mos6507 Posted May 24, 2008 Share Posted May 24, 2008 This is about national preservation, and the USA needs to do whatever it has to do in order to sustain our way of living. Trust me, if we give an inch, the results won't be us "changing how much we drive". It will be far beyond that. Are you implying that we should launch WWIII so we can fill our Hummers? Are you nuts? US domestic oil production peaked in 1970. If we can't make enough of our own oil (and believe me, ANWR and the tar sands are not enough) then we have to OUTBID the Chinese and the Indians for imports. Global oil production has been largely flat for the last 3 years straight. It may never go much higher. Mexican and North Sea oil fields are in terminal decline. Shale and tar sands produce a very small stream of oil at great cost. So global supply will stay flat and then decline while demand will continue to rise as long as population increases and the 3rd world gets richer. That's a waning non-renewable commodity in the free market for you. Don't like the price at the pump? Buy a Prius or shut up. Hanging the oil executives or invading Venezuela and Saudi Arabia won't put any more oil in the ground than millions of years of fossilization already provided. Even Bush said we have to get off oil. That should tell you something. Infinite growth in a finite world can't happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRUNK Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 Are you implying that we should launch WWIII so we can fill our Hummers? Are you nuts? US domestic oil production peaked in 1970. If we can't make enough of our own oil (and believe me, ANWR and the tar sands are not enough) then we have to OUTBID the Chinese and the Indians for imports. Global oil production has been largely flat for the last 3 years straight. It may never go much higher. Mexican and North Sea oil fields are in terminal decline. Shale and tar sands produce a very small stream of oil at great cost. So global supply will stay flat and then decline while demand will continue to rise as long as population increases and the 3rd world gets richer. That's a waning non-renewable commodity in the free market for you. Don't like the price at the pump? Buy a Prius or shut up. Hanging the oil executives or invading Venezuela and Saudi Arabia won't put any more oil in the ground than millions of years of fossilization already provided. Even Bush said we have to get off oil. That should tell you something. Infinite growth in a finite world can't happen. Don't be fooled. "Peak oil" is a bunch of BS. Go back and look at the words and interviews of so many "experts" over the last century. They have been predicting "peak oil" since the beginning. We are outbidding our competitors, but not because we absolutely need to, but in order to take away enough from them that they don't advance as fast as they would have. We'll pay in order to slow the likes of China down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstickbonzo Posted May 25, 2008 Share Posted May 25, 2008 As I said in the Global Warming thread, the companies know alternative fuel is on the table and being discussed. So they themselves are pushing their panic button causing fuel prices for the US consumer to skyrocket. Meanwhile, they are all collecting millions for retirement because they know the Oil Industry's bubble is gonna burst within the next few decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mos6507 Posted May 26, 2008 Share Posted May 26, 2008 Don't be fooled. "Peak oil" is a bunch of BS. Why, because you say so? Hubbert predicted the US peak and it happened on schedule. The decline of localized oil fields is a fact. The US, North Sea, and now Mexico. These declines are starting to add up. Saudi Arabia is no longer able to play the world's swing producer. It's producing as much as good stewardship of those fields allow. Where is all this oil going to come from? You really don't want to get started because the facts are numerous on this topic and I can tell you haven't done your research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamsIllneversee Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Heard on news tonight it may be $4.50 a gallon in a week. Ouch. One dude thinks the answer is diesel engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledbaby Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I think we will be phasing out gas powered cars entirely in 10 years. Trucks/planes and such are an entirely different story. Electric car prices will match the cost of operating a gas powered car and go beyond it. Storage cells will be able to store better and be way more efficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Oh man, I've had countless discussions about this lately. In Boise, the gas has been over $4 a gallon for a few weeks now. I drove by the "cheap" places today, and the gas is $4.07 a gallon! I bought my 1997 Honda Accord (30-35 mpg) in 2005. When I bought the car, I spent about $25 to fill up my tank every other week. I cost me over $70 last week. OVER $70! It's killing me! I don't know how other people who drive more are making ends meet! I have owned my car for more than three years, and I've only put 20K miles on it. I work in a grocery store, and I swear, the grocery business is greatly taking advantage of this inflation thing. I used to be able to buy a nice, premium loaf of specialty wheat bread for a bout $2.00. NOW, I can't buy a small, little store-brand loaf of wheat bread for under $4. I'm serious. I did get a whopping $0.12 cost of living increase (per hour). Whoopee. Talk about NOT keeping up with the actual cost of living increases... ...and yes, the oil companies are making a killing off us...AND yes, I'd buy an electric car for daily use if there was one available, and YES, I'd ride the bus if it actually made its route more than once an hour. (yes, we have a PATHETIC public transportation system in Idaho...) BTW--I'm talking CHEAP gas...out gas is like !0% ethanol in