Jones is both accurate and in-accurate. They would have been a completely different band.

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23 minutes ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

They would have been a completely different band.

Well, no shit in the same way that if my Aunt had nuts she'd be my Uncle.

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3 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

Well, no shit in the same way that if my Aunt had nuts she'd be my Uncle.

No counterpoint so, you just post something juvenile. You are such a wordsmith Steve, a regular Kurt Vonnegut.

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Just now, PeaceFrogYum said:

No counterpoint so, you just post something juvenile. You are such a wordsmith Steve, a regular Kurt Vonnegut.

YOU said they would have amounted to NOTHING without JPJ. Then you went into some extended monologue to rationalize it.

Page, Plant, Bonham, McCarty would have amounted to nothing? Give me a break.

 

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2 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

YOU said they would have amounted to NOTHING without JPJ. Then you went into some extended monologue to rationalize it.

Page, Plant, Bonham, McCarty would have amounted to nothing? Give me a break.

 

Yes, that group would have amounted to nothing because a band with two drummers and no bass player would suck.

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1 hour ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Yes, that group would have amounted to nothing because a band with two drummers and no bass player would suck.

Ok, I'll spot you JPJ, Plant...and McCarty. :hysterical:

 

Edited by SteveAJones

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On 11/10/2019 at 12:37 PM, SteveAJones said:

Well, no shit in the same way that if my Aunt had nuts she'd be my Uncle.

bah ha haha haha haaha!!   too funny Steve that's awesome!! 😅

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Sir Paul could hardly be described as an "average" bass player...and his song writing is also beyond dispute.

 

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You are welcome.  I thought it showcased the brilliance of Sir Paul as a musician.  I can't "imagine" playing that intricate bass line and singing harmony at the same time like that.  Just a stellar performance.  

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So I had heard an interesting story as to why Page hated the song, I don't know if it's true and I forgot where exactly I heard/read about it, but apparently when the bulk of II was finished, they were still a little short and needed one more song to hit the length they needed for a full album. So Jimmy put together LLM pretty quickly as some filler to reach the required length, but always hated it because it wasn't something he originally planned on doing.

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On 11/10/2019 at 1:07 PM, PeaceFrogYum said:

Yes, that group would have amounted to nothing because a band with two drummers and no bass player would suck.

HOW are you coming up with two drummers and no bass player? Who's the other drummer? Are you confusing Paul with Ringo? Am I missing something

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3 hours ago, z1inspector said:

HOW are you coming up with two drummers and no bass player? Who's the other drummer? Are you confusing Paul with Ringo? Am I missing something

Sir Paul plays a lot of instruments and actually played drums on several Beatles tunes including "Back in the U.S.S.R".

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On 11/14/2019 at 3:21 AM, z1inspector said:

HOW are you coming up with two drummers and no bass player? Who's the other drummer? Are you confusing Paul with Ringo? Am I missing something

No, you need to learn to read buddy. Steve accidentally said McCarty, not McCartney, read his post again. I was simply taking the piss due to his mistake as Jim McCarty was the drummer for the Yardbirds thus two drummers and NO bass player.

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On 11/12/2019 at 3:53 PM, Stryder1978 said:

Sir Paul could hardly be described as an "average" bass player...and his song writing is also beyond dispute.

 

Backing track is too fast.

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On 11/14/2019 at 6:10 PM, Stryder1978 said:

Sir Paul plays a lot of instruments and actually played drums on several Beatles tunes including "Back in the U.S.S.R".

Doesn't he also play drums on a couple of Steve Miller tracks IIRC? 

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On 11/14/2019 at 8:40 AM, Stryder1978 said:

Sir Paul plays a lot of instruments and actually played drums on several Beatles tunes including "Back in the U.S.S.R".

 

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