Idaho, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3hrsoflunacy Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 $4.47 down the street at Chevron for 87 unleaded. If I look hard it's around $4.40 but I gotta drive a while, so it's not worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Zeppnile Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Oh man, I've had countless discussions about this lately. In Boise, the gas has been over $4 a gallon for a few weeks now. I drove by the "cheap" places today, and the gas is $4.07 a gallon! I bought my 1997 Honda Accord (30-35 mph) in 2005. When I bought the car, I spent about $25 to fill up my tank every other week. I cost me over $70 last week. OVER $70! It's killing me! I don't know how other people who drive more are making ends meet! I have owned my car for more than three years, and I've only put 20K miles on it. I work in a grocery store, and I swear, the grocery business is greatly taking advantage of this inflation thing. I used to be able to buy a nice, premium loaf of specialty wheat bread for a bout $2.00. NOW, I can't buy a small, little store-brand loaf of wheat bread for under $4. I'm serious. I did get a whopping $0.12 cost of living increase (per hour). Whoopee. Talk about NOT keeping up with the actual cost of living increases... I think if you checked historic price indexes from the last 20 years, we are still paying less for gasoline as a percentage of income than we were in 1981. Keep your tires properly inflated Keep your engine tuned up Drive 10 mph slower on the highway than you have been. Don't haul a lot of junk around in your car. Try to plan your trips better. Don't make unnecessary trips. And don't drive with the windows down thinking it saves on the A/C. Driving with the window down makes the car much less areodynamic and use MORE fuel. So just crack the window and turn on the vent if you aren't running the A/C. Many of us have been through this before. This too shall pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 lets hold up a second, we wouldn't want to do anything irrational like build refineries and start digging holes in anwar. I mean that would only bring down oil prices and let OPEC suck their own cock. WHo wold want that. well I would've thought getting off our dependency on oil would be the most rational solution... But I guess that's just wishy-washy liberal evironmentalist homosexual communist 'wacko' irrationalism, yeah? Because I mean drilling for more oil just makes much much more sense than investing in renewable energies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Keep your tires properly inflated check Keep your engine tuned up check Drive 10 mph slower on the highway than you have been. Almost NEVER drive on the highway.... (check?) Don't haul a lot of junk around in your car. check...(no junk in the trunk...) Try to plan your trips better. Don't make unnecessary trips. check (haven't been leaving the house unless I absolutely have to--even then I have been walking...) And don't drive with the windows down thinking it saves on the A/C. Driving with the window down makes the car much less areodynamic and use MORE fuel. So just crack the window and turn on the vent if you aren't running the A/C. A/C? ROFL It hasn't been over 60 in a month here! (check) Many of us have been through this before. This too shall pass. Blah...blah, blah...easy for you to say, I JUST hit the $6K mark in my yearly earnings... Really though--my yearly mileage is about 5K total, and it's STILL killing me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Blah...blah, blah...easy for you to say, I JUST hit the $6K mark in my yearly earnings... You earn $6,000 a year?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 ^so far this year, yes. I have been working like two days a week because of my schooling. I make $14 an hour--I just haven't been working at all! LOL I actually have special permission to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 ^so far this year, yes. I have been working like two days a week because of my schooling. I make $14 an hour--I just haven't been working at all! LOL I actually have special permission to work. Christ almighty, how do you survive on 6 grand a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Zeppnile Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Keep your tires properly inflated check Keep your engine tuned up check Drive 10 mph slower on the highway than you have been. Almost NEVER drive on the highway.... (check?) Don't haul a lot of junk around in your car. check...(no junk in the trunk...) Try to plan your trips better. Don't make unnecessary trips. check (haven't been leaving the house unless I absolutely have to--even then I have been walking...) And don't drive with the windows down thinking it saves on the A/C. Driving with the window down makes the car much less areodynamic and use MORE fuel. So just crack the window and turn on the vent if you aren't running the A/C. A/C? ROFL It hasn't been over 60 in a month here! (check) Many of us have been through this before. This too shall pass. Blah...blah, blah...easy for you to say, I JUST hit the $6K mark in my yearly earnings... Really though--my yearly mileage is about 5K total, and it's STILL killing me. Only five thousand miles per year! You're just being a big whiner. I put five thousand miles a year just driving in and out of the gas stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I put five thousand miles a year just driving in and out of the gas stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Gaines---I don't pay for anything but my groceries, gas and personal bills. Plus, I have some student loans, tax returns, and work study money. My (very wonderful) partner pays the household bills until I graduate in December. After that, I'm expected to contribute 1/2 of the household expenses. Del--take the bus! Oh yeah, and my farthest commute is 6.5 miles from my house. But that's only if you hit the interstate connector (business loop). It would take about four hours to get there via bus and over an hour to ride my bike (the business loop doesn't allow pedestrians or bikers...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Gaines---I don't pay for anything but my groceries, gas and personal bills. Plus, I have some student loans, tax returns, and work study money. My (very wonderful) partner pays the household bills until I graduate in December. After that, I'm expected to contribute 1/2 of the household expenses. Oh well, that's good, I'd hate to think you were trying to survive on that much a year. I'd feel compelled to send you some money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 ^You CAN send me some money... LOL Actually, now that it's summer, I'm tring really hard to work 40 hours a week--I'm working that many hours and I'm bored out of my gourd because I'm so used to being crazy busy all of the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Zeppnile Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Gaines---I don't pay for anything but my groceries, gas and personal bills. Plus, I have some student loans, tax returns, and work study money. My (very wonderful) partner pays the household bills until I graduate in December. After that, I'm expected to contribute 1/2 of the household expenses. Del--take the bus! In the meantime I hope you are contributing more of your fair share in the... kitchen. but not really the kitchen if you know what I mean. BTW, I took the bus one time in my life, but I didn't like it very much. The thing smelled like dirty diapers, sweat and nacho cheese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 BTW, I took the bus one time in my life, but I didn't like it very much. The thing smelled like dirty diapers, sweat and nacho cheese. A few years ago I used to be a bus driver, and sometimes people would get on who would STINK beyond all belief, and I'm not just talking smelly people here, but people who's clothes were soaked in 2-week-old Urine, who would get on, and you'd be trying to drive the bus but the smell was just soo bad, so horrible, that you'd end up having to kick the person off, I mean it was putrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 I had to ride the Boise city bus when I was in jr. high. It was scary. One thing I will NEVER forget is the time I got on the bus, (I rode it every day after school to get home), and this crazy cross-eyed guy who usually sat next to this woman who was about 400 lbs started babbling about some weird things. We passed a Sun Valley billboard, and even though he was sitting by himself, he said, "we should go check out Sun Valley sometime. We could have a lot of fun playing in the snow at the resort." In short, the guy scared the shit out of me. I was like 12 or 13, riding what I had dubbed "the freak show," and I was sitting there, hugging my viola case and I always put my backpack on the seat next to me. When my stop came, I calmly pulled the chain and got up to go to my tranfer site. I was scared shitless because this guy was still babbling on and on...and then he said, "well, I'll talk to you later!" As I walked away. I felt really bad. He was talking to me the entire time! I had NO clue! Poor guy. I guess we really weren't strangers--I rode that bus every day after school and he was ALWAYS on it...almost everyone on the bus at that time of day was a regular rider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainsbarre Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 In short, the guy scared the shit out of me. I was like 12 or 13, riding what I had dubbed "the freak show," and I was sitting there, hugging my viola case and I always put my backpack on the seat next to me. When my stop came, I calmly pulled the chain and got up to go to my tranfer site. I was scared shitless because this guy was still babbling on and on...and then he said, "well, I'll talk to you later!" As I walked away. I felt really bad. He was talking to me the entire time! I had NO clue! Aint that the truth! Yeah, you'd always get the freak show, and they're always regulars. I used to try to keep conversation to a minimum with them because it just encourages them and you can never get rid of them I remember I used to get this woman who used to sit in the middle of the bus, and she used to shout out random things, and it took me ages to realise she was actually talking to me We also used to get another woman who always wore rubber gloves and carry shopping bags, she used to sit and talk to her imaginary friend all the time, but she never used to bother other passengers though You also got people who were homeless and they would just ride the busses all day. When I was a bus driver, I always used to feel I was in some sort of Jack Kerouac novel...all the weird, wonderful and strange things that would happen to you in a day, the sights you'd see, the bizarre people you'd meet, but it all happened so quickly and so often that you forget most of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Ahhh... a Kerouac novel...that is a bit strange, ROFL. We get a lot of strange characters in the grocery store, too. That USED to be a whole different thread on the old board though... (remember "Manders' Crazy Customers?" it's too bad I didn't save that one before the old board was wiped out...I could have had that thread published as a book, ROFL) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledbaby Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Ahhh... a Kerouac novel...that is a bit strange, ROFL. We get a lot of strange characters in the grocery store, too. That USED to be a whole different thread on the old board though... (remember "Manders' Crazy Customers?" it's too bad I didn't save that one before the old board was wiped out...I could have had that thread published as a book, ROFL) There are electric cars nowadays. Their just not gonna cut it on long trips or speed though. Give it 10 years or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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